Headset/fork rocking back and forth, please help troubleshoot

[weisan]

Of late, it seems like I have ran into a lot of headset problems. :rolleyes:

The threaded version got resolved with the help of Texbike (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1911643&postcount=71).

And now I am having problem with another bike that is using a threadless version. Not sure what's going on, looks like all the parts are in place ...or maybe not. After everything is set up accordingly, so I thought and I took it out for a ride, the fork will rock back and forth. If I tighten up the top cap bolt too much to get rid of the play, the handlebar does not spin as smooth, can feel the drag.

This is not my first outing with installing headsets and I have referred to many online references and pictures to get to the bottom of this. But you never know, I might be missing something. I have taken a picture to show the top part of the headset which might be the problem as in missing some obscure parts.

As full disclosure, everything was working fine until I replaced the canti surly fork with another surly fork that comes with disc tabs. I did have a mini accident where I knocked off the top part of the headset on the ground and dispersed a bunch of parts on the ground which I thought I had managed to retrieve and recover. Again, but I didn't. Hopefully, the picture will show what I am missing.

[oldpotatoe]

Of late, it seems like I have ran into a lot of headset problems. :rolleyes:

The threaded version got resolved with the help of Texbike (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1911643&postcount=71).

And now I am having problem with another bike that is using a threadless version. Not sure what's going on, looks like all the parts are in place ...or maybe not. After everything is set up accordingly, so I thought and I took it out for a ride, the fork will rock back and forth. If I tighten up the top cap bolt too much to get rid of the play, the handlebar does not spin as smooth, can feel the drag.

This is not my first outing with installing headsets and I have referred to many online references and pictures to get to the bottom of this. But you never know, I might be missing something. I have taken a picture to show the top part of the headset which might be the problem as in missing some obscure parts.

As full disclosure, everything was working fine until I replaced the canti surly fork with another surly fork that comes with disc tabs. I did have a mini accident where I knocked off the top part of the headset on the ground and dispersed a bunch of parts on the ground which I thought I had managed to retrieve and recover. Again, but I didn't. Hopefully, the picture will show what I am missing.

Think the thing it your hand is out of place. The thing right above this thing should be the race for the bearings, then that thing above that, then the upper cup.

[macaroon]

Yeh, something's not right. The bearing should sit directly in the cup. Then you should have the compression ring. Then potentially another seal; although you might want to pop this into the top cap to make sure it's in properly, then fit the top cap/seal as a oner.

If it's still not right, your cups might be not quite in straight.

[dustyrider]

It looks like your thumb is touching the crown race. Anyway you can take another photo. of all the parts? Exploded diagram view...

Or maybe the part you're holding should be flipped over and on top of the bearings, under the black cap that is on top in the photo. Assuming those aren't bearings I'm seeing in the top cup of the headset.

[weisan]

Appreciate the response. Here's a blowup of the individual parts in the order they are put together starting with the cup and then the bearings...followed by the one next to it and so on and so forth...I don't know what you call them. :D

[ultraman6970]

IMO that thing goes.. bearings... seal then the compression ring that is the metallic thing and then the top cap.

Or.. bearings.. compression ring then the seal and then the top cap.

The other weird thing is that the compression ring doesnt have a cut, no idea if its designed like that or not, have a 1 1/4 headset moving around and remember that one has lose bearings like yours but the compression ring had a cut too, wonder if thats the problem you have, the cut.

[tiretrax]

Take it to Nelo's. Looks like it could use a cleaning and new grease.

[jimcav]

Appreciate the response. Here's a blowup of the individual parts in the order they are put together starting with the cup and then the bearings...followed by the one next to it and so on and so forth...I don't know what you call them. :D

since I used to have a bike with that type of headset:
in your picture left to right, swap #2 and # 3
also both usually have a "this side up" orientation, which usually is obvious as you do it

jim

[weisan]

dear pals, thanks for your kind suggestions, I have tried all the different permutations and combinations, it still doesn't work properly.


somehow the ring or the seal (second from left) is allowing the upper cup to slide around. I tried to get rid of it and just install without the seal but there's a little bit of gap between the upper cup and the compression ring. And that is true with or without the seal, so something is missing.

[weisan]

IMO that thing goes.. bearings... seal then the compression ring that is the metallic thing and then the top cap.

Or.. bearings.. compression ring then the seal and then the top cap.

The other weird thing is that the compression ring doesnt have a cut, no idea if its designed like that or not, have a 1 1/4 headset moving around and remember that one has lose bearings like yours but the compression ring had a cut too, wonder if thats the problem you have, the cut.

ultra pal, to your point, I have a compression ring that has a cut and I tried that too, seems like a good fit on top of the bearing but it's still leaving a gap between the upper cup so no dice.

[cmbicycles]

IMO that thing goes.. bearings... seal then the compression ring that is the metallic thing and then the top cap.

Or.. bearings.. compression ring then the seal and then the top cap.

The other weird thing is that the compression ring doesnt have a cut, no idea if its designed like that or not, have a 1 1/4 headset moving around and remember that one has lose bearings like yours but the compression ring had a cut too, wonder if thats the problem you have, the cut.

That is the bearing race, you dont want it to have a split or you get really rough bearings. The compression rings are only for cartridge bearing headsets.

I would still agree with the order of bearings, seal then race then top cap, but try swapping the order of seal/race and see what happens. It's hard for me to tell from pictures without the parts in my hand. Sometimes there is a thin spacer that sits between the bearing race and top cap, so the top cap doesn't contact the bearing cup, just check by feel and try any thin spacer to verify, if it is smooth with a spacer between check the floor really well, I've seen some clear plastic and some metal or anywhere between. Usually only a few thousandths thick.

[weisan]

Take it to Nelo's. Looks like it could use a cleaning and new grease.

tire pal...good or bad, I AM NELO's. :D
Sorry, I would rather figure this out on my own. I don't go crying and running to my LBS at every drop of the hat.

[AJM100]

is the problem in compression? How much space between the upper spacer and the top cap? I ran into this problem in the past where I need to add another 1-2mm spacer to get it right. GLTY . . .

[ultraman6970]

I will check the one I have moving around tonite...

[DRZRM]

Weisan,

This exact thing happened to me with a Cane Creek 40 headset on my Ibis Ripley. It was either too lose (shifting back and forth) or too tight (indexed turning) and I was doing everything you were doing. Switching stuff around, reinstalling again and again, I was terrified that I had mangled my new to me frame/fork when I installed the race.

As it turned out, the cartridge bearings on the lower race, the bearings that sat on the fork race had come loose/popped out and was shifting around. It was not individual bearings that were loose, the whole cartridge was out of whack, or the bearings had shifted in the cartridge. A very good mechanic at a local shop figured it out, it took him a while. I was there when he figured it out, and I watched him fix it (cartridge press) but I can't really tell you exactly what the issue was. I just know it was an easy fix for him once he diagnosed it, and that it has worked perfectly since.

If you can't find a problem above the headtube, look at the bearings at the bottom.