Landshark quandary

[donevwil]

I've got a '90 Landshark (Oversize Tange Prestige with Kestrel fork pic below), my first custom frameset. I could argue that it's the best frameset I've ever ridden, but it's probably second to my Potts. The problem is my 25 year older body can no longer tolerate the extreme handlebar drop of my youth and the fork fits, at best, a 26mm tire (I no longer ride anything smaller than a 28). It hasn't been built up in 7-8 years or ridden much in 12. The only reasons I've hung on to it all this time are the sentimental value and the fact that the very long, low geometry (58 x 62 c-c) probably doesn't have much value on the used market.

It's time to move on and I'm interested in the "collective" wisdom, what would you do:

1. Put it up for sale. If, and that's a big IF, I find an interested party who fits this geo what's the best I'll see for a 25 year old steel road bike with a 1" Kestrel fork, maybe $400-$500 on a very good day?

2. Trade it in on a new Landshark carbon. Last I spoke with John Slawta (NAHBS 2012 in Sacto) he was still taking in his old steel framesets for a $1000 credit on one of his new carbon fiber rigs. If that program still exists that would put a new, custom CF frameset in at less than Ti, but a bit more than steel category. Granted saving $3500+ to move forward with a new Landshark has it's own issues, but at least I can consider the frame money in the bank.

3. Wall art. Maybe I build it again someday for a fair weather, Sunday show bike (25s and all) and, maybe, someday I spring for a Winter stem so it doesn't look quite as ghastly getting the bars up where I need them.

I'm leaning toward #2, but the thought of the frame being chopped up for scrap hurts, however, a custom carbon fiber would be out of reach at the retail price.

EDIT: I forgot that I also have a matching stem buried somewhere.

1697914531

[Chris]

2. Definitely 2.

[R3awak3n]

1. Doesnt fit anymore, get rid of it, let someone else that will be psyched about it ride it.

You can get over $500 for that I would say, its a cool frame and seems to be in good shape

[eBAUMANN]

i would absolutely 100% NOT trade it in.

that frame is much more than a bike, its a work of art.

if you want to pass it on, i am pretty confident that youll be able to find someone here who would give it a new home, the geometry is not as weird as you might think, and that paint is phenomenal.

good luck with your decision!

[rwsaunders]

I'd try the market and see if $650-750 does the trick for you. 25 year old steel Serotta (Colorado) frames are going for $400-600 in good shape. I'd think that your Shark would command a little more based on its heritage and cult following. The market ultimately tells the truth though, right?

[PeregrineA1]

A couple of points of reference.

I bought a complete '91 with a mixed Shimano drivetrain in 2011 for $400.00. Pretty normal 52 x 52.

I sold a frame only '91 in 2015 for $375.00. 52 x 52.5.

If it were in our house, it would not be leaving.

[bicycletricycle]

would you ever use it as a flat bar style city or cafe bike?

[jtakeda]

What size is the stem?

Also keep it. Use it as a cruiser bike.

[donevwil]

1. Doesnt fit anymore, get rid of it, let someone else that will be psyched about it ride it.

You can get over $500 for that I would say, its a cool frame and seems to be in good shape

i would absolutely 100% NOT trade it in.

that frame is much more than a bike, its a work of art.

if you want to pass it on, i am pretty confident that youll be able to find someone here who would give it a new home, the geometry is not as weird as you might think, and that paint is phenomenal.

good luck with your decision!

Down deep I agree with both of you. Live on and move on, a few hundo here or there won't set my world on fire. What do I need with a CF bike anyway.

would you ever use it as a flat bar style city or cafe bike?

No, the 26mm max tire is a killer. Road quality around here is some of the Nation's worst and I'm in the mid-200#. Plus there's the short HT, extreme bar drop thing.

What size is the stem?

Also keep it. Use it as a cruiser bike.

If I remember correctly the stem is 135mm x 90deg, a Slawta-made, Salsa threadless look-a-like. I'd need to use ape hangers to get the bars up high enough to be a cruiser.

[bicycletricycle]

not sure how well off you are but the frame probably isn't loosing value at this point so just keep it, if you ever really need 500 bucks or need the room then sell it.

[donevwil]

not sure how well off you are but the frame probably isn't loosing value at this point so just keep it, if you ever really need 500 bucks or need the room then sell it.

No, $500 plus/minus isn't make or break for me and I guess, in a nutshell, your point is what I've been doing for 12 years. Why not a little longer. The real dig is that every frameset in our household is 2x framesets. My wife and I have an agreement, one for me, one for her, etc, etc...

BTW, it's your damn Chapman thread in the gallery that has me entertaining such blasphemous thoughts.

[AngryScientist]

How about sourcing a new fork and a Serotta heads up adapter to get a bit less drop on the bars and be able to ride that beauty again?

[bicycletricycle]

No, $500 plus/minus isn't make or break for me and I guess, in a nutshell, your point is what I've been doing for 12 years. Why not a little longer. The real dig is that every frameset in our household is 2x framesets. My wife and I have an agreement, one for me, one for her, etc, etc...

BTW, it's your damn Chapman thread in the gallery that has me entertaining such blasphemous thoughts.

I always use a new bike as a reason to get rid of old stuff, even if I don't really need the cash. It seems better in my stupid gorilla brain.

Sold a bunch of crap over the last few months to get ready for the incoming chapman.

So it's clear, order a fresh new chapman and sell the land shark and other extra stuff around. You'll feel great :)

[FlashUNC]

1 or 3.

Eric's able to work magic with stems, and that's a darn sight cheaper than a new Landshark custom, especially under your 1 for 1 Treaty of Versailles.

And yes, there is a market out there for these. Hell, that's in the ballpark for my frame geo, depending on some of the other numbers...

[Peter P.]

Trade it in for a carbon Landshark painted exactly like your steel Landshark!

Paying homage to the old frame, with a new frame that fits better and you'll ride more.

[cinema]

wow. that frame is super pretty. if someone in this thread likes it and offers you something for it why not let it live a second life.

that being said i like the idea of trading it in and getting a similar paint job. great way to split the sentimentality factor in half.

[eddief]

It's a normal filleted steel frame with a an imaginative paint job. Many builders can build that frame with one hand tied behind the back. Get one built and find a painter with an imagination. Done and done. Curtlo will do the build for $990 then put out a message for a paint job.

[leftsidedrive]

I've owned 3 of Slawta's bikes in my time. I sold the two road bikes and kept the track bike with asymmetrical seat stays. It's a "lifetime" bike and a collectors item. I won't be selling it in the future and I intend on giving it to my rotten ungrateful 4 year old when he becomes an adult.

Bikes were intended to be ridden. If you can't ride it anymore, sell it to someone who will appreciate it and ride it. Use the money from the sale to buy a bike that will fit you correctly for your current needs, and ride that one. When you get too old to ride that one, sell it and buy a recumbent.

[PETER REID]

I have 4 custom steel ones form John S and a Carbon one. I took my cyclo cross bike that he built for me and turned it into a great city bike with flat bars, fat bald tires and fenders and its a blast. Maybe its an option you would like to consider.

peter

[oldpotatoe]

With a longer steerer, with room for bigger tires??

[Climb01742]

What choice would give you the most pleasure riding_today?

When you bought your existing Landshark, it represented John's state of the art capabilities and your needs and body situation. And John made magic for you.

Today, your needs and body have changed, and so have John's capabilities. Why not let him make a second round of magic for you_today_that reflects where you and he are now?

Let it go. Ride in the moment.:D

[josephr]

EDIT: I forgot that I also have a matching stem buried somewhere.

1697914531

This very fact shows you're incapable of the stewardship this frame requires. You shame all of us Paceliners; you will not be getting a new Paceline stem cap (if those things ever get made). :p

[sandyrs]

Trade it in for a carbon Landshark painted exactly like your steel Landshark!

Paying homage to the old frame, with a new frame that fits better and you'll ride more.

I like this option

[rugbysecondrow]

I really enjoy Landsharks, I love the paint jobs and I would consider those frames artwork, more so than most other custom frames. Much more than a frame, IMO.

That is my opinion. If your is different, then trade it in for the $1000 and get another kick ass ride.

Cheers,

Paul

[Tin Turtle]

I bought one a few months ago as a complete bike for $900. Just an FYI. I am not a carbon guy, so trading it in wouldn't really work for me. I would sell it, or trade it for a wheelset etc. Just depends on what you want. If you like carbon its highest value is with the trade in on another Land Shark.

[soulspinner]

Life is short. Getting a new ride might get you out more, and thus be good in the long term as well.

[donevwil]

You are all awesome, I appreciate the input. All the views expressed are paths I was close to taking, but ultimately lead to years of wishy-washiness.

Trade it in for a carbon Landshark painted exactly like your steel Landshark!

Paying homage to the old frame, with a new frame that fits better and you'll ride more.
... i like the idea of trading it in and getting a similar paint job. great way to split the sentimentality factor in half.
...Today, your needs and body have changed, and so have John's capabilities. Why not let him make a second round of magic for you_today_that reflects where you and he are now?:D
I really enjoy Landsharks, I love the paint jobs and I would consider those frames artwork, more so than most other custom frames. Much more than a frame, IMO.

That is my opinion. If your is different, then trade it in for the $1000 and get another kick ass ride.

Cheers,

Paul

These posts reflect where I was and, for the most part, still am pending a discussion with John Slawta. I will let you all know where the discussion leads, but a lot of it comes down to what he does with the returned frames.

Eric's able to work magic with stems, ...
With a longer steerer, with room for bigger tires??

In the last few years this is where I've been, actually discussing a stem with Eric Estlund and contemplate a new, steel fork both painted to match. It all gains perspective, however, when I realize I'm about to spend $800-$1000 upgrading an old bike that I still won't ride much. The fact is if it doesn't run 32s, it's not likely to be in my rotation.

[donevwil]

I have 4 custom steel ones form John S and a Carbon one. I took my cyclo cross bike that he built for me and turned it into a great city bike with flat bars, fat bald tires and fenders and its a blast. Maybe its an option you would like to consider.

peter

Peter,

Would you mind PM'ing me with a quick Landshark carbon review ?

[Fishbike]

Heck -- I'll give you a carbon Landshark review.

A couple of years ago I had John build a road bike with Ultegra Di2, caliper brakes and room for 28 mm tires. I gave him my preferred geometry, he made a drawing and we were off to the races.

The frame is as good as any carbon I have ridden and I am lucky to have ridden a lot of nice ones (Look 585, Colnago C40 and C59, Calfee Luna Pro) and is as comfy as my favorite steel rides.

It is tube to tube construction; not a lightweight; it can go anywhere; is plenty stiff enough for me; tracks well; and is everything a top tier bike should be. It particularly excels on bad roads, but much of that advantage is do to the tires.

And of course it is one of a kind. For paint, I said "Fish. Have at it." It is blue, sparkly and covered in multi-colored fish. I love it!

The only issue was the seat post we chose was too long for my short saddle height -- the post hit a screw in the seat tube. So I had to have the LBS remove the battery, cut the post and then reinstall the battery. Removing the battery was a problem but the mechanic found a way with some ingenuity if I recall.

I love the bike and would not hesitate to recommend a carbon Landshark. The frames ain't cheap, but are a good competitive value given the quality, pedigree and custom paint jobs.

[Waldo]

Trade it in for a carbon Landshark painted exactly like your steel Landshark!

Paying homage to the old frame, with a new frame that fits better and you'll ride more.

A custom carbon Landshark can accommodate Grand Bois/Compass 28mm tires, but nothing fatter. Trust me.

[velomonkey]

Heck -- I'll give you a carbon Landshark review.

A couple of years ago I had John build a road bike with Ultegra Di2

We need to see pictures of such a beast.

OP, glad me and you were able to resurrect the Land Shark photo thread across the hall. You want my opinion - the only person who can get that bike besides you in someone on this forum or John - no other person is worthy. I got my shark in 92. It got stollen and someone tried to strip the paint - I got it back (long story) and John repainted it for, like, $200 or something crazy. John rocks and Land Shark rocks.

[donevwil]

Heck -- I'll give you a carbon Landshark review.

A couple of years ago I had John build a road bike with Ultegra Di2, caliper brakes and room for 28 mm tires. I gave him my preferred geometry, he made a drawing and we were off to the races.

The frame is as good as any carbon I have ridden and I am lucky to have ridden a lot of nice ones (Look 585, Colnago C40 and C59, Calfee Luna Pro) and is as comfy as my favorite steel rides.

It is tube to tube construction; not a lightweight; it can go anywhere; is plenty stiff enough for me; tracks well; and is everything a top tier bike should be. It particularly excels on bad roads, but much of that advantage is do to the tires.

And of course it is one of a kind. For paint, I said "Fish. Have at it." It is blue, sparkly and covered in multi-colored fish. I love it!

The only issue was the seat post we chose was too long for my short saddle height -- the post hit a screw in the seat tube. So I had to have the LBS remove the battery, cut the post and then reinstall the battery. Removing the battery was a problem but the mechanic found a way with some ingenuity if I recall.

I love the bike and would not hesitate to recommend a carbon Landshark. The frames ain't cheap, but are a good competitive value given the quality, pedigree and custom paint jobs.

Thank you Fish

A custom carbon Landshark can accommodate Grand Bois/Compass 28mm tires, but nothing fatter. Trust me.

That was going to be one of my big questions for John, would/does he build a CF frame with greater clearance. It seems his only limitation is the fork, so an Enve Cross Disc fork, for example, could lead to an interesting frame.

We need to see pictures of such a beast.

OP, glad me and you were able to resurrect the Land Shark photo thread across the hall. You want my opinion - the only person who can get that bike besides you in someone on this forum or John - no other person is worthy. I got my shark in 92. It got stollen and someone tried to strip the paint - I got it back (long story) and John repainted it for, like, $200 or something crazy. John rocks and Land Shark rocks.

Thanks VM, I agree.

[pdmtong]

I understand the sentimentality of keeping it. But I don't think there is a scenario where once it is gone, you sit there lamenting you want it back in the storage shed or wherever it is parked now. I'm not one to hang bike frames on a wall, and it's doing no one any good sitting around.

Selling it for $500? I get that doesn't move the needle. Those five benjamins will get pissed away in small parts or something inconsequential, a fate not worthy of that frame.

The only thing that makes sense to me is #2, let a phoenix arise from the ashes. So what if wife makes it x2...most here would love to have that problem.

I suppose if John will take your old frame and "junk it" you could ask him to cut up the tubes so you can make a wind chime out of it. What? yes, I said it. Again, I have no sentimentality for old frames. Mainly because I dont have infinite storage and I want to be able to ride what I have. I will take a modern frame any day - with the advances in metallurgy and accommodation for today's parts.

BTW Fishbike is a connoisseur who has plenty of fine machine experience.

[donevwil]

I understand the sentimentality of keeping it. But I don't think there is a scenario where once it is gone, you sit there lamenting you want it back in the storage shed or wherever it is parked now. I'm not one to hang bike frames on a wall, and it's doing no one any good sitting around.

Selling it for $500? I get that doesn't move the needle. Those five benjamins will get pissed away in small parts or something inconsequential, a fate not worthy of that frame.

The only thing that makes sense to me is #2, let a phoenix arise from the ashes. So what if wife makes it x2...most here would love to have that problem.

I suppose if John will take your old frame and "junk it" you could ask him to cut up the tubes so you can make a wind chime out of it. What? yes, I said it. Again, I have no sentimentality for old frames. Mainly because I dont have infinite storage and I want to be able to ride what I have. I will take a modern frame any day - with the advances in metallurgy and accommodation for today's parts.

BTW Fishbike is a connoisseur who has plenty of fine machine experience.

I think you've hit the nail on the head and, frighteningly, appear to know me very well. In terms of bike frame sentimentality I allow myself one, currently it's between this and an '88 custom (for a Belgian pro) Merckx Corsa that probably has greater unobtainium value.

My wife is next in line (Rando rig this year), only after that and some saving can I bring my "next" fantasy to reality. My Potts will have to do for now.

[Waldo]

Snip: That was going to be one of my big questions for John, would/does he build a CF frame with greater clearance. It seems his only limitation is the fork, so an Enve Cross Disc fork, for example, could lead to an interesting frame.


Actually, the limitation is the rear wishbone stays that John likes to use. There are carbon forks out there with clearances for tires fatter than 28.

[donevwil]

Snip:

Actually, the limitation is the rear wishbone stays that John likes to use. There are carbon forks out there with clearances for tires fatter than 28.

I guess I should certainly talk with John once more (this time in more detail) before I let this thread go much further. This whole discussion may very well be moot.

[Waldo]

Certainly, a conversation with John will answer your questions quicker than all the time we are spending posting.... :D

[Grumbs]

You are all awesome, I appreciate the input. All the views expressed are paths I was close to taking, but ultimately lead to years of wishy-washiness.






These posts reflect where I was and, for the most part, still am pending a discussion with John Slawta. I will let you all know where the discussion leads, but a lot of it comes down to what he does with the returned frames.




In the last few years this is where I've been, actually discussing a stem with Eric Estlund and contemplate a new, steel fork both painted to match. It all gains perspective, however, when I realize I'm about to spend $800-$1000 upgrading an old bike that I still won't ride much. The fact is if it doesn't run 32s, it's not likely to be in my rotation.

Tektro R559s and 650b x 32! No need for a new fork.

[donevwil]

Tektro R559s and 650b x 32! No need for a new fork.

Ah, but a new set of wheels $$.

[pdmtong]

I often wonder what will be available in 25 years that will make me look at the bikes I love TODAY and think these relics need ot be traded in or sold off, since I haven't ridden them in years.

that said, a lot of advances have happened since 1990, and a CF LS would be able to take advantage of all of them.

[bicycletricycle]

I just realized that I had the bike I rode today built 16 years ago. Still like it a lot

[oldpotatoe]

Tektro R559s and 650b x 32! No need for a new fork.

From OP-"The problem is my 25 year older body can no longer tolerate the extreme handlebar drop of my youth"

650b isn't going to fix that plus + $..wheels/brakes.

[EricEstlund]

A steel fork can likely be made that has the same a-t-c and rake, but with enough clearance for slightly larger tires, and a long enough steerer to bring your bars to a more comfortable position. A new stem could solve the fit concerns, but wouldn't (on its own) buy you more tire room.

You have a bunch of great options available between getting the older frame set up for you now or replacing it with something new and also sweet. Really it's just a matter of what moves you more personally.

[pakora]

I'm facing moving and downsizing all of my stuff and my brain is 75% of the way to not holding onto stuff I can't use right now. I'm going to be getting rid of all of my records and books and half of my bikes. Reading, music and riding is pretty much all of the things I care about. But I mostly play music through a bluetooth receiver off a computer and started getting books from the library when I ran out of room to store them. Three bikes are already earmarked for donation to a local bike coalition because even though they're good bikes I know I just won't get any real money for them compared to the hoops I'll have to jump through to sell them at any price.

Of course, I needed the impetus of moving to think about this in the first place. On the other hand, the only reason I have all of this accumulation is because I had the space for it. Space can be a bad thing, creating the enablement of sentimentality for objects you'll never think about again once they're not in front of you anymore.

Incidentally, and this is really just repeating another poster, you probably have no idea how many people would buy your frame until you actually post it - I'm another person who rides a weird size (my custom frame is 62x64) and gets tempted by things like weird long Landsharks posted here.

[donevwil]

Many great posts, all on point and appreciated. Thank you.

I took a couple hours this afternoon to clean and inspect the frameset with a fine toothed comb. It's quite a bit more battle scarred than I'd remembered. Reality ! Truth is I'd be concerned how pictures would represent the true condition of the frame if I were to sell it

Message back from John Slawta and the trade-in offer is still good.

First World Problems to be sure.

[pdmtong]

Message back from John Slawta and the trade-in offer is still good.

Of course it is still good. John, like Sherwood at Ventana, likes to keep the family together. And, of course, $1,000 to you does not cost him $1,000. That's good marketing :-)

Seriously, you opened the door. Walk through it.

The one thing no one has is enough time to ride great bikes. You will get a great bike. So get it now, not years from now.

[soulspinner]

of course it is still good. John, like sherwood at ventana, likes to keep the family together. And, of course, $1,000 to you does not cost him $1,000. That's good marketing :-)

seriously, you opened the door. Walk through it.

The one thing no one has is enough time to ride great bikes. You will get a great bike. So get it now, not years from now.

+1

[jtakeda]

Many great posts, all on point and appreciated. Thank you.

I took a couple hours this afternoon to clean and inspect the frameset with a fine toothed comb. It's quite a bit more battle scarred than I'd remembered. Reality ! Truth is I'd be concerned how pictures would represent the true condition of the frame if I were to sell it

Message back from John Slawta and the trade-in offer is still good.

First World Problems to be sure.

Any idea if the trade in is valid for cracked frames?
I've got one I got hit on and can't seem to get rid of it. It's hanging on my wall

[donevwil]

Any idea if the trade in is valid for cracked frames?
I've got one I got hit on and can't seem to get rid of it. It's hanging on my wall

John and I are playing phone tag, but I plan on speaking with him at length tomorrow. If I remember I'll ask.

[donevwil]

Update:

John remembered talking with me at 2012 NAHBS when he originally made the $1k credit offer. Credit offer will be honored and he'll even allow me to keep my steel Road Shark to sell if I wish.

That pretty much settles my original quandary yet starts another one: $1k and sale of my road shark would put a serious dent in the cost of a new, custom CF Shark.

[eippo1]

Update:

That pretty much settles my original quandary yet starts another one: $1k and sale of my road shark would put a serious dent in the cost of a new, custom CF Shark.

hmm, I don't see it in the classifieds yet. Why not? :cool:

[etu]

Update:

John remembered talking with me at 2012 NAHBS when he originally made the $1k credit offer. Credit offer will be honored and he'll even allow me to keep my steel Road Shark to sell if I wish.

That pretty much settles my original quandary yet starts another one: $1k and sale of my road shark would put a serious dent in the cost of a new, custom CF Shark.

Not surprised at all. John is a great guy, having bought 3 bikes from him, including my first custom back in 2000. Delivers on time or ahead of time. Also as I mentioned, my last bike from him was a carbon and it was a fantastic ride, only reason I did not keep it was a too tall headtube - stupid mistake on my part as I distinctly remember him asking me if I was really sure the number was correct and to remeasure the HT my other bikes, which I didn't do (under the influence?:confused:). Someone should start on a thread on dumb mistakes we've made during custom ordering process.

[pakora]

Amazing. That speaks a bunch to working with Land Shark.