Real world benefits of a full bespoke bicycle?

[dzxc]

Been having fitment issues that I'm just starting to address, went to a GURU fit and determined that my legs are relatively longer than my torso. So I need something like a 570TT and 200HT. Or, about the TT that would normally be found on a 56-58 cm bike, with the TT that would normally be found on a 60ish cm bike.

I'm looking for a new bike. Was probably going to order a Moots with the extended +1cm HT option as I'm really not excited about the Eriksen logo. But I might go Mosaic. I think the Moots would be easier to sell eventually as it would be a stock geo and have the brand recognition others lack. But the Mosaic RT1 is the only titanium bike aside from the Firefly that I am really excited about.

I have GURU fit numbers, but the fitting was only about 30 minutes of measurements and moving things around. Mosaic included in the price would be a full 1.5-2 hour RETUL fit with a power meter and the whole 3D laser shebang.

So with that explanation out of the way, how beneficial, if at all, would a fully custom bespoke frame like the Mosaic be in my personal riding comfort and handling over a stock size with the correct spacers/stem/seatpost to make it fit?

[Michael Maddox]

Personally, I find them mostly harder-to-part-with. :)

[MattTuck]

If you are able to, I'd suggest you get a bike and set it up with the new position and ride it for a while. That is certainly better than getting a bike that is not going to work for you.

Another option, if it is within your budget, would be to get an inexpensive steel or Aluminum frame from a builder, with the geometry that you want. Test it out, and then move up to Titanium in a year or two once you're confident in the position and ride quality of the bike.

PS. Not liking a logo is not a particularly good reason to eliminate a builder :rolleyes::no:

[makoti]

PS. Not liking a logo is not a particularly good reason to eliminate a builder :rolleyes::no:

Unless they are willing to give you the bike without the offending logo, I think it's a great reason. You're paying A LOT of money for something. You should like everything about it.
All that aside, real world benefits? Honestly, if you can get a stock frame to fit properly (not just "good enough"), then it's all about what you really want. DO you like the stock frame? Do you want something no one else has? Something that was made for you? That factors into it a lot. I have two customs & one that was fitted. I enjoy them all, but there is something special about the ones I had input on.

[mhespenheide]

If you are able to, I'd suggest you get a bike and set it up with the new position and ride it for a while. That is certainly better than getting a bike that is not going to work for you.

Another option, if it is within your budget, would be to get an inexpensive steel or Aluminum frame from a builder, with the geometry that you want. Test it out, and then move up to Titanium in a year or two once you're confident in the position and ride quality of the bike.

PS. Not liking a logo is not a particularly good reason to eliminate a builder :rolleyes::no:

Are you kidding? Aside from being a cheapskate, it's one of the major strikes against Della Santa and Rock Lobster, both. :help:


Kidding aside, I would certainly try a bike with the requisite top tube length and add a riser stem and/or spacers before starting on a custom frame. That said, I'd also keep an eye out for someone else's custom that might fit what you're looking for.

[mhespenheide]

I was going to suggest this one:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=178647
but it looks like it's not the numbers that you're looking for.

That said, a 570TT 200TT is not that far out of the ordinary. Keep your eyes peeled on eBay and one will show up eventually, or post a WTB here.

[pdmtong]

I would guess that the full custom would possibly better account for your weight distribution assuming you are pushing extremes withe spacers. For instance are you comparing stock with 4cm spacers against custom with slammed stem?

That said follow the advice here and mimic the position on your existing before doing anything

With your fit a full custom will have a smaller resale market.

As for the benefits of bespoke you are asking the wrong people

You don't ask alcoholics if they like booze

[tv_vt]

Or just look around for a Fierte. Maybe a 58 or maybe a 60. Sounds like their geometry is just what you're looking for. IMO that kind of geometry is fairly common these days - Spec Roubaix, Fierte, even Pegoretti with the extended headtube and Parlee XL-Tall...

if you like Eriksen, but don't like his logo, get a Hampsten! Built by Eriksen, but with Hampsten logos, and choice of matte Eriksen finish or shinier Hampco finish. But, hey, I'm biased...http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=180227

[fuzzalow]

So with that explanation out of the way, how beneficial, if at all, would a fully custom bespoke frame like the Mosaic be in my personal riding comfort and handling over a stock size with the correct spacers/stem/seatpost to make it fit?
Lots you must ask yourself:

How well do you know your own numbers, in whatever ways and parameters you define your own fit & position?
How stable is the shape and dimensions of what your contact points geometry consists of?
Are you satisfied with your own fit & position or are you still looking/seeking a better refinement? If so, how far off do you think you are from where you think you ought t be?

I am usually the outlier in these topics, so I'll say what I wanna say and get outta the way. But I feel obliged to say this because somebody might be looking for answers and my approach can help. After this then the thread can return to the regular programming.

Each bike from a different maker will usually have a slightly different frame geometry from another make and model, even if the same size frame. As such, you the rider, will achieve a slightly different balance point inside that frame's adjustment envelope to accommodate your fit & position.

You can't have a bespoke frame help you unless you know enough about what you are shooting for so that a frame builder can design a frame geometry to meet your requirements. He doesn't have to get down to the millimeter, he will work to offer an available range of adjustment as needed by the client. The rest of the way in dialing in will be through post, setback, stem & spacers. The builder can get you halfway, maybe a little more. But no builder can solve what you can't do or don't know how to do yourself. You too gotta bring something to the project to pro-actively solve your concerns - and that is your learning, knowledge and skill developed as a sport cyclist.

This is but one approach. All that matters is the results and the resultant ability for you to enjoy the sport in the way you think you should. All done in service of the ride.

Good luck with this.

[verbs4us]

After 40 years of riding one steel bike, I finally got a custom bike, at roughly 10 times the price I paid for my original bike (not computing inflation). My experience can be summed up in a few points. First, it fits so well, that I feel more efficient and when I get off the bike, no pain, no soreness. The bike just disappears under me, which was my goal. I'm pretty normal size, so not a real challenge to fit. Second, the success of the build depends on your ability to communicate your needs, and the builder's ability to translate them into geometries. My sense is that it's better to work on describing your needs, than on deciding head tube angle (say), and let the builder determine the head tube angle based on your entire gestalt. I once ordered a custom musical instrument and in that experience learned that one thing depends on 50 other things, the real art of the builder/luthier is finding the right compromises to achieve your goal. I tried to resist the temptation to discuss tubing OD and ID, for example, and trust thy builder. Find a builder you can trust and with whom you can communicate.

[Black Dog]

Well, another thing to consider. The time of year you get a fit matters. Getting a fit in the off season vs getting a fit done when you are in shape will not yield the same results. This is especially true if you are doing a dynamic fit with a power meter.

The bike should fit you best when you are at your typical riding fitness/flexibility. Your efficiency on the bike will not be the same as your riding position changes as you become more supple (flexible) and in better shape. Make sure there is room for adjusting your position to take this into account when getting a frame built.

[tumbler]

Unless they are willing to give you the bike without the offending logo, I think it's a great reason. You're paying A LOT of money for something. You should like everything about it.

+1. There are a couple top shelf builders that I would never go to simply because I can't stand the logo or the name. It's petty, but if I'm dropping that much coin on a bike, I don't want any negative thoughts when I look at it.

[apple]

This is Rock Lobster for me. And I've never heard a bad thing about them.

[parris]

Black Dog brought up a VERY good point as far as fit and time of year. I've seen a few local cyclists that have gotten various fits from "experts" that have used some of the differing high tech systems. My take away was that the person doing the fitting was buried in the numbers that the power meter and such were giving and going very much by "the book" when it came to the final results.

In my opinion it's very important to not get sucked in. Retul and other systems are only as good as the people running them. They can be and are very good tools but they're not the be all end all when it comes to bike fit.

[taylor_walker]

Eriksen built me a gravel bike in 2013 and it is a fantastic bike. They nailed the fit for me based off of my other bikes and my measurements.The quality of the welds are sublime -- I haven't seen another ti bike with better welds, including the IF, Moots, and Gurus my friends have.

I agree that the Eriksen graphics are not great on the downtube and seat stays, and I may end up peeling them off, as they are stickers, not paint or water transfer decals. Kent might agree to do no stickers on your bike -- have you asked him? That said, I think the head badge is nicely done, and I would never take that off of my Eriksen.

Best,

Taylor Walker
San Francisco

[joosttx]

I own a Mosaic. It is awesome. I would imagine selling a moots will be easier than selling a mosaic. I will share my decision process with you and maybe it will help you. I wanted a titanium bike (no paint) because they can take abuse. My short list was Strong, Mosaic, Firefly, and Speedvagen (not ti). I wanted butted tubes, 142x12 TA, threaded BB, disc, and internal routing. (moots couldn't do what I wanted so they were out). My measurements were not custom, a stock bike could probably work. But I had some specific requirements regarding handling.

I viewed all the builders equal here. I received private emails praising all these builders and emails that were not so complementary on all builders regarding process or quality. In my opinion it was a wash.

Why I chose Mosaic
1) Mosaic is affiliated with bikeshops. This reduces the chance for headaches. See the latest locked thread. Above Category sells Mosaic and is near me and they pride themselves on excellent customer service. I had an excellent experience and AC made it happen smoothly.

2) Price: all things being equal they were priced equal to the others except for Firefly which was the higher than the rest.

3) Turn around: They built me a frame and delivered it in a month. Strong was like 3 months and firefly was like a year or more.

I am very happy with my bike. But I am pretty sure I would of been happy with the other bikes too. I don't think you are going to make a wrong decision with your short list.

[Bob Ross]

Kent might agree to do no stickers on your bike -- have you asked him?

+1 Can't hurt to ask. I had Carl Strong build me a bike without his name on the downtube. A small headtube logo and his tiny signature on the toptube are the only indications of who made the bike...well, unless someone asks me. Which people seem to do much more often than they do when I'm riding a bike with a visible name on the downtube. So it's win-win: I got a bike with the simple, austere aesthetic that I prefer, and Carl got a rolling, living, breathing advertisement for his frames that won't shut up about how awesome they are.

[Charles M]

Been having fitment issues that I'm just starting to address, went to a GURU fit and determined that my legs are relatively longer than my torso. So I need something like a 570TT and 200HT. Or, about the TT that would normally be found on a 56-58 cm bike, with the TT that would normally be found on a 60ish cm bike.

I'm looking for a new bike. Was probably going to order a Moots with the extended +1cm HT option as I'm really not excited about the Eriksen logo. But I might go Mosaic. I think the Moots would be easier to sell eventually as it would be a stock geo and have the brand recognition others lack. But the Mosaic RT1 is the only titanium bike aside from the Firefly that I am really excited about.

I have GURU fit numbers, but the fitting was only about 30 minutes of measurements and moving things around. Mosaic included in the price would be a full 1.5-2 hour RETUL fit with a power meter and the whole 3D laser shebang.

So with that explanation out of the way, how beneficial, if at all, would a fully custom bespoke frame like the Mosaic be in my personal riding comfort and handling over a stock size with the correct spacers/stem/seatpost to make it fit?


Go see a real top-flight fitter rather than depending on what seems to be a bit of a glorified tape measure session.

Then, if needs be (and or if you just want to) go spend a few thousand on a custom frame. If you have real issues, a fitted frame could have real benefits. Even in the case you don't have real issues, you can get some great things out of a custom frame from a handling and ride quality standpoint if you really know what you do and don't like about a few other frames and have a builder that understands geometry and how to give you what you want.



But go for a real fit session first.

I know of no well qualified fitter that will have you properly sorted in 30 minutes...

None.