Front Derailleur Trim on Shimano 11-Speed

[CSI Man]

Along with my CSI I have two other bikes all equipped with Shimano 6510 9-speed. I am perfectly happy with 9-speed, but as parts are getting harder to find I am considering upgrading one of my bikes to 11-speed. But one thing that makes me hesitate is front derailleur trim.

With the 9-speed, in both small and large rings, I can shift through 7 cogs in back without having to trim the front. So I never have to trim the front for all the combinations I actually use. My question is with the narrower cage on the 11-speed front derailleur how many cogs can you shift in back before having to trim the front? A related question, does Di2 automatically trim the front as you shift the rear?

[NeauDL]

Yes, Di2 automatically trims the front derailleur position as you move the rear.

[kgreene10]

And DA9000 (mechanical) has a trim position for both rings.

[cachagua]

I can shift through 7 cogs in back without having to trim the front. So I never have to trim the front for all the combinations I actually use...

Always been curious about this. I set my front derailleur up much as the original post describes -- one extreme of the travel, or the other, allows 75% coverage of the cassette, which is all I want to use. Having the derailleur sneak up or down a little, unbidden, would kinda mess with my system, and it's totally unnecessary anyhow. So, is it possible to disengage the automatic trimming?

The other question is: if this is what most people do (is it what most people do?) -- if there's been widespread success operating front derailleurs without auto-trim -- then, what's its purpose? Is it so you can cross-chain without that annoying noise?

[CSI Man]

I never really got an answer to my original question so I thought I would refresh the post. How many cogs can Shimano 11-speed (mechanical) shift through without trimming the front derailleur?

[ltwtsculler91]

I've had my bike with mechanical 11spd ultegra (6800) and I find that I usually get through 7-8 cogs before needing to trim the front. (Largest 3-4 on the big ring, and smallest 3-4 on the small ring) It really isn't hard and has become kind of a mindless habit to trim when I'm in one of those combos or crossing over

[tumbler]

I think it depends on the frame to some extent. I have one bike running 5800 that will cover the entire cassette without needing to trim, and one with 6800 that will not. It's possible that some magical combination of FD height/angle/tension/limits would do the same for my 6800 bike, but I've never been able to achieve this. That said, it probably covers 8/9 of the 11 gears without needing to trim so it's really not a big deal. Usually, by the time I need to trim, it's also time to shift into a different front ring.

[leftsidedrive]

Setting up shimano's 11 (and the new tiagra) is a different process than all other derailleurs that you've set up in the past. Make sure that the low limit is set correctly. The height and angle are similar to all other derailleurs, but the low limit is set properly when the outer cage is directly above the big chainrings teeth. When I walk into multiple bike shops in my town and check the low limit on a 5800 or 6800 bike, 8 out of 10 times it is set up incorrectly. the new front derailleurs do work well, if they are set up properly

[sg8357]

[snip] The height and angle are similar to all other derailleurs, but the low limit is set properly when the outer cage is directly above the big chainrings teeth. [snip]

Shimano front shifting has a built in over shift, so yes the limit screw
needs to be a bit farther out, then the cage moves back a tiny bit after
you release the lever.
Makes it a bit fiddly to get the limit screw set just right.

[josephr]

Anything Shimano 10sp is going to have this trim feature built into the shifters -- Tiagra 4600 and up. Setup like anything else...just a light click in the other direction. Tiagra 4600 FD has clearance issue with the other 10sp cranks which they fixed with 4700...plus the 4600 FD is a piece of junk, but everything else plays nice together. I know you're asking about 5800/Di2, just thought I'd clarify as 10sp parts are plentiful and cheap these days.

[shovelhd]

Setting up shimano's 11 (and the new tiagra) is a different process than all other derailleurs that you've set up in the past. Make sure that the low limit is set correctly. The height and angle are similar to all other derailleurs, but the low limit is set properly when the outer cage is directly above the big chainrings teeth. When I walk into multiple bike shops in my town and check the low limit on a 5800 or 6800 bike, 8 out of 10 times it is set up incorrectly. the new front derailleurs do work well, if they are set up properly

Thank you very much for this tip. I have a new crank with 9070 and have been having trouble getting the front shifting to work as well as before. I introduced lots of changes. 130BCD to 110BCD, 39/53 to 36/52, different manufacturer, different rings. I used the shop manual instructions but made sure to sight the cage as you described. Much better.

[leftsidedrive]

Thank you very much for this tip. I have a new crank with 9070 and have been having trouble getting the front shifting to work as well as before. I introduced lots of changes. 130BCD to 110BCD, 39/53 to 36/52, different manufacturer, different rings. I used the shop manual instructions but made sure to sight the cage as you described. Much better.

You're welcome. The great thing about Shimano is they release excellent tech docs, exploded views, and dealer manuals to anyone looking for the correct information for their components. This is a great resource, and quite frankly every professional service department should have this bookmarked.

http://si.shimano.com/

[benb]

The trim is fantastic on the shimano 11sp derailleurs...

You can ride every gear combination (even cross chained) and you don't spend much time at all trimming the front.

There are some decent videos on setup on youtube, it's very easy, though slightly different than older setups.

I also have rode some bikes fresh off the shop floor (test rides) that didn't have it set up correctly.

IIRC it's..

1) Set low limit with no cable
2) Attach cable
3) Move shifter to "low" trim for big ring (2 clicks)
4) Use barrel adjuster to adjust derailleur in this position for correct trim in large cogs
5) Shift to "high" trim for big ring + large cogs
6) Use high limit to adjust trim for small cogs + big ring

[David Tollefson]

This is one of the reasons I still like to run the old 8-speed Ultegra FD's with the 10-speed systems. Shifts just fine, but with the wider cage it doesn't need trimming across the whole range.