Di2 Drilling (what companies do it?) [Archive]

MrCannonCam

01-27-2016, 05:15 PM

bicycletricycle

01-27-2016, 05:20 PM

What material?

bfd

01-27-2016, 05:33 PM

Had an older family friend ask me if I knew any companies that could drill di2 holes into a non-di2 frame. I came up with Calfee but it seemed to be pretty expensive. Does anyone else know of another company out there that does it? I've seen a few diy threads but I'm looking for a company on behalf of an older gentleman I know he's not interested in trying it himself.

Why bother drilling?! Sram Wireless is out:

http://www.bicyclebuys.com/sram-red-etap-11-speed-road-groupset-5pc-build-kit/1010157?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=comparison-shopping&utm_campaign=Froogle

http://www.bicyclebuys.com/productimages/1010157PART.jpg

Good Luck!

MrCannonCam

01-27-2016, 05:52 PM

Frame material is carbon

bicycletricycle

01-27-2016, 05:53 PM

Ya, sram is a good place to start

pbarry

01-27-2016, 05:58 PM

^^ Yep.

Or external wiring is an option. Not sure why people seek to drill when they can route wiring.

bfd

01-27-2016, 06:02 PM

Ya, sram is a good place to start

Makes no sense to drill into a carbon frame when wireless is available. If he doesn't like Sram's shifting pattern (right up/left down, shift both to change the front), wait a year or so, you know Shimano is coming out with their version and who knows, Campy may have something too!

Further, I have a friend who laughs at Trek and Specialized for spending all kind of time on their latest aero bikes trying to conceal their cables. All they had to do was wait a year and Sram's wireless would have solved the problem.

Good Luck!

MrCannonCam

01-27-2016, 06:12 PM

I'll have to bring up the Sram to him. I'm not sure on price-point/availabilty etc. but I guess buying di2 and paying for a frame to re retrofitted may add up to be about the same. Shame it's Sram...

bicycletricycle

01-27-2016, 06:37 PM

Sram now, shimano or campy in a year or two when they sort wireless out,

pdmtong

01-27-2016, 09:21 PM

I'll have to bring up the Sram to him. I'm not sure on price-point/availabilty etc. but I guess buying di2 and paying for a frame to re retrofitted may add up to be about the same. Shame it's Sram...

Assuming that the electro-mechanical MTBF proves out in the field of us masses, and the user can adapt their behaviors to the "now I have to charge my bike like I do my phone" paradigm, all the complaints about SRAM should no longer apply.

Even the "new" left-right shift paradigm I bet can be mastered in a few blocks or a few rides. it was no different than adapting sram shifting on my CX after riding campy on the road.

what would be left for shimano or campy? smaller form factor, longer life battery, faster charging, less weight, programmability? cross product compatibility? all of these would be evolution.

v1.0 eTAP is revolution. I wouldn't waste my money paying someone to drill my frame UNLESS i was in love with said frame and wanted to keep it. carbon frames devalue so fast, drilling it will only speed that. I wouldn't buy it...if I wanted a Di2 frame I don't want the leftover cable stops still hanging on the tubes.

That said, a friend of mine drilled his Roubaix himself and bought a Ui2 group from one of the European retailers.

rockdude

01-28-2016, 08:12 AM

DIY- its ez. I have drilled a bunch of holes.

https://youtu.be/RORISzYGxso

oldpotatoe

01-28-2016, 09:47 AM

DIY- its ez. I have drilled a bunch of holes.

https://youtu.be/RORISzYGxso

I have too as has the shop. Really not that big of a deal. Just gotta make sure you can get the wires past the BB shell to the 3 tubes that have exit holes

Bob Ross

01-29-2016, 09:06 AM

Not sure why people seek to drill when they can route wiring.

I have never seen an externally wired frame, no matter how well executed, that did not look orders of magnitude more butt-ugly than an internally-wired build.

bicycletricycle

01-29-2016, 09:42 AM

I have never seen an externally wired frame, no matter how well executed, that did not look orders of magnitude more butt-ugly than an internally-wired build.

I have never seen a drilled frame that didn't make me sad.

pbarry

01-29-2016, 09:48 AM

Well said, Ryan.

Not to mention the reduced resale value of a DIY drilled frame. I wouldn't touch one.

SoCalSteve

01-29-2016, 07:05 PM

I have never seen a drilled frame that didn't make me sad.

Then you would be really sad to see my stable of " holed " bikes. Does it make you sad if the manufacturer drilled the holes too? Or just the DIY versions?

peanutgallery

01-29-2016, 08:30 PM

Warranty bin is MIA

Why bother drilling?! Sram Wireless is out:

http://www.bicyclebuys.com/sram-red-etap-11-speed-road-groupset-5pc-build-kit/1010157?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=comparison-shopping&utm_campaign=Froogle

http://www.bicyclebuys.com/productimages/1010157PART.jpg

Good Luck!

bicycletricycle

01-29-2016, 08:43 PM

Then you would be really sad to see my stable of " holed " bikes. Does it make you sad if the manufacturer drilled the holes too? Or just the DIY versions?

I do think its kinda sad that all the nice frames with routing for current gen electronics will be outdated soon.

As far as DIY mods go, it is true that some frames don't care too much about having a few holes in them, but in a couple years you'll just have a frame with hacked off mounts for cables, drilled holes you don't need and a wireless kit that doesn't care. Why not just leave a nice frame alone and wait?

Also, I apologize for the serious thread drift here

As far as the original question is concerned.

Calfee seems to have the most experience by far repairing and modifying carbon frames and I would go to them or the original manufacturer. If the cost is too high then sell the frame and get one built properly for the desired components.

I still think the wireless sram is a great option.

SoCalSteve

01-29-2016, 09:16 PM

I do think its kinda sad that all the nice frames with routing for current gen electronics will be outdated soon.

As far as DIY mods go, it is true that some frames don't care too much about having a few holes in them, but in a couple years you'll just have a frame with hacked off mounts for cables, drilled holes you don't need and a wireless kit that doesn't care. Why not just leave a nice frame alone and wait?

Also, I apologize for the serious thread drift here

As far as the original question is concerned.

Calfee seems to have the most experience by far repairing and modifying carbon frames and I would go to them or the original manufacturer. If the cost is too high then sell the frame and get one built properly for the desired components.

I still think the wireless sram is a great option.

I'm very happy with my wired - holed versions. They have been trouble free for many years now. Cannot imagine why I would need to go wireless. Wired does the exact same thing and only one battery. Seems like wireless is a step backwards in some regards.

pdmtong

01-29-2016, 09:25 PM

I'm very happy with my wired - holed versions. They have been trouble free for many years now. Cannot imagine why I would need to go wireless. Wired does the exact same thing and only one battery. Seems like wireless is a step backwards in some regards.

If you have an internal battery you need to put your bike near an outlet to charge it.

SRAM wireless you take the batteries off (easy) and charge them next to your phone.

There is no reason for you to retrofit an existing wired bike. But for a new build I see plenty about the ideas behind eTAP that I like over existing Di2 or EPS.

SoCalSteve

01-29-2016, 09:32 PM

FastforaSlowGuy

01-29-2016, 09:47 PM

Seven will do it but possibly only if it's a Seven. I asked them once. Cost is about $1K. Not cheap. They reinforce the holes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SoCalSteve

01-29-2016, 09:54 PM

Seven will do it but possibly only if it's a Seven. I asked them once. Cost is about $1K. Not cheap. They reinforce the holes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll do it for $100.00 and the cost of a couple drill bits. It's three holes!!! A $1000.00 to drill 3 holes??? I'm in the wrong business.

FastforaSlowGuy

01-29-2016, 09:58 PM

I'll do it for $100.00 and the cost of a couple drill bits. It's three holes!!! A $1000.00 to drill 3 holes??? I'm in the wrong business.

I passed. I assume they use use a unicorn horn drill bit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pdmtong

01-29-2016, 10:50 PM

if you are not near an outlet, you can plug it into any computer with usb to charge.

charge via computer USB? retirement has given you a lot of time on your hands. your perspective has become warped relative to the rest of us still in the race

pdmtong

01-29-2016, 10:55 PM

As far as DIY mods go, it is true that some frames don't care too much about having a few holes in them, but in a couple years you'll just have a frame with hacked off mounts for cables, drilled holes you don't need and a wireless kit that doesn't care. Why not just leave a nice frame alone and wait?
when EPS came out I spoke to the head of campy NA at sea otter about the then "new" group. He was pretty emphatic that those choosing it would likely be buying a new compatible frame, not retrofitting an older one.

IMHO drilling an existing is for the "gotta have it NOW" folks. Nothing wrong with that but I am content to wait (and excuse to get a new frame). Another perspective is I think drilling instantly kills resale. Would I buy someone's DIY? NO WAY.

SoCalSteve

01-29-2016, 11:06 PM

charge via computer USB? retirement has given you a lot of time on your hands. your perspective has become warped relative to the rest of us still in the race

I believe you just paid me a compliment. Thank you!!! :beer:

pdmtong

01-30-2016, 12:01 AM

I believe you just paid me a compliment. Thank you!!! :beer:

Yes I did
No snark

oldpotatoe

01-30-2016, 06:38 AM

If you have an internal battery you need to put your bike near an outlet to charge it.

SRAM wireless you take the batteries off (easy) and charge them next to your phone.

There is no reason for you to retrofit an existing wired bike. But for a new build I see plenty about the ideas behind eTAP that I like over existing Di2 or EPS.

Get an external Di2 battery if that is such a chore.

4 batteries, dock for one at a time(etapp), plus throw away batteries in levers.

You charge your bike lights, phone, etc., the same way. Sorry not seeing how 'put next to an outlet' is such a huge disadvantage.

shifting protocol is wonky, also. IMHO, of course.

I really doubt you will see many 'mainstream' frames wireless ONLY. That would be limiting sales hugely as Di2 sells many times the units of EPS and etapp, for a while.

oldpotatoe

01-30-2016, 06:40 AM

Seven will do it but possibly only if it's a Seven. I asked them once. Cost is about $1K. Not cheap. They reinforce the holes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Butch(head production cheese at Moots) said he'd come down to Boulder and drill my Vamoots for free..well, for a couple of beers. :D

Cicli

01-30-2016, 06:43 AM

I wouldnt hesitate to drill the holes necessary if it is appropriate.
What do you do with all the old cable stops? Or are there none?

unterhausen

01-30-2016, 06:56 AM

anyone that does carbon repair should be able to do a good job of drilling for Di2. Seems like there are a reasonable number of people that will do this

oldpotatoe

01-30-2016, 07:38 AM

I wouldnt hesitate to drill the holes necessary if it is appropriate.
What do you do with all the old cable stops? Or are there none?

On my Merckx, just left them there..kinda un aero but ...:D

tigoat

01-30-2016, 07:58 AM

Butch(head production cheese at Moots) said he'd come down to Boulder and drill my Vamoots for free..well, for a couple of beers. :D

Did you know that Butch is the new president of Moots? He is running the show for the whole company, not just production.

tigoat

01-30-2016, 08:01 AM

Then you would be really sad to see my stable of " holed " bikes. Does it make you sad if the manufacturer drilled the holes too? Or just the DIY versions?

There are only two small holes at the front and one at rear, just use a plastic plug to plug them up if they will not be used in the future. It is no big deal.

oldpotatoe

01-30-2016, 08:03 AM

Did you know that Butch is the new president of Moots? He is running the show for the whole company, not just production.

Yes I did, good, no nonsense guy..

pdmtong

01-30-2016, 12:13 PM

Get an external Di2 battery if that is such a chore.

4 batteries, dock for one at a time(etapp), plus throw away batteries in levers.

You charge your bike lights, phone, etc., the same way. Sorry not seeing how 'put next to an outlet' is such a huge disadvantage.

shifting protocol is wonky, also. IMHO, of course.

I really doubt you will see many 'mainstream' frames wireless ONLY. That would be limiting sales hugely as Di2 sells many times the units of EPS and etapp, for a while.

external battery? really? you think that looks ok?

look, we all know you hate SRAM. paradigms change. it's ok to stay with what makes you comfortable. I have no challenges going from campy on my road bikes to double tapping on my CX. Or from shimano or SRAM triggers to gripshift on various mtbs

eTAP is not going to take over the world but they have innovated...and that raise the bar for everyone.

brownhound

02-01-2016, 09:10 AM

zap

02-01-2016, 09:26 AM

I'll do it for $100.00 and the cost of a couple drill bits. It's three holes!!! A $1000.00 to drill 3 holes??? I'm in the wrong business.

Drilling holes in Ti?????? with a bit!!!!

You do understand that Ti is delicate and cracks (from poor machining not to mention drilling) propagate like a rip in paper.

tigoat

02-01-2016, 10:11 AM

Drilling holes in Ti?????? with a bit!!!!

You do understand that Ti is delicate and cracks (from poor machining not to mention drilling) propagate like a rip in paper.

Take a look of those titanium frames from Merlin, Litespeed, Lynskey, Seven, IF, Serotta, etc., as they all have water bottle mount holes drilled without being reinforced.

tigoat

02-01-2016, 10:14 AM

Slightly off-topic - does anyone know if there is a difference in holes for EPS and Di2? I bought a frame that was constructed for someone to use EPS and wondering if there'd be any issues on Di2. The frame-maker hasn't responded to my question.

Yes, EPS ports will work just fine with Di2 wiring, just use EPS grommets. The Di2 internal battery should be installed inside the seatpost or seat tube if you know how so it won't make a difference with a frame designed for EPS or Di2.

FastforaSlowGuy

02-01-2016, 10:30 AM

Drilling holes in Ti?????? with a bit!!!!

You do understand that Ti is delicate and cracks (from poor machining not to mention drilling) propagate like a rip in paper.

The quote I received from Seven was to drill into the carbon tubes of my 622 SLX. I'm not sure if that's what he's responding to or not. Also, I had no idea Ti was so delicate.

Bob Ross

02-01-2016, 10:32 AM

You charge your bike lights, phone, etc., the same way. Sorry not seeing how 'put next to an outlet' is such a huge disadvantage.

LOL! Yeah, ^^^this. Once you've become a enough of an enthusiast that you have a dedicated place to put your bike, it's just not that much of a stretch to make sure that where that place is has everything you need nearby.

Last time we had an electrical contractor doing work in the apartment we had him add a duplex outlet to the "bike room" right under where the missus hangs her Ultegra Di2-equipped (and drilled) bike. Probably added less than $100 to the EC's bill, and increased the resale value of our apartment!
:banana:

shifting protocol is wonky, also. IMHO, of course.

Yep. While I don't doubt that wireless electronic shifting will catch on, jumping on it now when eTap is the only available option just seems hasty.

And I still don't see wireless electronic shifting as anything more than a gimmick, an exchange of one potential inconvenience for another. (Or four others.) As I wrote over on the RoadBikeReview forum recently:

>>There are numerous wireless tx/rx protocols in use by a vast variety of industries, all far more mature than electronic shifting for bicycles...and not one of them is 100% reliable, foolproof, or insusceptible to interference. I understand that missing a shift on a club ride probably isn't a life-or-death situation, but I'm still not certain why anyone would want to embrace a potentially less reliable system for the added advantage of...what?

Is zero wires really that much more attractive than the minimal wires of a well-installed internally wired electronic groupset? Even when compounded by the added hassle of multiple batteries? Exactly what problem is wireless shifting trying to solve?<<

livingminimal

02-01-2016, 11:22 AM

Why do people act as though holes in a frame are that big of a deal?
Rendered obsolete?

You're going to have a couple of small holes for FD/RD wiring that are even noticeable.

If you move to wireless, fill them with a couple of drops of injectable silicone to keep �� out if your frame.

It's still going to look a hell of a lot better than cable stops on a bike that has wireless.

FastforaSlowGuy

02-01-2016, 11:25 AM

Because DIY drilling isn't good for resale. I don't think it's aesthetic objection.

livingminimal

02-01-2016, 11:28 AM

Because DIY drilling isn't good for resale. I don't think it's aesthetic objection.

I agree with this, but someone said frames are going to be nice current electronic route frames will be "outdated." just seems totally absurd.

Leave your current frames alone, build a new frame around the groupset if you must, or buy one of the Canyons or Orbeas.

zap

02-01-2016, 02:58 PM

Take a look of those titanium frames from Merlin, Litespeed, Lynskey, Seven, IF, Serotta, etc., as they all have water bottle mount holes drilled without being reinforced.

My post was in response to an end user with a drill and a bit drilling holes. One is going to have a hard time making a clean hole with basic tools.

Merlin learned to be careful (some early frames had cracks propagating from water bottle holes) and Litespeed, well, where to start. I'm sure Seven and IF and Serotta use(d) proper tools.

Carbon composite.......if a carbon frame needs to be drilled, leave it to experts like Calfee.