Scooters and motorpacing

[toaster]

Anybody own a scooter here for the purpose of motorpacing?

What makes a good scooter for this purpose and how best to utilize this tool in training?

[Avispa]

Anybody own a scooter here for the purpose of motorpacing?

Toaster,

I have used a scooter for motorpacing workouts when I raced. BTW, I just purchased a Vespa, but I don't think I will be using it for that. But they are surely fun to ride around, so get one that you can also ride around! :)

I think in Europe they make [made] special motor-pacing scooters... My old [Spanish] coach used to have some old type Euro scooter (I don't think it was a motor-pacing scooter, per se) that he nicely modified by welding the rear end of a set or rollers to it! The reason he did this was so that we could get really close and if he for some reason slowed down, we would touch the rollers instead of hitting the scooter. This worked out nice. But I think this was a special set up, which I have only seen used once or twice... I think he copied this from Merckx's.

When that scooter was not availble, we used Vespas with low cylinder capacity (cc). About 45 to 80 cc. One reason you do NOT want to use a scooter with too much power is because it can throw your workout out of synch, especially if the driver has not been trained to do this! You want to use a scooter that tops 40 to 50 mph. The Vespa LX 50 is a good choice for this. Mine is a GTS 250 and it can go 75+ mph, one of the reasons I said I would never use it for this. BTW, I am mentioning Vespa, because that's what I am familiar with. I recognize they are pricey, but I think they are the best ones. There are, however, many companies that make them now, like Honda.

....how best to utilize this tool in training?

We used the scooters for a few reasons in training:
1) to develop our tolerance of riding up close and fast; helps develop your instict for holding onto the wheel of a fast rider and when you get a lead in a sprint
2) to learn to maintain as high cadence at high speed, on high gears 53x15 and up... (leg speed)
3) for long interval work outs (10 or more minutes)
4) to develop high speed tempo riding as when one is in a breakaway.

Again, make sure that your driver knows what he/she is doing!!!! Motorpacing is very risky if you don't know what you are doing and any distraction on the part of the driver or the cyclist behind, could be fatal!

But MPcing is one heck of a lot of fun! I was great to go really fast for a extended period of time and not feel the wind [or a slowing rider] hampering you!

[fiamme red]

Anybody own a scooter here for the purpose of motorpacing?

What makes a good scooter for this purpose and how best to utilize this tool in training?Spike Bike would motorpace behind this Vespa:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/giro06/index.php?id=/photos/2006/giro06/vespa/IMG_0677.

That should get plenty of respect from drivers.

More Vespas:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/giro06/?id=/features/2006/giro_vespa

[ada@prorider.or]

Anybody own a scooter here for the purpose of motorpacing?

What makes a good scooter for this purpose and how best to utilize this tool in training?


i do did it yes ,
and in europe i think 90 % of the pro race´s use it
for leg speed and endurance on high speed
in preperations on classic´s some do 4 to hours behind scooters
and also lot of elite cyclist use here too

[obtuse]

i love motorpacing......my old man used to pull me around on a hurting obtuse honda. it's a great way to get speed work in and to train in flatish terrain.

obtuse

[stevep]

best way to get fast fast.
a 50cc will do the job... restricted gear... excellent
its easy but hard

[Fat Robert]

low traffic roads

scooter driver who has done it before

can't get those two things?

forget it.

mp'ing is not mp. it is a great training tool -- but you can also mess yourself up if either the rider or the driver doesn't have the skills to be comfortable and safe at motorpacing speeds. the fat man speaks from fat painful experience here. after motorpacing with a good driver a few times, fatso went out with a good rider -- a 2 -- on the scooter, but it was his first time (left out that little detail). the short of it is tubby lost about a month healing up after that one....

[stevep]

no doubt its dangerous, no doubt. it is, however, the best possible training tool that does not come in a jar.

[William]

Well, we used to use an old Jeep Cherokee for motor pacing the entire team around Champoegh park (the Banana belt course). A scooter would have been good but the old Cherokee did us just fine. We would work a bunch of drills that would culminate with a speed drill that had the vehicle slowly accelerating with the pack fighting to see who could be the last person hanging on.......until they finally got spit out of the bubble too.

Loads of fun.

And I agree, you need a driver that knows what the heck they are doing.


William

[stevep]

trouble with a car/ truck is that its too easy. a decent rider can go 60 mph right tight to a suv...makes it way more dangerous and way more sketchy.
moped is perfect... go 28-9-30 mph and be near the edge.
some pros will ride behind a hatchback with the back up...purely to loosen up before a race...its too easy for work but nice to loosen up at speed.
gets the body used to going 30mph without working too hard.

[dirtdigger88]

I mentioned this once before - and got ripped on my several folks

so Ill mention it again

there is a bike trail that I often ride- its not like a normal bike trail- it is actually a lightly used industrial access road for the various shipping companies along the Mississippi River- several years ago Trail Net adopted it as a bike path-

you still cross several trucking lanes- and you WILL incounter a car now and then- it also runs through the 'hood' -

So dont hound me about the risks of my actions to kids- small woodland creatures and nuns- cause they aint on this trail-

Ok so you have the set up- well it is also a popular course for the kids with the 50cc crotch rockets to run on -

I love to tuck in behind them :cool: At this point I either have the fun of freaking them out when I catch them- or the fun of a long draft if we have done it before and they know what to do-

Jason

[sspielman]

As Steve P has said, there is no better way to develop speed than to motorpace....As a smaller rider (grimpeur sounds better), I find that motorpacing provides all of the elements that I find hardest to train.
For the purpose, I have an Italjet scooter. It is 50 cc and I removed the "speed restrictor. This enables the scooter to reach 45 mph...not that you would necessarily want to motorpace at that speed! As others have mentioned, you want the scooter to have enough power to be able to stretch you out, but you want the power limited enough that the accelleration is slower.......You also want a good pilot on the motor. My wife has become one of the best pilots....

[William]

trouble with a car/ truck is that its too easy. a decent rider can go 60 mph right tight to a suv...makes it way more dangerous and way more sketchy.
moped is perfect... go 28-9-30 mph and be near the edge.
some pros will ride behind a hatchback with the back up...purely to loosen up before a race...its too easy for work but nice to loosen up at speed.
gets the body used to going 30mph without working too hard.

Funny, though true. I mentioned this once before and cited just that. I was often the last one hanging on at close to 60mph before I spun out the gear...as I said, they were gradually accelerating. Good ol'e Roy said it couldn't be done. (In my bad Yoda voice: With him it always can not be done hmmm). ;)

It may not have been the best option, but it's what we had and what we used....to good effect actually.



William

[William]

BTW,

Believe me, you better trust the guys your riding with to get in a group of six or more guys riding behind a vehicle like that. Everyone moving and cycling through the pace line while trying to stay tight within the bubble while at speed. No Squirrels need apply. :no:


William

[sspielman]

BTW,

Believe me, you better trust the guys your riding with to get in a group of six or more guys riding behind a vehicle like that. Everyone moving and cycling through the pace line while trying to stay tight within the bubble while at speed. No Squirrels need apply. :no:


William

Agreed 100%. Motorpacing accidents are spectacular. About 8 years ago, a group of 3 of us were pacing at about 32 mph. The motor was carrying a couple of spare wheels on a modified car rack.....anyhow, one of the quick releases "released" and let go of one of the wheels....All three of us went down pretty hard. Nobody noticed anything broken, but everybody got pretty stiff for a few weeks...and I couldn't really stand to climb or sprint for a couple of weeks. Now, all these years later, I am still suffering some of the ill effects in the form of a back injury...and am going for another MRI this morning (no joke) to look for a herniated/ruptured disc that is becoming obnoxious in the way it is pressing on a nerve....So, it is great training, but it isn't without its risks.....

[bostondrunk]

Good ol'e Roy said it couldn't be done. (In my bad Yoda voice: With him it always can not be done hmmm). ;)

......
William

Trust me, Roy knows about speed training. He took a new cervelo R2.5 out for a 'speed test' behind his car for me last year. I asked him who was riding it, he said nobody.......... :confused: .........oddly enough, it broke after 1.5 hours of my riding it for the first time............atmo.......imho.........

PS. I love Cervelo
PPS Clinchers suck
PPPS I really hate Cervelo
PPPPS Tubulars rule, clinchers sucketh big time

cheers imho BRO

[EdK]

50cc is too small and typically they are two strokes and stink especilly when breathing hard. Four stroke 100cc - 150cc scooters are best. Yamaha Vino 125 is exceptional, fast enough with enough throttle response to keep out of trouble. The type of work out done while motorpacing can be anything from intesive shorter intervals coupled with sprints into the wind and then getting back on the moto without getting dropped to extended >20 minutes higher speed (>30mph) threshold work. Key is the appropriate work out intensity, at race speed. Sorry if any if this is too obvious or...... A skilled understanding moto pilot (best if they are a cyclist so they understand the impact of thier actions) is paramount!!!