2016 Super Bowl.... [Archive] - The Paceline Forum

Ray

01-25-2016, 10:49 AM

OK, the Patriots thread has sort of taken on the role of all NFL discussion here for more than a year. And now that the Patriots are fully and thankfully out of it, they don't deserve to have the discussion of THIS year's Super Bowl named in their honor. So here's a new one for the Broncos and Carolina. Or the Sheriff vs Superman if Peyton and Cam's nicknames hold.

I'm almost always for the NFC unless the Cowboys are in it, although I can be won over by an underdog as long as the Eagles aren't playing in January. And I don't expect to see them there for some time to come after the hot steaming mess of feces and other disgusting internal parts that Kelly left strewn about in his wake - good luck with that SF...

This year I'm torn between the desire to see Peyton have a great Super Bowl winning send-off (and please dude, retire after this year before they have to scrape your body off of the turf and reattach that once amazing right arm) and seeing the changing of the guard and the beginning of the Cam era. No telling if Carolina is gonna be great for a while or if their run is short, so I sort of want to see Cam get it done this year. He surely deserves it to go along with every other accolade coming his way this year. And I've never been that much of a Peyton fan when he was was great - just sort of nostalgic for him now that he's a wrinkled old guy

I fully expect Carolina to win, but I'm wrong more than I'm right. In either case, should be fun to watch...

Thoughts, opinions, betting lines - have at it.

-Ray

echelon_john

01-25-2016, 10:55 AM

Go Pats. 120 days until camp.

djg21

01-25-2016, 10:57 AM

Go Pats. 120 days until camp.

They'll be back. Hopefully they'll draft some offensive linemen.

superbowlpats

01-25-2016, 11:05 AM

I'm hoping of a repeat of SB XLVIII where Denver got their asses whooped 43-8. based on what I saw yesterday there's a good chance that will happen again. of course as a Pats fan I'm bitter so take that with a grain of salt.

Go Panthers :hello:

PQJ

01-25-2016, 11:19 AM

It'd be nice to see Peyton end his career with a victory. BUT, the Panthers this year, like the Seahawks a few years ago, have been for the entire season and are right now destined for the win.

Burnette

01-25-2016, 11:20 AM

Wow, Pats fans are well represented here, ha!
I pull for players I like on teams that are not my own (yay, Go Lions! Yes, I live a hard, tortured life) and Peyton is one of them.

I live in NC and my wife pulls for the Panthers. I like the team too and Cam's great attitude has been infectious on his team mates and his fans.

Peyton has a ring and is going to the Hall. It's Cam's year. As much as I like Peyton and hated to see him bashed in the media, there is no holding back the momentum that is the Carolina Panthers.

p nut

01-25-2016, 11:23 AM

Don't care for Peyton or Nationwide.

♪ Broncos are getting their butts kicked. ♪

denapista

01-25-2016, 11:26 AM

Carolina plays with a physicality on the O Line that's going to cause havoc for the Denver Secondary.. The only thing that glares out to me, is Ginn Jr. as Cam's ultimate option. On the other side of the ball, Peyton has all kinds of play makers. The NFC title game was a mix of two things.. Carolina making the most of the turnovers and Arizona defense just looking really bad.

Peyton will lose another one, but I'm hoping he gets to ride off in the sunset. The way he was ran out of Indy, was kind of disgusting to someone who has been the consummate professional QB. It happens to all of them though. Business > Ethics.

bikerboy337

01-25-2016, 11:29 AM

As a Boston College grad, I'm pulling for my boy Kuechly and Carolina, as much as that pains me to root for Cam Newton (much of my family went to Alabama and I happen to be at the Iron Bowl a few years back where Alabama blew a huge 1st half lead to Cam and Auburn)...

Go Panthers...

Also helps that I had the second pick in my fantasy playoff pool and ended up with Carolina... so i got money on them...

livingminimal

01-25-2016, 11:37 AM

Despite having been a D1 prospect myself, I could give a �� about football. Havent watched more than a few minutes of a regular season game since the mid-2000s I reckon. I was shocked to find Arizona was good, Carolina is good, and were getting a new football stadium in Los Angeles. I literally know nothing about college football.

All that said, I must chime in and say my late mother was a huge Denver Broncos fan and obviously a supporter of me when I was a prospect and playing and frankly was disappointed when I decided not to go to college right away and play.

The broncos made the super bowl in 2014 right after she passed away, I was soooo hoping for them. I guess now I have to watch another Super Bore and root for them. Here's hoping they can pull it off and win one for me maaahh.

Elefantino

01-25-2016, 11:53 AM

livingminimal

01-25-2016, 11:55 AM

malcolm

01-25-2016, 11:59 AM

I'm with Ray on this one, kinda torn would love to see Peyton get another ring and fade into the sunset, but Cam has been just fun to watch and what an athlete.

As an aside. How can you not like Peyton? I'm originally from Louisiana so I like everything Archie created, but he always seemed like an upstanding guy that works hard and plays with a team spirit. Fire away!!

bironi

01-25-2016, 12:00 PM

Don't care for Peyton or Nationwide.

♪ Broncos are getting their butts kicked. ♪

I could not say it better.:beer:

makoti

01-25-2016, 12:08 PM

As an aside. How can you not like Peyton? I'm originally from Louisiana so I like everything Archie created, but he always seemed like an upstanding guy that works hard and plays with a team spirit. Fire away!!

Always loved Payton, a true pro who worked HARD at being one. Until he donned the orange. Now, I respect him so much that it hurts to want him to lose this badly. Oh well, we root for laundry. My laundry is Red & White, so GO PANTHERS! I think I just threw up a little...
It'll be on, but I can't say I'll watch.

Ray

01-25-2016, 12:25 PM

Not meaning to sound sanctimonious but I have for the most part given up on the NFL. I was bothered by the concussion scandal (and felt close to it as one of my former reporters co-wrote the blockbuster, with his brother; he got a lot better since he left me!) and by the league's reaction to that and to the domestic abuse scandals.

I believe that the NFL has become a violence cartel, and I don't use the C-word lightly.

But that's just me. To Broncos and Panthers fans, :beer:

Hi everyone, I'm Ray, and I'm a football addict. Hi Ray. Hi Ray, Hi Ray....

Not to make fun of AA, but this is kind of serious too. I've sort of accepted that this is who I am and I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna get sober (except from after the Super Bowl until late summer sometime, every year, I dry out completely and easily). I hate football, HATE it. For all the reasons you mentioned above. Not too long ago read your former reporter's book, but I was very very up to date on the concussion stuff well before that. The NFL disgusts me. Even worse is the idea of kids being pulled into this cult as pee-wee's (in my day, we were only allowed to play flag football until high school), and through high school.

I was a mediocre to bad defensive back in high school. I was an idiot and led with my head on more brutal hits than I want to remember, not that I can. I was lucky I was never paralyzed. I was absolutely and definitely concussed at least a few times. After my junior season I remember feeling like I wasn't myself and that lasted for MONTHS. I got by in school, I still had my friends, but something in my head wasn't working right and it was bad enough that I was real aware of it. By the next Spring I started to think I was "back", was OK, and I was really aware of the difference. Never diagnosed or treated, but it seems pretty obvious in retrospect. When all of the concussion stuff started coming to light, it all made sense in retrospect and I thanked my lucky stars that I wasn't good enough to play past high school. I fully expected to play my senior year, even as I started feeling like myself again, but as the summer wore on and I was getting in shape for two-a-days, it was occurring to me that I didn't really have to subject myself to that again. I always loved the game, but I didn't really love the brutal parts of it, even though I got adequately good at them. Flag football was always a lot more fun than full contact. So I bailed - didn't report for two-a-days, told the coach I wasn't playing when he called (I wasn't good enough to really be missed but it was nice of him to ask), and got on with life.

But I'd been watching football and loving it since I was about 4 years old - I was born in Baltimore in 1959 and lived there until 1968, so you can imagine the football environment I was raised in with the Colts - my Dad had season tickets and I saw Johnny U and Raymond Berry and John Mackey play many many times and every week on TV when I wasn't at the game. It stuck. And I can't stop watching and enjoying it even today on one level, despite how much I hate so much of what it's about. I started feeling that way when I saw Theisman's leg snap on Monday Night Football, and it just kept getting worse and worse and worse, leading up to the concussion stuff and the domestic violence stuff, none of which I find even remotely surprising.

So it's an addiction - I hate it but I love it too much to quit, even though I've tried a couple of times. But autumn Sundays have always been about football and they still are and I'm evidently powerless to stop it. So I give into and love the parts I can love, hate the rest, but I keep drinking from that bottle.

Fully aware that it's not hurting ME like most addictions, but it's keeping alive a sport that should have died a long time ago, and is hurting many MANY other people, from school kids on up. And on one hand I think it should die and hope it does, but on the other, not in my lifetime... I'd miss it too much.

So, that said, go Panthers!

-Ray

malcolm

01-25-2016, 12:34 PM

Again, Ray, I feel the same way. I know I shouldn't support the sport with my dollars or air time, but I grew up with it and love to watch.

It's the only sport I can think of where maximum violence is actually part of every play. It really is crazy when you think about it. The violence is not incidental it's inherent in every snap.

denapista

01-25-2016, 12:39 PM

I played WR all through youth and high school. I come from a football family. My cousin tried out for the Broncos a couple seasons ago, he's now making defensive plays in the arena league. My family is relatively a bunch of skinny fast dudes, so we're either receivers or defensive backs. I've seen dudes arms pop out of socket, legs twisted backwards and bones popping out of skin playing football. There are consequences for all sports that involve physicality of that nature. I have no idea how rugby guys have long careers.

I stopped playing football in High School because of the physical punishment. Nothing more than that. There's an underlying machismo in america, especially in high school where playing football proves your toughness. Not watching the NFL because of how they've handled real life scandals is out of my reach. I don't sit around on weekend anticipating the entire NFL channel lineup. If a good game is on, I'll watch a half or something.

cloudguy

01-25-2016, 12:47 PM

I have no idea how rugby guys have long careers.

My understanding is that the helmet and pads in football are part of the problem. Take those away and the players are more likely to try and protect their head and body. I wonder if in fifty years that is the way the game will be played, i.e. without helmets and pads? I know that a lot of parents (myself included) would never want their kids to play football, so perhaps that is where the change will ultimately come from.

FlashUNC

01-25-2016, 12:50 PM

Whoever wins, the real loser is Bay Area commuters.

Ye Gods this is going to be a nightmare.

Len J

01-25-2016, 12:50 PM

All the experts said Den had zero chance against NE...... I fully expect the same re Car.

Car will end up a 4-5 pt favorite and I think it's likely going to be a closer game than that.

Car beat a team that choked on Sun. No way I expect Den will give them 7 turnovers.

Should be an interesting but low scoring game. Take the under IMO

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

denapista

01-25-2016, 12:58 PM

I said the same thing...

Smoke and mirrors with that Carolina Arizona game. Carolina played good enough to beat a team that looked like crap from the coin flip. Give the Panthers credit for playing a really solid game, but Arizon blew it. I can't tell you the last time I saw 7 turnovers in a championship game..

Even with Carolina playing the way they were, the Cards dropped that punt and the game was 7-17 at that point. Score on that drive and short field and they were right back in it.

I text my buddy when watching the NE game after the Pats first score. When the kicker missed the PAT, I told him that point was going to haunt NE. It just felt like a big missed PAT. In Championship games, those bloopers are huge when the game is magnified and comes down to possessions. Getting a TD on the red zone is one thing, but having to line up twice and do it is even harder. 2 point conversion, I'm talking about. Especially with the game on the line. The numbers on 2 point conversions don't lie.

Ray

01-25-2016, 01:00 PM

It's the only sport I can think of where maximum violence is actually part of every play. It really is crazy when you think about it. The violence is not incidental it's inherent in every snap.
Absolutely, and it's probably THE primary reason football surpassed baseball as the national pastime. It appeals to us on a gut level where the potential for violence lives. And as much as I consciously hate the brutality inherent in the game, the old defensive back living in my gut can't deny the charge I get out of seeing a d-back light up a receiver coming over the middle. Which are among the most brutal hits in the game because they happen at such high speeds, usually running straight 180 degrees INTO each other.

I can't reconcile it, I can't find a way to make it OK, but I can't honestly deny it either. It's been in my blood so long it's not coming out. But if I had sons instead of daughters, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have let them play 10-15 years ago when they'd have been at that age, and I damn straight absolutely wouldn't let them play if they were that age today.

It's one of those things I'm left using a saying about that I hate and find totally meaningless, but it seems to make sense to me in this regard, "it is what it is". Probably shouldn't be, but it is...

-Ray

makoti

01-25-2016, 01:19 PM

My understanding is that the helmet and pads in football are part of the problem. Take those away and the players are more likely to try and protect their head and body.

I brought this up to a group of British I was cycling with, and they started to name of all these different players who had gotten severe concussions playing rugby. When they started saying some had died, I decided maybe that argument didn't hold up so well.

Ray

01-25-2016, 01:44 PM

I brought this up to a group of British I was cycling with, and they started to name of all these different players who had gotten severe concussions playing rugby. When they started saying some had died, I decided maybe that argument didn't hold up so well.

My understanding is that the helmet and pads were introduced by Teddy Roosevelt back when so many college players were dying on the field (or from injuries incurred there) that the game was in danger of being outlawed. It was part of some negotiated agreement to save college football over 100 years ago... I'm sure I have some of the details wrong, but that's the just of my memory of what I've read...

-Ray

brownhound

01-25-2016, 01:49 PM

ltwtsculler91

01-25-2016, 01:53 PM

My understanding is that the helmet and pads were introduced by Teddy Roosevelt back when so many college players were dying on the field (or from injuries incurred there) that the game was in danger of being outlawed. It was part of some negotiated agreement to save college football over 100 years ago... I'm sure I have some of the details wrong, but that's the just of my memory of what I've read...

-Ray

I know that the TR introduction was the forward pass, since at that point football was essentially repeated running plays into a giant scrum at the line. I believe helmet and pads were natural evolution from that point not mandated by the college rules modifications

Aaron O

01-25-2016, 02:01 PM

I'd love to watch Manning go out on top and retire, but I think Carolina is going to be able to dominate the Broncos on defense and capitalize enough on offense. I see Newton having a rough game but doing enough to win.

Red Tornado

01-25-2016, 02:52 PM

Unless the Broncos find a way to move the ball more effectively, the only question will be how many TD's will the Panthers win by. Broncos O looked up & down at best. The Panthers D will not be a downgrade compared to the Pats, and if anything could be an upgrade. A healthy Peyton still has it in him, but the team has got to step up and help him out. Broncos D, even though they are #1, will have their hands full with probably the most explosive offense in the NFL. They can hold them, but only for so long. If the Broncos start repeated 3 & outs, like late in Sunday's game, that #1 D will get worn down eventually.
Much as I like Peyton, I say Panthers by 24.

djg21

01-25-2016, 03:29 PM

Rugby doesn't seem to have the same organization of two sets of people firing off at one another; it flows more. I don't know if that's accurate, but it seems to have far fewer of the usual football hits where, say, a receiver is running in one direction as fast as he can and a defensive back levels him head or shoulder first running in the opposite direction. In Rugby, they seem to be traveling in the same direction more often.

Anyway, I'm a life-long Bronco fan. Glad to see them back and hopefully they won't be 2-7 in Superbowls. Only a whisker difference between NE and Denver yesterday.

I find it hard to tell if Carolina is the second-coming of 2013-14's Seahawks -- young, fast, hungry and good -- or they're just running down hill against easier opposition. From what I saw yesterday, Palmer started getting desperate and was just throwing into awful situations that were easy pickings for any decent defensive backfield. Panthers are a far more interesting team.

I played football in highschool, then briefly in college before switching to rugby. Rugby in college, in retrospect, was stupid because you had all the ex-football players teeing off on people as if they were in full pads, and making up for their lack in skill with aggression. I played at a higher level in a ski town with a number of World Cup players, and there was far less contact. The game was much more about ball handling, speed and finesse.

jlwdm

01-25-2016, 03:49 PM

I hope Carolina wins as few people have had faith in them all season and they have hung in there. Not a Manning fan so that makes the decision easy.

Just not excited about the game though. I was thinking of having some people over for the game - but not this game.

Jeff

Rpoole8537

01-25-2016, 06:51 PM

I've lived in Western NC and upstate SC most of my life and I pull for Clemson and the Pathers. It's been a fun year in my house. I think the Denver D is fantastic. I've never seen Brady so baffled. The Panthers also have a good defense, and can most likely slow Manning. Cam and the Panthers will present a lot of problems because they can move the ball in so many ways. I think that the Panthers will win a close one.
Also, I think that football will change dramatically in the next 10-15 years. A good friend who played in the SEC feels the same. Good thing I enjoy basketball!

Seramount

01-25-2016, 07:05 PM

I quit caring about pro football when Dallas got rid of Tom Landry.

SBash

01-25-2016, 07:15 PM

akelman

01-25-2016, 07:26 PM

This is magnificent.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/694994-carolina-panther-cam-newton-is-the-worst-nfl-draft-pick-ever

pdmtong

01-25-2016, 07:33 PM

Smoke and mirrors with that Carolina Arizona game. Carolina played good enough to beat a team that looked like crap from the coin flip. Give the Panthers credit for playing a really solid game, but Arizon blew it. I can't tell you the last time I saw 7 turnovers in a championship game.

Palmer was simply channeling his inner rich gannon. the same gannon who threw five picks in the super bowl, three returned for TDs.

makoti

01-25-2016, 07:46 PM

This is magnificent.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/694994-carolina-panther-cam-newton-is-the-worst-nfl-draft-pick-ever

Damn internet. Just keeps everything. If he is smart, he'll wear his Superman Underoo's.

bikinchris

01-25-2016, 07:46 PM

Scuzzer

01-25-2016, 07:50 PM

Rugby in college, in retrospect, was stupid because you had all the ex-football players teeing off on people as if they were in full pads, and making up for their lack in skill with aggression.

A couple of the guys on my college club rugby team tried to recruit me to play for them. I showed up to watch a coupla games and went to the bars with them afterwards and what I figured out was these were the guys that weren't good enough to play D1 football but they wanted the attention anyways. They played rugby until they bled, so they could show the wounds at the bar.

I didn't play college rugby.

pbarry

01-25-2016, 09:18 PM

Carolina 21
Denver 24

Denver's defense will have Cam feeling just like Brady, hearing footsteps that aren't there. They can catch Cam if he runs.

Manning will not have a great game, but they will manage to score 24 points.

I like this spread. A win is a win.

livingminimal

01-26-2016, 07:44 PM

More on the stupid, barbaric nature of this ��ed up sport:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/sports/football/former-giants-safety-tyler-sash-found-to-have-cte.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

saab2000

01-26-2016, 07:55 PM

More on the stupid, barbaric nature of this ｷｷｷｷed up sport:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/sports/football/former-giants-safety-tyler-sash-found-to-have-cte.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

I am saddened, but not surprised, by any of this. I love football as much as anyone and my family is a season ticket family at Lambeau Field. But I think we will see a decline in football's fortunes if these injuries aren't addressed.

If I'm a parent in the next 25 years I'm less and less likely to encourage, or even allow, my kids to play football. It's a great game, but the dangers are very real and very few people are left unscathed.

How many high school and college players who never make it to the NFL are left permanently damaged by this?

livingminimal

01-26-2016, 08:48 PM

How many high school and college players who never make it to the NFL are left permanently damaged by this?

I was a d1 prospect. I hit people hard. I also played hockey for 20+ years, granted most of that was lower/non contact.
I wonder every day if some depressive episodes I suffer are the result of CTE.

soulspinner

01-27-2016, 06:13 AM

Exonerv

01-27-2016, 07:34 AM

I think Carolina will fare far better against the Denver defense than NE. They have a much more balanced offense and a stronger offensive line. Bring all those blitzes against the Panthers and you're going to see some huge runs. When Brady or Peyton ran the ball in the AFC championship, spectators cringed and even Manning's own teammates were shocked.

I'm a Manning fan, but he is not the Manning of old. I think the Panther D will get to him early and force turnovers...just as they have done to even more mobile QB's all year.

Cam will not be denied...if he has to run the ball every play, he'll get it done in SB50.

Len J

01-27-2016, 08:24 AM

Here is an interesting take from someone who ran the Packers front office for years.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/01/25/nfl-denver-broncos-carolina-panthers-super-bowl-50-ultimate-mismatch

maj

01-27-2016, 08:33 AM

soulspinner

01-27-2016, 09:16 AM

I like that since I'm root'n for DEN and 24 points is certainly do-able with 8 field goals (only 2 per quarter):)

:p

saab2000

01-27-2016, 09:37 AM

NFL Films is up to their usual high standards and got some good footage with sound of the 2015 season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTRmyXX6ipU

firerescuefin

02-07-2016, 09:13 PM

Don't care for Peyton or Nationwide.

♪ Broncos are getting their butts kicked. ♪

Sweet victory. Thanks for coming out. Guess they had a chance.

jds108

02-07-2016, 09:18 PM

I though for sure Carolina was going to win, but I'm glad that they didn't. Nicely done by the Broncos.

makoti

02-07-2016, 09:19 PM

Sweet victory. Thanks for coming out. Guess they had a chance.

It was more like pre-ordained. That was a pig of a game.

cloudguy

02-07-2016, 09:20 PM

Sweet victory. Thanks for coming out. Guess they had a chance.

You called it brother. Von Miller was insane.

firerescuefin

02-07-2016, 09:23 PM

It was more like pre-ordained. That was a pig of a game.

I thought it was exciting. Unwatchable Broncos offense. Masterpiece by their defense.

pbarry

02-07-2016, 09:24 PM

Sweet victory. Thanks for coming out. Guess they had a chance.

Wow, just amazed. Well done, men.

cloudguy

02-07-2016, 09:25 PM

Yeah, it was pretty ugly ... unless you like defense.

cloudguy

02-07-2016, 09:26 PM

No clue, but I'd guess that was the worst offensive performance to ever win a superbowl?

swPArider

02-07-2016, 09:29 PM

Congrats to Peyton and the Broncos. No more bashing Peyton for not being able to win the big one.

makoti

02-07-2016, 09:58 PM

I thought it was exciting. Unwatchable Broncos offense. Masterpiece by their defense.

Both those were true, but the game turned very early on that horrific call on Cotchery's catch. After that, I never doubted the outcome.

firerescuefin

02-07-2016, 10:01 PM

Both those were true, but the game turned very early on that horrific call on Cotchery's catch. After that, I never doubted the outcome.

We must have watched a different game. Carolina didn't lose the game based on that call. Their offense was owned by the Denver D.

pbarry

02-07-2016, 10:06 PM

We must have watched a different game. Carolina didn't lose the game based on that call. Their offense was owned by the Denver D.

Yep.

mgm777

02-07-2016, 10:16 PM

Got it done, with a crushing defense, just like the regular season. Go Broncos!

pbarry

02-07-2016, 10:30 PM

Crickets from fans of a NE team.. Love it.

pjm

02-07-2016, 10:51 PM

CampyorBust

02-07-2016, 10:55 PM

https://youtu.be/5IqCfxgKZd8

pdmtong

02-07-2016, 11:59 PM

Newton didn't look like any league MVP during his press conference. Hoodie over his head, sulking, one word answers and finally just getting up and walking out. That was the real Cam Newton. Luke Kuechley should be the face of that team, he handled his presser with good sportsmanship and class, something Newton hasn't yet learned.

No kidding. For all his talk prior about no one has seen a QB like me, the big smiles, the yea I am the face of the league, he completely reverted to an unfortunate stereotype.

Both Boom/steve/tom on primetime, and the anchors on sportscenter were dismayed.

The Panthers weren't in the game, despite Denver's offensive difficulties. Someone needs to tell Cam to wear a suit, stand in the interview pocket for 3 minutes, and take the hits just like he did i the game. No one was ripping him. They all asked the expected questions with a great deal of sympathy and empathy.

pdmtong

02-08-2016, 12:02 AM

beeatnik

02-08-2016, 12:43 AM

So, when has a No. 1 defense with an experienced All-World quarterback not won a Super Bowl against a kid 3 years out of college?

edit: oops, 5. he sucked for 3 years.

bikinchris

02-08-2016, 12:46 AM

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 05:54 AM

Crickets from fans of a NE team.. Love it.

....yeah, pretty funny, because they're the first to tell you how great they are. No surprise there/here.

Denver needs to enjoy this one, because there are no guarantees going into the Osweiler era. Going to be very hard for that D to maintain that level of play. Success means people want to get paid. V Miller is due for his really BIG contract (he played himself into that), and they have a bunch of players that now they've got their ring are going to be looking the best payday (as most of us would). It'll be interesting. NE coulda/shoulda (not being sarcastic) beat the Broncos this year. They'll retool and with #12 back there, probably will be in the mix again next year. Not as sure about the Broncos.

oldpotatoe

02-08-2016, 05:59 AM

I thought it was exciting. Unwatchable Broncos offense. Masterpiece by their defense.

Broncos defense won this game. Panthers and Broncos offense shut down, just Cam's shut down more. Cam was an embarrassment. Probably first time he's seen such a defense. So was Talib..he needs to ease up on the 'roids'.

oldpotatoe

02-08-2016, 06:02 AM

Oh, and what's with Cam not diving on his strip/fumble?

The guy is 6'5" and 240 and he watches the pig quirt from right in front of him? Oh please. That cost them any chance right there.

GaGa killed it. Bruno and Bey saved us from having to watch chris martin pogo sticking the entire time.

defensive dominance obviously. pretty boring unless you are a student of the game.

Didn't want to get hurt.:eek: he already knew the game was not his..Press conference showed how immature he is. Kinda like Sagan or Cav of football.

Blue Angels baby!!!!

soulspinner

02-08-2016, 06:28 AM

Broncos defense won this game. Panthers and Broncos offense shut down, just Cam's shut down more. Cam was an embarrassment. Probably first time he's seen such a defense. So was Talib..he needs to ease up on the 'roids'.

Ya, wondered if some of Cams throws high early were jitter induced. Said it in the wake of all the naysayers, but great defenses win games. Peyton made mistakes but the new football superman hasn't really arrived yet. Oh and Cam at 260 not diving for a ball he had a chance at? This is football, what was he saving himself for with an off season to heal. Hes no Rothelesburger.

soulspinner

02-08-2016, 06:33 AM

Looks like I underestimated Carolina. They were a lot more flustered by Denver's defense than I thought they would be.

really, if you can make the best look like that (Brady, hurts to say it) you can do it to Newton .

jlwdm

02-08-2016, 07:03 AM

Crickets from fans of a NE team.. Love it.

Why would New England fans be saying anything now? I do not understand your point.

New England struggled all year even when they had the winning streak at the beginning of the year. Expectations are always high for NE even when they are not at their best. I thought it was remarkable they made it so far this year, but there were not a lot of great teams this year.

Jeff

Ray

02-08-2016, 07:04 AM

Nope, didn't see that one coming. Denver's dee was the whole package. Cam didn't have time, his receivers weren't open when he did, and he didn't throw well under pressure, or early on even without pressure. Peyton had the lowest QB rating of any winning QB in Super Bowl history if my local radio station is to be believed (which I do not take as a given!). Brady really made the Denver dee earn it two weeks ago, really earn it - last night they weren't ever pressed.

Cam really spit the bit. I liked the guy and didn't mind his theatrics at all, but when you show so little class when you're losing, you lose respect. His unwillingness go after the ball when he fumbled, his crying to the ref about an arguably late hit late in the game, and his no-show in the interview room are just not the way you can act when you've just been named the league MVP and when you're so eloquent in victory. I think he's good enough to get more shots at this and I hope he does well and grows up in the process, but he's not there yet.

Props to Josh Norman for his on-field tribute to Peyton when he left the game. The opposite of petulant - really classy.

-Ray

soulspinner

02-08-2016, 07:13 AM

Why would New England fans be saying anything now? I do not understand your point.

New England struggled all year even when they had the winning streak at the beginning of the year. Expectations are always high for NE even when they are not at their best. I thought it was remarkable they made it so far this year, but there were not a lot of great teams this year.

Jeff

They had an amazing season when you weigh in on their injuries and have already(early enuff?) been installed as Superbowl faves for 2017.......

superbowlpats

02-08-2016, 07:13 AM

Crickets from fans of a NE team.. Love it.

As a Pats fan i was routing for Carolina since I've hated Denver/Manning since forever. But the Denver Defense was really impressive and it I'm ok with them winning and Manning being a non-factor. In fact that team wins in spite of Manning. Amazing that Pats almost pulled that one out 2 weeks ago. Now Peyton can retire and get his HGH shipped directly to him and not his wife

oldpotatoe

02-08-2016, 07:18 AM

As a Pats fan i was routing for Carolina since I've hated Denver/Manning since forever. But the Denver Defense was really impressive and it I'm ok with them winning and Manning being a non-factor. In fact that team wins in spite of Manning. Amazing that Pats almost pulled that one out 2 weeks ago. Now Peyton can retire and get his HGH shipped directly to him and not his wife

Cute.

93legendti

02-08-2016, 07:22 AM

Pats fan. Wanted Broncos to win. I like a defensive struggle. One of the few Super Bowls where I watched the whole game

MattTuck

02-08-2016, 07:44 AM

Glad to see a defensive player get the MVP.

I have a lot of respect for Manning, and I think the HGH thing has Roger Goodell's fingerprints all over it. Yes, we should take cheating seriously, but you have to be suspicious when two years in a row you have big 'cheating' controversies leading up to the super bowl. Hopefully Manning is treated better than Brady was, when they do the investigation.

soulspinner

02-08-2016, 07:48 AM

Pats fan. Wanted Broncos to win. I like a defensive struggle. One of the few Super Bowls where I watched the whole game

Yes!

daker13

02-08-2016, 07:48 AM

Crickets from fans of a NE team.. Love it.

Yeah, uh, what would you expect to hear?

Manning's terrible. The Broncos D was really impressive. The calls generally favored the Broncos, and there were some bad ones--but nothing beyond the realm of general good football luck. The Panthers didn't have much of a game plan, didn't protect Cam, didn't protect the football. Boring game. On the strength of their defense, the Broncos fully deserved the win. They totally mauled that offense line.

On the whole, the entire show is a putrid, unwatchable spectacle of cornball BS and excess, a parade of fulminating blowhard after blowhard, the music is wretched, the advertising is about as creative as a minister of propaganda, the fake sentiment and gravitas is vomit-inducing, and yes, I feel exactly the same way when New England is in the Super Bowl.

Climb01742

02-08-2016, 08:12 AM

Len J

02-08-2016, 08:17 AM

T.J. Ward: 'We didn't want the happy, fun-spirited, dabbing, dancing Cam. No, we wanted the sulking, upset, talking to my linemen, running backs, I don't know what's going on, Cam Newton. And that's what we got.

Len J

02-08-2016, 08:19 AM

Terrible coaching is terrible....how can you have 2 weeks to prepare and add very few wrinkles?

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/02/08/nfl-super-bowl-50-denver-broncos-defense

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 08:20 AM

Huge props to the Denver D. I thought Carolina's O would give them a stiff test with their run game and Cam's mobility. But Vonn & Co. proved even better than I thought. Wade did another stellar job of defensive play calling. Talib, however, proved to be every bit the knucklehead he was here, talented but a knucklehead.

Interesting to compare how Brady and Newton handled getting the snot beaten out of them. Tom never quit and dropped dimes into tiny slots right until the end. Cam turtled and backed away from his own fumble.

John Wooden is often misquoted as saying 'Sports build character.' What he really said was, 'Sports reveal character.' Denver's D rose to the occasion. Cam not so much.

For his own sake, I hope Peyton retires with this ring...as the third best QB ever.:D:beer:;)

^ This...all of it. Cam has a lot of growing up to do. He's happy to be the smiling "future face of the NFL"....but his performance last night from the first snap to the closing lines of his press conference were not what I would consider representative of the "MVP". He's still young...an absolute freak, and that Carolina team is stacked and needs a few more weapons at WR. I don't root against people. Hopefully, he'll figure it out.

Gained a lot of respect for Brady the way he battled/hung in there/and handled himself in the aftermath of the AFC Championship.

Len J

02-08-2016, 08:35 AM

Huge props to the Denver D. I thought Carolina's O would give them a stiff test with their run game and Cam's mobility. But Vonn & Co. proved even better than I thought. Wade did another stellar job of defensive play calling. Talib, however, proved to be every bit the knucklehead he was here, talented but a knucklehead.

Interesting to compare how Brady and Newton handled getting the snot beaten out of them. Tom never quit and dropped dimes into tiny slots right until the end. Cam turtled and backed away from his own fumble.

John Wooden is often misquoted as saying 'Sports build character.' What he really said was, 'Sports reveal character.' Denver's D rose to the occasion. Cam not so much.

For his own sake, I hope Peyton retires with this ring...as the third best QB ever.:D:beer:;)

Not defending Cam's immature behavior, but a little perspective is needed. Early in his career (and even later), when Brady was petulant with the media after a loss, he was called a great competitor, when Cam does it he has no character. I'd say he lacks maturity. Let's see where he is when he's in his late 30's to compare.

Len

brownhound

02-08-2016, 08:35 AM

I've been a Bronco fan since birth and have sat through 5 Super Bowl losses. Very happy to see another win, as I know they don't come around very often. I will hopefully enjoy and not think about whether this defense could carry an Osweiler Bronco team with a re-vamped O-Line.

I figured if Denver won, it would need at least one if not two defensive touchdowns. That's essentially what it got. The Bronco red zone offense was just as bad as it had been all year, frankly.

As far as Cam goes, his character in defeat is the same as in victory. He's an emotional, high-spirited guy. When it goes well, he's beaming and alive. When it doesn't, he's morose and angry. Yeah, he's not Brady, but then Brady is the same boring white guy model as most other quarterbacks since forever.

akelman

02-08-2016, 08:36 AM

I don't like Manning at all -- this goes back to my time living in NOLA -- but I'm glad to see him go out with a win. He's one of the best ever, and the criticisms of his big-game performances have always seemed somewhat unfair to me. That said, he was basically a bystander in a game that the Denver defense -- including Wade Phillips, who deserves a lot of credit -- absolutely owned. Anyway, I'm very happy Denver won. I was rooting for the team (not Manning), the fans, the city, and the region.

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 08:40 AM

Yeah, he's not Brady, but then Brady is the same boring white guy model as most other quarterbacks since forever.

Handling losses/adversity with class is not a race thing...plenty of African American athletes aren't standing by the way Cam handled himself last night. I have no problem with happy/fun/dabbing Cam...I do have a problem with how he handles adversity/losses afterwards. Last night was not a good look for someone who is the league MVP , one who self declares himself as "the future face of the NFL" and the "Lebron of the NFL"....He is young...hopefully he matures.

brownhound

02-08-2016, 08:45 AM

Handling losses/adversity with class is not a race thing...plenty of African American athletes aren't standing by the way Cam handled himself last night. I have no problem with happy/fun/dabbing Cam...I do have a problem with how he handles adversity/losses afterwards. Last night was not a good look for someone that self declares that he is "the future face of the NFL" and the "Lebron of the NFL"....He is young...hopefully he matures.

Hopefully he does, but he's wearing his heart on his sleeve in either instance. That's who he is, and in my opinion he doesn't have to act like Peyton or Tom. We have a particular view of how a QB is supposed to act, essentially like a politician or a corporate executive. And perhaps as a marquee face for a gazillion-dollar league and spokesman for products, he's supposed to be. But IMO it's not realistic; his job is to throw, run and hit, not give press conferences.

Climb01742

02-08-2016, 08:52 AM

Not defending Cam's immature behavior, but a little perspective is needed. Early in his career (and even later), when Brady was petulant with the media after a loss, he was called a great competitor, when Cam does it he has no character. I'd say he lacks maturity. Let's see where he is when he's in his late 30's to compare.

Len

No argument, Len. Cam is young. He's enormously talented and as a fan, I hope his best years are ahead of him. Part of the challenge of any athlete, or any person for that matter, maturing is, do they have people in their lives who can, and will, talk to them honestly about their strengths and weaknesses? Cam has everything in front of him. Hopefully he has people beside them helping vs enabling.

Len J

02-08-2016, 09:00 AM

No argument, Len. Cam is young. He's enormously talented and as a fan, I hope his best years are ahead of him. Part of the challenge of any athlete, or any person for that matter, maturing is, do they have people in their lives who can, and will, talk to them honestly about their strengths and weaknesses? Cam has everything in front of him. Hopefully he has people beside them helping vs enabling.

I am not a fan of Cams behavior but his talent is amazing. I too hope he"gets it".

That said, none of us know how much of the public performance in front of the media is real vs not. There are tons of examples of great public personas that are totally false.

I hope he figures this out.

Len

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 09:07 AM

Hopefully he does, but he's wearing his heart on his sleeve in either instance. That's who he is, and in my opinion he doesn't have to act like Peyton or Tom. We have a particular view of how a QB is supposed to act, essentially like a politician or a corporate executive. And perhaps as a marquee face for a gazillion-dollar league and spokesman for products, he's supposed to be. But IMO it's not realistic; his job is to throw, run and hit, not give press conferences.

If you're telling everyone "people aren't ready for someone like me" "I make people uncomfortable"....I'm a 42 year old white male. You don't make me uncomfortable in the least....as I suppose you don't make most people uncomfortable. If that chip helps you play better, then use what you got. That said, if you're going to put yourself out there as the future and the face, then take the bad with good, and handle yourself with grace and class. Guarantee we would have seen a very different winning Cam...and everyone would be talking about how good he is "for the kids"...Nah, you don't get it both ways.

I've always loved Charles Barkley (someone who is notorious for making people uncomfortable), not because I agree with all of his takes, but he is at least honest and is pretty quick to sniff out hypocrisy.

MattTuck

02-08-2016, 09:09 AM

malcolm

02-08-2016, 09:09 AM

Not defending Cam's immature behavior, but a little perspective is needed. Early in his career (and even later), when Brady was petulant with the media after a loss, he was called a great competitor, when Cam does it he has no character. I'd say he lacks maturity. Let's see where he is when he's in his late 30's to compare.

Len

I tend to agree. He's still a kid and I suspect a kid that went in to this game having never considered he might lose.
He's been great in victory and yeah that's easy, but I'll give him a disappointed pass on this one and see what the future holds.
He is a tremendous athlete one like I've never seen at his position. The fumble and not trying to recover, who knows. Hard to think he was holding back look at the shots he takes running. Maybe he thought his arm was clearly moving forward.
I'm giving him a little room and hoping he grows from this.

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 09:20 AM

was probably all an act. Now he has a built in narrative for next year. "I learned a lot about myself, and what it takes to be successful in this league. I've recommitted myself to work twice as hard, and learn how to fight through adversity.... etc. etc."

And it could all be true.....Dude has the world at his fingertips. He can let this define him or help forge him into one of the all time greats. If he doubles down and dedicates himself to learn from the mental and physical mistakes....those guys will get behind him even more.

FlashUNC

02-08-2016, 09:22 AM

Postgame media interviews make the worst and dumbest form of theater that exists in the modern world.

This wasn't Sheeds "Both teams played hard." But its up there. Between Marshawn last year and now Cam, its been a banner two years at the Super Bowl for those who think the pregame and postgame interviews are, well, worthless.

MattTuck

02-08-2016, 09:26 AM

On the topic of his fumble, the angle that I saw (wasn't watching that closely), it looked like the ball was maybe 2 or 3 feet from his foot. I'm not sure he could 'dive' on it, I think he had to back up in order to make a play on it. When you're that tall, diving forward would put you 3 feet beyond the ball. that is how I saw it.

One other thing, at the risk of, you know, talking about bikes, is that this superbowl has some aspects that are similar to the upcoming spring classics.

you have Cancellara in his last year, and Boonen nearing the end of his career. And you have these younger talents that are looking very bright. Is it a generational shift or will the old guys go out in style?

rugbysecondrow

02-08-2016, 09:31 AM

No clue, but I'd guess that was the worst offensive performance to ever win a superbowl?

Agreed. At one point, Denver had a defensive TD and 3 field goals...I was hoping they wouldn't win like that.

It was not a fun game to watch. Manning didn't play well, Cam played worse. His WR let a few passes go. Some of the calls by the officials seemed to slow and impact play unnecessarily. The Half-time show was flat (except Bruno). Even the commercials lacked entertainment.

All of this wrapped up in a 4+ hour event.

All that said, I am glad Manning won.

Oh, and what's with Cam not diving on his strip/fumble?

The guy is 6'5" and 240 and he watches the pig quirt from right in front of him? Oh please. That cost them any chance right there.

.

This was probably the most disappointing thing I saw all game. He didn't even try to go for it...he actually pulled up and opted not to try and grab it. To me, this indicated that he quit, he had already given up. All the press conference stuff, he is only hurting his own branding by acting that way, but quitting on the field...that is different.

Climb01742

02-08-2016, 09:31 AM

Russell Wilson has taken some heat for being too programmed, maybe a little too corporate, kind of bland. But I think he deserves credit for how he handled himself last year after SB 49. It couldn't have been easy facing the questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmsYJ5XxCJ0

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 09:57 AM

"You are the face of our brand right now," Sanders said. "You can't do that. I understand the emotions of losing. You can't do that. A Manning, a Brady, all of those guys who have been prototypical [guys] would never do that.

"You can't be dabbin', smiling, styling and profiling when you win, so this is how you go out when you lose?"

denapista

02-08-2016, 10:19 AM

That had to be one of the worst Super Bowls I've ever watched. So many 3 and outs... Peyton couldn't even push off his old legs to avoid sacks or the pocket breaking down. It was really sad to watch someone with no physical ability look so crappy on Super Bowl Sunday. I even think Peyton realized it himself. I've never seen a QB win the Super Bowl and not be overwhelmed with excitement, run down the sidelines or anything. YOU WON THE SB?!?!?!?! That had to be one of the weirdest games I've ever watched. His defense was celebrating and Peyton was just mute. Physical humility caught up to Peyton, the same way it caught up to Kobe earlier this season.

He couldn't announce his retirement during this game, it would rob his Defense and coordinators of their shine. He'll do it in the upcoming weeks. One of the greatest QB's of my lifetime, and if only Indy had a D like that all of those years with Edgerin James, Marvin Harrison, Pierre Garcon, etc. He had an amazing arm, IQ and no defense. Basically exactly what Andrew Luck is going through right now. Isn't it ironic that Luck is facing the same pains Peyton experienced at Indy? Goes to show that winning starts from the front office down to the booth to the field. Indy's front office is a joke!

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 10:37 AM

pdmtong

02-08-2016, 10:45 AM

Didn't want to get hurt.:eek: he already knew the game was not his..Press conference showed how immature he is. Kinda like Sagan or Cav of football.

Blue Angels baby!!!!

Over my friends house a few minutes after GaGa finished. We did 50 that morning got home plenty of time for game

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/08/df91f6693108f66f79fce291655ac474.jpg

akelman

02-08-2016, 10:46 AM

Let the hate flow through you. (http://deadspin.com/peyton-manning-can-eat-��-1757781250?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebo ok&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)

PQJ

02-08-2016, 10:53 AM

Crickets from fans of a NE team.. Love it.

Crickets? NE didn't play last night. As a fan of the Pats, Brady and Bellichick, I have this to say - well done Peyton! well done Broncos! I was rooting for you.

pbarry

02-08-2016, 10:58 AM

Why would New England fans be saying anything now? I do not understand your point.

New England struggled all year even when they had the winning streak at the beginning of the year. Expectations are always high for NE even when they are not at their best. I thought it was remarkable they made it so far this year, but there were not a lot of great teams this year.

Jeff

I was curious if the NE supporters were just Pats fans, or football fans. Several have spoken up now, with some keen observations and sentiments. :beer:

jpw

02-08-2016, 11:00 AM

why is the ball a brown colour? i find it difficult to pick up in flight.

pbarry

02-08-2016, 11:42 AM

Try polarized lenses. ;)

gemship

02-08-2016, 11:47 AM

why is the ball a brown colour? i find it difficult to pick up in flight.

I know...one would think in this day of age it would be pink.

Corso

02-08-2016, 12:02 PM

Pats fan here:

In case you didn't notice, the pats didn't play last night, so why would we comment? But since you asked:

Brady being booed was completely classless. Thanks NFL for helping feed the Patriots hate feeding frenzy.

Mannings� drug use will not be explored by the NFL.
NFL didn't have inflation proof this year in their favor, so Goodel is just downplaying whatever record keeping i'm sure the refs screwed up.

Players should remove head covers during the national anthem. Yes, Cam, even you. No excuses for this.

Why is Cams celebrations touted as “Just being Cam--cultural thing before the game, to now his walking off during the presser “Cams just young, not a cultural thing? Can't have it both ways.

Nice fumble recovery Cam...

Glad for Payton, now he can give Eli crap at thanksgiving dinner.

If Brady celebrated the way Cam does, the NFL would no doubt be fining him.

The NFL is too inconsistent when it comes to enforcing these rules.

I really didn't care who won this game, but in the end, I'm glad Denver did.

Makes the Pats loss a tiny bit easier to swallow

Halftime show sucked IMO. Nothing new, prop kids playing fake violins? Silly.

I guess Payton like Budweiser. Goes good with Pappa Johns i guess.

Overall: truly hard to believe Denver won it all this year, but they always found a way.

Props to Cam and the Panthers for a great season, but as they said in “Rollerball"�Cam, like Jonathan E, you “can't be bigger than the game"...

pinkshogun

02-08-2016, 12:18 PM

i enjoyed the game. it still could have gone the Panthers way until Cam didnt want to break a nail diving for the fumble

merlinmurph

02-08-2016, 12:21 PM

But IMO it's not realistic; his job is to throw, run and hit, not give press conferences.

Actually, it is his job, or part of his job.

FWIW, I tend to be a forgiving guy and give people one mulligan. You get one screwup to learn from, and that's it. This Pats fan is giving Cam a mulligan. He's young, he's learning, he's had a good run - and he screwed up. So, he gets this one mulligan from me, and that's it.

gemship

02-08-2016, 12:27 PM

Actually, it is his job, or part of his job.

FWIW, I tend to be a forgiving guy and give people one mulligan. You get one screwup to learn from, and that's it. This Pats fan is giving Cam a mulligan. He's young, he's learning, he's had a good run - and he screwed up. So, he gets this one mulligan from me, and that's it.

OK but what about Belichick's press conference's? He makes Cam look like a saint.

Corso

02-08-2016, 12:31 PM

OK but what about Belichick's press conference's? He makes Cam look like a saint.

Belichick has won 6 Superbowls.

Besides that, the number of press conferences he's had to do over the years is a few more than Cam, correct?

paredown

02-08-2016, 12:32 PM

...

Nice fumble recovery Cam...

..

I might be in the minority on this, but it looked as if he saw one of his team mates diving for it, hesitated and didn't pile on top, and then the team mate came up a little short because someone had his legs or pounded him mid leap...

gemship

02-08-2016, 12:36 PM

Belichick has won 6 Superbowls.

Besides that, the number of press conferences he's had to do over the years is a few more than Cam, correct?

Yep and he gives monotone, single syllable response like he is some preprogrammed robot...only you can tell he just doesn't want to talk to the press. He's a real gem for sure.

jpw

02-08-2016, 12:37 PM

I know...one would think in this day of age it would be pink.

orange would work for me.

rugbysecondrow

02-08-2016, 12:52 PM

OK but what about Belichick's press conference's? He makes Cam look like a saint.

Belichick isn't the MVP nor is Belichick trying to develop his brand image.

Listen, Cam Newton made a comment earlier in the year about his dancing and celebration, essentially say, "if you don't like it, then stop me". Denver put their cleats up his ass and stopped him this game, and he couldn't even act professional in defeat. Ron Rivera was professional, other players were professional. Blair Walsh (vikings kicker who missed the winner FG) was professional. Russell Wilson...the examples go on and on. Cam...nope.

He makes a LOT of money being Cam Newton, Superman, Dabbing and celebrating. He hurt himself this game, and I say this as somebody who enjoyed watching the Panthers all season.

Quitting on the fumble though...that was tough to see.

Climb01742

02-08-2016, 12:54 PM

Yep and he gives monotone, single syllable response like he is some preprogrammed robot...only you can tell he just doesn't want to talk to the press. He's a real gem for sure.

Trust me, I think Bill is as big of a prick as non-Pats fans do, but there is one big difference, I think: Bill acts the same in victory and defeat. He never courts the spotlight. If you want the spotlight in victory, I think you are obligated to endure it in defeat.

Bill's public character is set. He's a total jerk. But you hope this was just a moment for Cam, not a character-defining act. Bill will never change. Cam can grow and mature.

gemship

02-08-2016, 01:10 PM

Lots of valid points. Regarding Cam or Belichick and I can see the differences. I also see press conferences as a bit black and white. They all are human so they get the break for being that but they really do have an obligation to try to be polite and communicate well. Just for sarcasm sake and because I am not much of a fan of football, they make way too much money to not kiss the media's butt, it's the their gig, the big show and spotlight on them. On that note I am always impressed with how Brady handles the press, just a class act.

ptourkin

02-08-2016, 01:10 PM

Manning finishes the game and endorses Budweiser and Papa John's. Apparently, the inevitable slow demise from CTE has already commenced.

makoti

02-08-2016, 01:17 PM

Manning finishes the game and endorses Budweiser and Papa John's. Apparently, the inevitable slow demise from CTE has already commenced.

Until this moment, I had not connected CTE with taste bud decline, but the evidence is clear.

oldpotatoe

02-08-2016, 01:18 PM

Manning finishes the game and endorses Budweiser and Papa John's. Apparently, the inevitable slow demise from CTE has already commenced.

Did ya see that, Payton gave PapaJohn a smooch!! I think he owns a bunch of stores or a big chunk of PJ.

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 01:18 PM

Manning finishes the game and endorses Budweiser and Papa John's. Apparently, the inevitable slow demise from CTE has already commenced.

That made me laugh...and as a Bronco/Manning fan thought that was a chicken��/weak way to go out....pimping pizza and beer for a few extra bucks.

malcolm

02-08-2016, 01:24 PM

That made me laugh...and as a Bronco/Manning fan thought that was a chickenｷｷｷｷ/weak way to go out....pimping pizza and beer for a few extra bucks.

Or the mark of a true pro that knows where his and the league's bread is buttered.

jlwdm

02-08-2016, 01:25 PM

That made me laugh...and as a Bronco/Manning fan thought that was a chickenｷｷｷｷ/weak way to go out....pimping pizza and beer for a few extra bucks.

Especially bad with the quality of the beer and the pizza.

Jeff

jlwdm

02-08-2016, 01:31 PM

On the topic of his fumble, the angle that I saw (wasn't watching that closely), it looked like the ball was maybe 2 or 3 feet from his foot. I'm not sure he could 'dive' on it, I think he had to back up in order to make a play on it. When you're that tall, diving forward would put you 3 feet beyond the ball. that is how I saw it.

...

I think you are 180 degrees off on this point. This was the Superbowl. He could have fallen on it. He gave up the ball a couple of times in about the worst field position possible.

It was a time he needed to do whatever it took to get the ball and he did worse than nothing. He backed up and stood there.

Press conferences are press conferences - the game was more important. Carolina did not react well when under pressure.

Jeff

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 01:55 PM

Or the mark of a true pro that knows where his and the league's bread is buttered.

Certainly aware where his is buttered. It's just a bad look IMO. I get the commercials....I just don't get doing it in what will your last interview...where your team just carried your proverbial casket to a Super Bowl victory. Very Nascar of him. I'm sure he cares what I/others think. :rolleyes:

malcolm

02-08-2016, 02:22 PM

Certainly aware where his is buttered. It's just a bad look IMO. I get the commercials....I just don't get doing it in what will your last interview...where your team just carried your proverbial casket to a Super Bowl victory. Very Nascar of him. I'm sure he cares what I/others think. :rolleyes:

I agreee with you, but I think it's ingrained to support your sponsors. I think Manning does care what people think to some degree and probably more than most in his position. His family, Archie, have always been upstanding citizens in New Orleans.

I'm sure there will be a bunch of press conferences where he can laud his teammates that carried him to this ring. I suspect no one is more aware of that than him. Lets just hope he has the sense to let it go while on top and doesn't Farve it.

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 02:24 PM

I agreee with you, but I think it's ingrained to support your sponsors. I think Manning does care what people think to some degree and probably more than most in his position. His family, Archie, have always been upstanding citizens in New Orleans.

I'm sure there will be a bunch of press conferences where he can laud his teammates that carried him to this ring. I suspect no one is more aware of that than him. Lets just hope he has the sense to let it go while on top and doesn't Farve it.

I'm a huge Manning fan and agree with all your thoughts above....which made me hope for more. You're right...probably making too much of it.

rugbysecondrow

02-08-2016, 02:26 PM

pdmtong

02-08-2016, 02:46 PM

Lets just hope he has the sense to let it go while on top and doesn't Farve it.

Farve did get the vikings into the playoffs the following year iirc. Manning on another team would not. He's done.

Years from now he will still have the 200 wins, 14-13 playoff record, 2 rings. I wasn't rooting for him. But dont begrudge him the ring.

Plenty of other SB QB's were no more than game managers and got their rings while not really leading the team. So it is the case here.

FlashUNC

02-08-2016, 02:56 PM

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 02:58 PM

Remember all this hand wringing when Peyton left the field early before the game was over, and didn't even bother to congratulate Drew Brees or anyone else from the Saints after they beat his Colts in Super Bowl 44?

Nope, no double standard here. No sir...

He owned it after the ass kicking to the Seahawks. I won't defend his actions against the Saints....just like I won't defend Cam

paredown

02-08-2016, 03:13 PM

mgm777

02-08-2016, 03:26 PM

Remember all this hand wringing when Peyton left the field early before the game was over, and didn't even bother to congratulate Drew Brees or anyone else from the Saints after they beat his Colts in Super Bowl 44?

Nope, no double standard here. No sir...

Cam's behavior is being scrutinized under the spotlight because he was so-over-the-top with his pre-game self-adulation and arrogance. Warming up on the field with the superman under layer, strutting around the field with gold MVP cleats, and the pre-game interviews inferring he didn't want to be compared to great QBs of the past, since he, himself, is redefining what a great QB is. His post-game behavior was that of someone who has some emotional growing-up to do, in my opinion. He is a great athlete and arguably a great QB. If he can grasp the concept of being humble, learn to give credit to others, and willingly, as the leader of his team, accept blame, even when it's not his fault, directly, he might then, and only then, get his wish and redefine the "Great QB" category.

akelman

02-08-2016, 03:35 PM

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this -- if so, I apologize for being too lazy to read the whole thread -- but Newton was facing the press as one of the Broncos' DBs was being interviewed right next to him. They were close enough that Newton could hear the guy talking about the Broncos' defensive game plan: forcing Newton to pass. Understandably, Newton wasn't happy that he had to listen to this guy rub his nose in what happened during the game. If you see the video of Newton synched up to the interview tape, it's quite clear. If I were Newton, I would have been angry and stalked out too.

Now, it's really easy to say, "It's his job to deal with situations like that. He gets paid to be the face of that franchise and one of the faces of the league, a role that he claims to welcome." But I think, given the circumstances, that's somewhat unfair. Newton had just endured a brutal defeat (and I do mean brutal; the Broncos' defense kicked his @$$ all over the field for four quarters). To confront what sounded an awful lot like gloating in the postgame interview room seems like insult atop injury.

By the way, I'm not a fan of Newton's. I just think the NFL, in its usual style, botched this situation.

FlashUNC

02-08-2016, 03:38 PM

If he can grasp the concept of being humble, learn to give credit to others, and willingly, as the leader of his team, accept blame, even when it's not his fault, directly, he might then, and only then, get his wish and redefine the "Great QB" category.

Just like that time Peyton threw the offensive line under the bus for a playoff loss to the Steelers?

akelman

02-08-2016, 03:38 PM

I should add that the DB in question, when he learned that Newton could hear him being interviewed, said that he would have been angry too. Again, the postgame interview room was amazingly poorly laid out. As I said above, if you see tape of Newton synched up with the DB's interview, it's 100% clear that Newton is reacting to the interview and not the questions he's being asked by the press.

Way to go, NFL! Nice job shielding* one of your young superstars!

* Get it? Try the veal!

mgm777

02-08-2016, 03:41 PM

Just like that time Peyton threw the offensive line under the bus for a playoff loss to the Steelers?

Don't know what your beef is with Peyton, but his behavior in no way compares to what we saw last night. Not even close.

akelman

02-08-2016, 03:42 PM

Don't know what your beef is with Peyton, but his behavior in no way compares to what we saw last night. Not even close.

Read my comment above, please. The behavior we saw last night is being taken out of context.

soulspinner

02-08-2016, 03:46 PM

jimcav

02-08-2016, 03:47 PM

I might be in the minority on this, but it looked as if he saw one of his team mates diving for it, hesitated and didn't pile on top, and then the team mate came up a little short because someone had his legs or pounded him mid leap...

his posing and antics are very off-putting to me

that said, everyone views the plays in slow motion and applies hindsight expectations of REALTIME decisions, but within that slow motion view.

Watching something in slo-mo, you "see" an opportunity to react that isn't really there. in real time, it looked like his teammate was on it. Wrong choice, but watching it real time it doesn't seem nearly as studied a decision as slow motion analyzers make it seem (to me anyway)

kevinvc

02-08-2016, 03:47 PM

Farve did get the vikings into the playoffs the following year iirc. Manning on another team would not. He's done.

Years from now he will still have the 200 wins, 14-13 playoff record, 2 rings. I wasn't rooting for him. But dont begrudge him the ring.

Plenty of other SB QB's were no more than game managers and got their rings while not really leading the team. So it is the case here.

All very true. The Panthers defense shouldn't be completely overlooked either. They were on the field a long time and were completely gassed by the end of the 3rd quarter, but they had a good game overall. They jumped a couple of routes really well and presented a few different looks at the line of scrimmage.

Manning's arm is a wet noodle now, but I think his game management from yesterday deserves more credit than I've seen so far. It looked like he changed the formation and blocking schemes a few times when he saw what the defense was going to do.

IMO, he played a really good, smart game and I think a lot of other QBs in this league with stronger arms wouldn't have performed as well as he did.

FlashUNC

02-08-2016, 04:02 PM

Don't know what your beef is with Peyton, but his behavior in no way compares to what we saw last night. Not even close.

My beef isn't with Peyton. Its trying to make last night "a thing."

Was Cam churlish? Maybe. But no more so than what Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or seemingly every other deranged nutcase who is obsessed with winning in the NFL does at some point in their careers. Peyton stomped off a Super Bowl field before the game was even over because Tracy Porter ate his soul. And that never even rose to the level of a controversy.

Its this notion that somehow the guy who won the MVP and had a 15-1 season isn't a mature leader or whatever other nonsense exists around this narrative. He was clearly pissed and unhappy. Who wouldn't be?

If anything, he delivered exactly what the media wants in that situation. Would he have been better off sitting up there delivering the same trite boilerplate about the game -- which we can all recite verbatim -- performing the same postgame kabuki we've seen countless times? Maybe. But he made the media's job easier. He gave them something to write about. Hell, he even ended the press conference sooner so those reporters could all get back to filing their stories ahead of schedule. God knows its water cooler talk today.

Last night's lack of a press conference is more a Rorschach test than anything. It merely shows what you or anyone want to see from Cam, not necessarily what the truth might be. You walk in with preconceived biases, and last night only confirmed them.

But to assume this means anything about Cam other than he hated to lose and maybe didn't like having to hear Chris Harris on the other side of the tent is pure projection.

pbarry

02-08-2016, 04:28 PM

The Times distilled it pretty well as a leadership problem for CN:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/08/sports/football/broncos-win-super-bowl-50.html?_r=0

akelman

02-08-2016, 04:47 PM

Watch the video.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/super-bowl-50-cam-newton-bails-on-press-conference-due-to-chris-harris-carolina-panthers-020816

ptourkin

02-08-2016, 04:54 PM

http://www.positivitytosuccess.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Muhammad-Ali-Quotes-5.jpg

denapista

02-08-2016, 05:05 PM

The bad thing about that play was it was a pivotal point in the super bowl. 3rd and 9. Dive on the ball and keep possession. Punt and let your defense get you the ball again. The game wasn't out of reach at that juncture. It was so obvious that Cam was defeated mentally. The same kind of play where Elway dove for the first down to win his super bowl, a qb scrambling for his life risking his body for a key first down. They all make those great plays that sacrifice their bodies. Cam isn't built that way. The Panthers were cocky all season down to not game planning for the number 1 defense they faced. Broncos beat the best two teams prior to facing the panthers. Carolina was Rousey and the Broncos won the fight with a head kick. Show some respect and humility.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

pdmtong

02-08-2016, 05:14 PM

Cam not diving on that loose ball sealed the game. Who knows if they win, but that sure sealed their loss.

That makes two gaffes in two SB for Carolina in sealing their demise.

The prior was John Casay's gift to the Patriots.
Super Bowl XXXVIII was bittersweet for Kasay. Although he converted a 50-yard field goal and made both extra points, his final kickoff went out of bounds, incurring an illegal procedure penalty that placed the ball on the 40. This assisted the New England Patriots on their drive for the winning field goal.

akelman

02-08-2016, 05:20 PM

It was so obvious that Cam was defeated mentally. The same kind of play where Elway dove for the first down to win his super bowl, a qb scrambling for his life risking his body for a key first down. They all make those great plays that sacrifice their bodies. Cam isn't built that way.

I'm not a fan of Newton's. He played for a college team I dislike. He plays for a professional team that means nothing to me. But I find myself hoping he wins the next ten Super Bowls so he can put all the armchair quarterbacks and keyboard commandos, people who claim to have some special knowledge of his talent or his psyche, in their place (which I assume is their mom's basement).

Corso

02-08-2016, 05:47 PM

Watch the video.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/super-bowl-50-cam-newton-bails-on-press-conference-due-to-chris-harris-carolina-panthers-020816

So what?

So he overheard a winner being interviewed. How many other games did guys on losing teams have to hear Superman go on and on?

Or during games, players who got beat had to endure Cams dances and dabs on the field?

The league MVP should be more professional, even in defeat.

akelman

02-08-2016, 05:58 PM

The league MVP should be more professional, even in defeat.

Like Ken Stabler? Or OJ? Or maybe Lawrence Taylor? No, wait, you mean like Manning, right? The guy who called out his linemen in defeat and walked away from his own presser?

pjm

02-08-2016, 06:02 PM

+100:beer: Farve embarrassed himself

How did Favre embarrass himself? I believe he was 8-2 with the Jets before he got injured and then took the Viqueens to the NFC championship game.

akelman

02-08-2016, 06:03 PM

As someone -- maybe Flash? -- said above: confirmation bias is a VERY powerful thing. People find data that supports their preconceptions. It happens all the time.

For my part, I hold no brief for Newton. I'm a Pats fan.* I think Brady is the GOAT. Still, it seems Newton is getting a raw deal. He didn't lose that game. The Denver defense, which was among the best I've ever seen, won it. And then the league, in its infinite wisdom, decided that Newton's presser should happen within earshot of a Denver DB giving an interview. Genius!

* I think the Pats, if they were as healthy as they were against Denver, would have completely dismantled the Panthers. But that's a story for another day, I guess.

Corso

02-08-2016, 06:33 PM

Like Ken Stabler? Or OJ? Or maybe Lawrence Taylor? No, wait, you mean like Manning, right? The guy who called out his linemen in defeat and walked away from his own presser?

Nice examples. I guess you just put Cam in good company. Thanks for that.

akelman

02-08-2016, 06:39 PM

Sick burn, bro. If you're looking for role models among the ranks of professional athletes, especially when they're in their early 20s, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.

biker72

02-08-2016, 07:17 PM

Denver won so good for them. I tend to follow individual athletes rather than a whole team.....especially since the Cowboys have done virtually nothing in the last 20 years....:D

Peyton didn't have a particularly good day but still good enough to win. I've always been a big fan of Demarcus Ware. Never did understand why Dallas cut him loose.

Congratulations Broncos!!!

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 07:24 PM

I'm not a fan of Newton's. He played for a college team I dislike. He plays for a professional team that means nothing to me. But I find myself hoping he wins the next ten Super Bowls so he can put all the armchair quarterbacks and keyboard commandos, people who claim to have some special knowledge of his talent or his psyche, in their place (which I assume is their mom's basement).

You act like it's impossible that the same guy that would call Cam out....could/would call out Brady or Manning for similar behavior. I HATE Brady, but when I saw him battle against the Broncos (getting the �� kicked out of him) and then handle his press conference the way he did....I gained a TON of respect. Yes Brady has 10 years on him, and no he probably wouldn't of handled that the same way 10 years earlier, but that doesn't excuse Cam. Cam could/should learn a lot from watching Brady's performance (both on and off the field).

Cam is the guy who has been pulling the Superman stuff all year...the lengthy over the top celebrations....dabbing everyone....etc.....telling anyone that'll listen that "they've never seen anyone like him" ....and "that he scares people"...self proclaiming himself as the future face of the NFL and the Lebron of football. You do that/raise your own profile, you put yourself and future actions under the microscope. I don't care if your white, black, young or old.

I neither live in my mom's basement nor have a 1/20th the athletic ability of Cam, but I know leadership, good sportsmanship, and representing yourself and your organization with class when faced with adversity. That wasn't it.

akelman

02-08-2016, 07:36 PM

You act like it's impossible that the same guy that would call Cam out....could/would call out Brady or Manning for similar behavior. I HATE Brady, but when I saw him battle against the Broncos (getting the ｷｷｷｷ kicked out of him) and then handle his press conference the way he did....I gained a TON of respect. Yes Brady has 10 years on him, and no he probably wouldn't of handled that the same way 10 years earlier, but that doesn't excuse Cam. Cam could/should learn a lot from watching Brady's performance (both on and off the field).

Cam is the guy who has been pulling the Superman stuff all year...the lengthy over the top celebrations....dabbing everyone....etc.....telling anyone that'll listen that "they've never seen anyone like him" ....and "that he scares people"...self proclaiming himself as the future face of the NFL and the Lebron of football. You do that/raise your own profile, you put yourself and future actions under the microscope. I don't care if your white, black, young or old.

I neither live in my mom's basement nor have a 1/20th the athletic ability of Cam, but I know leadership, good sportsmanship, and representing yourself and your organization with class when faced with adversity. That wasn't it.

Eh, he's young. And there are plenty of examples of bad sportsmanship displayed by people who turn out to be great leaders -- including Manning, of course. Like I said, I'm not fan of Newton's. But the circumstances of his press conference seem genuinely crappy to me.

As for living in my mom's basement, don't judge. It's really cozy down here.

pdmtong

02-08-2016, 07:59 PM

The sports world is littered with examples of what to do, and what not to do.

Only with rare exception do we get disasters like "the decision"

cam hurt his brand twice: first by not diving for that loose ball on top of the only Panther that could have and second by going all Kapernick with the press after the biggest game of the year.

when showtime himself calls you out better listen

pbarry

02-08-2016, 07:59 PM

Watch the video.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/super-bowl-50-cam-newton-bails-on-press-conference-due-to-chris-harris-carolina-panthers-020816

Yeah, I get it, but that presser placement is not unlike performing in front of a noisy home team while you are the guest, and, does not explain his lack of leadership on the field, or the petulant bit when he got hit out of the pocket in the EZ.

Read the Times article I linked earlier. The lack of leadership by Newton hurt the Panthers. They could have tied it up with some positive attitude. CP's coaching staff is mostly to blame tho, as they did not seem to have a plan B, (improvise, adapt, overcome), if things did not go their way.

akelman

02-08-2016, 08:06 PM

Read the Times article I linked earlier. The lack of leadership by Newton hurt the Panthers.

I read it earlier today, and I think it's a classic case of a sportswriter being a petulant jerk because a jock didn't play his appointed role. As for whether Newton's attitude hurt the Panthers, we have precisely zero idea about that. What we do know with 100% certitude is that the Denver defenders, and a brilliant game plan cooked up by Wade Phillips, hurt them.

Anyhow, I'm not that invested in this. I truly don't care about Newton one way or the other. I was just a bit surprised today to see a bunch of people eager to call him a dog. But I guess I shouldn't have been. Like I said above: confirmation bias is a helluva drug.

FlashUNC

02-08-2016, 08:12 PM

Cam could/should learn a lot from watching Brady's performance (both on and off the field).

Whoa whoa whoa. Cam didn't dump the girlfriend who just had his kid, like Terrific Tommy.

firerescuefin

02-08-2016, 08:12 PM

akelman

02-08-2016, 08:16 PM

That cuts both ways....

Absolutely! But I went into today not liking the guy -- or at least not caring about him one way or the other -- so I think I'm relatively immune. Again, I'm a die-hard Patriots fan, the scum of the earth.

pbarry

02-08-2016, 08:18 PM

I read it earlier today, and I think it's a classic case of a sportswriter being a petulant jerk because a jock didn't play his appointed role. As for whether Newton's attitude hurt the Panthers, we have precisely zero idea about that. What we do know with 100% certitude is that the Denver defenders, and a brilliant game plan cooked up by Wade Phillips, hurt them.

Anyhow, I'm not that invested in this. I truly don't care about Newton one way or the other. I was just a bit surprised today to see a bunch of people eager to call him a dog. But I guess I shouldn't have been. Like I said above: confirmation bias is a helluva drug.

Ari, I always appreciate your posts. There was some really weak behavior from Newton during and after the game, JMO, and I won't be lumped into the "confirmation bias" stripe, (not that you suggested that personally). I had never seen Newton play until yesterday, and seriously thought Denver would lose badly.

Suggesting confirmation bias is a weak defense , when the subject has exhibited less than admirable behavior. It's an attempt to disarm any argument or criticism with the suggestion of bias. Anyone who disagrees can be painted with that brush, right?

akelman

02-08-2016, 08:22 PM

Ari, I always appreciate your posts. There was some really weak behavior from Newton during and after the game, JMO, and I won't be lumped into the "confirmation bias" stripe, (not that you suggested that personally). I had never seen Newton play until yesterday, and seriously thought Denver would lose badly.

Suggesting confirmation bias is a weak defense , when the subject has exhibited less than admirable behavior. It's an attempt to disarm any argument or criticism with the suggestion of bias. Anyone who disagrees can be painted with that brush, right?

This is entirely fair. Thanks for saying something. And to be clear, I'm not singling you out. In fact, I think Newton didn't behave as he would have in an ideal world. I just think there's an explanation that has nothing whatsoever to do with his flawed character or subpar leadership abilities.

akelman

02-08-2016, 08:26 PM

And now I'm going to watch some crappy TV. The reception in mom's basement isn't great, but at least she brings me snacks. Good night, all!

pdmtong

02-08-2016, 09:01 PM

Absolutely! But I went into today not liking the guy -- or at least not caring about him one way or the other -- so I think I'm relatively immune. Again, I'm a die-hard Patriots fan, the scum of the earth.

You know that Woodson caused a fumble and if not for the zebras creating the tuck rule the raiders probably won that super bowl as well as the next 2-3. Gruden stays put. Giselle stays wth Leo. Brady doesn't become the GOAT.

All because of the Tuck Rule.

My team is involved in more plays with names than any other team in the league. Immaculate Reception. Etc.

beeatnik

02-08-2016, 11:28 PM

You know that Woodson caused a fumble and if not for the zebras creating the tuck rule the raiders probably won that super bowl as well as the next 2-3. Gruden stays put. Giselle stays wth Leo. Brady doesn't become the GOAT.

All because of the Tuck Rule.

My team is involved in more plays with names than any other team in the league. Immaculate Reception. Etc.

Truth.

pdmtong, I love your Silver and Black style.

pdmtong

02-08-2016, 11:36 PM

Truth.
pdmtong, I love your Silver and Black style.

Born in Oakland. Waddya expect. My mom grew up in a victorian in West Oakland near the BART station/USPS building at a time when there was no threat of a drive by. Nowadays I wouldn't go down there in broad daylight.

The Autumn Wind coughed up 4 games they should have won. Which would make them 11-5 and in the playoffs. They are a few players away from seriously challenging but at least the finale is not a forgone conclusion from the opening kickoff.

oh, and while on the subject of bay area gifts to Boston, let us not forget the warriors trading Parrish and the pick that became mchale to the Celtics. Add Larry and dynasty created. It still blows my mind that GSW is the toast of the league after all these years in the dumpster.

jlwdm

02-08-2016, 11:40 PM

As someon

* I think the Pats, if they were as healthy as they were against Denver, would have completely dismantled the Panthers. But that's a story for another day, I guess.

I like the Pats and totally disagree with this. NE has a lot of weaknesses and were not strong enough to win the Superbowl this year.

Jeff

jlwdm

02-08-2016, 11:46 PM

Whoa whoa whoa. Cam didn't dump the girlfriend who just had his kid, like Terrific Tommy.

Tom and his girlfriend broke up before they knew she was pregnant. Hard to call that dumping the girlfriend who just had his kid.

Jeff

firerescuefin

02-09-2016, 04:25 AM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BTcNTk30dKk

Bruce K

02-09-2016, 05:20 AM

What jlwdm said.

Plus, Brady continues to be involved in the kids life. He has never sought an out on his responsibility.

BK

rwsaunders

02-09-2016, 08:27 AM

Truth.

pdmtong, I love your Silver and Black style.

I'll have to keep my eyes on you two Stickum infused Raiders fans. :cool:

rugbysecondrow

02-09-2016, 09:16 AM

his posing and antics are very off-putting to me

that said, everyone views the plays in slow motion and applies hindsight expectations of REALTIME decisions, but within that slow motion view.

Watching something in slo-mo, you "see" an opportunity to react that isn't really there. in real time, it looked like his teammate was on it. Wrong choice, but watching it real time it doesn't seem nearly as studied a decision as slow motion analyzers make it seem (to me anyway)

I said the same thing in real time. He looked confused, out of his element and then defeated. I can't remember NOT seeing a QB dive on the ball. He flinched and backed away...you cant do that.

Cam's behavior is being scrutinized under the spotlight because he was so-over-the-top with his pre-game self-adulation and arrogance. Warming up on the field with the superman under layer, strutting around the field with gold MVP cleats, and the pre-game interviews inferring he didn't want to be compared to great QBs of the past, since he, himself, is redefining what a great QB is. His post-game behavior was that of someone who has some emotional growing-up to do, in my opinion. He is a great athlete and arguably a great QB. If he can grasp the concept of being humble, learn to give credit to others, and willingly, as the leader of his team, accept blame, even when it's not his fault, directly, he might then, and only then, get his wish and redefine the "Great QB" category.

I adopted Carolina as a team this year, so I was rooting for them. Cam has played well all season, and I agreed with his "stop me if you can" statements. Don't be mad at Carolina, stop them. When somebody does stop you, you need to own it and be professional. That is the big problem. Don't talk �� and gloat, then back away and pout when somebody bests you. Folks can blame the Chris Harris interview, but Cam sulked out to the podium, hoodie up, and was unprofessional from the beginning. Can you imagine how much people would respect Cam if he gave a professional interview WITH Chris Harris in the background?

He had a great season, he deserved the MVP, no doubt a great talent, but he needed to manage his image better as that is his real meal ticket.

Ray

02-09-2016, 09:36 AM

I adopted Carolina as a team this year, so I was rooting for them. Cam has played well all season, and I agreed with his "stop me if you can" statements. Don't be mad at Carolina, stop them. When somebody does stop you, you need to own it and be professional. That is the big problem. Don't talk ｷｷｷｷ and gloat, then back away and pout when somebody bests you. Folks can blame the Chris Harris interview, but Cam sulked out to the podium, hoodie up, and was unprofessional from the beginning. Can you imagine how much people would respect Cam if he gave a professional interview WITH Chris Harris in the background?

He had a great season, he deserved the MVP, no doubt a great talent, but he needed to manage his image better as that is his real meal ticket.

Agree COMPLETELY.

I didn't adopt Carolina until the Eagles were out of it, which realistically was really early but mathematically not until game 15. But I thought they were the best of the playoff teams and were ABSOLUTELY the most entertaining team left to watch (Green Bay a close second - Aaron Rodgers is more fun to watch than damn near anyone ever). I liked Cam, liked him a lot. Never bought any of the criticism about his celebrations and long press conferences after victories. He's cocky but he delivered - he had a right to be cocky. Like Ali back in the day...

But Cam spit the bit toward the end of this game and after. I thought he played hard and not badly, considering the pressure he was under, for most of the game. But then toward the end, the frustration was more than he could handle.

You absolutely HAVE to go after that fumble HARD - you can't back away. Even if that's what you've been taught to do as an all-world QB so you don't get hurt - your football instinct has to take over when it's the last chance in a Super Bowl! When you get hit in the end zone arguably a little bit late and don't get a flag, you don't cry to the ref, at least not as obviously as he did - maybe you say something to him under your breath when you get up. And if you're gonna be cocky and eloquent and talk forever after a win, you've gotta man up after a loss. Come out in your nice suit, not a hoody and game pants, and do your time under the lights. Answer the damn questions. Let your frustration and pain show, but by speaking about it and acknowledging it - not by hiding in your hoodie and pouting.

No confirmation bias here. I was rooting for him, rooting HARD. I wanted him to kick Denver's ass and celebrate all day. But it didn't happen. And he handled it really badly. A real black mark. He's got a whole career to get it right and I hope he does. He's got crazy talent and had held up under some tough games this year. But Denver's defense got the better of him. He got punched in the mouth and didn't respond well. If he's gonna live up to his talent and the accolades he's earned, he's gonna have to act like a man. I hope he gets it right - he's got everything going for him. I'm still in his corner, but he lost some respect Sunday night and it's up to him to earn it back...

-Ray

FlashUNC

02-09-2016, 09:39 AM

firerescuefin

02-09-2016, 09:42 AM

FlashUNC

02-09-2016, 10:05 AM

Yeah it was poor sportsmanship.....Don't see how that excuses Cam's behavior. I have not seen a single person on here condone Peyton's behavior. I wouldn't use Peyton's behavior to excuse Cam's, anymore than I used a child that acted out in a classroom as justification for my own doing the same.

Have no idea where you're trying to take this.

One caused a 24 hour firestorm of pearl clutching that's still on-going. The other was a footnote to a broader game story. One was used a cudgel to impugn one player's "professionalism" and "leadership" while the other was chalked up to his general "competitiveness getting the best of him."

Both are bad acts, but neither is an indictment or larger indication of the person. Cam did a dumb thing. Peyton did a dumb thing.

Folks seems way too eager to excuse one and get rather righteous about the other.

akelman

02-09-2016, 10:05 AM

Have no idea where you're trying to take this.

He's talking about race and respectability politics, I'm pretty sure. Regardless, I think there are several arguments happening here at once. I'd sum them up like this:

1) Newton acted unprofessionally during the game. I have no clear thoughts about this. I don't know why he didn't dive for the fumble. Has he commented yet? I sort of wonder if he thought his arm was moving forward. Still, he should have tried to recover the ball. I don't think anyone would dispute this, but maybe I'm wrong.

2) Newton acted unprofessionally after the game. This seems slightly more controversial to me. As I've said several times, I think there were mitigating circumstances. Nevertheless, I think his performance at the presser was sub-optimal. It would have been better if he had stood up to scrutiny, even with a member of the opposition talking smack nearby. In the end, though, I think there will be reasonable disagreements about this issue (disagreements that, in many but not all cases, will be shaped by people's cultural positioning).

3) From 1 and 2 we learn that Newton isn't a leader / has a flawed character / lacks the essentials to manage in the big leagues. This strikes me as nonsense. There are a lot of different kinds of leaders. We have no idea what kind of leadership the Carolina players want (though we can certainly guess that the Panthers, like every NFL team, are probably divided, and that those divisions, whether between offense and defense, young and old, white and black, or along any number of other axes, will have an impact on the kinds of leaders the various members of the team do or don't want). It seems to me that this is the statement that is most obviously controversial and likely to be informed by confirmation bias and racial attitudes.

4) Newton hurt his brand Sunday evening. I think there's pretty clearly some truth to this, but I also think that race and respectability politics (and confirmation bias) will play in how people view the issue. Nevertheless, there's no doubt that he came out of that game and his post-game presser a less appealing figure for most people here than he went into it.

Maybe there are other arguments as well. I have no idea. But 1-4 above are the ones that I'm seeing people talking about here and elsewhere. And I think it's worth considering that there are different, albeit intertwined, issues at stake in the conversation.

Ray

02-09-2016, 10:08 AM

One caused a 24 hour firestorm of pearl clutching that's still on-going. The other was a footnote to a broader game story. One was used a cudgel to impugn one player's "professionalism" and "leadership" while the other was chalked up to his general "competitiveness getting the best of him."

Both are bad acts, but neither is an indictment or larger indication of the person. Cam did a dumb thing. Peyton did a dumb thing.

Folks seems way too eager to excuse one and get rather righteous about the other.

Well, part of that might be that Peyton had already won a Super Bowl and was ALREADY a consensus Hall of Famer who'd shown a ton of class throughout before that - he'd lost a few AFC playoff games and manned-up pretty well, no? So it was seen as more of a blip. Cam hasn't done nearly as much yet - this was his first real big moment and he blew it. If he'd already established his rep as much as Peyton had by the time he lost to the Saints, he'd have probably gotten the benefit of the doubt too.

-Ray

rugbysecondrow

02-09-2016, 10:17 AM

So everyone must have been equally outraged when Peyton left the field early against the Saints, not congratulating the other team and instead stomping off to pout?

Surely that's a bigger transgression -- explicit poor sportsmanship -- than not answering some pat questions from strangers.

It might be because it happened 5 years ago.

If you are going to keep bringing this up, you should know that Manning called Brees to congratulate him on the phone that night. He also congratulated them during his press conference.

How Manning chose to congratulate another person might be questionable for you, but the press conference is a legitimate, professional obligation. He gets paid a lot of money to be the face of the league, the face of the Panthers. If he doesn't like that responsibility (ala Marshawn Lynch) then maybe he should ignore the endorsements and other press coverage which comes his way. Publicity cuts both ways.

Cam says he looks up to Michael Jordan. What would Jordan do? MJ would take a shower, put on his suit, and go be a professional at the press conference. There is a reason Jordan is revered to this day, even though he has some personal flaws.

Well, part of that might be that Peyton had already won a Super Bowl and was ALREADY a consensus Hall of Famer who'd shown a ton of class throughout before that - he'd lost a few AFC playoff games and manned-up pretty well, no? So it was seen as more of a blip. Cam hasn't done nearly as much yet - this was his first real big moment and he blew it. If he'd already established his rep as much as Peyton had by the time he lost to the Saints, he'd have probably gotten the benefit of the doubt too.

-Ray
I would take it further and say that Cam courted all this attention. You can't ask people to look at you, to pay attention to you, then decide you want to not be seen.

FlashUNC

02-09-2016, 10:24 AM

It might be because it happened 5 years ago.

If you are going to keep bringing this up, you should know that Manning called Brees to congratulate him on the phone that night. He also congratulated them during his press conference.

How Manning chose to congratulate another person might be questionable for you, but the press conference is a legitimate, professional obligation. He gets paid a lot of money to be the face of the league, the face of the Panthers. If he doesn't like that responsibility (ala Marshawn Lynch) then maybe he should ignore the endorsements and other press coverage which comes his way. Publicity cuts both ways.

Cam says he looks up to Michael Jordan. What would Jordan do? MJ would take a shower, put on his suit, and go be a professional at the press conference. There is a reason Jordan is revered to this day, even though he has some personal flaws.

I'm talking about at the time, obviously. No need to be obtuse about it to try to downplay my point.

Last I checked Cam met his professional obligation. Sat up there, said what he had to say, and left.

Because he didn't do the right kabuki act in public is what has people up in arms. He didn't do the pro forma. Gosh, he had an honest, real moment there. He's being pilloried for not doing literally what we all complain about -- these guys always give the same answers, never say anything interesting, never feel honest and candid.

Well, he was. And he's getting raked over the coals for it with ludicrous claims that somehow this means he's less capable of running a football team.

Why even bother with the performance of it at all if any deviation from this proscribed script brings up this kind of reaction?

soulspinner

02-09-2016, 10:37 AM

300 plus hours between championship weekend and Superbowl. Less dabbin more film.............

rugbysecondrow

02-09-2016, 10:48 AM

You are purposefully asking an obtuse, hence the answer.

They are different people, who use the media differently, who have reputations made in different ways.

I used the example before of Marshawn Lynch. He could have done the same this as Cam and nobody would flinch. It is his persona. He has this rep as being "beastmode", surly with the media, complaining about it being a waste of time. It ain't his game. He has even gotten a commercial with that being part of the pun.

Cam is the opposite. He not only courts the media, but then uses it to his advantage in crafting this image of himself. He is selling Cam. He is wanting an image of a role model. Some might think it is silly, but kids like Cam. That is why this unprofessional behavior matters. He has asked for his behavior to matter.

I don't think it is a moral issue or a deep character flaw, but it was a significant enough mistake. People are talking about him and not about the great 15-1 season they had. More people probably know about this than the MVP award he was given. That is his fault.

I'm talking about at the time, obviously. No need to be obtuse about it to try to downplay my point.

Last I checked Cam met his professional obligation. Sat up there, said what he had to say, and left.

Because he didn't do the right kabuki act in public is what has people up in arms. He didn't do the pro forma. Gosh, he had an honest, real moment there. He's being pilloried for not doing literally what we all complain about -- these guys always give the same answers, never say anything interesting, never feel honest and candid.

Well, he was. And he's getting raked over the coals for it with ludicrous claims that somehow this means he's less capable of running a football team.

Why even bother with the performance of it at all if any deviation from this proscribed script brings up this kind of reaction?

FlashUNC

02-09-2016, 11:05 AM

You are purposefully asking an obtuse, hence the answer.

They are different people, who use the media differently, who have reputations made in different ways.

I used the example before of Marshawn Lynch. He could have done the same this as Cam and nobody would flinch. It is his persona. He has this rep as being "beastmode", surly with the media, complaining about it being a waste of time. It ain't his game. He has even gotten a commercial with that being part of the pun.

Cam is the opposite. He not only courts the media, but then uses it to his advantage in crafting this image of himself. He is selling Cam. He is wanting an image of a role model. Some might think it is silly, but kids like Cam. That is why this unprofessional behavior matters. He has asked for his behavior to matter.

I don't think it is a moral issue or a deep character flaw, but it was a significant enough mistake. People are talking about him and not about the great 15-1 season they had. More people probably know about this than the MVP award he was given. That is his fault.

Its a straight forward question. Why is this a firestorm and Peyton's arguably larger meltdown at the Super Bowl six years ago a non-issue when it happened?

Did you see the Super Bowl last year and the build up with Marshawn refusing to talk to the media? Nobody brushed that off. It was the same cycle of pearl clutching and "won't someone think of the children" nonsense. If anything, it was worse because that's all anyone talked about for a month leading up to the game.

I guarantee there isn't a 10 year old out there in a Cam Newton jersey who gives a crap how he handled a post-game press conference. Because no 10 year old cares about press conferences.

rugbysecondrow

02-09-2016, 11:38 AM

Its a straight forward question. Why is this a firestorm and Peyton's arguably larger meltdown at the Super Bowl six years ago a non-issue when it happened?

Did you see the Super Bowl last year and the build up with Marshawn refusing to talk to the media? Nobody brushed that off. It was the same cycle of pearl clutching and "won't someone think of the children" nonsense. If anything, it was worse because that's all anyone talked about for a month leading up to the game.

I guarantee there isn't a 10 year old out there in a Cam Newton jersey who gives a crap how he handled a post-game press conference. Because no 10 year old cares about press conferences.

Your question has been asked and answered, but you continue to ask the same question again, and again, and again. You can choose to not accept or disagree with the answer, but repeating the question won't net a different response.

You are remembering the Lynch scenario differently than I.

10 year olds don't buy jerseys, parents and grand parents do. They care about professionalism.

Will this impact his football career? Nope. Did it help his reputation? Nope. Will it impact endorsements? Probably. Should it have been avoided? Yep. Could he have handled it better? Yep.

Ray

02-09-2016, 01:02 PM

Did you see the Super Bowl last year and the build up with Marshawn refusing to talk to the media? Nobody brushed that off. It was the same cycle of pearl clutching and "won't someone think of the children" nonsense. If anything, it was worse because that's all anyone talked about for a month leading up to the game.

I don't and didn't have any problem with the Beast. He was a surly SOB with the press win, lose, or draw. A lot like Belicheck. It doesn't inspire love but it doesn't inspire hate either. When someone is just who they are good or bad, win or lose, no problem. When someone expects all the attention and adulation when they win but can't face the music when they lose, that's a different thing. That's why I think this has gotten so much attention.

I'm usually the LAST person to have an opinion about how an athlete handles himself in front of the bright lights. But this one got my attention and I had an immediate visceral reaction that he was handling it incredibly badly - it's not a reaction I wanted to have about Cam because I really like him, but I had it anyway.

It was a major jerk move. I don't think it defines him as a human being, I don't think it's his last act, I don't think it's a major character flaw. It was a really bad moment by a guy who still seems to have some growing up to do. I hope he does, I trust he will, etc. But he blew it. Black or white, young or old, conservative or liberal, Christian or Muslim or Atheist - he just blew it...

EDIT - just heard a soundbite from Cam doubling down. He said, more or less, "I've always said I'm a sore loser. I hate to lose so yeah, I'm a sore loser. You show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser". Now THAT I like. Own it. Use it for motivation. I don't AGREE with him - I think it's possible to learn how to handle losing without that making you a loser. You're gonna lose some battles in life and you have to learn to deal with it. Too many other winners out there who deal with losing reasonably well. But still, I respect his standing up for what he did and not apologizing for it. Again, just a visceral reaction - I can't necessarily defend it, but I have to acknowledge it...

-Ray

FlashUNC

02-13-2016, 10:35 AM

So, uh, Peyton has a problem, namely a sexual assault and cover-up while still in college:

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-peyton-manning-squeaky-clean-image-built-lies-article-1.2530395?cid=bitly

malcolm

02-13-2016, 11:21 AM

One caused a 24 hour firestorm of pearl clutching that's still on-going. The other was a footnote to a broader game story. One was used a cudgel to impugn one player's "professionalism" and "leadership" while the other was chalked up to his general "competitiveness getting the best of him."

Both are bad acts, but neither is an indictment or larger indication of the person. Cam did a dumb thing. Peyton did a dumb thing.

Folks seems way too eager to excuse one and get rather righteous about the other.

First off I'm a Cam fan and will be giving him a pass on this one. Secondly I'm a manning fan so maybe disregard everything I say.

I think the biggest difference is Peyton never talked the smack Cam did. When you talk all that crap and then act like a spoiled kid when you lose I think it's going to create more uproar, simple as that.

I like Cam but his behavior didn't help him as I've said before he's young and a tremendous athlete. I would love to see his behavior in defeat match that in victory or maybe he'll just never lose again and it won't be an issue.

djg21

02-13-2016, 11:41 AM

First off I'm a Cam fan and will be giving him a pass on this one. Secondly I'm a manning fan so maybe disregard everything I say.

I think the biggest difference is Peyton never talked the smack Cam did. When you talk all that crap and then act like a spoiled kid when you lose I think it's going to create more uproar, simple as that.

I like Cam but his behavior didn't help him as I've said before he's young and a tremendous athlete. I would love to see his behavior in defeat match that in victory or maybe he'll just never lose again and it won't be an issue.

It is now being reported in a scathing article in the Daily News, based on old court documents, that Peyton's squeaky clean image is undeserved and that he was a self-entitled p*%^# (if not sexual predator) while at the University of Tennessee.

Thirteen years ago, USA Today obtained 74 pages of explosive court documents on Peyton Manning, Archie Manning, the University of Tennessee, and Florida Southern College that revealed allegations of a sexual-assault scandal, cover up, and smear campaign of the victim that was so deep, so widespread and so ugly that it would've rocked the American sports world to its core. Yet USA Today never released those documents for reasons I can't explain.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-peyton-manning-squeaky-clean-image-built-lies-article-1.2530395

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2616353-peyton-manning-sexual-assault-cover-up-alleged-in-new-york-daily-news-report

This sounds credible. It will be interesting to see if there is any further fallout.

malcolm

02-13-2016, 12:32 PM

It is now being reported in a scathing article in the Daily News, based on old court documents, that Peyton's squeaky clean image is undeserved and that he was a self-entitled p*%^# (if not sexual predator) while at the University of Tennessee.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-peyton-manning-squeaky-clean-image-built-lies-article-1.2530395

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2616353-peyton-manning-sexual-assault-cover-up-alleged-in-new-york-daily-news-report

This sounds credible. It will be interesting to see if there is any further fallout.

Irrelevant in respect to my statement. No matter who he is proven to be he presented a different image from Cam and his image is more likely to receive a pass than the image Cam portrayed.

Hopefully none of this proves to be true as in general I'm a fan of the manning family.
I would not however be surprised if it's all true. We take athletes, particularly football players at least in the us and treat them from an early age as if they are above the law then act surprised when they act like it.

jlwdm

02-13-2016, 12:34 PM

Really, really old news.

Jeff

makoti

02-13-2016, 12:40 PM

Really, really old news.

Jeff

You knew about this? First I'd heard of it.

djg21

02-13-2016, 01:07 PM

Irrelevant in respect to my statement. No matter who he is proven to be he presented a different image from Cam and his image is more likely to receive a pass than the image Cam portrayed.

Hopefully none of this proves to be true as in general I'm a fan of the manning family.
I would not however be surprised if it's all true. We take athletes, particularly football players at least in the us and treat them from an early age as if they are above the law then act surprised when they act like it.

Didn't mean to suggest it was directly relevant to your post. I agree entirely with you about the self-entitlement of athletes who are coddled and treated as being above the law.

makoti

02-13-2016, 01:40 PM

Really, really old news.

Jeff

Seems you're right.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/13/release-of-13-year-old-court-document-dusts-off-peyton-manning-incident-at-tennessee/

I need to get out more.

oldpotatoe

02-13-2016, 01:54 PM

FlashUNC

02-13-2016, 02:12 PM

No he doesn't, long time ago and into the realm of tabloid reporting.

So covering up a sexual assault is okay? Burying it for nigh on 15 years is fine? Lying about it in a biography is acceptable?

The public record documents are there in the report. If anything, they're more damning than the Daily News' report itself.

pbarry

02-13-2016, 02:23 PM

That is pretty sordid and despicable behavior. There were two incidents, then coverup, and the dismissal of the victim from two jobs because of this. Amazing.

gdw

02-13-2016, 02:42 PM

1. Another ______doesn't appear to live up to the image that he's crafted for the masses.......shocking.

A. Athlete
B. Politician
C. Celebrity

FlashUNC

02-13-2016, 02:42 PM

That is pretty sordid and despicable behavior. There were two incidents, then coverup, and the dismissal of the victim from two jobs because of this. Amazing.

Never mind they seem to be pulling from the same playbook if the stories about private detectives now hounding the sources for the HGH story are true.

djg21

02-13-2016, 02:45 PM

So covering up a sexual assault is okay? Burying it for nigh on 15 years is fine? Lying about it in a biography is acceptable?

The public record documents are there in the report. If anything, they're more damning than the Daily News' report itself.

In fairness, the Daily News cites to a statement of material fact submitted by a plaintiff's attorneys during an adversarial proceeding. These facts were not necessarily proven to be true. There appear to have been at least a couple of witnesses who were prepared to testify adversely to Peyton, but the case was settled before trial. There was also a settlement of some sort of the libel suit brought by the alleged sexual assault victim against the Mannings.

mgm777

02-13-2016, 04:04 PM

In fairness, the Daily News cites to a statement of material fact submitted by a plaintiff's attorneys during an adversarial proceeding. These facts were not necessarily proven to be true. There appear to have been at least a couple of witnesses who were prepared to testify adversely to Peyton, but the case was settled before trial. There was also a settlement of some sort of the libel suit brought by the alleged sexual assault victim against the Mannings.

^Exactly! The "74 page document" is an admittedly biased document, written by the plaintiff's lawyers, designed solely to win a lawsuit against Peyton and his father. It has not been proven to be entirely factual. We don't know what was fact and what was fiction. The case was settled.

FlashUNC

02-13-2016, 09:06 PM

Because innocent people settle cases to avoid discovery and depositions. Sure.

rugbysecondrow

02-16-2016, 09:25 AM

Because innocent people settle cases to avoid discovery and depositions. Sure.

Manning is at the end of a VERY profitable NFL career. Now ask if an innocent (or guilty) person would settle to avoid this process and possibly impact an NFL career. He had every reason to settle and nothing to gain by not settling, even if he was innocent.

I suspect the truth is something more than Manning says and something less than the trainers recollection. This is a 20+ year old allegation, so I am not inclined to get worked up about this, any more than I am Cam's earlier arrest and cheating at Florida State (which lead to his departure).

oldpotatoe

02-16-2016, 10:05 AM

^Exactly! The "74 page document" is an admittedly biased document, written by the plaintiff's lawyers, designed solely to win a lawsuit against Peyton and his father. It has not been proven to be entirely factual. We don't know what was fact and what was fiction. The case was settled.

Grazie, asked and answered. Not a Manning family fan-boy but many people's 'filters' when they read this stuff predisposes their opinion.

"I read it-GUILTY!"

"I read it-INNOCENT!"

"I read it, don't care!!"

oldpotatoe

02-16-2016, 10:08 AM

Because innocent people settle cases to avoid discovery and depositions. Sure.

Sometimes innocent people settle because bringing this stuff to court costs a lot in terms of $$$ and time. In this litigious society sometimes the path of least resistance is to settle. 'Settling does not equal guilt in a lot of cases.'

Again, not a fan boy of Manning nor his family. BUT in 2 weeks nobody will even remember this, particularly when he announces his retirement.

Climb01742

02-16-2016, 10:17 AM

The Federal Title IX lawsuit means this won't just fade away, even if PM retires.

Perhaps a name will become a verb, as in Manning 'Lance Armstrong-ed' the trainer. The lengths the Mannings went to discredit her, and the fact they did it twice, is not only sleazy and disgusting, it also makes you wonder, like Lance, why devote so much effort and time to crushing someone's life and career if you have nothing to hide? He and Archie broke a sealed settlement to defame her again.

One benefit of the Federal suit is, this will be adjudicated in a court, with sworn testimony one hopes, not just adjudicated on TV, online and in print.

FlashUNC

02-16-2016, 10:19 AM

Sometimes innocent people settle because bringing this stuff to court costs a lot in terms of $$$ and time. In this litigious society sometimes the path of least resistance is to settle. 'Settling does not equal guilt in a lot of cases.'

Again, not a fan boy of Manning nor his family. BUT in 2 weeks nobody will even remember this, particularly when he announces his retirement.

Between shouting Budweiser and hugging Papa John at every opportunity, methinks Peyton has enough cash to fight whatever claims someone has against him.

Settling doesn't equal guilt, but if you have allegations of sexual assault, libel and essentially ruining someone's career to cover all that up, wouldn't you rather fight to clear your good name, than settle and pretend it all goes away? I can see settling if he's strapped for cash and a prolonged legal fight is not in his best interests, he's clearly got more resources at his disposal than she does. Time and money are on his side if they take it to court.

Which is why I come back to the idea that he really doesn't want depositions and discovery to happen. Just cut a big check and hope it all goes away rather than open Pandora's Box.

And you're mostly right. I think a lot of folks will forget it about it. But between the HGH and now this resurfacing, I doubt you'll see Peyton on the field again.

firerescuefin

02-16-2016, 10:50 PM

Huge Broncos fan.... (Was) huge Manning fan.

Actually read up on this quite a bit. Manning did what he was accused of IMO (seems hard to believe otherwise)....then after settling with woman, decided to drag her name through the mud again after publishing a book along with her dad. Very Lance like move. Makes me question the HgH stuff much more than I did before.

My oldest (7) has a Manning jersey. He's/We're done with it. He and I spoke about it this evening. He gets why we're getting a new jersey.

Between shouting Budweiser and hugging Papa John at every opportunity, methinks Peyton has enough cash to fight whatever claims someone has against him.

Settling doesn't equal guilt, but if you have allegations of sexual assault, libel and essentially ruining someone's career to cover all that up, wouldn't you rather fight to clear your good name, than settle and pretend it all goes away? I can see settling if he's strapped for cash and a prolonged legal fight is not in his best interests, he's clearly got more resources at his disposal than she does. Time and money are on his side if they take it to court.

Which is why I come back to the idea that he really doesn't want depositions and discovery to happen. Just cut a big check and hope it all goes away rather than open Pandora's Box.

And you're mostly right. I think a lot of folks will forget it about it. But between the HGH and now this resurfacing, I doubt you'll see Peyton on the field again.

FlashUNC

02-16-2016, 10:52 PM

malcolm

02-17-2016, 09:22 AM

Fingers crossed Von Miller doesn't have any skeletons in his closet.

We all have skeletons. Very few of us would welcome a light shined in every corner of our life. We usually don't have the fame or fortune to effe up this big. We create these larger than life personas and allow them to operate under different rules then when for whatever reason when enough is enough we are all shocked.

I hope it's not true. I've always been a manning fan going back to when he was with the saints. I'm not naive however and I suspect I'll be in rugby's camp before long on this one.

FlashUNC

02-17-2016, 09:47 AM

We all have skeletons. Very few of us would welcome a light shined in every corner of our life.

Skeletons are one thing. Being accused of sexual assault by, essentially, a co-worker is a whole different kettle of beans. And harassing the accuser after the fact. And committing libel about it in a book.

And none of us are out there doing commercials or SNL with this "aw shucks" public persona that's been crafted, mostly to reap more dollars through paid endorsements. I'll agree life is different in the public arena, but if you put yourself out there as some sort of wholesome dude, don't be shocked when the skeletons that are in the closet bubble up to the surface.

Tony T

02-17-2016, 10:02 AM

Settling doesn't equal guilt, but if you have allegations of sexual assault, libel and essentially ruining someone's career to cover all that up, wouldn't you rather fight to clear your good name, than settle and pretend it all goes away?

Uh, no. That's like saying that if a defendant doesn't take the stand that its an admission of guilt — it's not.

(I'm making a general statement and it has nothing to do with the case being discussed)

djg21

02-17-2016, 10:05 AM

Because innocent people settle cases to avoid discovery and depositions. Sure.

The reality is that yes they do. Settlement often is a business decision made after weighing the cost of ongoing litigation, the risk of an adverse decision, and the impact that an adverse decision and judgment might have both in terms of money damages and impingement of future prospects. The only reason we're hearing about this is because one side or the other breached a non-disclosure agreement.

Manning was 19 at the time of the underlying incident. It's no excuse, but 19 year old kids do stupid things they come to regret later in life. I was more offended that Peyton's denials and sullying of the Whited's reputation seemed to be directed by Archie, who was neither a kid nor a very good quarterback.

malcolm

02-17-2016, 10:11 AM

Skeletons are one thing. Being accused of sexual assault by, essentially, a co-worker is a whole different kettle of beans. And harassing the accuser after the fact. And committing libel about it in a book.

And none of us are out there doing commercials or SNL with this "aw shucks" public persona that's been crafted, mostly to reap more dollars through paid endorsements. I'll agree life is different in the public arena, but if you put yourself out there as some sort of wholesome dude, don't be shocked when the skeletons that are in the closet bubble up to the surface.

reread my post you just agreed with me or at least that's what I was trying to say. We create these guys by letting them get away with most everything all their life then act shocked when they are not what they are presented to be.
Treat someone as if they are above the law long enough and they begin to believe it or at least act like it.
I've not read the evidence because while it may not seem it from my responses I just don't really care, but I've not seen sexual abuse proven, but also won't be surprised if all the evidence reaches light of day when/if it is.

firerescuefin

02-17-2016, 10:12 AM

The reality is that yes they do. Settlement often is a business decision made after weighing the cost of ongoing litigation, the risk of an adverse decision, and the impact that an adverse decision and judgment might have both in terms of money damages and impingement of future prospects. The only reason we're hearing about this is because one side or the other breached a non-disclosure agreement.

Manning was 19 at the time of the underlying incident. It's no excuse, but 19 year old kids do stupid things they come to regret later in life. I was more offended that the Peyton's denials and sullying of the Whited's reputation seemed to be directed by Archie, who was neither a kid nor a very good quarterback.

This^ ...can't get past it. He very deliberately bullied her (after violating her) because he could. Indefensible IMO.

soulspinner

02-17-2016, 10:26 AM

Manning is at the end of a VERY profitable NFL career. Now ask if an innocent (or guilty) person would settle to avoid this process and possibly impact an NFL career. He had every reason to settle and nothing to gain by not settling, even if he was innocent.

I suspect the truth is something more than Manning says and something less than the trainers recollection. This is a 20+ year old allegation, so I am not inclined to get worked up about this, any more than I am Cam's earlier arrest and cheating at Florida State (which lead to his departure).

Yup. 20 years old and everything Ive seen of the teabagging and harrassing Ive seen done to men in locker rooms too(and worse). I havent seen the court docs of his side and although Im a Bronco fan I think a lot more of Teebow than Manning as a person and never deluded myself he was a saint. What happened afterward, smearing her, was worse IMHO.

93legendti

02-17-2016, 10:55 AM

"The defamation suit was settled in 2003 but terms were not disclosed."
I read the article quickly, so I am not sure if there was another suit or claims. If the claim of sexual assault had any legs, any Plaintiff attorney worth his/her salt would have added the count. Leaving it out says more about the Plaintiff than Manning.

Anyone claiming this settlement supports their position via a vis Manning being a bad guy/acknowledging guilt or liability is tying themselves into a pretzel.

The settlement could have been anywhere from $0 (I've seen it) to $1 billion.

A settlement is a settlement. Nothing more, nothing less. Without lie detectors strapped to all the parties and their lawyers and asking them why they settled, we will never know and we should never know.

The system encourages settlements and for that reason no guilt/liability is attached. Judges tell parties everyday that it is better to settle than allow people you don't know to decide your case.

One could easily claim the Plaintiff settling is proof she was seeking to profit from Manning's wealth; that if it wasn't about $ she would have sought her day in Court.

The fact is the parties decided to end the case, rather than allow a finder of fact to decide the case. That is ALL one can rationally infer from the settlement.

Anything else is guessing based upon bias.