Groupset Gossip from the World Tour

[oldpotatoe]

Nothing radical and rumors..FSA, not surprising.

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/2017-road-bike-groupset-rumours-sram-shimano-fsa-campagnolo-rotor-46173

[Elefantino]

Nothing radical and rumors..FSA, not surprising.

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/article/2017-road-bike-groupset-rumours-sram-shimano-fsa-campagnolo-rotor-46173

You can set up the new Campy groupset on your phone?

What's next?

[thirdgenbird]

Potato,
If you had a gun to your head, would you pick e-tap or the fsa group?

[AngryScientist]

I'm sorry, but to me this looks like unrefined garbage. A total afterthought, amateur hour stuff. all this noise about aero this, hidden brakes, internal cable routing, and there are still little boxes sitting in the wind zip tied to the stem. yuck!

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2016/01/19/2017-groupset-rumours-3-1453201529605-1q1amcbzftpq0-960-540.jpg

[MattTuck]

I'm sorry, but to me this looks like unrefined garbage. A total afterthought, amateur hour stuff. all this noise about aero this, hidden brakes, internal cable routing, and there are still little boxes sitting in the wind zip tied to the stem. yuck!

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2016/01/19/2017-groupset-rumours-3-1453201529605-1q1amcbzftpq0-960-540.jpg

Planned obsolescence. When they shift to some internal control unit that resides in the brifter, then there will be a marketing push to convince people that these stem mounted units are antiquated and not aero. c'mon Nick, you know how these things work :D

[bikerider888]

The news on shimano in this article is pretty much exactly what I was told by a highly placed source inside big S.

[FlashUNC]

I'm sorry, but to me this looks like unrefined garbage. A total afterthought, amateur hour stuff. all this noise about aero this, hidden brakes, internal cable routing, and there are still little boxes sitting in the wind zip tied to the stem. yuck!

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2016/01/19/2017-groupset-rumours-3-1453201529605-1q1amcbzftpq0-960-540.jpg

Horses for courses I guess. Gotta have a fault indicator somewhere, and I find it rather handy when checking the battery level or making some micro adjustments. Its right there at eye level when you've got it in the work stand.

[oldpotatoe]

:help::DPotato,
If you had a gun to your head, would you pick e-tap or the fsa group?

Ha ha, depends on the gun....would I rather have a PE or heart attack...

My gripe is with the people at spam mostly, know nobody at FSA so I'd say them.:crap::help::crap:

As for the very useful and handy interface/DTI, I guess the person doesn't like that way un-aero thing on his handlebar telling him is power, speed, etc.

Glad shimano sees the value of wires. We are reminded that wireless/spam does not the market make. I just had a little drone fly away(birthday present), the 'quality' of wireless impresses me not.

[45K10]

I still don't get the Rotor hydraulic derailleur??? I wonder how much they had to pay for Cervelo-Biga to use it.

[Bob Ross]

I'm sorry, but to me this looks like unrefined garbage. A total afterthought, amateur hour stuff. all this noise about aero this, hidden brakes, internal cable routing, and there are still little boxes sitting in the wind zip tied to the stem.

Well, in fairness that little box is kinda shaped like an airfoil...
:D

[R3awak3n]

totally agree with angry. You are paying all this money and you zip tie stuff to your stem. Also the cable management on that picture, nothing polished a bout it.

but FSA:

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2016/01/19/1437498367153-1dhvgl9wy1k76-1453201529616-1ebgjf5pmhryd-1400-80.jpg

damn, lets make this crank really ugly by putting these white blotch of crappy graphics on it.

[mhespenheide]

totally agree with angry. You are paying all this money and you zip tie stuff to your stem. Also the cable management on that picture, nothing polished a bout it.

but FSA:

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2016/01/19/1437498367153-1dhvgl9wy1k76-1453201529616-1ebgjf5pmhryd-1400-80.jpg

damn, lets make this crank really ugly by putting these white blotch of crappy graphics on it.

It pisses me off when a company tries to encourage me to use their combination of parts by specifying a paint job that blends across two component pieces. First the frame and fork, now cranks and chainrings. :no:

[R3awak3n]

campagnolo did it too when they started putting red on record and super record, I know red = fast in italy but it jumps out on almost any bike that is not red or has no red accents. FSA went even farther, and it kinda works on that bike but would look so much nicer with more subtle graphics

[harryblack]

I'm sorry, but to me this looks like unrefined garbage. A total afterthought, amateur hour stuff. all this noise about aero this, hidden brakes, internal cable routing, and there are still little boxes sitting in the wind zip tied to the stem. yuck!

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2016/01/19/2017-groupset-rumours-3-1453201529605-1q1amcbzftpq0-960-540.jpg

should be renamed Campagnolo FFS

and I love Campy but that's awful, even if I wanted my bike to talk to my phone (which I never, ever ever will do.)

[Chris]

There is no way it isn't all going to be wireless transmission in a couple of years. I'm holding out.

[Black Dog]

I still don't get the Rotor hydraulic derailleur??? I wonder how much they had to pay for Cervelo-Biga to use it.

Cervelo owns rotor.

[ColnagoFan]

Cervelo owns rotor.

What?

[livingminimal]

Cervelo owns rotor.

PON owns Cervelo and Focus and does not own Rotor. Rotor is entirely separate and I believe wholly independent.

[pavel]

should be renamed Campagnolo FFS

and I love Campy but that's awful, even if I wanted my bike to talk to my phone (which I never, ever ever will do.)

Is no one even going to discuss the spacer atrocity happening here???

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2016/01/19/2017-groupset-rumours-3-1453201529605-1q1amcbzftpq0-960-540.jpg

discussion: this is an atrocity :banana:

[livingminimal]

Pretty bad.

I'll say this....while I am excited about wireless becoming readily available...

-I will be truly excited when Shimano takes it up (or Campag)
-I think it's ····ing hilariously pathetic that etap was brought to market without hydro brakes, either caliper or disc. They just missed out on having the US Champion in 'cross on a wireless transmission drive train in the discipline of cycling where it is going to absolutely make the most sense to have it.

[11.4]

The news on shimano in this article is pretty much exactly what I was told by a highly placed source inside big S.

I think we were addressing this on another forum. This particular article basically says it could be this or that or something else, and it's all hypothetical and not even rumor yet. So I wouldn't place much credence in what was written here. Journalists with no information trying to look informed.

[thirdgenbird]

I still want a cannondale slate with rotor's hydraulic shifting. There is no way I would pay retail for it, but it sounds like a great contrast to my existing rides.

[eBAUMANN]

I still want a cannondale slate with rotor's hydraulic shifting. There is no way I would pay retail for it, but it sounds like a great contrast to my existing rides.

so long as you dont work on your own bike...sure hydro everything sounds great.

personally, i think its the stupidest thing ive ever seen, and ive seen a lot of stupid stuff.
there is no way it works better than electronic shifting, its more of a pain to setup than mechanical shifting, and it probably costs more than both...its existence is completely pointless.
:crap:

[Russian bear]

I actually think Rotor's hydro groupset is pretty interesting, except those magura brakes are HIDEOUS. You can change how many gears you change at a time, should be bleed and forget assuming you don't take your groupset on and off a lot. We'll see how it does in the peloton. First reports are pretty promising from bike radar - price is suppose to be below DA di2. I'm also pretty jazzed about etap, it makes the bike look so clean. Will probably wait until version 2 so they get all the bugs out.

Till then I'll stick to my Campy :)

[sitzmark]

Is no one even going to discuss the spacer atrocity happening here???
discussion: this is an atrocity :banana:

From a functional standpoint or strictly aesthetics?
Theoretically the Deda HSS spacers extend the head tube ("tall" HT concept) and reduce force on the steerer more effectively than standard spacers. I don't have HSS on any of my bikes, but can see some merit to the design. Does theory become reality in use ... have seen no data.

[thirdgenbird]

so long as you dont work on your own bike...sure hydro everything sounds great.

personally, i think its the stupidest thing ive ever seen, and ive seen a lot of stupid stuff.
there is no way it works better than electronic shifting, its more of a pain to setup than mechanical shifting, and it probably costs more than both...its existence is completely pointless.
:crap:

As I said, I wouldn't pay anywhere near retail for the experiance, nor am I sold its a great idea. I only think the obscurity would be interesting. I would stick with lugged steel, a steel fork, and record 10 for long rides.

I do work on my own bike, but I've also rebuilt my Porsche and fuel injected my daily driven rambler. How much more complicated or frustrating could a pair of shifters be?

[livingminimal]

I do work on my own bike, but I've also rebuilt my Porsche and fuel injected my daily driven rambler. How much more complicated or frustrating could a pair of shifters be?


For you? Doesn't seem like much.

For everyone else? A lot.

[thirdgenbird]

For you? Doesn't seem like much.

For everyone else? A lot.

I also wouldn't reccomend it for everyone, or anyone at this point. Tht doesn't make me any less curious.

The interesting thing for me is the perception of hydraulic braking and shifting. I can find many examples where people on this forum talk about how easy and painless bleeding brakes is for the home mechanic but when the same principle gets applied to shifting, it becomes an issue.

Again, I'm not in support of, or a fan of hydraulic shifting. I've only trie acros in a stand. I am simply intrigued by the mechanics of it.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

Can someone explain the market need filled by hydraulic shifting, that is not filled by cable or electronic shifting? Strikes me as increasing complexity while making zero gains in shifting performance.

[don compton]

Sorry, I am 64yo and could not give a ···· about anything electronic. Why can't I get a Shimano (Shimano rings) 48-34? Why is it that close gears are considered useless for us old farts? Why do I need an eleven cog?

[ultraman6970]

If this helps you, you dont need any of that crap :)

From all of the new stuff, what I would love to try is the wireles groups. For the ride I do should last a very, very long time.

The other thing that would be fantastic is just go and hack the wireless group to work with campagnolo wheels, eventhought probably it works already.

[Russian bear]

Can someone explain the market need filled by hydraulic shifting, that is not filled by cable or electronic shifting? Strikes me as increasing complexity while making zero gains in shifting performance.

Hydro is lighter. There's no cable stretch to fuss with, no batteries that can run out mid ride so you have to finish the ride in the small ring (i know it's not a common occurance). Without having felt the shifting it's hard to say if it's worth it though. High hipster factor! The last thing is an eye of the beholder thing, but di2 derailleurs don't look very aesthetically pleasing with their large servo humps, the rotor derailleurs have an industrial minimalist design that's pretty cool. Those brakes though ugh..

[oldpotatoe]

Can someone explain the market need filled by hydraulic shifting, that is not filled by cable or electronic shifting? Strikes me as increasing complexity while making zero gains in shifting performance.

As has been mentioned, FSA electronic is being held up by patent infringements, so I guess, 'do this shifting thing', differently, with hydro sauce.

There is no 'market need' filled by electronic or hydro. It is just a different way to move derailleurs around. Eliminate derailleurs, w/o something being the complexity of a watch, that weighs a ton and costs a fortune..that would be something.

[kittytrail]

one of the advantages of -well done- hydraulic shifting is set and forget, like you can see with some HS33 brakes where you only need to change pads once in a while when they're done and don't even need to bleed the stuff for ten or twenty years. another advantage is the need for much lighter finger force to do its deeds at the shifters ends, a gentle push is enough, much like hydraulic brakes. no need to change cables either nor readjust for cable stretch. and no batteries! ;)

great if you overthink what's going on your bike 'cause you don't like to change all components -or bike- every month or so and the hydraulic lines are internally routed.

now, would i buy one from Rotor? not sure but why not if the price is right and i can use them with 9s Shimano and 10s Campagnolo cassettes. would i want hydraulic TRP RRL levers compatible with Magura's HS-33 brakes? you bet i would. right now. :beer:

sidenote: spacers setup and stem are hideous and horrendously'n totally mismatched. way to go you pro mechanics! :no:

[Bob Ross]

There is no 'market need' filled by electronic or hydro.

Well, I don't know about hydro -- in fact, until I saw this thread I didn't realize hydraulic shifting was even a thing! -- but there definitely is a 'market need' (albeit a very small niche market) for electronic shifting:

People with disabilities, chronic injuries, or restricted range-of-motion due to physiological issues.

[oldpotatoe]

Well, I don't know about hydro -- in fact, until I saw this thread I didn't realize hydraulic shifting was even a thing! -- but there definitely is a 'market need' (albeit a very small niche market) for electronic shifting:

People with disabilities, chronic injuries, or restricted range-of-motion due to physiological issues.

Fair enough...

'Alternative' shifting methods been around for a while.

[Russian bear]

Well, I don't know about hydro -- in fact, until I saw this thread I didn't realize hydraulic shifting was even a thing! -- but there definitely is a 'market need' (albeit a very small niche market) for electronic shifting:

People with disabilities, chronic injuries, or restricted range-of-motion due to physiological issues.

This is also very important to note. I've followed stories of a couple people recently who have had injuries (one being run over by a truck) where a hydro disk group was essential for her to bike safely again in the PNW. Otherwise it's a "nice to have" much like the majority of higher end products.

[jemoryl]

Can someone explain the market need filled by hydraulic shifting, that is not filled by cable or electronic shifting? Strikes me as increasing complexity while making zero gains in shifting performance.

Maybe it is simply that no one else has tried to patent it yet?

[ColnagoFan]

Maybe it is simply that no one else has tried to patent it yet?

SAFE used to make a hydro shifting system for MTBs back in the 90s. Scott Allen Fife Enterprises. Ask me how I remember that but didn't remember to take my lunch to work today? It's still on the counter.
I can still see the product test, on a Crosstrac Sonoma. How I lusted for that bike...

[Black Dog]

Can someone explain the market need filled by hydraulic shifting, that is not filled by cable or electronic shifting? Strikes me as increasing complexity while making zero gains in shifting performance.

There are some assumptions in your statement that have not been verified. Not saying you are wrong or right. We just don't know.