Stages question...

[benb]

Is there any issue with having a stages shimano left crankarm that is not exactly matched to the right side?

E.x. an Ultegra left side + 105 right side or vise versa. Or a 6800 left side with a 6700 right side or any other combo.

Assuming they're all Hollowtech II it should mount up fine right?

Kind of at a point where I'd be tempted to push the button but not if it means replacing everything to make it match perfectly, and I'd probably want to move it from bike to bike too, and no way I'd want to go and make all the bikes have the exact same crankset.

[batman1425]

Can't speak for Shimano - but this is common (read essential) for Sram users who run anything other than a Rival crank. The Rival arm fits fine on a Force or Red spindle.

[benb]

Yah my thought was mostly can I buy the cheapest shimano option and use it with whatever is on the bike. We're talking big savings to do that.

[batman1425]

Check out this thread at roadbikereview... seems some folks there were interested in the same thing and had luck. Not sure if your specific scenario is represented in those experiences, but looks promising.

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/shimano/ultegra-6700-6800-left-arm-compatible-stages-power-meter-319315.html

[sandyrs]

As long as it's a hollow tech ii crank (i.e. any shimano crank from the last few generations of their road groups) it will work.

[ptourkin]

I know a few people who have taken advantage of the recent closeouts on 7800 Stages and are running them with a 6800 or 9000 drive side. There are no issues.

[yashcha]

I am running a 7800 stages on a 6800 drivetrain and a 9000 drivetrain. No problems other than the cranks look different from each other.

[ceolwulf]

Can't speak for Shimano - but this is common (read essential) for Sram users who run anything other than a Rival crank. The Rival arm fits fine on a Force or Red spindle.


Borrowing this thread for just a moment - the Rival Stages (the one on clearance now) fits on Rival 22 as well, correct?

[batman1425]

I'm not sure if that applies to the new Exogram design. The description on the website says The Rival GXP version will fit any GXP crank, but doesn't say if that includes the 22 versions.

The BB30 carbon version comes in different options for Red22 vs. Force/Rival22 so I'm guessing there isn't compatibility there.

[spartanKid]

The BB30 carbon version comes in different options for Red22 vs. Force/Rival22 so I'm guessing there isn't compatibility there.

Coincidentally I inquired about this recently.

This is due to the fact that the "SRAM Carbon BB30 Stages" arms they sell are in fact the carbon FSA BB386 arms. The spindle they sell are BB386 on one side, and BB30 on the other.

[livingminimal]

I have a DA9000 Stages.

I've used it on a ton of different Hollowtech II cranksets.

Ex: It sits on my CX crankset (46/36 Ultegra) all season long.

You're all good.

[kgreene10]

Or just but my BNIB Pioneer DA9000 for less money and get much more data, and likely even something resembling accuracy!

[sandyrs]

Or just but my BNIB Pioneer DA9000 for less money and get much more data, and likely even something resembling accuracy!

The cheapest stages arm for shimano is $529. If you're selling a pioneer for less than that I'll take it.

[livingminimal]

Or just but my BNIB Pioneer DA9000 for less money and get much more data, and likely even something resembling accuracy!


Insert Eye-Roll emoji re: accuracy here.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-update.html

Since then, both hardware and software has been update.

Anyone who's taken a moment or two to think about use of power while training know consistency is what matters anyway.

[adrien]

Borrowing this thread for just a moment - the Rival Stages (the one on clearance now) fits on Rival 22 as well, correct?

Yes. I'm running it on Red 22, no problems at all. It's a really elegant and simple solution.


http://www.stagescycling.com/en_US/products/sram-rival-oct-gxp/

[ceolwulf]

Yes. I'm running it on Red 22, no problems at all. It's a really elegant and simple solution.





http://www.stagescycling.com/en_US/products/sram-rival-oct-gxp/


Perfect, thanks.

[benb]

Thanks guys.. ordered a 105.. it's not going to match up with either of my road bikes but whatever, it seems almost no power meter is perfect aesthetically.

The pioneer wouldn't have worked for me, more difficult to swap (although not much), I don't necessarily want the rings and it's still at least 2x the cost.. the two bikes I will use it on will use different rings.. one will wear 50/34 cause I use it offroad and with a load, the other bike will have a 53/39.

DC Rainmaker's reviews have been helpful.. very interesting to see the temperature compensation in the stages is strong.

[livingminimal]

Thanks guys.. ordered a 105.. it's not going to match up with either of my road bikes but whatever, it seems almost no power meter is perfect aesthetically.

The pioneer wouldn't have worked for me, more difficult to swap (although not much), I don't necessarily want the rings and it's still at least 2x the cost.. the two bikes I will use it on will use different rings.. one will wear 50/34 cause I use it offroad and with a load, the other bike will have a 53/39.

DC Rainmaker's reviews have been helpful.. very interesting to see the temperature compensation in the stages is strong.


My solution for road bikes has been one stages DA9000 crankset across multiple road bikes, my Focus, my Pegoretti, and my Stinner. I use an Ultegra for cross, but I ride a cross bike 5-6 months only throughout the year but w/ the Stages arm.

anyway, swapping cranks is exactly as hard as swapping crank arms. a single crank across multiple bikes (of the same platform; road, cross etc) makes a lot of sense to me in a power meter situation, same pedals etc.

[pavel]

Those of you on Stages, can you comment on the accuracy and battery life? I've read you get 30 hours or less since its a CR2302 battery, although that doesnt make much sense to me since the powertap G3 runs on the same thing and IME gets great battery life.

[chiasticon]

Those of you on Stages, can you comment on the accuracy and battery life? I've read you get 30 hours or less since its a CR2302 battery, although that doesnt make much sense to me since the powertap G3 runs on the same thing and IME gets great battery life.IF you can keep water out of the battery compartment for 30 hours of riding, it may last that long.

[sandyrs]

IF you can keep water out of the battery compartment for 30 hours of riding, it may last that long.

Spoken from experience with the first or second generation Stages?

[pavel]

as of 2015 they claim 200 hours, can anyone verify?


The Stages Power meter's battery life is estimated at just over 200 hours. The power meter is motion activated and will broadcast regardless of whether a head unit is present and connected to the power meter and will also continue to stay in active mode for several minutes after the crank stops moving before entering into sleep mode, so please keep this in mind when estimating battery usage as your riding time may not be equal to the amount of time the power meter was broadcasting.
http://support.stagescycling.com/support/solutions/articles/1000137155-battery-life

[chiasticon]

Spoken from experience with the first or second generation Stages?first gen, but three or four versions of "better" battery doors.

[benb]

From what I was reading the increased battery life claims have to do with them getting smarter about what level of acceleration is required to turn the device on... they were having lots of battery drain in the old versions of the firmware when you weren't actually riding the bike. (E.x. driving with it on a roof rack or moving it in the garage)

The support page clearly indicates the water intrusion protection has been redesigned as well.

[kgreene10]

Insert Eye-Roll emoji re: accuracy here.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/06/stages-review-update.html

Since then, both hardware and software has been update.

Anyone who's taken a moment or two to think about use of power while training know consistency is what matters anyway.

Apologies for the thread hijack. Bad form on my part. My lower-cost-than-Stages Pioneer (if you include crank and computer) is now sold so no vested interest here. However, I am compelled to respond nonetheless. 1) Accuracy matters if you ever change power meters and want to compare progress across them. 2) Stages can be inconsistent if your output varies across legs for differently intense efforts and/or as you fatigue. No question both are true for me as several testers have also shown for themselves. I'm all for a cheap pm and the Stages crew sound first rate. Plus they are in the US. All great stuff, but no need to claim ground that the product doesn't cover.

[benb]

Interesting you were thinking about it from the perspective of assuming someone doesn't have cranks and/or computer.

It seems like most people would end up with the computer first. I've had an Ant+ computer for 4-5 years now, although only got one with useful recording features last year.

[adrien]

Those of you on Stages, can you comment on the accuracy and battery life? I've read you get 30 hours or less since its a CR2302 battery, although that doesnt make much sense to me since the powertap G3 runs on the same thing and IME gets great battery life.

Approximately 1300 miles for me, at an average of about 15mph -- so 85 hours or so. That was after my second ride with the Edge warning me it was low. I did not run it until it died.

Battery took 12 seconds to replace. I bought a 2-pack for $5. I am pleased with the ratio of riding to futzing with the thing. :hello:

[kgreene10]

Interesting you were thinking about it from the perspective of assuming someone doesn't have cranks and/or computer.

It seems like most people would end up with the computer first. I've had an Ant+ computer for 4-5 years now, although only got one with useful recording features last year.

Yeah, I was just trying to compare what I had for sale to what it would cost to buy a semi-similar setup with a one-sided Stages.

[livingminimal]

Apologies for the thread hijack. Bad form on my part. My lower-cost-than-Stages Pioneer (if you include crank and computer) is now sold so no vested interest here. However, I am compelled to respond nonetheless. 1) Accuracy matters if you ever change power meters and want to compare progress across them.

Changing power meters mid-training is a no-no unless you plan to do a new FTP test every single time, or you know the variances between meters. For the record, if you read the DC Rainmaker link, his tests across multiple power meters is fairly comprehensive and shows Stages is within the standard margin of delta for any PM (at the time of testing, before version 2 and software updates) and is consistent, which again, is the most important thing.

If you're training on two different set ups, with two entirely different power meters, there will always be a delta of some kind. Period.

If you bought a new power meter, if any brand, even if it were a replacement for one you were already using, you'd be failing yourself if you didn't immediately do an FTP test.



2) Stages can be inconsistent if your output varies across legs for differently intense efforts and/or as you fatigue.

Dude, what? If there is a 48/52 L/R differential, chances are that it isn't going to change much because you're tired. It's also again, going to be consistent because its doubling left leg power. Consistency. Only thing that matters. Here is your FTP, here is your percentage of it to do in intervals, here is your max watts over X amount of time. Consistency is the only thing that matters. If my FTP on stages is 285 and 291 on Pioneer, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference as long as I pick one system and work with the given number.

I don't know about you, but I am not using peak numbers as an ultimate goal in training. I am using time. (ie: race performance).

No question both are true for me as several testers have also shown for themselves.

Show me, I'd be interested in it. Seriously, if I am wrong and fatigue somehow denigrates the data output from Stages, it would be good to know.

I'm all for a cheap pm and the Stages crew sound first rate. Plus they are in the US. All great stuff, but no need to claim ground that the product doesn't cover.

Team Sky is pretty into it too.

[benb]

Got the stages PM in the mail today and installed it when I got home from work, pretty easy install.

The only thing that is odd is the ANT+ transmission range seems pretty short compared to some of my other sensors but it works on the bar so that's fine. I use a Garmin Fenix 3 and if I sit in the saddle and pedal sitting straight up on the trainer with the watch on my wrist it's out of range of the cranks. My existing speed & cadence sensors would not have an issue with that. Could be the range is reduced in the house on the trainer too and would be better outside, but as soon as I mount the garmin on the bars it's fine.

Once I did the zero offset and then calibrated my Tacx the readings are very close so all seems well. I'd be curious what figure the Tacx is showing, it must be at least the 5s average as it's very smooth.

[thegunner]

Those of you on Stages, can you comment on the accuracy and battery life? I've read you get 30 hours or less since its a CR2302 battery, although that doesnt make much sense to me since the powertap G3 runs on the same thing and IME gets great battery life.

IF you can keep water out of the battery compartment for 30 hours of riding, it may last that long.

as of 2015 they claim 200 hours, can anyone verify?

http://support.stagescycling.com/support/solutions/articles/1000137155-battery-life

so much negativity haha, i think it's between 30 and 200 hours, i get maybe 3 or 4 months out of it (which for me is about 120~ hours?)

note: i have the first gen one (replaced 2x under warranty) with the red seal on the battery component.

[yashcha]

I also had similar issues with data drop, and short range. Instead of letting your receiver search for the power meter during the pairing process, you should enter the power meter ID directly. That helped me.

Got the stages PM in the mail today and installed it when I got home from work, pretty easy install.

The only thing that is odd is the ANT+ transmission range seems pretty short compared to some of my other sensors but it works on the bar so that's fine. I use a Garmin Fenix 3 and if I sit in the saddle and pedal sitting straight up on the trainer with the watch on my wrist it's out of range of the cranks. My existing speed & cadence sensors would not have an issue with that. Could be the range is reduced in the house on the trainer too and would be better outside, but as soon as I mount the garmin on the bars it's fine.

Once I did the zero offset and then calibrated my Tacx the readings are very close so all seems well. I'd be curious what figure the Tacx is showing, it must be at least the 5s average as it's very smooth.

[benb]

I'll have to figure out how to enter the ID directly. Hard to believe that would make a difference but I do remember seeing (and ignoring) that in the instructions.

I'll have to do something.. it's either much more subject to interference than normal speed/cadence/hr sensors or there is something crazy in my house with 2.4ghz. I just rode the trainer for 40 minutes and it definitely was far from rock solid.

Maybe this is a torture test.. but I had a tablet set up about the same distance from the head unit as the PM (and closer than the speed pickup on the rear wheel) and I was streaming video to the tablet AND then streaming the audio to a bluetooth speaker. Meanwhile the baby monitor was on, which is a horrible 2.4ghz noisemaker. I actually saw the speed sensor cutout as well, and I've never seen that before.

But anyway it cutout quite a few times.

[yashcha]

The baby monitor is a problem. You must decide between the wellness of you baby, or data integrity of your workouts. :D

I'll have to figure out how to enter the ID directly. Hard to believe that would make a difference but I do remember seeing (and ignoring) that in the instructions.

I'll have to do something.. it's either much more subject to interference than normal speed/cadence/hr sensors or there is something crazy in my house with 2.4ghz. I just rode the trainer for 40 minutes and it definitely was far from rock solid.

Maybe this is a torture test.. but I had a tablet set up about the same distance from the head unit as the PM (and closer than the speed pickup on the rear wheel) and I was streaming video to the tablet AND then streaming the audio to a bluetooth speaker. Meanwhile the baby monitor was on, which is a horrible 2.4ghz noisemaker. I actually saw the speed sensor cutout as well, and I've never seen that before.

But anyway it cutout quite a few times.

[dalava]

Got the stages PM in the mail today and installed it when I got home from work, pretty easy install.

The only thing that is odd is the ANT+ transmission range seems pretty short compared to some of my other sensors but it works on the bar so that's fine. I use a Garmin Fenix 3 and if I sit in the saddle and pedal sitting straight up on the trainer with the watch on my wrist it's out of range of the cranks. My existing speed & cadence sensors would not have an issue with that. Could be the range is reduced in the house on the trainer too and would be better outside, but as soon as I mount the garmin on the bars it's fine.

Once I did the zero offset and then calibrated my Tacx the readings are very close so all seems well. I'd be curious what figure the Tacx is showing, it must be at least the 5s average as it's very smooth.

Curious as to what Tacx trainer you have and how do you have it set up to have similar power output as the Stages. I have a Vortex Smart and it consistently output power at least 20% higher than the Stages. I've played around the knob at the back and it's as tight against the tire as it could be. I've also gone the other way and it was worse. Any insights would be appreciated.

[benb]

I did a little more research last night.

So first off I have a Fenix 3. Stages thinks the Fenix 3 & Forerunner 920XT, etc.. have worse signal reception than the Edge units because of the smaller and differently shaped antenna. Apparently they have trouble because the Power Meter is rotating in space as it transmits. If it really becomes a problem at some point I'll buy an Edge device.. I'd love to have something with mapping. Otherwise I absolutely love my Fenix 3. In terms of tying your whole day together for tracking all your activity and monitoring your calories and such it does things you just can't do with an Edge.

As for my Tacx.. it has some sort of calibration. Not sure if it's zero offset or what but it seems like I would probably have to calibrate it every time to get it to agree with the output on the Stages. It was pretty close most of the time once I calibrated it. (within 5-10w?) but at least on my garmin I tried throwing up Power, 3s average power, and 10s average power up on the screen and the tacx has gotta be showing something like 30s average power because it's unusually smooth. It wouldn't make sense for a trainer to register higher power than a crank based PM AFAICT.. the trainer should be the lowest with a crank based system registering the highest, a rear hub system a bit lower due to drivetrain loss, and the trainer should be lowest of all due also losing power in the tire.

I did notice you can really easily see the Stages increasing and decreasing power if you push harder with one leg or the other. It's pretty steady in steady effort but at least on the trainer I noticed that when I switch bar positions I must push much harder with the forward leg while I'm moving my hands and you see a big swing in the watts for a brief period since it only measures the left side. It looked like at least a 50w change if I switched bar positions when my left foot was pushing down.

[stien]

so much negativity haha, i think it's between 30 and 200 hours, i get maybe 3 or 4 months out of it (which for me is about 120~ hours?)

note: i have the first gen one (replaced 2x under warranty) with the red seal on the battery component.


Another data point: we had two units replaced 2x under warranty for very short battery life (~20 hrs) and gave up after that.

[ceolwulf]

the tacx has gotta be showing something like 30s average power because it's unusually smooth.


I noticed this yesterday again while doing a Sufferfest video with the Wahoo app connected to my Vortex Smart. At one point the video was changing efforts quite quickly and it would take a while before the power readout would match my effort. On ten second efforts it wouldn't catch up at all. On Zwift though it seems to respond more quickly, might just be my imagination but it does seem to, so I wonder what signals it's actually transmitting and how much the receiving device affects what we're seeing.

[benb]

First ride outside today went absolutely flawlessly with no dropouts.

Guess I need to figure out what the sources of interference are in the house.

Did the FTP test protocol from the Hunter and Coggans book. That was pretty painful, not sure I did the test all that well, the route I picked was probably too hilly but it's not that easy to find places to ride for 20 minutes straight around here without a big hill or an intersection.

Super excited to start figuring this out, I'm going to pay for some 1-time help from a coach to get a plan together for this season. Based on the power #s I think I understand what's been killing me all these years.. I basically go out and go bonkers up every hill (particularly if they are in the 1-5 minute range to climb) nearly every ride... burying myself in fatigue. I pretty much have no clue how to take it easy.

[shovelhd]

Curious as to what Tacx trainer you have and how do you have it set up to have similar power output as the Stages. I have a Vortex Smart and it consistently output power at least 20% higher than the Stages. I've played around the knob at the back and it's as tight against the tire as it could be. I've also gone the other way and it was worse. Any insights would be appreciated.

I have a Bushido Smart and an SRM on the bike. They are pretty close, within 10w. I also have another bike with a Stages which I will be using over the next week while I tear the main bike down for a complete updating. Did you use the Tacx app to dial in the resistance?