I can't stop looking at this bike, and yes it's SRAM

[scho74]

Such a beauty. I wonder if eTap will take off.

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/12501500_954565984593120_181246936_n.jpg

[Cicli]

I saw that too. Nice bike. mostly.

[d_douglas]

eTap looks pretty amazing. Not a fan of SRAM, but it is a good idea. I would be more inclined to love it if Campy made it or like it if Shimano made it ;). All it needs is wireless hydraulic brakes...

Seriously, that is a nice bike.

[Cameron]

I was ogling that bike this morning too, trying to decide whether I liked it or the Mosaic better:

http://www.abovecategorycycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/IMG_2303.jpg

[Matthew]

Both are stellar. There is something about Baum, they all look so good.

[kgreene10]

I had terrible experiences with SRAM Red, but I may just chew the cable stops off my bikes when etap becomes available.

[batman1425]

I think it's the post and stem on the Baum. Small custom details there that really complete the seamless look.

That said, the mosaic is beautifully done as well. Splitting hairs at this level.

[drewellison]

Curved fork blades would be nice. Otherwise, the lines on that thing are very attractive.

[chiltonp]

both nice bikes, I usually really digg Baums but in this case I think the Mosaic may be ticking more boxes for me.

[chiltonp]

seems like a lot of builders are salivating at the idea of wireless being the future...

[bianchi10]

Cannot wait to try those new vittoria Corsa G+tires this spring!

[kgreene10]

We have a team deal that would allow me to get a pretty nice price on a 2016 aero Madone. The thing is the opposite of these bikes in many ways and it goes to great lengths to hide all cables. It even includes a secret door inside the down tube to hide a di2 battery and junction box.

I was thinking of getting an Ultegra mechanical version and then eventually going wireless with it.

But will the frame have too many compromises built into it? Does the giant door in the down tube diminish stiffness and ride quality? Or will it just be a really handy place to store my flask?

[Matthew]

For what it's worth, Velo magazine just did a side by side test with the Trek and the Specialized Venge. They liked the Trek better.

[velomonkey]

I totally get the advantages of wireless, but having a colnago that is drilled only for electric and has no holes or mounts for mechanical the 2 areas that the cables barely protrude from just aren't all that unappealing and do very little to detract from the beauty of the bike.

Electric was the revolution, wireless is an evolution and in a few years I am certain to buy into it, just as a did with electric.

[tuscanyswe]

Whats going on with the fork / headset junction on the mosaic?

[thattallasiangu]

Whats going on with the fork / headset junction on the mosaic?

Someone overlooked that....

[alexstar]

The way the Chris King baseplate is shaped, coupled with a big carbon fork, leaves a little gap. No big deal IMO. Aesthetes may disagree.

[tuscanyswe]

The way the Chris King baseplate is shaped, coupled with a big carbon fork, leaves a little gap. No big deal IMO. Aesthetes may disagree.

Thats not the normal gap from a king baseplate.. unless the king inset8 has a higher baseplate than a regular king or even an inset7?
That would be a downer as i just bought that headset and that kind of gap would bather me, i just know it would eat away at me lol.

[oldpotatoe]

Such a beauty. I wonder if eTap will take off.

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xaf1/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/12501500_954565984593120_181246936_n.jpg

Yup, I'd take it off...ohh, wait..:D

[oldpotatoe]

seems like a lot of builders are salivating at the idea of wireless being the future...

why not, it's cheaper. A proprietary frame, yippee..

[ElHardeen]

Whats going on with the fork / headset junction on the mosaic?

The small gap between fork and headset?

Or the lip around the top and bottom of the head tube?

[josephr]

Its a nice looking bike, brand new, but when the finish starts wearing off and parts starts breaking, then what?

[sandyrs]

why not, it's cheaper. A proprietary frame, yippee..

I wonder if the frame was built with tubing suitable for drilling later if SRAM goes under :)

[livingminimal]

Honestly, people are getting way too excited about a non-drilled frame.
You still need brake routing. If you're doing hydro, you'll still want internal brake cabling or it'll be truly unsightly.

So shifting means four small holes. Fill them with an injectable silicon and go wireless if you really need to. The four hole are really the least of my concerns and I am not going to buy a new frame to go wireless.

Also wouldn't dare go wireless until Shimano or campag figure it out. I still find it completely amazing SRAM is coming to market with etap that can't take a 32 cassette or hydro.

[sandyrs]

Honestly, people are getting way too excited about a non-drilled frame.
You still need brake routing. If you're doing hydro, you'll still want internal brake cabling or it'll be truly unsightly.

So shifting means four small holes. Fill them with an injectable silicon and go wireless if you really need to. The four hole are really the least of my concerns and I am not going to buy a new frame to go wireless.

Also wouldn't dare go wireless until Shimano or campag figure it out. I still find it completely amazing SRAM is coming to market with etap that can't take a 32 cassette or hydro.

This is far too reasonable a take on wireless. Be excited because it's new and shiny!

I still think old potatoe's point about one handed front derailleur shifting being off the table is very salient too.

[oldpotatoe]

Honestly, people are getting way too excited about a non-drilled frame.
You still need brake routing. If you're doing hydro, you'll still want internal brake cabling or it'll be truly unsightly.

So shifting means four small holes. Fill them with an injectable silicon and go wireless if you really need to. The four hole are really the least of my concerns and I am not going to buy a new frame to go wireless.

Also wouldn't dare go wireless until Shimano or campag figure it out. I still find it completely amazing SRAM is coming to market with etap that can't take a 32 cassette or hydro.

sram is 'all in' on hydro, kinda betting the farm on it because just being a cross specific group(hydro, 1by, etc), isn't going to pay the bills. Road hydro had better work for them or...

The 'groad' market is pretty small also. Where they are getting slapped around by shimano is lower tier, OEM type bikes, both road, MTB and 'adventure'. etapp and hydro is small but surprizing that Campag may have electronic and hydro before spam.

[livingminimal]

sram is 'all in' on hydro, kinda betting the farm on it because just being a cross specific group(hydro, 1by, etc), isn't going to pay the bills. Road hydro had better work for them or...


Youre right, and I get that, but for them NOT to have hydro eTap developed in time for it's release feels like amateur hour. They should have released a product that was ready for a lot (or full) cross market appeal and then work to refine the technology involved in the wireless, not make people wait for hydro etc. That's just going to give everyone else a chance to catch up.

there is an enormous amount of buzz around this product, that's for damn sure, but I am not sure what the advantage is, presently. Your point about one handed FD shifting is very valid. It's slower than eps or Di2. As 'simple' as they make it sound, I would still be working with my reliable trusty mechanic to make sure everything was installed properly. The DIY installation aspect doesn't appeal to me at this time either.

Don't mind me, I just woke up to watch the World Cup and haven't had my coffee yet.

[oldpotatoe]

Youre right, and I get that, but for them NOT to have hydro eTap developed in time for it's release feels like amateur hour. They should have released a product that was ready for a lot (or full) cross market appeal and then work to refine the technology involved in the wireless, not make people wait for hydro etc. That's just going to give everyone else a chance to catch up.

there is an enormous amount of buzz around this product, that's for damn sure, but I am not sure what the advantage is, presently. Your point about one handed FD shifting is very valid. It's slower than eps or Di2. As 'simple' as they make it sound, I would still be working with my reliable trusty mechanic to make sure everything was installed properly. The DIY installation aspect doesn't appeal to me at this time either.

Don't mind me, I just woke up to watch the World Cup and haven't had my coffee yet.

I agree 100%. After having to deal one on one with these einsteins, amateur hour is putting it mildly. I have had discussions with shimano big boys, Japanese, at interbike and many conversations with Wayne Stetina..who has the keys to the front door at shimano, USA, and they are very reasonable. They might not do anything but at least they are very polite. The big boy(s) at sram..not so much.

In cross, when off the bike/on the bike, slamming stuff around..AND so many 1by..not ever gonna have 1by etapp.

[Benneke]

Its hard to see eTap taking off with the stranglehold Shimano has on the OEM market in the US, and the dirt cheap prices on Di2 from UK vendors. The only places I expect to see eTap in the next few years is on pre-configured custom bikes, ultra high-end bikes from large manufacturers where they offer both Shimano and Sram options, and on TT/Triathlon bikes with difficult cable routing. Not including a hydro disc option was a huge mistake, because the only place SRAM is still relevant (outside of the MTB world) is in cyclocross, and everyone in American cyclocross is on hydro discs now.

[mod6]

Big fan of Sram's xx1 mtb drive and I do like their road stuff. I have to agree not having hydro eTap developed in time for it's release is a mistake when road disc is a hot thing. I am thinking about having a Ti road disc frame built and building it up with eTap. Not sure if I want use TRP HYRD brakes with it when I can go Ultegra Di2 for half the price.

[chiasticon]

I still find it completely amazing SRAM is coming to market with etap that can't take a 32 cassette or hydro.

I think the idea is to appeal to a safer market before appealing to all markets. not a revolutionary idea. I would imagine that the vast majority of people that buy the top tier groupset from any manufacturer are putting it on a road bike, not a cross or gravel bike. racing cross, I'd say less than 5% of people I see are on top tier groupsets (or bikes, or wheels, ...). unless they're sponsored (but then sram gets less/no $ from them anyway) or the groupset is a couple generations old. I'm sure it's different in California, but in the midwest, this is what I see.

point is: I think it was easier for sram to get the tech into the road market, then work it into 1X, hydro, gravel, etc. and it probably wasn't ready to go onto their sponsored pro athletes' bikes by the start of cross season. I'd imagine that won't be the case come next fall, though.

Your point about one handed FD shifting is very valid. It's slower than eps or Di2.are you going from reviews or just making an assumption based on the way it functions? because I'm sure you haven't compared all three, given eTap's limited available at the moment.

[oldpotatoe]

I think the idea is to appeal to a safer market before appealing to all markets. not a revolutionary idea. I would imagine that the vast majority of people that buy the top tier groupset from any manufacturer are putting it on a road bike, not a cross or gravel bike. racing cross, I'd say less than 5% of people I see are on top tier groupsets (or bikes, or wheels, ...). unless they're sponsored (but then sram gets less/no $ from them anyway) or the groupset is a couple generations old. I'm sure it's different in California, but in the midwest, this is what I see.

point is: I think it was easier for sram to get the tech into the road market, then work it into 1X, hydro, gravel, etc. and it probably wasn't ready to go onto their sponsored pro athletes' bikes by the start of cross season. I'd imagine that won't be the case come next fall, though.

are you going from reviews or just making an assumption based on the way it functions? because I'm sure you haven't compared all three, given eTap's limited available at the moment.

The 2 reviews I read said it's slightly slower and noisier than Di2 and EPS and no way to shift to rings with one hand. I'm sure there is some way to do etap 1by...I guess.

[livingminimal]

I think the idea is to appeal to a safer market before appealing to all markets. not a revolutionary idea. I would imagine that the vast majority of people that buy the top tier groupset from any manufacturer are putting it on a road bike, not a cross or gravel bike. racing cross, I'd say less than 5% of people I see are on top tier groupsets (or bikes, or wheels, ...). unless they're sponsored (but then sram gets less/no $ from them anyway) or the groupset is a couple generations old. I'm sure it's different in California, but in the midwest, this is what I see.

It may be different here, I suppose. More people probably do ride DA/SR/Red than in other places, potentially.



point is: I think it was easier for sram to get the tech into the road market, then work it into 1X, hydro, gravel, etc. and it probably wasn't ready to go onto their sponsored pro athletes' bikes by the start of cross season. I'd imagine that won't be the case come next fall, though.

I just think its bizarre to come to market with such a product, one that is going to receive so much attention and buzz, without all of the other bits that possibly have people presently buying your competitors (in this case, just Shimano's) groupsets. 785 Di2 is pretty popular, especially at the grey market pricing, and has all the bells-and-whistles regarding whats currently possible.

are you going from reviews or just making an assumption based on the way it functions? because I'm sure you haven't compared all three, given eTap's limited available at the moment.

My shop had an eTap bike brought in by their local SRAM rep to try out. Everyone that works at the shop and some loyal customers got to try it. I would have except I couldn't get over there before it was gone. Every single person said it shifts slower than Di2/EPS.

For me personally, I'll use whichever product is the best one. I think that's consistently Shimano, and I am very reticent to do anything 1st Gen with SRAM of all companies. By the time SRAM gets 2nd Gen out the door, my guess is the other two companies will have countered with products of their own and everyone will be looking around going "eh, why change loyalty?"

In short: just releasing eTap is not going to be enough. It still has to be better than Shimano and Campy and give people a real reason to change. Right now, the product is very limited, and their competition are not morons.

and now, coffee.

[chiasticon]

The 2 reviews I read said it's slightly slower and noisier than Di2 and EPS and no way to shift to rings with one hand. I'm sure there is some way to do etap 1by...I guess.

I read somewhere that you can do two shifts at once; you have to keep one paddle pressed when you release the other, after the front shift. so maybe not simultaneous, but close. I've not used it though, just going from what I read.

1X eTap will be easy for them, and we'll likely see it next fall. just move over the clutch RD mechanism and get rid of the logic for front shifting (or be able to disable it for more flexibility). I've already seen prototypes of eTap hydro on IG, and apparently some sram employees ran it in the chicago area cross races all season.

In short: just releasing eTap is not going to be enough. It still has to be better than Shimano and Campy and give people a real reason to change. Right now, the product is very limited, and their competition are not morons.it would really take a LOT to get people to change loyalty. this release is mainly just that sram fans can now join the electronic shifting party. those that like shimano/campy will go "sram still sucks, I'll wait until my groupset manufacturer goes wireless." that's probably not what sram wants, but it's the most likely outcome.

I understand the point that disc is hot right now and thinking sram should've made the group available for that and gravel as well. I just think that's a big ask, for any company. they invested a lot into the R&D of this, surely. releasing it in such a limited way, but with their top tier group, will recoup that cost and allow the tech to trickle into other products. I mean, shimano and campy both released their first e-groups the same way. the difference is just that sram's late to the party and discs/extended gearing are a bigger deal now. so they have catching up to do. that doesn't make them any more capable than shimano or campy were to be able to drop a full enough product line to appeal to and compete in all those arenas.

[sparky33]

eTap is compelling, and I don't even mind ye olde shift cables.

SRAM works for me. Guess I'm just lucky or dumb (but I doubt that).
Rim brakes do plenty of stopping on my road bike.

[oldpotatoe]

I read somewhere that you can do two shifts at once; you have to keep one paddle pressed when you release the other, after the front shift. so maybe not simultaneous, but close. I've not used it though, just going from what I read.

1X eTap will be easy for them, and we'll likely see it next fall. just move over the clutch RD mechanism and get rid of the logic for front shifting


Well, it takes both levers to shift the rear derailleur so just disableing the front Der logic won't do unless I guess 1by with both levers. But shifting with both then letting go of one and shifting the rear then shifting the rear and pushing the other for the front....yikes, real 'intuitive', what a goat rope.

[livingminimal]

I understand the point that disc is hot right now and thinking sram should've made the group available for that and gravel as well.

The market space I am actually thinking of is just the general road market.

Despite what anyone says, there are going to be a lot of people that start sitting on the sidelines waiting to see how disc plays out before committing to anything brand new and shiny.

I don't know. The whole thing is intriguing. I wish SRAM were a stronger competitor in the marketplace honestly because I do like their (mechanical) shifting style, I love their grassroots support of cross and MTB, and I like that I feel as though I am supporting the home team, especially in Chicago. But everything they do, this included, feels like amateur hour in comparison to their competition.

[chiasticon]

Well, it takes both levers to shift the rear derailleur so just disableing the front Der logic won't do unless I guess 1by with both levers. But shifting with both then letting go of one and shifting the rear then shifting the rear and pushing the other for the front....yikes, real 'intuitive', what a goat rope.well they don't have to change anything actually. it can pretend to talk to a FD when they press both paddles, even though there is none. kind of a waste though. or they can adjust this logic so that it chooses down shift or up when you press both, or does them sequentially, etc.

I guess it's not intuitive because it's not the same shifting that everyone's been using for years, but then again neither is brifter shifting to some people. I once was trying to sell an old cross bike with 105 on it to my wife's old boss. I had to drive half an hour out of my way to show him how it shifted, because it was "broken." :rolleyes:

also, I never do a double-shift. seems like you're just asking for a chain drop. maybe it's just me...?

[chiasticon]

Despite what anyone says, there are going to be a lot of people that start sitting on the sidelines waiting to see how disc plays out before committing to anything brand new and shiny.a fair point, for sure. I guess I just see most people that would want/can afford such a groupset as people who have multiple bikes, and for them disc isn't a necessity but is good for a special use type of bike - one that doesn't get the nicest goodies anyway.

[livingminimal]

also, I never do a double-shift. seems like you're just asking for a chain drop. maybe it's just me...?

Rarely had this problem on 10speed Ultegra, have never had it on 11speed ultegra, DA, or Di2 set ups. Also didn't have it on a 11sp Chorus set up I had for a long time.