Will there be a new dura ace group this year?

[dpk501]

With so many discounts on current DA gruppos and pedals, I'm wondering if a new group pho will be released this year. What do you all think the changes will be? Let the speculation begin!

[Dead Man]

I sure hope so! I've only had 9000 for a year - definitely looking forward to something making it obsolete already!

Also, I'm definitely in the mood for more gears and wheel compatibility problems. Dishing lightweight aluminum rims is difficult now, but not impossible - so it'd be cool if they could just push that one over the edge so I HAVE to use carbon hoops.

MOAR STUFF PLEZ

[Dead Man]

Maybe the next group will be disc brake only

[rnhood]

Seems like just yesterday 7900 came out, and I've yet to find anything wrong with it. I suspect the low prices on Shimano gear is more due to exchange rate variability.

[oldpotatoe]

With so many discounts on current DA gruppos and pedals, I'm wondering if a new group pho will be released this year. What do you all think the changes will be? Let the speculation begin!

Not in 2016...maybe some spy photos of possible 2017 stuff in peloton this year. only spam releases a new group after bike shops have already bought inventory(sram 11s)...

[ptourkin]

With so many discounts on current DA gruppos and pedals, I'm wondering if a new group pho will be released this year. What do you all think the changes will be? Let the speculation begin!

DA, Ultegra, 105 are on a three-year cycle and 105 came out last year, so the guess is yes. There have been rumors of a crank-based powermeter.

[shovelhd]

I could see DA hydro mechanical and Di2 groups, maybe through axle hubs and wheels, but no gearing changes.

[oldpotatoe]

I could see DA hydro mechanical and Di2 groups, maybe through axle hubs and wheels, but no gearing changes.

I'm guess for 2017, more disc stuff and an 'intuitive' front der ala XTR..'maybe' wireless or wireless 'light', hard wired ders, battery in levers.

[11.4]

Hasn't it always been a four-year cycle? They have to incorporate MTB into the cycle.

And there have always been new group sightings a year ahead of announcement. Even when Shimano first came out with hollow chainrings, a really pivotal leap forward in shifting, there were disguised photos on the web.

[velotrack]

Seems like just yesterday 7900 came out, and I've yet to find anything wrong with it. I suspect the low prices on Shimano gear is more due to exchange rate variability.

I feel you for sure. I almost feel like 9000 was released in 2015...

[dougefresh]

9000 came out in late '12 (I got a group in early '13). I bet we'll see prototype stuff on pro bikes for the classics with a TdF launch for a model year '17 revamp.

[velotrack]

What's next? Dura Ace 9100?
Dura Ace... 10000?

Make your guesses folks..

[ptourkin]

Hasn't it always been a four-year cycle? They have to incorporate MTB into the cycle.

And there have always been new group sightings a year ahead of announcement. Even when Shimano first came out with hollow chainrings, a really pivotal leap forward in shifting, there were disguised photos on the web.

Could be and it's true there haven't been any road spy sightings, however XTR and 105 are out. Maybe 2016 will be only a new (electronic) XT? Or maybe as others have said, just an incorporation of hydro disc into the existing 90xx for the classics.

[ptourkin]

What's next? Dura Ace 9100?
Dura Ace... 10000?

Make your guesses folks..

DA has been odd first numbers so 9xxx probably.

[josephr]

I think the big thing for Shimano 2016 is revising their entire mountain bike line -- even though the attention is on the new XTR electronic stuff -- but seems like a lot has been happening on the low end of the line --- this past week at my shop they were building a new X-Caliber with the latest Acera and it has a very nice hydraulic brake and shifting system. I was completely impressed at what they're selling at that pricepoint.

[djg21]

This is pure speculation, but I have to think that pressure is on Shimano (and Campy) to come to market with a wireless electronic gruppo. If they don't, they lose market share to SRAM eTap, which by all accounts is supposed to be impressive. I'd think while there may be prototype Dura Ace components in the pro peloton this season, there won't be a completely new Dura Ace group until the wireless version is ready. I'm hoping that Shimano gets going in wireless, because I'm thinking about a new bike, and would probably consider going the eTap route if Shimano doesn't get into the wireless act with a solid offering in the meantime.

[BdaGhisallo]

I wouldn't worry about Shimano giving in to pressure. I recall there being pressure on them for years to leave behind old fashioned aluminum cranks and get with the times and make carbon cranks lest they get left behind by their competitors. Yes, they made a very small run of 7800 cranks in carbon, but that was it. They stuck with what they know and aluminum it is.

If Shimano sees no advantage, or not enough to outweigh the downsides, they will stick with wires. They are stubborn like that.

[saab2000]

I wouldn't worry about Shimano giving in to pressure. I recall there being pressure on them for years to leave behind old fashioned aluminum cranks and get with the times and make carbon cranks lest they get left behind by their competitors. Yes, they made a very small run of 7800 cranks in carbon, but that was it. They stuck with what they know and aluminum it is.

If Shimano sees no advantage, or not enough to outweigh the downsides, they will stick with wires. They are stubborn like that.

They will switch if they see sales fall. It's time for a cleaner look. The wires look awful on most bikes and the under-stem junction box is poorly integrated in almost all cases. Same with Campagnolo. If there were a cleaner look, like integrating the junction box with the battery or something like that, I think more people would be OK with it. But many Di2 (and Campagnolo EPS is no better...) installations look sloppy, at best.

Sram isn't always my favorite stuff but the new wireless stuff at least looks really clean.

[Ti Designs]

What's next? Dura Ace 9100?
Dura Ace... 10000?

Make your guesses folks..

My guess is they go back to 9-speed and reintroduce 7700.

Hey, there's a better chance of that happening than my hitting the lottery...

[11.4]

I would imagine that shops would lobby intensively for wireless. Assembly, diagnostics, and parts replacements would be easy. Di2 puts off a lot of rank and file riders who don't get all the issues here, but everybody owns a phone or something that's Bluetooth or Wifi, so some form of wireless makes sense.

Plus, the next generation is going to be more about software than hardware, and integration is going to be the thing. Think about how Strava and Garmin are integrating efforts and how trainers are becoming increasingly smart. They are ahead of the components on our bikes.

Shimano has acknowledged that they have wireless prototypes and also that they are working on software integration. They like to take some baby steps at first, like integrating Di2 into Garmin, though only for the simplistic application of displaying which gear you're in, but there's a lot more on the lab benches and on test bikes. A lot of it may not need to show up at the Tour (might be interesting to see the peloton's Strava files for each stage of the Tour but the peloton really doesn't need it).

Bike equipment is like Microsoft a few years ago -- surviving on an outmoded model. A few players like Strava and Wahoo have written a new script and others like Garmin are climbing on board. We'll see a completely different kind of functionality soon. And I'd imagine that once the connections get clipped on shifting, the same will happen with braking as well. Then we can have all kinds of advances in braking control as well. Bikes in ten years are going to be nothing like what we can even imagine today, and the technology is already in place to do it. The industry just has to pick it up and incorporate it.

[bikerider888]

Nothing new due from Shimano in terms of a new DI2 group until next year. Straight from the horse's mouth.

Regarding wireless - don't hold your breath. It's a complete rework of the comms protocol since they currently use CANBUS. That's no good on wireless. Since after initial setup it's hardly noticeable I could care less about wireless.

[Ti Designs]

I would imagine that shops would lobby intensively for wireless. Assembly, diagnostics, and parts replacements would be easy. Di2 puts off a lot of rank and file riders who don't get all the issues here, but everybody owns a phone or something that's Bluetooth or Wifi, so some form of wireless makes sense.

So much for the simple and reliable bicycle... When I got into cycling, bikes were simple. The most complicated part was a ball bearing adjustment. A few wrenches were all you needed to fix any problem that didn't involve a broken part. Now it seems I can't go on a group ride without someone having issues with some sensor not pairing with their computer head. I understand that you think this is progress, but I still have to ask: Does the gain outweigh the cost?

[bikerider888]

So much for the simple and reliable bicycle... When I got into cycling, bikes were simple. The most complicated part was a ball bearing adjustment. A few wrenches were all you needed to fix any problem that didn't involve a broken part. Now it seems I can't go on a group ride without someone having issues with some sensor not pairing with their computer head. I understand that you think this is progress, but I still have to ask: Does the gain outweigh the cost?

I'll agree with you there - if the wireless shifting had the same reliability of garmin ant+ sensors I'd skip them.

I would expect Shimano to offer better reliability than Garmin's stuff, and who knows about SRAM. It's probably fine but I've never been a fan so I'm not running out to order a bike with it.

[oldpotatoe]

They will switch if they see sales fall. It's time for a cleaner look. The wires look awful on most bikes and the under-stem junction box is poorly integrated in almost all cases. Same with Campagnolo. If there were a cleaner look, like integrating the junction box with the battery or something like that, I think more people would be OK with it. But many Di2 (and Campagnolo EPS is no better...) installations look sloppy, at best.

Sram isn't always my favorite stuff but the new wireless stuff at least looks really clean.

I think the few inches of wires and teeny junction box looks far better than the big growths on the spam Ders. Plus SRAMs shifting protocol is just plain dum.

Plus name the crank models made by shimano that have 30mm spindles(Bb30/PFBB30). Shimano is huge and DA/ultegra and 105 is a teeny/tiny part of their multi billion $ company. Losing or gaining a wee bit of ground doesn't 'force' shimano.

[palincss]

I think the few inches of wires and teeny junction box looks far better than the big growths on the spam Ders. Plus SRAMs shifting protocol is just plain dum.


Why do you feel that way? What's dumb about it? (I ask in total ignorance, knowing nothing at all other than what I read in that totally laudatory article linked to at the start of this discussion.

[oldpotatoe]

Why do you feel that way? What's dumb about it? (I ask in total ignorance, knowing nothing at all other than what I read in that totally laudatory article linked to at the start of this discussion.

One lever higher gear, the other lower gear and both levers to get onto and off both rings. Even paddle shifters in cars make more sense. Scam is so married to this doubletap, one lever gig they came with something not intuitive at all. So much for right-rear, left-front shifting. Yup, it's a new and shiny piece of gear, without pretty, shiny stuff, bike mags wouldn't have anything to talk about.

But ya want complicated? How about rotor hydraulic shifting...gads.

[11.4]

Let's remember that the first electronic systems looked pretty dorky, but Shimano not only wasn't slow in coming out with Di2 but it looked a helluva lot better than its predecessors. Same for road hydraulics. They'll set their own timetable and not get rushed, but they also know they can't let a competitor get a significant edge on them -- OEM sales can shift really quickly and that's a big part of component sales. And by the way, while cycling components may be a small part of the overall Shimano empire, it doesn't mean the people running that division don't have the funding and aren't aggressive enough to move forwards promptly. Everyone still holds up their lack of a carbon crankset, but hey, they still have the stiffest and best shifting and almost the lightest crankset out there. Anyone doesn't like their hollow large chainring and how it shifts? That ain't piker technology there and I'd put it up against a carbon crank arm with a Campagnolo (sorry, Tater) flat milled chainring any day.

Also, note how Shimano has broken down their traditional cycle of group upgrades. Once it was Dura Ace, then Ultegra, then 105, then MTB, then back to Dura Ace. Now we have Dura Ace, then Ultegra, then R785, then redesigns in 105 levers before any other group, and so on. They are moving into a once-a-year design cycle and simply introducing changes in whichever group they are introducing. They aren't upgrading groups every year because shops and OEM customers can't handle that kind of product cycle. But the old cycle is definitely no longer in force.

And if you have Di2, have you really played with what you can do with Shimano's software? All kinds of programming, all kinds of alternate product configurations, and Shimano is working with Garmin and others to offer significant upgrades that are not achieved on a CNC milling machine but in lines of code. They are on that train. Anyone think that if they have modular wireless components out in the OEM market for a couple years, it will put immense pressure on SRAM and Campy? And it'll be the end of the small players like FSA. The minute bikes stop shipping with cable stops, it's a strictly Di2 world; the minute bikes stop shipping with any provisions for wiring, it's a strictly wireless world.

I'm not talking about this year, because at this point Di2 is gaining ground at a ferocious rate and I'd never advise Shimano to introduce a new technology before they've gotten the big jump out of Di2. But as soon as Di2 starts to saturate (and with Di2 in low-end groups, it's going to do that this next year), wireless will be here. And I suspect brake-by-wire or brake-by-wireless will be there as well. Braking is a whole technology where we're still using technology from Model T days and the progressives with disc brakes are using what the rest of the transportation world has had for fifty years. We have the very beginning of heads-up displays for cycling, but they will be easier to implement and be very effective -- again, with wireless. In short, I think wireless is essential and will drive technology development in a number of areas in cycling, and will be a critical tool for Shimano to enforce itself on the whole OEM world. Next year will be very interesting.

[kittytrail]

don't forget automated wireless charging stations for all those batteries 'cause most cyclists will forget to charge one -or more- battery be that the Garmin/Strava comp/GPS, various sensors around the bike, shifters(one each?), brake levers, brakes, derailers, front and rear, tail light/front light, etc. :eek:

sorry, me's gotta get off this train before it even enters the station. :no:

[velotrack]

I wish I could add here, but there are some real insightful comments on this thread. I'm looking forward to seeing what this next generation of components will bring, even if it means my current stuff will lose its value :)

[KWalker]

Been told a few things:

-Wireless di2 dropping in the Fall. Rumored to be configurable to be fully sequential as an option.

-New, smaller hydro/disc levers

-Fully integrated crank-based PM. Bigger rumor is a much updated Flight Deck for the above di2, made in partnership with a big third party electronics manufacturer

[bikerider888]

Been told a few things:

-Wireless di2 dropping in the Fall. Rumored to be configurable to be fully sequential as an option.

-New, smaller hydro/disc levers

-Fully integrated crank-based PM. Bigger rumor is a much updated Flight Deck for the above di2, made in partnership with a big third party electronics manufacturer

Whoever told you that is misinformed. Unless they are an exec with Shimano I say that is absolutely not true.

[11.4]

Whoever told you that is misinformed. Unless they are an exec with Shimano I say that is absolutely not true.


There have been so many leaks from store personnel and distributors who used to get advance previews that the only people who really get to see the important developments today are on the technology side. Think about it.

[livingminimal]

Whoever told you that is misinformed. Unless they are an exec with Shimano I say that is absolutely not true.


Curious, what part about this seems unreasonable?

[djg21]

Been told a few things:

-Wireless di2 dropping in the Fall. Rumored to be configurable to be fully sequential as an option.

-New, smaller hydro/disc levers

-Fully integrated crank-based PM. Bigger rumor is a much updated Flight Deck for the above di2, made in partnership with a big third party electronics manufacturer

Even if this isn't 100% accurate and the upgrades are vaporware, it is in Shimano's interest to leak information like this and dissuade consumers from purchasing now (and purchasing eTap). But it isn't a stretch to anticipate that this is the direction Shimano will be going. The question is when, not if.

[11.4]

Even if this isn't 100% accurate and the upgrades are vaporware, it is in Shimano's interest to leak information like this and dissuade consumers from purchasing now (and purchasing eTap). But it isn't a stretch to anticipate that this is the direction Shimano will be going. The question is when, not if.

It's actually bad business to put out misleading information. It has securities fraud implications where Shimano securities are traded (including debt issues) and it damages Shimano's credibility because their initial conversations are primarily oriented towards OEM and any OEM would be furious if they were intentionally misled. That's simply not how it works.

Shimano simply has ongoing technical developments and confidential trials going, along with confidential negotiations for OEM contracts, which will be the first of any new groups to get committed. In terms of timeframe, you and I are far far down the road.

[oldpotatoe]

Even if this isn't 100% accurate and the upgrades are vaporware, it is in Shimano's interest to leak information like this and dissuade consumers from purchasing now (and purchasing eTap). But it isn't a stretch to anticipate that this is the direction Shimano will be going. The question is when, not if.

I think you overestimate how much shimano is 'swayed' by what they see and hear in the 'market'. They observe, decide if there is a market for some whidget, they design and build. Their $ and interest is in OEM, mostly lower end stuff in $400-$500(and cheaper) bikes, and they equip a bazillion of those. We see what pros use but in reality, high end stuff, DA/SR/Record/red is a teeny tiny part of the market. shimano will do what they want to do. They know about things like etapp but they knew about headsets and 30mm crank spindles too but you see what they make.

But it doesn't really matter, nice to discuss, what's on the horizon for the 3 group makers, but in reality, not many of us really know. I was surprised at 9s..since I thought 8s was really whiz-bang.

[chiltonp]

I''m close to jumping on 9000 for my next ride, so probably ride after i get it they'll announce 9100. :mad: