Anybody Carry a Weapon While Cycling?

[PFSLABD]

I used to carry a .25 caliber under my seat, but I quit doing that, because let's face it. I love animals and definitely didn't want to shoot somebody's dog, who's only doing what dogs do. The owners are the ones, who need to control their animals. Other than that, I have never seen the need to carry one. In the winter, I wouldn't be able to get to it with bunny hands, and in the summer, it would rust in my jersey pocket. It's just not doable.

I saw this same thread on another forum, so thought I would broach the subject here as well.

[FlashUNC]

God no.

[R3awak3n]

i think there was a thread just like this last year, I think it was closed or it wasn't going very well.


the only reason I would cary a weapon while cycling is if I was out in alaska, everywhere else I would leave it at home.

[Bflath]

No

[AngryScientist]

this topic has been covered a number of times here, a quick search should show the prior threads on the matter.

me - i'm always packin' and anyone who's interested can have a ticket to the gun show :)

http://image2.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/compositions/1001159573/views/1,width=235,height=235,appearanceId=1,backgroundCo lor=f9f9f9/Sun%E2%80%99s-Out-Guns-Out.jpg

[Lewis Moon]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-_uGEuYuJ4hbJmm/serenity_2005_fighting_the_reavers/

[ofcounsel]

I've thought about carrying a weapon of some sort while mountain biking at night. I likely wouldn't carry a gun, but maybe a knife of some sort.

[livingminimal]

···· no. Why? Why do I need to be armed to go ride my bicycle?

[azrider]

Ugh. Dude try the "search" function.

Read up here on guns: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=164850&highlight=firearm


Thread closed. Thanks.

[cinema]

I carry a pocket knife daily during/commutes. Does that count

[fiamme red]

this topic has been covered a number of times here, a quick search should show the prior threads on the matter.http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=163785 (closed)

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=164850 (open)

[rwsaunders]

Epipen.

[wpod]

NO...and frankly abhor the notion.

[rnhood]

Normally not, but on the few occasions that I ride alone in a remote area I will carry one. Its more for a rogue dog though.

[MattTuck]

How else are you going to celebrate your strava KOMs?

http://www.dr.dk/images/other/2015/06/26/0b8384cb-cbb6-4300-8fe7-fa8c9f0d3002_20140315-173431-2-1000x666we.jpg


Yee Haw.

[tuscanyswe]

it can't be good to store a gun under the seat. Are you listening Rapha!? bound to be a market for "cross holsters" in due time for those bumpy rides.

[sokyroadie]

ï½·ï½·ï½·ï½· no. Why? Why do I need to be armed to go ride my bicycle?

Because if you lived where I do and there are NO leash laws................

I have been taken down twice in the last 3 years by dogs running loose, one time it was by a dog that had never chased B4. I have been cornered before by a pack of 5 dogs that came out from a house - all seemed very vicious.

I have informed the owners that they are liable for any damages and have been laughed at threatened etc.

I plan on packing this year.

YMMV

Jeff

[gasman]

I have carried pepper spray while mtn biking alone when passing through areas where I thought there might be pot grows. Did have to use it once near the top of a climb against a very aggressive dog that came out of nowhere. I got off my bike keeping the bike between me and him. One quick spray and he was done.

A gun ? Never.

[mistermo]

I have carried pepper spray while mtn biking alone when passing through areas where I thought there might be pot grows. Did have to use it once near the top of a climb against a very aggressive dog that came out of nowhere. I got off my bike keeping the bike between me and him. One quick spray and he was done.

A gun ? Never.
For the uninitiated of us, do pot growers keep their plots protected by vicious dogs?

[PFSLABD]

i think there was a thread just like this last year, I think it was closed or it wasn't going very well.


the only reason I would cary a weapon while cycling is if I was out in alaska, everywhere else I would leave it at home.

Some friends of mine went backpacking in the Gates of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and before they went, the rangers told them to carry firearms. One guy carried a .357 Magnum, and the rangers asked them if they were planning to shoot each other. It just wasn't enough firepower. They should have been carrying a .323 or .370 magnum rifle. I would carry at least a .12 guage shotgun.

Well, since this thread has already been started last year, I suggest the moderators combine the two threads, and we'll see where the thread goes.

[malcolm]

Because if you lived where I do and there are NO leash laws................

I have been taken down twice in the last 3 years by dogs running loose, one time it was by a dog that had never chased B4. I have been cornered before by a pack of 5 dogs that came out from a house - all seemed very vicious.

I have informed the owners that they are liable for any damages and have been laughed at threatened etc.

I plan on packing this year.

YMMV

Jeff

Do you plan to shoot these dogs??
Don't you think bear spray may be a better choice?
If you shoot one of these dogs I see this escalating into a made for TV movie.

[zap]

No.

[PFSLABD]

it can't be good to store a gun under the seat. Are you listening Rapha!? bound to be a market for "cross holsters" in due time for those bumpy rides.

I had it strapped under the seat because a guy had threatened my life. It was too much hassle to keep it strapped under the seat, and the straps kept loosening. The police wouldn't do anything about the guy until he did something. Great police protection we have out here.

[ceolwulf]

Does a frame pump count?

[Chris]

Nunchucks

[ceolwulf]

Nunchucks


You could use two minipumps and a toe strap.

[Repack Rider]

I carried a WEAPON while I was in the US Army. You had better not call it a "gun" if you don't want to do a hundred pushups.

In the Army I had a use for one. On my bike, I can't imagine adding a few pounds of useless metal to something I paid a lot just to take the same amount of weight off.

[kramnnim]

I sharpen the teeth of worn out cassette sprockets and use them as shuriken. (aka ninja throwing stars)

[metalheart]

Some friends of mine went backpacking in the Gates of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and before they went, the rangers told them to carry firearms. One guy carried a .357 Magnum, and the rangers asked them if they were planning to shoot each other. It just wasn't enough firepower. They should have been carrying a .323 or .370 magnum rifle. I would carry at least a .12 guage shotgun.

Well, since this thread has already been started last year, I suggest the moderators combine the two threads, and we'll see where the thread goes.

I have done a number of fishing trips to the interior of Kodiak where, the story goes, bears outnumber people on the Island. Before the float plane dropped me off on my first trip, I asked a friend who is a hunting guide on Kodiak about if I should take a weapon. He replied that a .45 should do it. I looked at him quizzically and asked if that was enough power. He replied, "if a bear is charging you, one shot to your head should kill you more quickly than the bear will." In other words, it takes both power, know-how, and presence of mind to kill a charging Kodiak. He offered lots of advice about how to act around bears and I took it. I encountered a number of them, many close, and we all went home ok....

[R3awak3n]

I carried a WEAPON while I was in the US Army. You had better not call it a "gun" if you don't want to do a hundred pushups.

In the Army I had a use for one. On my bike, I can't imagine adding a few pounds of useless metal to something I paid a lot just to take the same amount of weight off.

apparently there is weight weenie guns

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/Mos-Carbon-detail-Hero.jpg

[bcroslin]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e8/1b/ba/e81bba795a349fd03081aca889f8ff1c.jpg

[Repack Rider]

Some friends of mine went backpacking in the Gates of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and before they went, the rangers told them to carry firearms. One guy carried a .357 Magnum, and the rangers asked them if they were planning to shoot each other. It just wasn't enough firepower. They should have been carrying a .323 or .370 magnum rifle. I would carry at least a .12 guage shotgun.

All my army experience was with a rifle, never took the pistol course.

Toured in Canada's NorthWest Territory, where grizzlies outnumber people. Host was a bear biologist who in the course of his work had killed two grizzlies with his .44 pistol. Said the only reason he could do that was because the nation of Canada had paid for enough ammo that he got to be a pretty good shot, and besides, one of them was climbing in the passenger door of his car.

Said that a pistol would be useless in untrained because without all that practice all it was going to do is piss the bear off enough to kill whoever was holding it. Not to mention that as an American citizen it was illegal there for me to possess a handgun. Being a bear expert, he told me and my riding companions that if the bear knew we were coming, the bear would move out of the way. so we whistled,and sang the entire six days of the ride.

[Joachim]

Yes always

[firerescuefin]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=108185&highlight=concealed+weapons

[ultraman6970]

In my country one of my team mates carried a small gun, and so far i knew like 3 more were carrying guns too, one of them was assaulted twice before he started carrying a weapon.

[PQJ]

For the uninitiated of us, do pot growers keep their plots protected by vicious dogs?

Do a search for 'humboldt county' and you'll come upon some pretty interesting articles about what goes on there. I think even the police are afraid to go into some of those areas. And not because of just dogs.

[ultraman6970]

Because of Sasquatch right??

[OtayBW]

I have done a number of fishing trips to the interior of Kodiak where, the story goes, bears outnumber people on the Island. Before the float plane dropped me off on my first trip, I asked a friend who is a hunting guide on Kodiak about if I should take a weapon. He replied that a .45 should do it. I looked at him quizzically and asked if that was enough power. He replied, "if a bear is charging you, one shot to your head should kill you more quickly than the bear will." ....Ha ha ha! :D

[dave thompson]

I used to carry a .25 caliber under my seat, but I quit doing that, because let's face it. I love animals and definitely didn't want to shoot somebody's dog, who's only doing what dogs do. The owners are the ones, who need to control their animals. Other than that, I have never seen the need to carry one. In the winter, I wouldn't be able to get to it with bunny hands, and in the summer, it would rust in my jersey pocket. It's just not doable.

I saw this same thread on another forum, so thought I would broach the subject here as well.

Heh. I used to be in the firearms biz and would tell customers who asked about carrying a mouse gun: if you ever shoot anyone with a .25 cal and they find out about it, they're going to be pissed!

[Burnette]

OK, so if you didn't mean to start yet another gun thread, change the narrative.
What you are seeking are dog detterent solutions of the non life ending sort.
Easy peasy. I personally have been around dogs early in my life and believe myself to be a bit of a dog whisperer. Never has a situation with dog or dogs arose to where I didn't have the tools to deal with it. And I'm not sure you could duplicate what I do if I wrote it down for you. It's a learned and experienced thing.
Best advice I can give is to not go that route where you had issues and do call the police if a dog owner is "letting the dogs out" when you ride by.
Done. You're welcome.

[rrudoff]

But the whole idea of Cyclocross-Biathlon seems kind of cool??

[AngryScientist]

my honest answer to this thread, is that i feel lucky that i live and ride in places where i would never consider riding with a weapon.

[PFSLABD]

OK, so if you didn't mean to start yet another gun thread, change the narrative.
What you are seeking are dog detterent solutions of the non life ending sort.
Easy peasy. I personally have been around dogs early in my life and believe myself to be a bit of a dog whisperer. Never has a situation with dog or dogs arose to where I didn't have the tools to deal with it. And I'm not sure you could duplicate what I do if I wrote it down for you. It's a learned and experienced thing.
Best advice I can give is to not go that route where you had issues and do call the police if a dog owner is "letting the dogs out" when you ride by.
Done. You're welcome.

Wow, you're a legend among us peons. I feel honored to have conversed with you.

[PFSLABD]

my honest answer to this thread, is that i feel lucky that i live and ride in places where i would never consider riding with a weapon.

The guy, who threatened my life passed away due to a hospital surgery. He was the most hated and feared individual in the area. He never went anywhere without his .44 magnum, and never would venture away from his truck where he kept it if in a confrontation. Yeah, he had a record, not a .45 rpm type.

[livingminimal]

Because if you lived where I do and there are NO leash laws................

I have been taken down twice in the last 3 years by dogs running loose, one time it was by a dog that had never chased B4. I have been cornered before by a pack of 5 dogs that came out from a house - all seemed very vicious.

I have informed the owners that they are liable for any damages and have been laughed at threatened etc.

I plan on packing this year.

YMMV

Jeff


This is absolutely justification for carrying something. Definitely. If for no other reason to fire warning shots, or perhaps to carry mace. (don't confuse it with your embro)

[PFSLABD]

Heh. I used to be in the firearms biz and would tell customers who asked about carrying a mouse gun: if you ever shoot anyone with a .25 cal and they find out about it, they're going to be pissed!

That's good. Yeah, I thought the same thing, but it was the only thing small enough that I could carry. I know the Ruger LC-9 is a great little gun that carries some impact, but even that is heavy. It might be mostly plastic, but the slide and barrel provide the weight as well as a fully loaded magazine.

[PFSLABD]

All my army experience was with a rifle, never took the pistol course.

Toured in Canada's NorthWest Territory, where grizzlies outnumber people. Host was a bear biologist who in the course of his work had killed two grizzlies with his .44 pistol. Said the only reason he could do that was because the nation of Canada had paid for enough ammo that he got to be a pretty good shot, and besides, one of them was climbing in the passenger door of his car.

Said that a pistol would be useless in untrained because without all that practice all it was going to do is piss the bear off enough to kill whoever was holding it. Not to mention that as an American citizen it was illegal there for me to possess a handgun. Being a bear expert, he told me and my riding companions that if the bear knew we were coming, the bear would move out of the way. so we whistled,and sang the entire six days of the ride.

I used to hike up in Glacier National Park, MT, not far from Banff National Park. Grizzlies were a problem. I never carried any weapon, other than a buck knife, but we were told to wear bear bells, to alert the bears that we were coming down the trail. That was back when America would not allow any visitor to the park to carry guns, other than rangers.

[PFSLABD]

Yes always

Back before I retired, on the home commute, I wished I could have one of them to get rid of the slow pokes on the highway.:bike::D

[William]

:d

[christian]

I plan on packing this year.I don't like dogs much. I don't have a problem with guns. But shooting dogs with a handgun from a moving bicycle is not a solution I'd recommend to anyone other than Chuck Norris.

[Cicli]

Hell yeah. This here is 'Merica.

[johnniecakes]

When I ride alone I will usually have a small 9mm in the center pocket of my jersey. Never had any reason yet to think about getting out. But refuse to be unprepared to defend myself. Within 25 miles of home there has been 3 incidents of single riders being attacked. One resulted in a fatality, not the cyclist. He was able to discharge his gun after he was knocked to the ground by 2 youths.

[Dead Man]

I've commented on where I ride before... in a nutshell, it's some impoverished, backwoods, sometimes scary-hillbilly stuff out here. And the best climbs are home to the scariest billys. I get chased by mean dogs frequently, and get shouted and glared at fairly often (though most of the shouts come from people lower down in the valley - the hillbillies tend to just stare hard, and shout at their man-eating dogs growling at me). I've considered carrying a gun for a while... have gone back and forth on the issue.

For dogs, I finally decided I am not going to shoot any, whether I have a pistol or not. Mini-pump with and end wrapped up with electrical tape makes a pretty decent blunt force weapon, and pepper spray is lightweight and seems to be generally effective for dogs (I haven't yet had occasion to use it). The thing is - I am the only cyclist out here... if I call the police, or shoot someone's dog, they're gonna know who it was. And that means I'm never riding that road again... and I love these roads. I'd rather blast a mutt in the face with some pepper spray and ride off - owner might still flip out, but at least I've done no permanent damage.

However.... there are some occasional other situations for which I'm still considering carrying a little mouse-gun on the bike. There are some turnoffs at summits on some of my favorite climbs where it seems shady types like to congregate in their cars... selling drugs? Using drugs? Disposing of bodies? Who ····ing knows... but the stares I've gotten have been pretty doggon unsettling.. as I come huffing and puffing up a huge climb and sllllooowwllly peddle by.

One particularly unsettling even happened last time I rode Pisgah Home, west of Scappoose.... biggest, nastiest climb I've ever found.. very remote, usually don't see a single person for hours out there.. It's raining cats and dogs, it's mid-day but the clouds are so thick it's like dusk.. I'm coming up "the Big Wall" toward the top of the climb - probably a quarter mile of 15-20% straight up.. clearcut on the right, canyon on the left.. as I come around the last corner to start up the Big Wall, I see a ····ty old minivan pulled off on the canyon side, and people moving around. I'm dying from the climb, so I'm not paying too much attention.. but at 6-7mph, it takes a hell of a long time to get anywhere... peddle, peddle, peddle, I finally realize they're throwing trash bags off into the canyon. GREAT... out here all alone, unarmed, and I'm witness to a crime. As I finally, agonizingly slowly peddle up and pass them, all four of them are just sitting/standing there staring straight at me, watching me huff my way up... cigarette smoke and unwashed bodies on the air...

[Tony T]

Pepper spray should be enough protection.

[Skenry]

Good for him.
I generally have a 380 with me. Unfortunately I have reached the age that I am a handlebar bag kind of guy. Makes carrying easy. On or off the bike, its usually with me. Or a different one.

The knife is always present, always.


Also been considering one of these :
http://www.doubletapdefense.com

Cheap, light and small.

Be safe out there. Practice with whatever you get.
Scott

[Dead Man]

Good for him.
I generally have a 380 with me. Unfortunately I have reached the age that I am a handlebar bag kind of guy. Makes carrying easy. On or off the bike, its usually with me. Or a different one.

The knife is always present, always.


Also been considering one of these :
http://www.doubletapdefense.com

Cheap, light and small.

Be safe out there. Practice with whatever you get.
Scott

Guy in that video says the Ti version is 2oz heavier than the aluminum??

That's a pretty slick little setup, though... definitely appealing as a "better than nothing at all" bike gun.

[biker72]

Three years ago I would have said no to packing a gun when riding my bike.

Since then there have been multiple robberies on the Dallas Katy Trail and one murder on the White Rock Trail. I've got a conceal carry liscense and now carry a .380 when I ride into Dallas.

[mistermo]

Three years ago I would have said no to packing a gun when riding my bike.

Since then there have been multiple robberies on the Dallas Katy Trail and one murder on the White Rock Trail. I've got a conceal carry liscense and now carry a .380 when I ride into Dallas.
^Texas

[William]

Many of you already understand this, but I will mention it anyway:

Whatever tool you decide to EDC (or EDBC in this case), make sure that you practice and train fairly regularly in its usage. How it works, how to deploy quickly, deployment under duress, as well as deescalation skills and lastly...be prepared to clearly explain why you felt threatened enough to use it after the fact (if it ever comes to that).

I fall into the always be prepared camp, but I'm also a firm believer in adequate training if you choose to be prepared for self preservation.









William

[soulspinner]

epipen.

:d

[TMB]

All my army experience was with a rifle, never took the pistol course.

Toured in Canada's NorthWest Territory, where grizzlies outnumber people. Host was a bear biologist who in the course of his work had killed two grizzlies with his .44 pistol. Said the only reason he could do that was because the nation of Canada had paid for enough ammo that he got to be a pretty good shot, and besides, one of them was climbing in the passenger door of his car.

Said that a pistol would be useless in untrained because without all that practice all it was going to do is piss the bear off enough to kill whoever was holding it. Not to mention that as an American citizen it was illegal there for me to possess a handgun. Being a bear expert, he told me and my riding companions that if the bear knew we were coming, the bear would move out of the way. so we whistled,and sang the entire six days of the ride.

I always have bear bells hanging from my saddle or back pack when on my mountain bike or trail riding.

Always.

I live in a place where it is not uncommon to see bears in my back yard.

I would never consider carrying a weapon of any sort.

[brockd15]

Many of you already understand this, but I will mention it anyway:

Whatever tool you decide to EDC (or EDBC in this case), make sure that you practice and train fairly regularly in its usage. How it works, how to deploy quickly, deployment under duress, as well as deescalation skills and lastly...be prepared to clearly explain why you felt threatened enough to use it after the fact (if it ever comes to that).

I fall into the always be prepared camp, but I'm also a firm believer in adequate training if you choose to be prepared for self preservation.









William

Same here. Being prepared while out on the bike is really no different than being prepared in any other circumstance, but it is a little more difficult with the lycra and such.

I considered carrying on the bike in TX but never found a good way to do it, aside from a handlebar bag, which I didn't want to do. In CA it's a moot point, it's really difficult to get licensed for concealed carry, and I'm not, so I don't.

But for those who have or do, what holster do you use if you carry on-body (as opposed to on-bike)?

[trentschler]

I carry a pen.

[PeregrineA1]

I don't, but if I did, it would be this, as Seecamp LWS32 while riding a Colnago Arabesque...
http://seecamp.com/images/DommersEngraved380.jpg

[malcolm]

When I hear people say they are just being prepared I have to admit I don't get it for most people. Most of us are far more likely to die in a car wreck than to be accosted and shot. So from a mitigating risk standpoint you would be better off wearing a helmet when you drive your car.

[Rimbaud]

I haven't tried it myself, but I've seen pepper spray used on an aggressive dog and it worked amazingly well. Although the sprayer was on foot rather than riding a bike.

I've considered carrying it myself, as I've actually been bitten on my bike before (many years ago), but haven't committed. As I get to where I can't out-sprint dogs as well due to advancing years perhaps I'll go that route.

I have no inclination to carry a handgun while riding, and I already own a pistol that would be suitable.

[djg21]

Pepper spray should be enough protection.

Kimber Pepperblaster 2

[biker72]

Many of you already understand this, but I will mention it anyway:

Whatever tool you decide to EDC (or EDBC in this case), make sure that you practice and train fairly regularly in its usage. How it works, how to deploy quickly, deployment under duress, as well as deescalation skills and lastly...be prepared to clearly explain why you felt threatened enough to use it after the fact (if it ever comes to that).

I fall into the always be prepared camp, but I'm also a firm believer in adequate training if you choose to be prepared for self preservation.

William

I took the Texas concealed carry class that was about 10 hours long. Nine of those hours was devoted to de escalation and ways to avoid using a gun. You're responsible for where that bullet goes. If you take a shot at a thug trying to harm you and accidently hit the little girl next door, you are in big trouble.

I'm 77 years old and a much more vulnerable target than I was at 50. Just trying to even out the odds a little. Pulling a gun will be my last resort.

[Bruce K]

One of the local firearms clubs did a biathlon with bikes and .22LR rifles

Rifles stayed in the range and off the bikes

People say it was a hoot

BK

[William]

When I hear people say they are just being prepared I have to admit I don't get it for most people. Most of us are far more likely to die in a car wreck than to be accosted and shot. So from a mitigating risk standpoint you would be better off wearing a helmet when you drive your car.

Well, wearing a seatbelt is good is case something happens. Airbags are in the car in case something ever happens. You may never really need them, but you have them just in case.





William

[malcolm]

Well, wearing a seatbelt is good is case something happens. Airbags are in the car in case something ever happens. You may never really need them, but you have them just in case.





William

I agree William and if CCW is legal I support anyone's right to do and I also agree if you choose to go that route make sure you can safely and effectively use your weapon of choice.
My only point is from a mitigation of risk standpoint there are many things that are way more likely to harm most of us than our need to protect our self from a violent attacker. Helmet in addition to seat belts and air bags would probably be more useful, but hey we all pick and choose. I do understand the better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it mentality.

[rileystylee]

Wow, it's interesting how many people carry guns in the us. In the Uk its unthinkable unless you're a crim!
I've never even held a gun but sometimes wish I had a baseball bat to deal with dogs off leads and some drivers:beer:

[CSTRider]

Just can't imagine riding with a gun, although i would carry pepper spray if riding MTB in grizzly country. If you're prepared and have the element of surprise on your side, pepper spray can be very effective against human predators as seen here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpIjtVDqiIg).

[gasman]

For the uninitiated of us, do pot growers keep their plots protected by vicious dogs?

Yes, some do and the dogs are not tied up. This one was a pit bull mix but a very short burst of pepper spray changed his mind about me.

[Tickdoc]

I love guns but I don't have a concealed carry permit. I will take my chances. No bears where I live, but plenty of dogs, and rednecks. I've suffered plenty of one finger waves, hoops and hollars, been hit by a beer can (thankfully not a bottle), not to mention many near misses with trucks, trailers, trucks with trailers, trailers with trucks...(trucks outnumber cars where I live).

When I was younger I used a frame pump to fend off dogs, but now I just ignore them or land a well placed lugie in their face. So long as they don't cross your path most just want to chase for fun or guard their front yard.

I did Kill a dog once while riding. In a weird bit of timing, a large dog and small dog ran out in front of me. Large dog put on the brakes, small dog didn't, and his neck met my front tire as I was traveling nearly 30mph on a slight downhill. Sorry for the little bugger, but still glad I didn't wreck.

I ride sketchy parts of our trail system at times but have had no encounters yet. They are welcome to my $20, and even my bike at gunpoint. Anything short of that, though, and it will be elbows and assholes with all that adrenaline flowing.

Life is risky and riding just adds a bit to that, but the payoff!

[DarkStar]

I used to hike up in Glacier National Park, MT, not far from Banff National Park. Grizzlies were a problem. I never carried any weapon, other than a buck knife, but we were told to wear bear bells, to alert the bears that we were coming down the trail. That was back when America would not allow any visitor to the park to carry guns, other than rangers.Biked south of there, Banff, only time I've wished for a weapon, bear tracks all over the area.

[93legendti]

Many of you already understand this, but I will mention it anyway:

Whatever tool you decide to EDC (or EDBC in this case), ... and lastly...be prepared to clearly explain why you felt threatened enough to use it after the fact (if it ever comes to that)....

William

I'd say that is not the best legal advice. In my CPL class the officer reiterated several times that when calling the police, merely to say "there has been a shooting, please send help". When the police arrive state: "I was worried for my safety (or the safety of a loved one)" and ask for an attorney. Period.

Even after a 100% justified shooting, the stress and adrenaline of the event would make it hard to avoid possibly incriminating comments. Why risk it? Legally, you are not required to an explanation to the police.

The clear explanation is for your attorney who has your best interests at heart.

If I was to carry on the bike, it would be this:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kel-tec-pmr-30-range-report/

[sg8357]

You're responsible for where that bullet goes. If you take a shot at a thug trying to harm you and accidently hit the little girl next door, you are in big trouble.


If you shoot anyone for any reason you are in big trouble,
say goodbye to your worldly wealth first, figure on 3 years
funding lawyers. Sort of like bailing out of a plane, the plane
being the life you used to live.

Think how much fun the decedents lawyer will have with this thread.

[Ronsonic]

But the whole idea of Cyclocross-Biathlon seems kind of cool??

The target shooting is cool but doesn't serve a greater purpose. I propose we
make the Florida Biathlon an official sport. Everybody heads off into the woods with the bike and firearm of choice and who ever drops the most tonnage of wild pig, with a 10 pound per head bonus, in the day wins.

Everybody should play this game. All the time. Until there is no more game to play.

Don't wait for it to become official, like Nike says, just do it.

[jimcav]

when i was a kid, my dad was competitive runner and i would ride with him (carrying water) on 20 mile runs, very rural. After the 1st dog attack took me off the bike (owner was present and the dog did leave instantly when called), he carried a tiny (palm sized) 5-shot 22 with 4 bird shot rounds and one 22LR. I can recall 3 times he used it over the years, all were german shepherd mixes and he fired early, but as soon as they left their property and chased us. I think the sound did most of it, the 1st time the bird shot might have been part of it.
anyway, as i've been thinking about retiring, a part of me wanted to go somewhere more rural, affordable, near great riding. I always ride with a knife, but mainly for utility (fast to cut off tubular) or whatever, not really for "defense" as it is usually in my camelback.

If i really felt i needed something to protect me, I'd ride with a go pro and my cell that could upload with one touch to youtube, and if needing to physically protect myself I think i would go some sort of taser route or even try to modify a cattle prod to fit like a frame pump, so i could pull it out if needed. i'd still always ride with a knife--as they say on NCIS rule# whatever, always have knife.

[parris]

One thing to be VERY VERY VERY aware and careful of with pepper spray is the direction of your travel and wind. Having dealt with it for the better part of 20 years and catching my fair share of it during use of force encounters as well as training I can say that it's not the most "fun" experience to deal with. Think going at speed and you're suddenly blinded and can't breath because it's doing the job it's designed to do.

There's also some newish mixes out that we've been issued that are very potent. Just something to know for anyone who's carrying it.

[PFSLABD]

Does a frame pump count?

Only if loaded with buck shot.

[PFSLABD]

You could use two minipumps and a toe strap.

Hah! Hah!

[PFSLABD]

I carried a WEAPON while I was in the US Army. You had better not call it a "gun" if you don't want to do a hundred pushups.

In the Army I had a use for one. On my bike, I can't imagine adding a few pounds of useless metal to something I paid a lot just to take the same amount of weight off.

This is my rifle, it is for fighting, this is my gun, it is for fun.

[Dead Man]

This is my rifle, it is for fighting, this is my gun, it is for fun.

Close.. but not quite.

[PFSLABD]

OK, so if you didn't mean to start yet another gun thread, change the narrative.
What you are seeking are dog detterent solutions of the non life ending sort.
Easy peasy. I personally have been around dogs early in my life and believe myself to be a bit of a dog whisperer. Never has a situation with dog or dogs arose to where I didn't have the tools to deal with it. And I'm not sure you could duplicate what I do if I wrote it down for you. It's a learned and experienced thing.
Best advice I can give is to not go that route where you had issues and do call the police if a dog owner is "letting the dogs out" when you ride by.
Done. You're welcome.

I dated some dogs.

[PFSLABD]

When I ride alone I will usually have a small 9mm in the center pocket of my jersey. Never had any reason yet to think about getting out. But refuse to be unprepared to defend myself. Within 25 miles of home there has been 3 incidents of single riders being attacked. One resulted in a fatality, not the cyclist. He was able to discharge his gun after he was knocked to the ground by 2 youths.

Some friends of mine were threatened by a driver last Sunday morning. I guess he was late for church.

[PFSLABD]

If you shoot anyone for any reason you are in big trouble,
say goodbye to your worldly wealth first, figure on 3 years
funding lawyers. Sort of like bailing out of a plane, the plane
being the life you used to live.

Think how much fun the decedents lawyer will have with this thread.

I have never known a decent lawyer yet.

[PFSLABD]

One thing to be VERY VERY VERY aware and careful of with pepper spray is the direction of your travel and wind. Having dealt with it for the better part of 20 years and catching my fair share of it during use of force encounters as well as training I can say that it's not the most "fun" experience to deal with. Think going at speed and you're suddenly blinded and can't breath because it's doing the job it's designed to do.

There's also some newish mixes out that we've been issued that are very potent. Just something to know for anyone who's carrying it.

When I'm trying to hang onto the back of the pack, I know all about that anaerobic feeling of not being able to breathe, and the last time we were riding in the fog. Yeah, I couldn't see either. Thank God for flashing tail lights.

[Burnette]

So you're answering every post with awkward one liners?
Is this a weird post count boosting thing or just boredom?

[William]

I'd say that is not the best legal advice. In my CPL class the officer reiterated several times that when calling the police, merely to say "there has been a shooting, please send help". When the police arrive state: "I was worried for my safety (or the safety of a loved one)" and ask for an attorney. Period.

Even after a 100% justified shooting, the stress and adrenaline of the event would make it hard to avoid possibly incriminating comments. Why risk it? Legally, you are not required to an explanation to the police.

The clear explanation is for your attorney who has your best interests at heart.

If I was to carry on the bike, it would be this:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kel-tec-pmr-30-range-report/


To be clear, I meant in court, not your explanation when the LE arrives.





William

[93legendti]

To be clear, I meant in court, not your explanation when the LE arrives.





William

Ok, glad we are on same page

[PFSLABD]

So you're answering every post with awkward one liners?
Is this a weird post count boosting thing or just boredom?

I thought this was a discussion forum and a place to have fun. I'm sorry if you don't feel that way. Perhaps you should ride more.

[rain dogs]

Threads like this make me realize how much from a different planet, on this same planet, is America and American culture.

Asking about carrying a gun on a bike ride (in my world) will get the same reaction as if someone asked if I would carry:

a live chicken
a sprinkler head
a motherboard
a parachute

those things may be just one degree away from what I desire (food, water, data) when bicycling and enjoying a bike... but really?

I'm not judging or pitying anyone, but it must be a effing drag to live where you have to think about carrying a gun to go enjoy your bike and the outdoors and imagine you're safer doing so. :eek: :(

[oldpotatoe]

Threads like this make me realize how much from a different planet, on this same planet, is America and American culture.

Asking about carrying a gun on a bike ride (in my world) will get the same reaction as if someone asked if I would carry:

a live chicken
a sprinkler head
a motherboard

those things may be just one degree away from what I desire (food, water, data) when bicycling and enjoying a bike... but really?

I'm not judging or pitying anyone, but it must be a effing drag to live where you have to think about carrying a gun to go enjoy your bike and the outdoors and imagine you're safer doing so. :eek: :(

The chances of actually needing a gun on a bike ride because of a 'bad guy with a gun' are probably about the same as needing a hermetically sealed container to put a piece of the asteroid that fell next to you.....

BUT, gotta say, with the wackos out there, when I am nannying my grand daughters, I think seriously about carrying a weapon.

An 'armed society' doesn't make for a 'polite society', regardless of what the guys in the NRA's pocket say, it makes for a dangerous society.

But strange times.

But no, I don't 'pack' when riding. Tough enough to get up that hill.

[AJM100]

Always be prepared . . .

[Burnette]

OP, it's just that your initial post was somewhat jumbled in thought. From that post, "I love animals and definitely didn't want to shoot somebody's dog, who's only doing what dogs do. The owners are the ones, who need to control their animals. Other than that, I have never seen the need to carry one. In the winter, I wouldn't be able to get to it with bunny hands, and in the summer, it would rust in my jersey pocket. It's just not doable".

And then you responded to people who posted. Like, all of them. Some with weird one liners. Like to mine, you posted, "I dated some dogs". OK. The number of awkward responses coupled with the syntax of the initial post made me question the motive here.

If it was to stir conversation, then we have it. Out if this strangeness I give kudos to Pacleine Forums members for their decorum. Most of these threads devolve into mess. Good bunch here. Carry on.

[Ronsonic]

Threads like this make me realize how much from a different planet, on this same planet, is America and American culture.

Asking about carrying a gun on a bike ride (in my world) will get the same reaction as if someone asked if I would carry:

a live chicken
a sprinkler head
a motherboard
a parachute

those things may be just one degree away from what I desire (food, water, data) when bicycling and enjoying a bike... but really?

I'm not judging or pitying anyone, but it must be a effing drag to live where you have to think about carrying a gun to go enjoy your bike and the outdoors and imagine you're safer doing so. :eek: :(

A lot of tribes in this nation. With a lot of different experiences and backgrounds and environments. I have a fire extinguisher in my car for the same reason that a lot of guns are carried. And, yeah, the folks carrying are generally safer.

[Tony T]

One thing to be VERY VERY VERY aware and careful of with pepper spray is the direction of your travel and wind.

And keep your Oakley's on when using!

[redir]

You may as well play power ball or wait for a lightening strike because the odds of you a) getting attacked and needing a firearm are very very slim and b) in the event that slim chance comes to fruition you getting your weapon out of your seat bag or jersey pocket to effectively use it.... almost nothing.

You sure can increase the odds by riding through known criminal neighborhoods but if you do that with a firearm then you are lookin' for a fight... Good luck with that.

I'm all for the 2A and in fact have used a firearm in self defense in my own home (where your odds are way more manageable) but the whole notion of being armed 24/7 is blown out of proportion paranoia.

[ptourkin]

I have never known a decent lawyer yet.

Then your life experience is as limited as your cycling experience apparently is. If this and the dog comment are your idea of humor, your material needs work.

[oldpotatoe]

I have never known a decent lawyer yet.

Maybe you have been on the wrong end of the 'lawyer'. A good friend of mine is an attorney and has helped me many times. Honest, hard working. He is not an 'ambulance chaser' nor professional liar. There are d!ckheads in every line of work, even yours. Nothing personal.

[RFC]

I'm a weight weenie,

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/P1010002a.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/P1010002a.jpg.html)

except when I'm doing a biathlon -- Zombie hunting and gravel grinding.;)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/ZombieBag2.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/ZombieBag2.jpg.html)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/ZombieBag8.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/ZombieBag8.jpg.html)

[RFC]

The target shooting is cool but doesn't serve a greater purpose. I propose we
make the Florida Biathlon an official sport. Everybody heads off into the woods with the bike and firearm of choice and who ever drops the most tonnage of wild pig, with a 10 pound per head bonus, in the day wins.

Everybody should play this game. All the time. Until there is no more game to play.

Don't wait for it to become official, like Nike says, just do it.

You could also have a python event on fat tires.

[CSTRider]

A lot of tribes in this nation. With a lot of different experiences and backgrounds and environments. I have a fire extinguisher in my car for the same reason that a lot of guns are carried. And, yeah, the folks carrying are generally safer.

Really? I know it's a common perception, but can you provide any data that supports that? Here's some data from smartgunlaws.org (http://smartgunlaws.org/category/gun-studies-statistics/gun-violence-statistics/) that points the other way:

Claims that guns are used defensively millions times every year have been widely discredited. Using a gun in self-defense is no more likely to reduce the chance of being injured during a crime than various other forms of protective action.4 At least one study has found that carrying a firearm significantly increases a personç—´ risk of being shot in an assault; research published in the American Journal of Public Health reported that, even after adjusting for confounding factors, individuals who were in possession of a gun were about 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession.5

The gun lobby has often cited to a thoroughly debunked statistic that guns are used defensively 2.5 million times per year in the United States. That discredited estimate came from a 1995 study that suffered from several fatal methodological flaws, including its reliance on only 66 responses in a telephone survey of 5,000 people, multiplied out to purportedly represent over 200 million American adults.6 The authors of that discredited study themselves stated that in up to 64% of their reported defensive gun use cases, the guns were carried or used illegally, including cases where the victim was actually the aggressor.7

Not trying to be argumentative, just informed ...

[Black Dog]

Maybe you have been on the wrong end of the 'lawyer'. A good friend of mine is an attorney and has helped me many times. Honest, hard working. He is not an 'ambulance chaser' nor professional liar. There are d!ckheads in every line of work, even yours. Nothing personal.

Your friend is the 1% of lawyers that give the other 99% a good name. :D

I have a friend who is a lawyer who also falls into the 1%, even he admits that most lawyers are, well...:butt:

[Dead Man]

Lawyers are in the business of exploiting, seizing advantages/opportunities, manipulating people, words, meanings.. and complicating issues that seem like they should be simple.. you can do all of this legally, intelligently, and fairly, but since it always involves MONEY and who gets more of it, all while taking a piece of all of it.. well, that irks people. Frequently.

Throw in a little lying, and now you've got an entire profession with a bad rap.

My best friend is also a lawyer.. he's an honest guy. Majored in philosophy.. originally wanted to get into environmental law and tackle important issues in effort to save the world, or whatever. But ended up in corporate real estate law instead.. 'cause I guess that's who was hiring, when he graduated. Almost a decade later, I think he hates lawyers more than anyone posting in this thread. :crap:

[SlackMan]

You may as well play power ball or wait for a lightening strike because the odds of you a) getting attacked and needing a firearm are very very slim and b) in the event that slim chance comes to fruition you getting your weapon out of your seat bag or jersey pocket to effectively use it.... almost nothing.

You sure can increase the odds by riding through known criminal neighborhoods but if you do that with a firearm then you are lookin' for a fight... Good luck with that.

I'm all for the 2A and in fact have used a firearm in self defense in my own home (where your odds are way more manageable) but the whole notion of being armed 24/7 is blown out of proportion paranoia.

I don't want to get into a debate about whether one should carry firearms when cycling, but a calculation here (https://metinmediamath.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/homicide-she-wrote-excerpt-from-statistical-snacks/) suggests that the lifetime probability of being a homicide victim is 1 in 285. If one did a comparable lifetime calculation for the lottery odds, it would still be longer odds by many orders of magnitude

[AJM100]

How did this topic devolve into a lawyer hating thread . . .

Makes me miss the "newbie" posting thread issue . . .

:crap:

[bigbill]

All the lawyers I know personally are good guys. I'm riding with several in March. As far as weapons, my gravel bike has a rack and bag. I have a pretty nasty folding knife in the bag. I started carrying it after getting some kind of plastic strapping around my cassette that was near impossible to get off by hand. Now I carry a knife in case something like that happens again.

I also have a Bento Box on my top tube with a can of Halt! pepper spray.

[unterhausen]

I don't want to get into a debate about whether one should carry firearms when cycling, but a calculation here (https://metinmediamath.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/homicide-she-wrote-excerpt-from-statistical-snacks/) suggests that the lifetime probability of being a homicide victim is 1 in 285. If one did a comparable lifetime calculation for the lottery odds, it would still be longer odds by many orders of magnitude
The thing is, there is no doubt a significant correlation between things like socio-economic class and the murder rate. But I suppose for those of us that aren't at the bottom of society, our odds are still in the range that you see in Germany, which are still much more likely than the lottery.

When I was growing up in Appalachia Virginia, the murder rate impressed me as being rather high. Almost all of it was family violence, there was one instance where someone came into town, bought a shotgun, shells and a hacksaw, and walked around killing people. That's one of the things that worries me here in Happy Valley, we are surrounded by a large population that are disaffected, angry, propagandised to hate liberals (i.e. educated people) and well-armed.
I was trained with firearms by the Air Force, but my experience there has convinced me that I will never be in a situation where I wish I had a firearm.

[BumbleBeeDave]

How did this topic devolve into a lawyer hating thread . . .

Makes me miss the "newbie" posting thread issue . . .

:crap:

I though this thread was in the usual "soon-to-be-locked-gun-thread" department, not the "soon-to-be-locked-lawyer-hate-thread" division!

As for carrying while riding, it would have to take some very special circumstances for me to even consider buying a gun and doing it. Having lived in this area for 23 years and ridden 3-5k miles per year around here, I feel I have a pretty good take on which areas to avoid and which areas have a higher yahoo population. But if I'm visiting someplace else--for instance to Sacto next month for NAHBS, you can be sure I will be doing some informal research to see if there are any local areas to avoid.

I don't see how carrying is going to do you a bit of good on a bike unless you have your piece in a holster right on the bars where you can get to it right now. Jersey pocket? Holster? Seatbag? If somebody really wants to take you out, in 99.9% of cases they are going to be able to do it long before you can get to your gun in any of those carry spots.

Your best weapons for defense are your eyes and ears. Keep them open and watch your surroundings--which you should be doing anyway if you are riding.

BBD

[CPP]

When i saw the original post I though the guy was taking the piss out of everybody! This should have been shackled after the first few posts (In my opinion)

[witcombusa]

[QUOTE=unterhausen;1897003]
When I was growing up in Appalachia Virginia, the murder rate impressed me as being rather high. Almost all of it was family violence, there was one instance where someone came into town, bought a shotgun, shells and a hacksaw, and walked around killing people. That's one of the things that worries me here in Happy Valley, we are surrounded by a large population that are disaffected, angry, propagandised to hate liberals (i.e. educated people) and well-armed.
QUOTE]


Funniest thing I've read in awhile... thanks!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . (which, BTW, will get this thread shut down in a NY minute) . . . I'm not sure why you would think this is funny.

Whether I'm out on my bike or not, I'm not nearly as worried by the number of guns out there as I am by the number of just plain angry people there are. Never in my life have I seen so many angry and passive aggressive people of all political stripes as I have in the last few years. Everybody seems to be angry about everything, and it seems to take increasingly smaller incidents to bring it out in the open. I think the Internet just exacerbates it.

Am I worried that somebody will shoot me while I'm out riding? No.

Am I worried that some driver angry about everything is going to give in to the momentary temptation to take it out on that helpless cyclists (me) in front of him, sure in the moment that he can "fight back" and simply drive away and get away with it?

Damn right I am.

BBD



[QUOTE=unterhausen;1897003]
When I was growing up in Appalachia Virginia, the murder rate impressed me as being rather high. Almost all of it was family violence, there was one instance where someone came into town, bought a shotgun, shells and a hacksaw, and walked around killing people. That's one of the things that worries me here in Happy Valley, we are surrounded by a large population that are disaffected, angry, propagandised to hate liberals (i.e. educated people) and well-armed.
QUOTE]


Funniest thing I've read in awhile... thanks!

[ptourkin]

Lawyers are in the business of exploiting, seizing advantages/opportunities, manipulating people, words, meanings.. and complicating issues that seem like they should be simple.. you can do all of this legally, intelligently, and fairly, but since it always involves MONEY and who gets more of it, all while taking a piece of all of it.. well, that irks people. Frequently.

Throw in a little lying, and now you've got an entire profession with a bad rap.



Actually, I can lose my license/livelihood for most of those things and it happens, perhaps not often enough, but it does. Does your noble profession have similar regulations or do you just pull your rules out of the same place that statement came from?

[palincss]

You may as well play power ball or wait for a lightening strike because the odds of you a) getting attacked and needing a firearm are very very slim and b) in the event that slim chance comes to fruition you getting your weapon out of your seat bag or jersey pocket to effectively use it.... almost nothing.

You sure can increase the odds by riding through known criminal neighborhoods but if you do that with a firearm then you are lookin' for a fight... Good luck with that.

I'm all for the 2A and in fact have used a firearm in self defense in my own home (where your odds are way more manageable) but the whole notion of being armed 24/7 is blown out of proportion paranoia.

Exactly.

[PFSLABD]

When i saw the original post I though the guy was taking the piss out of everybody! This should have been shackled after the first few posts (In my opinion)

I don't understand the meaning of your post, and maybe you made a typo, but this forum is an American forum and not subject to the laws of Switzerland.

[RFC]

Actually, I can lose my license/livelihood for most of those things and it happens, perhaps not often enough, but it does. Does your noble profession have similar regulations or do you just pull your rules out of the same place that statement came from?

+1 Yes, I'm a lawyer.

[Dead Man]

Actually, I can lose my license/livelihood for most of those things and it happens, perhaps not often enough, but it does. Does your noble profession have similar regulations or do you just pull your rules out of the same place that statement came from?

I guess I should have just said, "It's the adversarial nature of the work."

:beer:

[PFSLABD]

I don't like dogs much. I don't have a problem with guns. But shooting dogs with a handgun from a moving bicycle is not a solution I'd recommend to anyone other than Chuck Norris.

That would be a drive by shooting, but most of the guys I know, who carry a gun while riding have been harassed by the good ol' boys in pickup trucks. One of the drivers even held up a pistol to show the cyclists what he was carrying.

[PFSLABD]

Pepper spray should be enough protection.

Not on a windy day.

[Bruce K]

That is considered "brandishing" in most states and you can be arrested, prosecuted, and lose your firearms and license for that

BK

[PFSLABD]

Good for him.
I generally have a 380 with me. Unfortunately I have reached the age that I am a handlebar bag kind of guy. Makes carrying easy. On or off the bike, its usually with me. Or a different one.

The knife is always present, always.


Also been considering one of these :
http://www.doubletapdefense.com

Cheap, light and small.

Be safe out there. Practice with whatever you get.
Scott

Nice. I bought a similar over and under derringer for my wife. It fired .32 auto, but it was just too hard for my wife to pull back the trigger so I traded it for a snub nose .38

[Tony T]

Not on a windy day.

Wind will help if you're upwind. (Anyway you're on a bike and will be wearing shades)

[PFSLABD]

Many of you already understand this, but I will mention it anyway:

Whatever tool you decide to EDC (or EDBC in this case), make sure that you practice and train fairly regularly in its usage. How it works, how to deploy quickly, deployment under duress, as well as deescalation skills and lastly...be prepared to clearly explain why you felt threatened enough to use it after the fact (if it ever comes to that).

I fall into the always be prepared camp, but I'm also a firm believer in adequate training if you choose to be prepared for self preservation.

William

Agreed. I shoot once a week, but I have gotten where I'd rather shoot my bow than a gun. At least you get the arrows back whereas ammo is a bit expensive these days. I stopped carrying because it was just too hard to get to the weapon. I want to enjoy cycling, and having that gun doesn't help for an enjoyable ride.

[PFSLABD]

I haven't tried it myself, but I've seen pepper spray used on an aggressive dog and it worked amazingly well. Although the sprayer was on foot rather than riding a bike.

I've considered carrying it myself, as I've actually been bitten on my bike before (many years ago), but haven't committed. As I get to where I can't out-sprint dogs as well due to advancing years perhaps I'll go that route.

I have no inclination to carry a handgun while riding, and I already own a pistol that would be suitable.

No matter your age, you should be able to outsprint a dog if you get the jump on them. The problem I have is the dog that jumps out from a ditch or a blind curve. Halt is another thing I don't carry. I used to carry it and sprayed it twice. The first time, it didn't even faze the dog. The second instant, I shot a Boxer in the eyes and felt real bad because of all the crying he was doing, but it stopped his attack.

[PFSLABD]

Wow, it's interesting how many people carry guns in the us. In the Uk its unthinkable unless you're a crim!
I've never even held a gun but sometimes wish I had a baseball bat to deal with dogs off leads and some drivers:beer:

Carry a water bottle with ammonia for squirting at dogs. Just remember where you put it. You'll only drink it once.

[PFSLABD]

Threads like this make me realize how much from a different planet, on this same planet, is America and American culture.

Asking about carrying a gun on a bike ride (in my world) will get the same reaction as if someone asked if I would carry:

a live chicken
a sprinkler head
a motherboard
a parachute

those things may be just one degree away from what I desire (food, water, data) when bicycling and enjoying a bike... but really?

I'm not judging or pitying anyone, but it must be a effing drag to live where you have to think about carrying a gun to go enjoy your bike and the outdoors and imagine you're safer doing so. :eek: :(

The things you mentioned won't protect your life if it comes down to it. That's the difference.

[rnhood]

Carry a water bottle with ammonia for squirting at dogs. Just remember where you put it. You'll only drink it once.

Yes, for dogs this works quite well too.

[PFSLABD]

OP, it's just that your initial post was somewhat jumbled in thought. From that post, "I love animals and definitely didn't want to shoot somebody's dog, who's only doing what dogs do. The owners are the ones, who need to control their animals. Other than that, I have never seen the need to carry one. In the winter, I wouldn't be able to get to it with bunny hands, and in the summer, it would rust in my jersey pocket. It's just not doable".

And then you responded to people who posted. Like, all of them. Some with weird one liners. Like to mine, you posted, "I dated some dogs". OK. The number of awkward responses coupled with the syntax of the initial post made me question the motive here.

If it was to stir conversation, then we have it. Out if this strangeness I give kudos to Pacleine Forums members for their decorum. Most of these threads devolve into mess. Good bunch here. Carry on.

How about starting a thread somewhere on this forum so that we can see what inspirational topics you can bring to the table? I would love to participate in one of your discussions.

[PFSLABD]

You may as well play power ball or wait for a lightening strike because the odds of you a) getting attacked and needing a firearm are very very slim and b) in the event that slim chance comes to fruition you getting your weapon out of your seat bag or jersey pocket to effectively use it.... almost nothing.

You sure can increase the odds by riding through known criminal neighborhoods but if you do that with a firearm then you are lookin' for a fight... Good luck with that.

I'm all for the 2A and in fact have used a firearm in self defense in my own home (where your odds are way more manageable) but the whole notion of being armed 24/7 is blown out of proportion paranoia.

I used to have to ride through one of those high crime areas. One morning, a guy standing on the corner offered me a joint. I declined, telling him that it wouldn't help me on the bike. He was the front man for the drug house down the street. I knew I was safe because I was a fixture to them. I belonged in their neighborhood because they had seen me riding through on the bike so many times. It was the same when I ran distance through the same neighborhood.

[PFSLABD]

Then your life experience is as limited as your cycling experience apparently is. If this and the dog comment are your idea of humor, your material needs work.

Oh, did I find a lawyer, who took offense? I have used the services of some of your colleagues, and their expertise was sadly lacking. All they want to do is plea bargain, instead of really providing a defense strategy. You may be the only good lawyer left, but you don't live in my neck of the woods so I wouldn't be able to judge whether that is true or not. I try to avoid your types if I can because I always feel dirty after using one. It's the same way I feel after visiting a car dealership.

[PFSLABD]

Maybe you have been on the wrong end of the 'lawyer'. A good friend of mine is an attorney and has helped me many times. Honest, hard working. He is not an 'ambulance chaser' nor professional liar. There are d!ckheads in every line of work, even yours. Nothing personal.

I was in an accident where a car stopped in front of me. I went through the back window and had to be airlifted out. I was charged with reckless driving on the bike. I hired a lawyer. I paid him $700 to represent me. When I paid the bill, his secretary told me that he would be late for the trial because he is always late for trials, but when he gets there, he will do a good job for you. I showed up at court at 8 when the trial started, but true to what the secretary said, he was nowhere to be found. The judge was very annoyed. He had his bailiff search for him in other courtrooms. When he discovered that my lawyer wasn't present, he began to doubt me that I was being represented by a lawyer. He was very close to charging me with contempt of court, when in strolls my lawyer with the excuse that he was waiting outside the courtroom for me and didn't know that the case started at 8. Baloney! The only thing he did for me was have the case thrown out, since the officer, who wrote the ticket felt bad about it and reduced the charges to improper operation of a bicycle. In any event, my bike was destroyed, and the lady got a ticket for stopping in the middle of the road. Can't say much for the profession, whatsoever. I had one, who told me I must change my story if I'm going to win. Lawyers want people to lie to the judge after taking an oath on the Bible. Your lawyer must be a rose among thorns.

[PFSLABD]

I'm a weight weenie,

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/P1010002a.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/P1010002a.jpg.html)

except when I'm doing a biathlon -- Zombie hunting and gravel grinding.;)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/ZombieBag2.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/ZombieBag2.jpg.html)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/ZombieBag8.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/ZombieBag8.jpg.html)

Looks like a Glock. They tend to fire if you breathe on them.

[Dead Man]

I was in an accident where a car stopped in front of me. I went through the back window and had to be airlifted out. I was charged with reckless driving on the bike. I hired a lawyer. I paid him $700 to represent me. When I paid the bill, his secretary told me that he would be late for the trial because he is always late for trials, but when he gets there, he will do a good job for you. I showed up at court at 8 when the trial started, but true to what the secretary said, he was nowhere to be found. The judge was very annoyed. He had his bailiff search for him in other courtrooms. When he discovered that my lawyer wasn't present, he began to doubt me that I was being represented by a lawyer. He was very close to charging me with contempt of court, when in strolls my lawyer with the excuse that he was waiting outside the courtroom for me and didn't know that the case started at 8. Baloney! The only thing he did for me was have the case thrown out, since the officer, who wrote the ticket felt bad about it and reduced the charges to improper operation of a bicycle. In any event, my bike was destroyed, and the lady got a ticket for stopping in the middle of the road. Can't say much for the profession, whatsoever. I had one, who told me I must change my story if I'm going to win. Lawyers want people to lie to the judge after taking an oath on the Bible. Your lawyer must be a rose among thorns.

Sounds like you have experience with a total of two lawyers, then? There's a lot more out there than those two, friend.

That's kinda like assuming all cyclists are self-entitled pricks who think they own the roads and none of the traffic laws apply to them, because you see hipsters on fixies blowing stop signs downtown.

[Dead Man]

Looks like a Glock. They tend to fire if you breathe on them.

:rolleyes:

[PFSLABD]

Really? I know it's a common perception, but can you provide any data that supports that? Here's some data from smartgunlaws.org (http://smartgunlaws.org/category/gun-studies-statistics/gun-violence-statistics/) that points the other way:

Claims that guns are used defensively millions times every year have been widely discredited. Using a gun in self-defense is no more likely to reduce the chance of being injured during a crime than various other forms of protective action.4 At least one study has found that carrying a firearm significantly increases a personç—´ risk of being shot in an assault; research published in the American Journal of Public Health reported that, even after adjusting for confounding factors, individuals who were in possession of a gun were about 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession.5

The gun lobby has often cited to a thoroughly debunked statistic that guns are used defensively 2.5 million times per year in the United States. That discredited estimate came from a 1995 study that suffered from several fatal methodological flaws, including its reliance on only 66 responses in a telephone survey of 5,000 people, multiplied out to purportedly represent over 200 million American adults.6 The authors of that discredited study themselves stated that in up to 64% of their reported defensive gun use cases, the guns were carried or used illegally, including cases where the victim was actually the aggressor.7

Not trying to be argumentative, just informed ...

If all these cases have been debunked, why is the Obama administration waging war on guns? For that matter why did the Justice Department see fit to allow the BATF to supply drug cartels with several assault rifles that caused the life of a Border Patrol agent? They had a sting going on with the idea of chasing these guns through the cartels and tracing them back to American sellers, but the whole plan backfired, causing the BATF and the Obama administration to get egg on their faces. The little debacle was called Fast and Furious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

[PFSLABD]

How did this topic devolve into a lawyer hating thread . . .

Makes me miss the "newbie" posting thread issue . . .

:crap:


Probably because a lawyer complained that he was being unfairly singled out. We need to get back to the cycling with weapon topic.

[ajhapps]

In before the lock! :banana:

[PFSLABD]

That is considered "brandishing" in most states and you can be arrested, prosecuted, and lose your firearms and license for that

BK

I don't think anybody got his license number. There are some cops, who won't even come out unless a crime has been committed. So much for "having a cop protect you argument" about not needing a gun.

[palincss]

The things you mentioned won't protect your life if it comes down to it. That's the difference.

If it "comes down to it" it'll be all over before you manage to get your gun out -- even if you have it in a handlebar bag -- so it'll protect you about as well as that live chicken would. And think of the weight penalty!

[PFSLABD]

Wind will help if you're upwind. (Anyway you're on a bike and will be wearing shades)

I got sprayed by the stoker on a tandem, who was aiming at a dog. Shades did help, but it burned my cheeks.

[PFSLABD]

If it "comes down to it" it'll be all over before you manage to get your gun out -- even if you have it in a handlebar bag -- so it'll protect you about as well as that live chicken would. And think of the weight penalty!

I agree with you, so there is no use in carrying one. My Mt. Zefal frame pump works against dogs, not hitting them, but just showing it to them to make them think it is a big stick.

[jmeloy]

Threads like this make me realize how much from a different planet, on this same planet, is America and American culture.

Asking about carrying a gun on a bike ride (in my world) will get the same reaction as if someone asked if I would carry:

a live chicken
a sprinkler head
a motherboard
a parachute

those things may be just one degree away from what I desire (food, water, data) when bicycling and enjoying a bike... but really?

I'm not judging or pitying anyone, but it must be a effing drag to live where you have to think about carrying a gun to go enjoy your bike and the outdoors and imagine you're safer doing so. :eek: :(


this!

[ptourkin]

If all these cases have been debunked, why is the Obama administration waging war on guns? For that matter why did the Justice Department see fit to allow the BATF to supply drug cartels with several assault rifles that caused the life of a Border Patrol agent? They had a sting going on with the idea of chasing these guns through the cartels and tracing them back to American sellers, but the whole plan backfired, causing the BATF and the Obama administration to get egg on their faces. The little debacle was called Fast and Furious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

He's gone full Adam, with far less self-awareness. Please lock this.

[RFC]

Looks like a Glock. They tend to fire if you breathe on them.


Not my experience. Is it yours?

[RFC]

I think this thread has deteriorated to trollism.

[Dead Man]

Not my experience.

Nor the entire competitive shooting and mil/LE communities.

Glocks have had the problems they've had (which are astonishingly few, compared to all other manufacturers of automatic pistols), but "firing if you breath on them" is NOT one.

[ptourkin]

this!

Before we do get locked, let me agree and I just looked out my window and saw the oh so scary Mexican border. Every week I ride down toward it and have to go throw some marginal zip codes to get down by the border, where I'll have pass though Border Patrol checkpoints along the way to do some beautiful climbs. I've never felt the need to have a firearm for my personal safety. I'm far more afraid of angry NRA members that may be carrying them in their vehicles.

PS, as I've mentioned before --I've worked for many years in military and government jobs where people carried guns in the line of duty and even with all the training we receive, unfortunate mistakes and decisions occur simply because there was a firearm around.

It's pretty clear to me who in this discussion spends their time riding bikes and who doesn't. For those who do, salutations and enjoy.

[AngryScientist]

yup, this one is done.