Vamoots RSL geo-

[Mikej]

So I was checking on the new Moots site and it appears they have tweaked the geometry a bit - I believe the 58cm always had a 73.75 degree HTA WITH A 41MM offset, now Moots has a 73.75 w/ a 43mm offset. This would put the trail at 54 ish. I always thought 57 was the medium, but even for a crit bike, it would seem like you'd have a hard time pulling out of corners. What do you guys think? And I've always lusted over the RSL.

[tigoat]

There is a 3mm difference between the two trails in theory but in reality it makes no difference, at least trail wise. The tolerance stackup from the bottom of the front wheel all the way up to the headset is tremendous and for this reason I would expect that the actual trail is all over the place anyway. What seems like a difference in feel for handling would have more to do with the strength of front end components (frame, stem, bars, fork, wheel, etc.) and the way you ride the bike (how much pressure you put into the bars) and your weight distribution. All these minor difference geometry talks are good for a conversation but it makes no difference in most cases on the road.

[sparky33]

More importantly, how does every feel about the new Moots website showing Vamoots with black Moots forks? Gone are the days of matching silver forks?

[sandyrs]

More importantly, how does every feel about the new Moots website showing Vamoots with black Moots forks? Gone are the days of matching silver forks?

I think it looks awesome. Less enthusiastic about the carbon stem with ti spacers, though.

[Mark McM]

There is a 3mm difference between the two trails in theory but in reality it makes no difference, at least trail wise. The tolerance stackup from the bottom of the front wheel all the way up to the headset is tremendous and for this reason I would expect that the actual trail is all over the place anyway. What seems like a difference in feel for handling would have more to do with the strength of front end components (frame, stem, bars, fork, wheel, etc.) and the way you ride the bike (how much pressure you put into the bars) and your weight distribution. All these minor difference geometry talks are good for a conversation but it makes no difference in most cases on the road.

Ditto all of the above. I have bike that have between 51 and 58 mm of trail, and I've never had "a hard time pulling out of corners" (in a crit or anywhere else). When I switch between the bikes, they may feel different initially, but you soon get used to it.

[Mikej]

hmm, thanks. I just thought a 54 trail was more likely to feel or turn into a corner where a 57+ would be prone to pull a wider turn radius. Thanks.

[wgp]

I think it looks awesome. Less enthusiastic about the carbon stem with ti spacers, though.

Amen - where are the classic Moots Ti stem and seatpost?? Missing that Moots look! Both my Moots sport the matching parts, debadged of their stickers though! I just bought a used RSL and on paper its geometry is almost exactly that of my 2004 build Vamoots but the two bikes feel very very different.

[commonguy001]

My old 57.5 Vamoots has that same 73.75 HTA and I've run both a 40mm and 43mm rake on it. I never noticed a difference in handling between the two, it was just really good either way.

[sw3759]

I just received a my new 54 RSL a few weeks ago.wasnt aware they changed any geo though.the 54cm changes look mainly due to new fork.
I wanted to get my new RSL while they still had the older style silver fork.i think it looks better imo.the shape and color.i asked if the new fork would be available in the Ti color they said no.
the changes for the 54 appears due to the fact the 44mm head tube is now standard and the new forks measurement

[happycampyer]

I had read an article a while back that mentioned that Moots had acquired the machinery to start swaging. Iirc the article mentioned that it's only the chain and seatstays that are swaged. Interesting, since the seatstays are so skinny to begin with.

It is interesting that they put an Enve stem and seatpost on their "top-of-the-line"/most expensive build. Frankly, the Enve seatpost is probably more comfortable. I think the black forks look great. Still adjusting to the black decals, but I think they look better when there is more black elsewhere (stem, seatpost, deep section wheels, etc.).

[sandyrs]

I had read an article a while back that mentioned that Moots had acquired the machinery to start swaging. Iirc the article mentioned that it's only the chain and seatstays that are swaged. Interesting, since the seatstays are so skinny to begin with.

It is interesting that they put an Enve stem and seatpost on their "top-of-the-line"/most expensive build. Frankly, the Enve seatpost is probably more comfortable. I think the black forks look great. Still adjusting to the black decals, but I think they look better when there is more black elsewhere (stem, seatpost, deep section wheels, etc.).

The enve stuff is probably lighter which is why they put it on the stock build of their road racing bike.