BB standards again

[tuscanyswe]

Im shopping a crankset for a frame and need som reassurance.

Frame specs says it uses a "Pressfit 30" bottom bracket. (yeah id love it to be a threaded 68mm shell but its not). The literature also mentions this as pf bb30 at at least one time in the text. Ive heard some bad stuff on trying to fit an adapter and going with ultra torque so i bought an over torque campy crank instead.

So i have a campagnolo over torque crankset (not ultra nor power torque).

Which campy bb is my best option? for use with this frame, to many options these days I'm confused as to what the difference is?

-Option one. i like the idea of this since i see threads .)
http://dk.cyclecomponents.com/komponenter/vevlager/cam0469-campagnolo-over-torquetm-os-fittm-vevlager-pf30-68x46-mm.html

-Option two. Why do campy offer this solution for the same application as above? looks worse without the sleeve and threads or am i wrong?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2016-Campagnolo-BB30-Over-Torque-Press-Fit-68x46-Bottom-Bracket-Cups-/271435741790?hash=item3f32d4ba5e:g:ZmcAAMXQydtTMwN B

-Option three. Perhaps only difference with this is the ceramic bearings and the price tag?
https://r2-bike.com/CAMPAGNOLO-Bottom-Bracket-Cups-for-Over-Torque-Ceramic-USB-PressFit-30-54g


Also what new tools will i need to install these bbs and crank?

Thanks

[Cicli]

The proper bottom bracket for that frame is a Praxis adapter and Campy bottom bracket.

[tuscanyswe]

The proper bottom bracket for that frame is a Praxis adapter and Campy bottom bracket.

Why would i want an adapter? I thought buying an over torque campy crank was going to rid the problems of adapters?
Do praxis even make an adapter for over torque?

[kramnnim]

Option 1 and 2 don't seem like they do the same thing, option 1 adds width...

[tuscanyswe]

Option 1 is threaded into a shell which makes me like it but as far as i can tell both option 1 and option 2 are for use with campagnolo over torque cranksets and press fit 30 frames.

And this is my question, why are there 2 systems for the same application? (if that is idd the case)

Edit: oh now i c what you mean, yeah it must be wider, weird since it says its for pf 30 and over torque on both of the descriptions.

[spartanKid]

So...this is a BB30/PF30 frameset, right? Over torque just needs a standard BB30/PF30 set of bearings, etc. I'm not sure why you need any of the three links you've shown. Here is an installation video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xc36RywVFo

[tuscanyswe]

So...this is a BB30/PF30 frameset, right? Over torque just needs a standard BB30/PF30 set of bearings, etc. I'm not sure why you need any of the three links you've shown. Here is an installation video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xc36RywVFo


This is what has me confused.

I think (perhaps in the wrong) that pf30 is not the same as bb30 even tho bb30 obviously is a press fit solution?

I figured a pf 30 68x46 needed a cup for over torque and not directly pressed in bearings as in the video?

[Cicli]

Sorry, I am confused. Now even more so.

[spartanKid]

This is what has me confused.

I think (perhaps in the wrong) that pf30 is not the same as bb30 even tho bb30 obviously is a press fit solution?

I figured a pf 30 68x46 needed a cup for over torque and not directly pressed it bearings as in the video?

here is a good explanation of the difference between PF and BB30 (http://wheelsmfg.com/bb30-vs-pf30)

[tuscanyswe]

here is a good explanation of the difference between PF and BB30 (http://wheelsmfg.com/bb30-vs-pf30)

Exactly but in the video you posted they are pressing the bearings straight into the frame as in bb30. This is a pf30 that wants the cups with bearing allrdy in them to be pressed in to the frame.

Its looking like option 2 or 3 (if i need the ceramics) then?! I feel so reinsured and confident that this is the correct solution now ... or do i :D

Cant believe how complicated its getting to order a damn bb even if you have been doing this stuff for as long as you can remember (more or less)

[FlashUNC]

Just get the campy cups you need and be done with it. The Praxis solution is mostly to try to solve the dreaded ye old BB30 creak.

[kramnnim]

The above Wheels MFG link is correct, so if Overtorque uses regular PF30 bearings, Chris King might be your best option.

[shovelhd]

BB30 has cups for the bearings where PF30 does not.

[spartanKid]

Exactly but in the video you posted they are pressing the bearings straight into the frame as in bb30. This is a pf30 that wants the cups with bearing allrdy in them to be pressed in to the frame.

Its looking like option 2 or 3 (if i need the ceramics) then?! I feel so reinsured and confident that this is the correct solution now ... or do i :D

Cant believe how complicated its getting to order a damn bb even if you have been doing this stuff for as long as you can remember (more or less)

Yeah I think you are right here, so the second or third links seem to be what you want...:crap::crap::crap::crap:

[tuscanyswe]

The above Wheels MFG link is correct, so if Overtorque uses regular PF30 bearings, Chris King might be your best option.


I doubt its that easy. King and campy, id be very surprised! pleasantly so tho.

[tuscanyswe]

BB30 has cups for the bearings where PF30 does not.

Isn't it the other way around lol

[sg8357]

"BB Standards" is now an official oxymoron.

[Cicli]

BB30 has cups for the bearings where PF30 does not.

I thought it was the other way?

[ultraman6970]

Nothing like the perfect italian threaded BB.

[kramnnim]

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=121737

[Cicli]

Nothing like the perfect italian threaded BB.

I am happy with anything threaded. Dosent have to be Italian IMHO.

[kramnnim]

BB30 has an aluminum shell that the bearings press directly in to. PF30 has a hole for plastic/alloy cups to press in to.

According to FWB, Campy OT works with normal BB30 bearings, so it would work with any standard PF30 bearings as well, so King PF30 cups would work.

[ultraman6970]

Amazingly enough the only bikes with english BB i have dealt with had been no more than 3, all of the other stuff had ai-talian BBs. :D Potato is right tho... italian BB is perfection!

I am happy with anything threaded. Dosent have to be Italian IMHO.

[tuscanyswe]

Well that 1 person confirms it works with chris king haven't got me sold. Im sure it could work well as he says but words like "the correct spacer" and similar things makes me think its a route id rather not travel.

I just want a bb to fit the crank to the frame. The crank modell itself was produced in order for campy cranks to fit on these type of frames.. The irony :)

[shovelhd]

BB30 has an aluminum shell that the bearings press directly in to. PF30 has a hole for plastic/alloy cups to press in to.

According to FWB, Campy OT works with normal BB30 bearings, so it would work with any standard PF30 bearings as well, so King PF30 cups would work.

I guess it's frame dependent then. Felt uses cups for BB30. Some are aluminum, some are carbon.

[spartanKid]

Well that 1 person confirms it works with chris king doesn't have me sold. Im sure it could work well as he says but words like "the correct spacer" and similar things makes me think its a route id rather not travel.

I just want a bb to fit the crank to the frame, ironically the crank was produced in order for campy cranks to fit on these type of frames.. The irony :)

In theory whether BB or PF 30, the resulting bearing surfaces are the same distance apart and the same 30 mm diameter ID. Cranksets then require some sort of bearing shields/seals over the bearings, spacers/wave washers, etc. to eliminate play and tighten everything up.

Did the OT crankset come with "spacers" or other little bits like were shown in the video?

You can also buy small 0.5mm plastic shims that have a 30 mm ID to eliminate play in BB30/PF30 cranksets.

[tuscanyswe]

In theory whether BB or PF 30, the resulting bearing surfaces are the same distance apart and the same 30 mm diameter ID. Cranksets then require some sort of bearing shields/seals over the bearings, spacers/wave washers, etc. to eliminate play and tighten everything up.

Did the OT crankset come with "spacers" or other little bits like were shown in the video?

You can also buy small 0.5mm plastic shims that have a 30 mm ID to eliminate play in BB30/PF30 cranksets.

Ah okay so at least its a regular included spacer.
Guess its the same procedure as when i installed the hollowgram cranks on a bb30 frame then more or less.

[Cicli]

Standard. :fight:

[kramnnim]

I just swapped out a SRAM PF30 BB for a King to use with my Hollowgrams, and it came together perfectly. Didn't use any loose seals/spacers, just the wavy washer. Should be fine with Campy OT like he said, especially if there's an actual preload adjuster, not the silly wavy washer.

[Tony T]

Also what new tools will i need to install these bbs and crank?


Not sure why you're looking for adaptors, but here are the installation instructions:
http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_28_Technical%20manual%20-%20over%20torque%20crankset%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev03_02_15.pdf

[beeatnik]

Campy Over Torque cranks are not true BB30/PF30 cranks in that they're designed for a 90mm system width. If you install them in a PF30 frame without the appropriate cups, you wont be able to set the proper preload as you'll be without the necessary spacers (true BB30/PF30 cranks shouldn't require spacers). Whether or not that makes sense is secondary. You need this BB ("oversized cups"):

"PFBB30 68x46" (all day, err day)
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/bottom-brackets-bottom-brackets-campagnolo-over-torque-os-fit-cups/campbtbr451

And check this out:

These are the threaded cups you would use if you had a BSA BB:
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/bottom-brackets-bottom-brackets-campagnolo-over-torque-outboard-cups/campbtbr453000000000

Basically, the threaded cups above are similar to the cups Rotor, THM and others require for their 30mm spindle crank systems.

[lhuerta]

...in addition, make sure you read this addendum from Campagnolo as well.

http://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_41_Technical%20manual%20-%20OverTorque%20bottom%20bracket%20cup%20-%20Campagnolo_Rev02_03_15.pdf

Pay specific attention to the NEW instructions for installing press fit cups (new for Campy that is...) calling for the use of Loctite 603 or 609 for press fit cups, plus Activator. The use of Loctite compound will avoid the dreaded press-fit creak that you have read so much about. If you install your press fit cups without Loctite then brace yourself for the cup drift and dreaded creak that WILL happen sooner or later (if you actually ride your bike). Many manufacturers have been calling for the use of Loctite 609 or similar compound on press fit cups for some time, while others are only recent adoptees. This is especially important if you are installing press fit cups on a new carbon frame. If you install press fit cups without Loctite the cups will begin to drift and grind-away material in your carbon shell, essentially grinding your shell out of spec. Thus making it more challenging to engage a proper install using Loctite because the compound may no longer be able to fill the larger gaps. After which you will be limited to using expensive and heavy after market solutions like BBInfinite and Praxis

[tuscanyswe]

Campy Over Torque cranks are not true BB30/PF30 cranks in that they're designed for a 90mm system width. If you install them in a PF30 frame without the appropriate cups, you wont be able to set the proper preload as you'll be without the necessary spacers (true BB30/PF30 cranks shouldn't require spacers). Whether or not that makes sense is secondary. You need this BB ("oversized cups"):

"PFBB30 68x46" (all day, err day)
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/bottom-brackets-bottom-brackets-campagnolo-over-torque-os-fit-cups/campbtbr451



A 3rd option has appeared. What is the difference between this and my option 2 and 3? will the all work? The picture in your link makes it look like there are no cups and only bearings to be pressed in?

Lets say i decide on the "correct bb" out of these options will it be my best bet? If I'm still going to get creaking even with over torque cranks and the right bb then should i just go ultra torque with parlee adapters? (cheaper) and use loctite on them instead?

Seems like such a useless invention this "standard"..

Lets say i install overtorque cranks and loctite the cups in, which of the 2 alt (603 or 609) will be easiest to get out? Is there a concern i may not get them out or damage my frame when i do try to get them out, this is a titanium frame btw?

Thanks for everyone who is chipping in btw, appreciated.

[kramnnim]

Do you have your new OT cranks in hand already? Curious what spacers they come with.

I don't think you could damage a ti frame removing the cups. Pounding on a carbon frame is a little more disconcerting.

[tuscanyswe]

Do you have your new OT cranks in hand already? Curious what spacers they come with.

I don't think you could damage a ti frame removing the cups. Pounding on a carbon frame is a little more disconcerting.

Id be happy to check when i have access to them. Ill let you know.

[beeatnik]

A 3rd option has appeared. What is the difference between this and my option 2 and 3? will the all work? The picture in your link makes it look like there are no cups and only bearings to be pressed in?

Lets say i decide on the "correct bb" out of these options will it be my best bet? If I'm still going to get creaking even with over torque cranks and the right bb then should i just go ultra torque with parlee adapters? (cheaper) and use loctite on them instead?

Seems like such a useless invention this "standard"..

Lets say i install overtorque cranks and loctite the cups in, which of the 2 alt (603 or 609) will be easiest to get out? Is there a concern i may not get them out or damage my frame when i do try to get them out, this is a titanium frame btw?

Thanks for everyone who is chipping in btw, appreciated.

The Ribble page only shows an image of the bearings and spacers for a BB30 frame (direct press w/ C clip). However, that page does include all the "OS" or oversized BBs for Over Torque cranks so you have the following 3 options (in order):

PFBB30 68x46: this is for a PF30 frame with a shell width of 68mm (6806 bearings in cups)
BB386 86.5x46: this is for a 386 frame with a shell width of 86mm (6806 bearings in cups)
BB30 68x42: this is for the classic BB30 frame with a shell width of 68mm (no cups)

All the above frames or BBs use the same 6806 (42mm OD, 30mm ID) bearings. What people call BB30.

Press fit frames designed for 30mm spindles have a 46mm shell inner diameter (ID) hence the 68x46 or 86.5 x 46 designation. BB30 frames have 42mm shell inner diameters.

Now, and not to confuse the issue, press fit frames designed for Shimano cranks (24mm spindle) have a 41 shell inner diameter. Hence, BB86 would be 86.5x41. See the third option below:

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/bottom-brackets-bottom-brackets-campagnolo-bb30-ut-os-fit-integrated-cups-press-fit/campbtbr490

[tuscanyswe]

The Ribble page only shows an image of the bearings and spacers for a BB30 frame (direct press w/ C clip). However, that page does include all the "OS" or oversized BBs for Over Torque cranks so you have the following 3 options (in order):

PFBB30 68x46: this is for a PF30 frame with a shell width of 68mm (6806 bearings in cups)
BB386 86.5x46: this is for a 386 frame with a shell width of 86mm (6806 bearings in cups)
BB30 68x42: this is for the classic BB30 frame with a shell width of 68mm (no cups)

All the above frames or BBs use the same 6806 (42mm OD, 30mm ID) bearings. What people call BB30.

Press fit frames designed for 30mm bearings have a 46mm shell inner diameter (ID) hence the 68x46 or 86.5 x 46 designation. BB30 frames have 42mm shell inner diameters.

Now, and not to confuse the issue, press fit frames designed for Shimano cranks (24mm) have a 41 shell inner diameter. Hence, BB86 would be 86.5x41. See the third option below:

http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/bottom-brackets-bottom-brackets-campagnolo-bb30-ut-os-fit-integrated-cups-press-fit/campbtbr490

Thanks for clearing that up, i thought perhaps those bearings had larger outer dia or that id lost it not figuring out how they would fit with no cups if same size :)

So in other words the pf30 68x46 that i want to buy in your link most likely is the same as my option 2 in the first post in the thread then.

[beeatnik]

Ya, the Ribble BB is the same as the ebay BB. Those Campy cups essentially act as adapters except you're not using them to fit a 25mm UT crank but a 30mm OT crank to a PF30 shell.

http://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-brackets/pf30/pf30-adapters/pressfit-30-adapter-for-campagnolo-cranks.html

Best pic seen here. Note the conical spacers

https://www.bikebug.com/campagnolo-over-torque-pf30-cups-68mm-x-46mm-p-39789.html