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Hilltopperny
01-10-2016, 03:17 PM
I just picked up a serotta mountain bike from out in saratoga. The owner claimed that it was built for her mother in law by Ben himself. It doesn't have any stickers or serial number. Does anyone know any info on this bike? It's got early to mid nineties xt on it? Some crazy shaping on the tubes and details. Trying to post pics but can't :crap:

bicycletricycle
01-10-2016, 03:26 PM
Fail

Cicli
01-10-2016, 03:28 PM
Nice bike.

velotrack
01-10-2016, 03:33 PM
Hm. Are you uploading to a site like Flickr, or attachments?

Hilltopperny
01-10-2016, 03:37 PM
Got some to upload!

Black Dog
01-10-2016, 03:42 PM
Are the seat tube and down tube swagged?

Hilltopperny
01-10-2016, 03:43 PM
Are the seat tube and down tube swagged?

I believe they all are. The top tube included

velotrack
01-10-2016, 03:58 PM
Two serottas in the rear and a cool dog means you're doing something right.

Hilltopperny
01-10-2016, 04:05 PM
Two serottas in the rear and a cool dog means you're doing something right.

Thanks

VTCaraco
01-10-2016, 04:20 PM
I was in touch with that seller, too. He said that he had a buyer coming. Glad it seemed to work out.

I knew the folks from Serotta a bit at that time and bought one of their T-Max bikes in late 1992. I also coaxed my brother to buy the same generation, +/- a few years, Colorado ATX. Pictures bear very little, if any, resemblance to either of those models, but I also remember a fair bit of experimentation in that time (and perhaps at ALL times with the builders there).

Seems like a cool ride no matter the details. I'd also guess that Dave Kirk could give a little more insight if he bumps into this thread. Other builders from that era are out and about, but I think that Dave is the most active on here.

Hilltopperny
01-10-2016, 04:25 PM
I was in touch with that seller, too. He said that he had a buyer coming. Glad it seemed to work out.

I knew the folks from Serotta a bit at that time and bought one of their T-Max bikes in late 1992. I also coaxed my brother to buy the same generation, +/- a few years, Colorado ATX. Pictures bear very little, if any, resemblance to either of those models, but I also remember a fair bit of experimentation in that time (and perhaps at ALL times with the builders there).

Seems like a cool ride no matter the details. I'd also guess that Dave Kirk could give a little more insight if he bumps into this thread. Other builders from that era are out and about, but I think that Dave is the most active on here.

Yes it's definitely a unique bike and it was a great deal. I am going to clean it up a bit. Hopefully he does bump into it and can shed some light on this bike.

peanutgallery
01-10-2016, 05:11 PM
loving the photo bomb by the dog

with that crank and brakes, its a 93 or older

Hilltopperny
01-10-2016, 05:27 PM
loving the photo bomb by the dog

with that crank and brakes, its a 93 or older

Yes he had too sniff the new bike to see if it was ok. I was thinking early 90's by the looks of everything. It's a 7 speed cassette if that helps in dating it. It's certainly a cool frame. I have a few serotta road bikes but this is my first serotta mountain bike and a unique one at that.

AngryScientist
01-10-2016, 05:36 PM
very interesting frame!

can you take a picture of the bottom bracket? i'd be interested to know the serial number. we have a collection of them here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=99078

along with various catalogs which you might want to thumb through to see if anything pops out. i would like to add your serial number to the database we have started.

what kind of fork is that on it?

Hilltopperny
01-10-2016, 06:08 PM
very interesting frame!

can you take a picture of the bottom bracket? i'd be interested to know the serial number. we have a collection of them here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=99078

along with various catalogs which you might want to thumb through to see if anything pops out. i would like to add your serial number to the database we have started.

what kind of fork is that on it?

There is no serial number at all on the bottom bracket. I was told that the mother in law competed in the olympics and was local to saratoga. I didn't get the name. It was only a mile or so up the road from Bens dads old hardware store. I have the 94 and 96 catalogs but this frame is definitely different than the ATX and max frames. The fork is a manitou sport.

David Kirk
01-10-2016, 08:04 PM
This is a wild-assed-guess so take it with a grain of salt.

I was involved with the design and build of the T-max and ATX prototypes and one thing I can say for sure that that they, like every official and real Serotta ever made, got a serial number.

It's also 100% certain that Ben did not build this frame. Ben didn't build any bikes himself by this point.

It shares some things in common with the T-max but also has some odd things that weren't on any prototype or production build.

So.....here's my WAG - there were a few guys who worked there that........how do I put this?........were not always above board. Two guys I can think of built "Serottas" in their spare time and then sold them locally as the real deal. The big local market was Skidmore College where cycling was popular and the kids had real money. These two stole materials, used the shop without permission, and then sold the bikes and pocketed the cash. So they looked sort of like a Serotta because they used some of the same materials (albeit stolen) and some were even painted with Serotta logos because they lubed the paint shop guys with dope or beer to get that work done with stolen paint materials and shop time. Still to this day I'd like to give the two of these guys a swift kick in the balls and the only reason I don't name them here and now is that I hope that they got their lives straightened out and now regret this. I know one of them lurks here and he will know who he is. I doubt anyone would have ever known their names then or now and neither are the reputable guys so many have heard of that came out of Serotta.

I'm guessing you have one of these bikes. If so it came out of the right building but it wasn't a real Serotta and didn't go through the same QC and design a real one did.

Just my guess.

dave

Hilltopperny
01-10-2016, 08:35 PM
This is a wild-assed-guess so take it with a grain of salt.

I was involved with the design and build of the T-max and ATX prototypes and one thing I can say for sure that that they, like every official and real Serotta ever made, got a serial number.

It's also 100% certain that Ben did not build this frame. Ben didn't build any bikes himself by this point.

It shares some things in common with the T-max but also has some odd things that weren't on any prototype or production build.

So.....here's my WAG - there were a few guys who worked there that........how do I put this?........were not always above board. Two guys I can think of built "Serottas" in their spare time and then sold them locally as the real deal. The big local market was Skidmore College where cycling was popular and the kids had real money. These two stole materials, used the shop without permission, and then sold the bikes and pocketed the cash. So they looked sort of like a Serotta because they used some of the same materials (albeit stolen) and some were even painted with Serotta logos because they lubed the paint shop guys with dope or beer to get that work done with stolen paint materials and shop time. Still to this day I'd like to give the two of these guys a swift kick in the balls and the only reason I don't name them here and now is that I hope that they got their lives straightened out and now regret this. I know one of them lurks here and he will know who he is. I doubt anyone would have ever known their names then or now and neither are the reputable guys so many have heard of that came out of Serotta.

I'm guessing you have one of these bikes. If so it came out of the right building but it wasn't a real Serotta and didn't go through the same QC and design a real one did.

Just my guess.

dave
Thanks Dave,

I actually just bought a terraplane on the classifieds here and can't wait for it to get here! As far as this bike goes, I suppose you could be right. I was just going by what the woman who had it told me. It has suntour rear dropouts on it and looks a lot like the 91 tmax I saw online after searching for early serotta mountain bikes. I was wondering how it would be possible for there to be no serial number. The bike seems well put together I am still in the process of cleaning it up. Kind of a bummer to hear that it's possibly a stolen material built model. I thought the story had some merit that I was told based on location and having such a rare bike hanging in the garage. Either way I will tune it up and take it out for a ride every once in a while. It's a very cool looking frame and it fits so I will keep it around for a bit.

Adam

bicycletricycle
01-10-2016, 10:24 PM
When did Ben stop making frames?


This is a wild-assed-guess so take it with a grain of salt.

I was involved with the design and build of the T-max and ATX prototypes and one thing I can say for sure that that they, like every official and real Serotta ever made, got a serial number.

It's also 100% certain that Ben did not build this frame. Ben didn't build any bikes himself by this point.

It shares some things in common with the T-max but also has some odd things that weren't on any prototype or production build.

So.....here's my WAG - there were a few guys who worked there that........how do I put this?........were not always above board. Two guys I can think of built "Serottas" in their spare time and then sold them locally as the real deal. The big local market was Skidmore College where cycling was popular and the kids had real money. These two stole materials, used the shop without permission, and then sold the bikes and pocketed the cash. So they looked sort of like a Serotta because they used some of the same materials (albeit stolen) and some were even painted with Serotta logos because they lubed the paint shop guys with dope or beer to get that work done with stolen paint materials and shop time. Still to this day I'd like to give the two of these guys a swift kick in the balls and the only reason I don't name them here and now is that I hope that they got their lives straightened out and now regret this. I know one of them lurks here and he will know who he is. I doubt anyone would have ever known their names then or now and neither are the reputable guys so many have heard of that came out of Serotta.

I'm guessing you have one of these bikes. If so it came out of the right building but it wasn't a real Serotta and didn't go through the same QC and design a real one did.

Just my guess.

dave

David Kirk
01-10-2016, 10:38 PM
When did Ben stop making frames?

By the time I started in 1989 Ben was spending 99% of his time in the office or traveling. He was drafted into helping in the shop when need be at that time and he was very quick and efficient but this was not common at all and only happened when guys were out sick or we had a big deadline.

It's a shame he didn't spend more time getting his hands dirty....he's a gifted builder.

Dave

upon3
01-10-2016, 10:49 PM
I'm guessing you have one of these bikes. If so it came out of the right building but it wasn't a real Serotta and didn't go through the same QC and design a real one did.

Wildly interesting story.

If it is the case with this bike, you may not have what you thought you had, but you have an oddity and rarity, even still. Even with the company materials acquisitions, it's kind of a more intriguing bike than the MiL's build. An oddball, either way. Pretty cool.

thirdgenbird
01-10-2016, 10:55 PM
Yes he had too sniff the new bike to see if it was ok.

My greyhound does this if I bring in a new bike. He usually keeps his distance a few days and then carefully and systematically smells it. He follows all the way around both rims, all the frame tubes, and the handlebar radius.

d_douglas
01-10-2016, 11:52 PM
Interesting story Dave! I love this forum.

velotrack
01-11-2016, 12:20 AM
I wouldn't be bummed if that was the case for this frame. It's kinda cool, IMO, that this is sort of a mystery...

steveandbarb1
01-11-2016, 06:18 AM
Could this have been a prototype when they began their mfg for Fat Chance?

Hilltopperny
01-11-2016, 07:52 AM
Could this have been a prototype when they began their mfg for Fat Chance?

I believe this bike is earlier than the serotta produced fat chance bikes. Good guess though.

Buzz Killington
01-11-2016, 08:47 AM
Giana Roberge connection?

David Kirk
01-11-2016, 08:48 AM
Giana Roberge connection?

No.


dave

jr59
01-11-2016, 09:19 AM
I have no idea about the bike, but I sure do like having Dave around to give us a bit of insight into things.

Thanks Dave

Hilltopperny
01-11-2016, 02:18 PM
Adam,
The guy who was supposed to see bike canceled. You're next on list. B. Serotta made the bike for my in-law. Because it's a prototype he made especially for her to use at the Olympic training center there is no serial #. She's very tall so it's fairly "unisex." Let me know if you'd like to come check it out.

From the email I was sent before picking it up. I sent an email inquiring who the in law was that the bike was built for. Hopefully she will return my email so we can better assess the situation and possibly figure it out.

HenryA
01-11-2016, 08:42 PM
I'm not seeing any Serotta-esque features on that frame. I have seen more than one Serotta MTB (and own one now, though much newer) and there's no resemblance that I pick up on.

Hilltopperny
01-11-2016, 10:24 PM
I'm not seeing any Serotta-esque features on that frame. I have seen more than one Serotta MTB (and own one now, though much newer) and there's no resemblance that I pick up on.

Henry it has the same tube shapes as a 1991 tmax with different seat tube top and braze ons for the cable routing. The tubes are tapered and ovalized varying in diameter. I took some pics of my early 90's tg and the mountain bike to try and show the similarities as far as the tubing goes. It rides pretty nice as well.

Hilltopperny
01-11-2016, 10:47 PM
I believe this bike is earlier than the serotta produced fat chance bikes. Good guess though.

The cable routing is very much like the fat chance bikes but looks like the early tmax tube shapes.