Had a wheel sorta fall apart on me while riding...

[Dead Man]

I bought this wheel from a local dude... unridden tubular alloy, handbuilt by some supposedly legendary old local wheelbuilder like 15 years ago, and living in this guy's basement ever since. I checked for true and round, and it looked perfect... apparently I should have checked spoke tension too.. but I did not. So I glue it up and put maybe 50 miles on it, all super cold weather riding, and then Saturday I have an opportunity to do a mid-day 70-mile/4000' commute out to a jobsite to meet with one of my guys... YES! First good ride in forever.

Cept I get half a block down the road, and realize my front wheel is just about on the verge of completely tacoing. I limp it back to the garage and discover what I think is one/some broken spokes/nipples - completely loose and rattling around... My previous ride had been a post New Year's Eve party ride home that I barely remembered - did I run over a homeless person or something??

But I quickly realize that actually none of the spokes are broken - they're all just unthreaded! Spinning the wheel around in the stand, plucking, some sing, and most just thud dully, or rattle completely loose.

What do you think happened?? There's no spoke prep on the threads, probably just oil (and the Wheelsmith oval spokes threaded back into their brass nipples really smoothly.. like they're still lubed pretty good).. I mean I guess it's possible the thing was kinda half-assed together, untensioned.. and then my cold weather riding gave it just enough slack for nipples to unscrew themselves??

I figure I'll just clean/dab spoke prep/retension one spoke at a time, by way of fix.

Really glad I didn't discover this complete failure a much harder way.

[Mark McM]

The most obvious answer is that the spokes were inadequately tensioned. (build error). Nipples unscrew when there isn't enough friction in the threads to keep them from turning, and the thread friction is generated by tension on the spokes. Spoke de-tension slightly as they pass through the LAZ (Load Affected Zone) at the bottom of the wheel, and if there wasn't enough static tension, they may loosen enough to allow the nipples to turn.

On the other hand, a wheel that is poorly designed may also not hold together. If a flexible rim (such as a lightweight shallow alloy tubular rim) is built either with too few spokes, or spokes that are too thick, then even if the spokes were built to maximum tension, they may still de-tension so much in the LAZ that the nipples are prone to unscrewing.

By the way, a properly designed and built wheel does not need 'glue' (such as Spoke Prep, Loctite or boiled linseed oil) to keep the nipples from unscrewing.

[Peter P.]

So in roughly 50 miles on this wheel, it does the Watusi?

Wheels don't de-tension that drastically, and even if they did then not in a paltry 50 miles.

You COULD re-tension it and see what happens but I'm wondering if something else is amiss.

I'm thinking the builder used 14 gauge nipples with 15 gauge spokes. In that instance I've seen some real wheel problems occur.

It won't hurt to re-tension it and see what happens. If it fails again soon after, suspect the spoke/nipple mismatch.

[oldpotatoe]

The most obvious answer is that the spokes were inadequately tensioned. (build error). Nipples unscrew when there isn't enough friction in the threads to keep them from turning, and the thread friction is generated by tension on the spokes. Spoke de-tension slightly as they pass through the LAZ (Load Affected Zone) at the bottom of the wheel, and if there wasn't enough static tension, they may loosen enough to allow the nipples to turn.

On the other hand, a wheel that is poorly designed may also not hold together. If a flexible rim (such as a lightweight shallow alloy tubular rim) is built either with too few spokes, or spokes that are too thick, then even if the spokes were built to maximum tension, they may still de-tension so much in the LAZ that the nipples are prone to unscrewing.

By the way, a properly designed and built wheel does not need 'glue' (such as Spoke Prep, Loctite or boiled linseed oil) to keep the nipples from unscrewing.

What Mark said, spot on!!(altho I use boiled lindseed oil-old dogs and all that).

For right above, even at super low tension, the spokes would pop out of the nipples, if 14g nipps on 15g spokes.

BUT for The B, I would check to make sure the nipps match the spokes..I'd true, round, dish, tension, stress relieve and then use it..see what happens.

[rwsaunders]

A riding bud purchased a new set of 5800/H+Son wheels from Velomine last year and experienced a similar issue. Apparently everything was ok for the first 2-3 rides then spokes started to come loose on the rear wheel.

[merckx]

Under tensioned, and inadequately prepped threads can result in wheel failure within 50 miles of use.

[BdaGhisallo]

"handbuilt by some supposedly legendary old local wheelbuilder"

I fell for a similar spiel some years back with a guy named Ken Bird in England. Was supposed to be an awesome wheel builder, been at it forever... yada yada!

The build was unrideable. They weren't out of true so much as they were wildly wavy! Each rim's left to right was as much as a cm and a half!

Too say I was not impressed would be putting it mildly.

Always get recent testimonials.

[Hindmost]

...the spokes were inadequately tensioned. (build error)...

A long, long time ago I did this to myself. Maybe the second or third wheelset I put together. Finished the wheels late, the night before an event. When first ridden they came apart real quick.

Spoke tension gauges hadn't been invented. Internet hadn't been invented.
Jobst hadn't written his book.

One learns.

[Ronsonic]

I had a set of mass produced wheels do that to me a few years ago. They were cheaper than the parts. They went woobly on me after the first ride, but trued and tensioned up just fine when I went at them. Held up great after that.