Touring front rack and bag questions

[microdraft]

I'm about to ride cross country for the second time. First long haul on this bike(over 400 miles) last cross country ride was supported(it was my summer job)

In the past I've borrowed gear but it's time I have my own stuff.

That said, I'm trying to figure out the best approach to carrying small panniers on the front and a rando bag. I am deadset on using a rando bag, so please don't offer alternatives. And I know this frame needs weight in the front or it feels noodly.

I've found two used ostrich bags the f104 and f106. I like the f106 more, but I'm worried about fit. These guys are within my budget. I like swift, acorn, Giles Berthoud, etc., but they are out of reach for me unless I can find one for under $100. And I'm pretty happy with the design of the ostrich bags, minus the direction of the top flap, but that's not a huge concern for me.

I have 11.5"+/- From the tire to the handlebar. I know my bike is small, but I also have no idea what the average space is on most touring bikes. So if anyone can chime in on that I'd appreciate it. How many inches of space should I expect to subtract for the rack and. Fender? 1-2"?

I really like this velo Orange rack
http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/campeur-front-rack.html
It's affordable and it has the decaleur integrated, which means I have one less thing to buy and I don't have to worry about the size of my bike affecting the use of a decaleur. So it solves a few problems. I like the nitto campee but unless I can find it used it's not happening, then there's the whole attaching a decaleur to my stem and more money.

I can't find many reviews of the VO rack, but I also can't find any bad ones. Has anyone used this rack or have any thoughts about it?

Here's some photos of the bike as its set up now. The fork is not drilled but there is an eyelet on the underside of the fork.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151230/b3ba55dc7b8309b96d141814595ea8cb.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151230/bae2c6067fd86a1e5459542a468ab823.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151230/30415e2d8c52bbfa46b9fb95d9c0f69a.jpg

Thanks in advance!

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[weisan]

micro pal, what kind of handlebar you using?

I don't have any advice to offer except I like the Ortlieb stuff.

[pinkshogun]

who built the frame

[kevinvc]

I'm also considering a front rack in order to do some touring. The VO rack looks really nice. I was looking at this (http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/champs-elysees-front-rack) smaller, less robust one. It doesn't seem as nice as the VO, but it's about half the price. I can't give it any kind of recommendation, I'm just throwing another option out there that I've seen.

I'll be following this thread to see what others have to say.

[gpendergast]

That's an Icarus, right?

IIRC because of the way Paul brakes mount on canti bosses and use the bolt to set spring tension, they don't play nice with racks that mount on canti bosses (like the VO you linked to).

Probably best to have a small front rack (like a nitto m18) and then use a low-rider rack that mounts to the mid-blade eyelets on your fork for panniers.

[R3awak3n]

who built the frame

looks like an icarus

and it looks awesome

[R3awak3n]

That's an Icarus, right?

IIRC because of the way Paul brakes mount on canti bosses and use the bolt to set spring tension, they don't play nice with racks that mount on canti bosses (like the VO you linked to).

Probably best to have a small front rack (like a nitto m18) and then use a low-rider rack that mounts to the mid-blade eyelets on your fork for panniers.
fork isnt drilled though so m18 doesnt work I dont think

[microdraft]

Hi all. Yes it's an Icarus! I had him build my ultimate touring bike a few years ago. Pleasure to deal with A++ would recommend

Also heyyyy @r3awak3n
And yah fork is not drilled :/ another reason I fancy this rack

I'm running mustache bars. So I'd rather not have anything directly on the handlebars, but the ortliebs are nice.

I plan on getting some strutts to mount the rack to the midfork bosses, seems people have done that and if works. Because yah I really don't want to deal with the canti mounts and having to realign my brakes. Blegh.

My SO just put a deposit on a mntn bike at our LBS so they offered a nice discount on the rack. So I put a deposit on it, if it doesnt work out they'll send if back and reimburse my deposit.

I'll update next week and let y'all know how if works out.

Edit: here iz full foto of bicycle
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20151231/9219f34c31069ac02b0e6454a9816ac4.jpg

[R3awak3n]

Hi all. Yes it's an Icarus! I had him build my ultimate touring bike a few years ago. Pleasure to deal with A++ would recommend

Also heyyyy @r3awak3n

I'm running mustache bars. So I'd rather not have anything directly on the handlebars, but the ortliebs are nice.

I plan on getting some strutts to mount the rack to the midfork bosses, seems people have done that and if works. Because yah I really don't want to deal with the canti mounts and having to realign my brakes. Blegh.

My SO just put a deposit on a mntn bike at our LBS so they offered a nice discount on the rack. So I put a deposit on it, if it doesnt work out they'll send if back and reimburse my deposit.

I'll update next week and let y'all know how if works out.

oh HAYYYY! :hello:

I was looking at your headtube and I think maybe the VO headset decaleur would work but now you don't need to do that if you are going to go with the build in decaleur :). Also I run struts for my front rack to the midfork bosses and works perfectly. Also those ostrish bags seem nice, I don't have experience with it directly but for that price, there is nothing else you can have :) swifts come around once in a while but even used they are more than $100

also that is a sweet sweet rig!

[microdraft]

oh HAYYYY! :hello:

I was looking at your headtube and I think maybe the VO headset decaleur would work but now you don't need to do that if you are going to go with the build in decaleur :). Also I run struts for my front rack to the midfork bosses and works perfectly. Also those ostrish bags seem nice, I don't have experience with it directly but for that price, there is nothing else you can have :) swifts come around once in a while but even used they are more than $100

also that is a sweet sweet rig!
:cheers: 🍻 on all the above :cool:

Edit: headtubes not to shabby, 5". Ian did a great job of making a small bike not a small bike. A big challenge for sure.

[m_sasso]

Unless you are leaving home for good I might re-think that over grown erector set of a front rack. I could start a bike frame factory recycling that thing. 400 miles, 5 days? Do you really need everything you are planning to pile on there? Of all the touring I have done the biggest change most people would make post tour would be not to take as much as they thought they might use, and on tour I have never wished for more rack space to hang things on.

I have crossed North America, self supported with some simple lower "S" racks and a small canti supported front platform.

This was my self supported set up last continent crossing,

Ortliebs on the front provided high H2O proof, clothes washing, computer, camera gear, rolled clothes......one big bin.
Arkels on the rear provided compartmentalization and ease of access, tools, camping gear, food.....lots of separate storage areas.

Unloaded

http://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-tech.com-vbulletin/640x480/80-june_bike_013_3a211c39cae56d0fd8f290407dc25414d6bc 5d32.jpg

Loaded

http://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-tech.com-vbulletin/640x417/80-picture_php_pictureid_83449_69372e7eff392c915048b7 45063a9246163c1083.jpg

[kevintice]

Paul makes a canti rack adapter that may help you

http://paulcomp.com/shop/components/rack-adapter/


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[microdraft]

That set up is proper. What canti mounted rack is that? Does it attach under the fork? What fenders are you running? I might want a full rear fender though, since I'll be riding with another person and I don't want to be rude.

I actually plan on carrying a little less than that. I pack the same for five days as I do for five months. This trip is happening in the summer so I'll be able to pack light.

Yeah the 400 mile trip was over about five days.
Unless you are leaving home for good I might re-think that over grown erector set of a front rack. I could start a bike frame factory recycling that thing. 400 miles, 5 days? Do you really need everything you are planning to pile on there? Of all the touring I have done the biggest change most people would make post tour would be not to take as much as they thought they might use, and on tour I have never wished for more rack space to hang things on.

I have crossed North America, self supported with some simple lower "S" racks and a small canti supported front platform.

This was my self supported set up last continent crossing,

Ortlieb on the front provided high H2O proof, clothes washing, computer, camera gear......one big bin.
Arkels on the rear provided compartmentalization and ease of access.....lots of separate storage areas.

Unloaded

http://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-tech.com-vbulletin/640x480/80-june_bike_013_3a211c39cae56d0fd8f290407dc25414d6bc 5d32.jpg

Loaded

http://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/honda-tech.com-vbulletin/640x417/80-picture_php_pictureid_83449_69372e7eff392c915048b7 45063a9246163c1083.jpg


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[microdraft]

Paul makes a canti rack adapter that may help you

http://paulcomp.com/shop/components/rack-adapter/


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Woah! Those are rad! I think I ran across them in my searches but had no idea what they were or where they were from. Thanks!

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[oddsaabs]

If you have a threaded boss under the fork crown you could use one of these.

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/racks-decaleurs/vo-randonneur-front-rack-stainless-steel.html

That plus a headset mounted decaleur would keep the rando bag happy. Then some S shaped low riders and your cook'n with gas.

I just so happen to have such a rack and decaleur I no longer need. If you want them I'd make you a heck of a deal. Just drop me a PM.

[microdraft]

If you have a threaded boss under the fork crown you could use one of these.

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/racks-decaleurs/vo-randonneur-front-rack-stainless-steel.html

That plus a headset mounted decaleur would keep the rando bag happy. Then some S shaped low riders and your cook'n with gas.

I just so happen to have such a rack and decaleur I no longer need. If you want them I'd make you a heck of a deal. Just drop me a PM.
If this rack doesn't work out I may hit you up. Though I'd prefer to avoid using p-clamps on this bike.

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[likebikes]

for touring you want a tubus front rack and a handlebar bag mounted to the handlebars.

[mmfs]

As a point of reference, I tried a fork/steering mounted VO decaleur for my setup and the geometry just didn't work out. The decaleur ended up being too high to align with my bag. Something to try out in person, if you can.

[R3awak3n]

for touring you want a tubus front rack and a handlebar bag mounted to the handlebars.

I agree on the tubus, not so much on those ugly handlebar bags with no rack support.

[R3awak3n]

As a point of reference, I tried a fork/steering mounted VO decaleur for my setup and the geometry just didn't work out. The decaleur ended up being too high to align with my bag. Something to try out in person, if you can.

there is a market out there for decaleurs, everyone has a similar problem. Also no black decaleurs at all. VO decaleurs not adjustable, other decaleurs are way too expensive.

$160 for a GB decaleur, get the f out of here.

[microdraft]

I like tubus racks, that's what I'm running in the back.

First cross country trip I had a handlebar mounted bag and I hated it. Super uncomfortable. I'd rather have no bag than something mounted to the bars.

If this VO rack doesn't work out I'll do the s racks with a bag rack and headset decaleur, if it fits.

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[microdraft]

I picked up the VO campeur rack today and am really happy with its design and construction.

It went on quite easily. Came with the struts to mount to the fork bosses as well as the canti mounts. Oh and I noticed it has eyelets at the front to mount a light.

All that's left to do is saw off the ends at the bottom since I'll be using the top most notch.

http://i.imgur.com/BNt0PoO.jpg

It looks like a bag will fit in nicely. Might have to go with a small or medium bag.
I'm not sure how securing a fender will work though, I feel like the rack is too high off the tire, but maybe with some spacers i could make it work.

http://i.imgur.com/QQYzOCt.jpg

I've finally decided to hold off and save up for the swift orzette. I just really like the design of the bag. And while it's more than an ostrich its cheaper than an acorn or gilles berthoud.

[R3awak3n]

that looks great. glad it worked out!!! :hello:


also.... glad you are saving up for the ozette because its a great bag. I love mine and would not go on a trip without it.

The new hinterland Ozette looks pretty awesome too, lighter and more water resistant and because its stock I think its cheaper.


Do check ebay because they come up once in a while, I will keep my eye open for one for you

[bikingshearer]

It has been quite a few years since I last did a fully loaded tour, but I have done my share (SF Bay Area to Wash DC among them). I have nothing to say about today's panniers - mine are far too old to be relevant to the conversation. And I have never used a decaleur-mounted front bag - the French had not shared that secret when I was doing this stuff.

I have some strong reactions to the front racks in some of the other posts, though. The absolute key to using front panniers is to get then as centered on the front wheel axle - both up-and-down and front-to-back - as possible. That means both the Velo Orange and the Tubus racks pictured get my seal of approval, but the Soma rack pictured gets a big thumbs down for use with panniers. (It looks to me like it wasn't designed with loaded panniers in mind and, again, I have no clue how it would be with a front handlebar bag.)

Centering front panniers on the front axle makes the panniers a non-issue in handling the loaded bike. Putting panniers up high makes the front end squirrelly thus making the bike harder to keep in a straight line. The result is likely not going to be a crash, but you will be just a liiiiiiiiitle bit harder to stay in a straight line. A half hour or hour of that is no biggie, but all day of it, day after day, adds up. And, for that unavoidable and seemingly inevitable time when you have to climb a steep, narrow heavily-trafficked road and holding your line near the right hand edge of the pavement that drops of six inches to many feet about six inches to your right - let's just say that any extra help you can get holding that critical straight line is very, very welcome. Low rider panniers are a Godsend at time like that - and it seems like every long tour has at least one such pitch.

[microdraft]

It has been quite a few years since I last did a fully loaded tour, but I have done my share (SF Bay Area to Wash DC among them). I have nothing to say about today's panniers - mine are far too old to be relevant to the conversation. And I have never used a decaleur-mounted front bag - the French had not shared that secret when I was doing this stuff.

I have some strong reactions to the front racks in some of the other posts, though. The absolute key to using front panniers is to get then as centered on the front wheel axle - both up-and-down and front-to-back - as possible. That means both the Velo Orange and the Tubus racks pictured get my seal of approval, but the Soma rack pictured gets a big thumbs down for use with panniers. (It looks to me like it wasn't designed with loaded panniers in mind and, again, I have no clue how it would be with a front handlebar bag.)

Centering front panniers on the front axle makes the panniers a non-issue in handling the loaded bike. Putting panniers up high makes the front end squirrelly thus making the bike harder to keep in a straight line. The result is likely not going to be a crash, but you will be just a liiiiiiiiitle bit harder to stay in a straight line. A half hour or hour of that is no biggie, but all day of it, day after day, adds up. And, for that unavoidable and seemingly inevitable time when you have to climb a steep, narrow heavily-trafficked road and holding your line near the right hand edge of the pavement that drops of six inches to many feet about six inches to your right - let's just say that any extra help you can get holding that critical straight line is very, very welcome. Low rider panniers are a Godsend at time like that - and it seems like every long tour has at least one such pitch.
Yeah the panniers mountain the perfect spot on this rack, with the hub hitting the center.,

I'm using ortliebs small panniers in the front and I think they will be weighted nice on this rack. The only complaint I have is that the lower hookmisnt low enough to be snug, but it is low enough to catch and prevent the bag from flying out.

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[microdraft]

that looks great. glad it worked out!!! :hello:


also.... glad you are saving up for the ozette because its a great bag. I love mine and would not go on a trip without it.

The new hinterland Ozette looks pretty awesome too, lighter and more water resistant and because its stock I think its cheaper.


Do check ebay because they come up once in a while, I will keep my eye open for one for you
That would be great thanks. I just have to check the measurements and see what will fit.

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[m_sasso]

I see a number of deficiencies with that rack that I would certainly consider some modifications before I used it to go anywhere.

What do you figure is going to hold your Ortlieb pannier QL2.1 upper mounting loops/hooks from sliding for and aft on that upper rack tube?

[hokoman]

I see a number of deficiencies with that rack that I would certainly consider some modifications before I used it to go anywhere.

What do you figure is going to hold your Ortlieb pannier QL2.1 upper mounting loops/hooks from sliding for and aft on that upper rack tube?

You can adjust the clips side to side on the ortliebs to sandwich the vertical rails so they do not slide back and forth. Ortliebs are super easy to set up with their three adjustment points - top clips and the lever on the bottom that can swing all over the place... sounds weird unless you have them.

The rack above looks really useful. I wish ortlieb made a front rack with a platform...

[microdraft]

Yes. I was able to adjust the top clips to go outside the vertical rails and they hold tight around it. I just need to find the inserts for the thinner rails. And that's a needle in a haystack adventure.

It was a tight squeeze though between the back rail and the strut that reaches to the midfork bosses but it seems like it will work well.

The rack is not perfect but outside of going custom it meets all my needs so I am quite happy with it.

Now I'm just really bothered by the black tubus rack in the back. Might look to make a trade for a silver one soon.

At the same time while I'm touring I'm not really going to give a ···· about that. Not to mention it will be covered with gear.