Duplicating "near telephathic" Bike Handling

[Peter P.]

Velo News proclaimed the Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod its Road Bike of the Year. In their award they said, "but what really sets the SuperSix apart from its all-rounder brethren is its near-telepathic handling. It would be an exaggeration to say you can steer with your eyes, but sometimes it feels like it. Think about where you want to go, and the Supersix takes you there."

I personally try to separate the effect components and frame material have on the overall feel of the bike and would like to think I could get that telepathic handling on a custom frame by merely asking the builder to duplicate the geometry in my size.

So my question is, isn't it just a matter of duplicating the geometry to get all the benefits of the SuperSix's handling? I mean after all, this isn't proprietary or mystical. Are the components and frame material that integral to the handling of a bike?

[eddief]

and thought I probably should not believe everything I read on the internet. It's a bike and there are only so many variables that contribute to handling. Bikes have been around a couple of hundred years and my guess is the SuperSix is no better than many many other state of the art bikes available today. Think it's geo and tires mostly. Material = road feel. And like many subjective things about bikes, I'd bet one man's telepathic handling is another's "don't care for it."

Velo News proclaimed the Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod its Road Bike of the Year. In their award they said, "but what really sets the SuperSix apart from its all-rounder brethren is its near-telepathic handling. It would be an exaggeration to say you can steer with your eyes, but sometimes it feels like it. Think about where you want to go, and the Supersix takes you there."

I personally try to separate the effect components and frame material have on the overall feel of the bike and would like to think I could get that telepathic handling on a custom frame by merely asking the builder to duplicate the geometry in my size.

So my question is, isn't it just a matter of duplicating the geometry to get all the benefits of the SuperSix's handling? I mean after all, this isn't proprietary or mystical. Are the components and frame material that integral to the handling of a bike?

[rnhood]

I think fork stiffness plays a role in handling, especially on fast descents. As well, weight balance should also effect the handling feel to a point. So I'm inclined to say no, geometry alone does determine the perceived handling characteristics. If you're buying custom, be sure to make your expectations very clear to the builder, otherwise you might make an expensive mistake.

[shovelhd]

Fit is a major factor. Any bike that fits like a glove is going to have neutral handling, it the right fit and the right geometry for your riding style that makes a frame exceptional.

[steamer]

I have found that all of my bikes go where I want them to without any significant, conscious effort.

I don't think I am rare. Seriously, are many of you struggling with your bike and how it handles?

I do notice some differences between different bikes, but the differences are quite subtle, in the grand scheme of things.

Lots of things is cycling are about fetishism. Folks claim to feel 1mm and 0.5 degree differences in things all the time. The Placebo is strong with cyclists.

[Tickdoc]

I've read comments like that before....always when the author is proclaiming the winner of the "best bike of the year" category. Sometimes you just feel like it was made for you.

[Ken Robb]

and "it is laterally stiff and vertically compliant!":rolleyes:

[fuzzalow]

Velo News proclaimed the Cannondale SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod its Road Bike of the Year. In their award they said, "but what really sets the SuperSix apart from its all-rounder brethren is its near-telepathic handling. It would be an exaggeration to say you can steer with your eyes, but sometimes it feels like it. Think about where you want to go, and the Supersix takes you there."

Well, this is typical hyperbole from the bike rags because it's focus is on the bike and not on:

The fit & position that the rider has achieved on the bike, if any. And
The skill of the rider in riding the bike from the balanced position on the bike that allows the rider to let the bike run freely beneath him

It is completely true that you steer with your eyes. Your kinesthetic sense on a bike relies on your vision and inner ear - you go/steer where you look. That is the reason MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) and other rider education teaches not to "target fixate" when confronted with dangers in riding on the street or on the track - do not stare at the car cutting you off but look at the escape route in the road towards safety. Because you go where you look.

The actual bike has very little to do with any of this other than it has to be sized correctly to fit. There is nothing in any bike geometry that can overcome incompetence or a lack of skill in a riders response to riding. Conversely, there is no negative impact from any bike geometry that could inhibit a rider from properly executing maneuvers on the road if he has the skill to fulfill the task.

It is not the fault of the publications that they write fluff like this. It is entertainment. But many beginner and intermediate riders might think this is where it is at and what it is about. Not even close. Most bike forums and chat rooms are not much better. Dunning-Kruger means being "DK'd" with a constant stream of smoke targeted at your lower gastro-intestinal. But there will be instances where there is the possibility of real knowledge and you hope to be able to recognize some of that when you read it. Be skeptical. And that includes me 'cos I might be full of it too.

Fit is a major factor. Any bike that fits like a glove is going to have neutral handling, it the right fit and the right geometry for your riding style that makes a frame exceptional.

Yup. I can only add that this is but the tip of the iceberg because it describes the successful end result and not how to actually get to this fruition. That is a completely separate process and skill-set. But I hope that those who know might help those seeking a better way.

[BobO]

There's an off repeaded statement in all forms of motor racing. "Hit your marks"

Entry. Apex. Exit.

Put your eyes on the entry point, before you get there look to your apex, before you get there look to your exit. When you put your eyes in the right places your mind solves the rest easily. Watching Sagan descend you can see this illustrated.

[Ronsonic]

I don't think I am rare. Seriously, are many of you struggling with your bike and how it handles?

My 80s Fisher HKEK tried to kill me a couple times in the last two days. I hadn't ridden the poor girl in years and it took some time getting used to that vintage MTB geometry, balance and gearing.

More generally, yeah, you're right. We aren't exactly wrestling with our bikes. Mostly we've internalized the motions required to the point that these things are intuitive. Unless a bike handles in a way very unlike what you've become accustomed to, there are no problems just motoring along and letting the bike and your reflexes find the way.

[mg2ride]

Well, this is typical hyperbole from the bike rags because it's focus is on the bike and not on:

The fit & position that the rider has achieved on the bike, if any. And
The skill of the rider in riding the bike from the balanced position on the bike that allows the rider to let the bike run freely beneath him

.....

While a fully agree with you regarding bike rag hyperbole, your list has a wee bit of hyperbole as well.

A "professional" could descend on a beach cruiser faster than most of us could regardless of our "fit".

[OtayBW]

No mentioned of trail? For a given rider rider equally well fit to two bikes in terms of reach, setback, height, etc., differences in front end geometry alone (i.e., HTA, rake, and the resulting trail) will dramatically affect steering and handling...no matter where your eyes are looking.

[rodcad]

I have found that all of my bikes go where I want them to without any significant, conscious effort.

I don't think I am rare. Seriously, are many of you struggling with your bike and how it handles?

I do notice some differences between different bikes, but the differences are quite subtle, in the grand scheme of things.

Lots of things is cycling are about fetishism. Folks claim to feel 1mm and 0.5 degree differences in things all the time. The Placebo is strong with cyclists.

I totally agree with this ^ I think if you blindfolded the majority of cyclists and threw them on identical set up bikes, they wouldn't know one from another. 99.9% of it is in your brain and what pleases it.

[FastforaSlowGuy]

I always laugh at these stupid awards and their focus on handling. Take a look at the gro chart for most of these bikes - especially the trail numbers. Nice and neutral if you ride a 56. But if you ride a XS/S it's a totally different story. These awards should come with details on what frame size was tested. Not many "neutral" bikes in my size. Same goes for materials, tube selection etc. All these reviews, even if honestly written, reflect variables unique to the bike and rider combo.


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