The King R45 versus Campy Bora TEST!!!!

[velomonkey]

Rock Solid scientific test!!!!! King R45 hand-built wheels laced to DT Swiss 415 rims versus Campy Bora One Carbon clincher wheels.

Calibration. Me. With 2 glasses of a 3 full fingers of Woodford Bourbon consumed turning over cranks to 10 full rotations at 53x12 . . . . . . a split second before the torque wrench was applied to the faucet handle, it had been calibrated by top members of the state AND federal Department of Weights and Measures... to be dead on balls accurate!

King R45 spinning wheels till stop 56.4 seconds and 54.6 seconds.

Bora One One minute 45.3 seconds and One minute 49.2 seconds.

This was a scientific test . . . . Result I will ride my R45 wheels and when I drop anyone I will say "oh I suck . . . you just suck more."

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/611/23290855913_2bcc3f4890_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Bu8J2g)IMG_7108 (https://flic.kr/p/Bu8J2g)

[bigbill]

Same chain lube on both? If not, invalid.

[velomonkey]

Big Bill - valid point.

Gold Link chain lube applied to Campy Record Chain a 12-25 cassette on each bike. Truth be told - the R45 is a Chorus cassette and the Bora Record Cassette.

The results are most troubling.

[robin3mj]

Dead on balls accurate.
Nice, counselor Gallo.

[beeatnik]

Velomonkey, I like your stealthbrag style.

[R3awak3n]

everyone sell their bora wheels on the cheap because they are no good

[christian]

I think you read the results wrong:

CK: Average 55 seconds
Campa: Average 107 seconds

Also, chainlube won't matter. Lube on freehub pawls would.

[bigbill]

Big Bill - valid point.

Gold Link chain lube applied to Campy Record Chain a 12-25 cassette on each bike. Truth be told - the R45 is a Chorus cassette and the Bora Record Cassette.

The results are most troubling.

I think the key to coast down is the cassette. Just to keep everything the same, I only use Chorus cassettes. I do have a wheelset with silver Record hubs which are faster than the black ones, but I'm preaching to the choir here.

[R3awak3n]

I think you read the results wrong:

CK: Average 55 seconds
Campa: Average 107 seconds

Also, chainlube won't matter. Lube on freehub pawls would.

the bora one one threw me off :)

[ldamelio]

What were wind conditions? Was bourbon on the rocks? Crushed ice or cubes? These things are important for scientific validity.

[oldpotatoe]

Rock Solid scientific test!!!!! King R45 hand-built wheels laced to DT Swiss 415 rims versus Campy Bora One Carbon clincher wheels.

Calibration. Me. With 2 glasses of a 3 full fingers of Woodford Bourbon consumed turning over cranks to 10 full rotations at 53x12 . . . . . . a split second before the torque wrench was applied to the faucet handle, it had been calibrated by top members of the state AND federal Department of Weights and Measures... to be dead on balls accurate!

King R45 spinning wheels till stop 56.4 seconds and 54.6 seconds.

Bora One One minute 45.3 seconds and One minute 49.2 seconds.

This was a scientific test . . . . Result I will ride my R45 wheels and when I drop anyone I will say "oh I suck . . . you just suck more."



Hope you have some music in your cave...it needs it along with some cycling pix. :D

[Formulasaab]

As has already been pointed out, chain lube and cassette design mean absolutely nothing in this test. Freehub design, freehub lube, bearings, total mass, mass location, and aerodynamics are the contributing variables here.

So, thinking about the freehub... :rolleyes:
As witnessed by their marketing, CK is all about the "clickbuzz". Why? I don't know. Some weirdos like their bikes loud and claim a speed benefit. I gather these are the Harley-Davidson types.

Campagnolo makes no such claims, leading us to believe that they haven't found the secret to making noisy freehubs yet.

The most obvious conclusion from your tests (how could you miss it!?!?! :confused:) is that noise is correlated to friction and with an inverse relationship to performance! So I ask you, why didn't you have a (calibrated of course) decibel meter and qualified sound technician on hand? :no:

[Mikej]

Is your your arm NIST traceable?

[adrien]

green paves are known to be faster. Green means go.

[chiasticon]

funny, I did the "spinning cranks till stop" test on a King gxp BB versus the sram one last night. with King, they only turn about two revs till stopping, sram they spin almost ten. "totally scientific. clearly, I'll use the sram one" I though.

also, your bike cave looks like my bike cave. :beer:

[soulspinner]

funny, I did the "spinning cranks till stop" test on a King gxp BB versus the sram one last night. with King, they only turn about two revs till stopping, sram they spin almost ten. "totally scientific. clearly, I'll use the sram one" I though.

also, your bike cave looks like my bike cave. :beer:

Here I thought I was the only one one who was " bike poor " on this forum...:p

[berserk87]

That bike cave reminds me of Buffalo Bill's basement from "Silence of the Lambs". I am assuming that you are not keeping any people in a pit down there.

[velomonkey]

That bike cave reminds me of Buffalo Bill's basement from "Silence of the Lambs". I am assuming that you are not keeping any people in a pit down there.


My house is from 1870 - the sides of the foundation, as you can see, are the original masoned stones. At some point a floor was poured in.

So yea, dark and spooky!!!!!!

[adrien]

That bike cave reminds me of Buffalo Bill's basement from "Silence of the Lambs". I am assuming that you are not keeping any people in a pit down there.

"It puts the lube on the cain..."

[Mzilliox]

Wait wait, so whats the results?

[chiasticon]

Here I thought I was the only one one who was " bike poor " on this forum...:phah! it's more like velomonkey said: old house.

[apeescape]

Wouldn't the weight of the rims and tires make a difference? I would take a loose-ball campagnolo hub over a CK any day of the week. I find on the road that the CK freehub has more drag then any other hub I have ridden. I believe this drag caused my chain to eject from the big-ring after a few high cadence efforts (140+).

[ultraman6970]

The campagnolo wheels spin more?? This can confirm that the old lose ball bearings are still faster than a sealed cartridge???

Somebody needs to come up with a set of hubs like the campagnolo high end ones with lose balls. I would even put lose balls in UT if it was possible :D Take the bearings out and press cones in their place and then put a ball bearing cage in the cups (specially made for it).

[velomonkey]

The campy wheels blew 'em away. Not even close.

I do have a set of campy silver has laced to Ambrosio rims and will spin those up. That should be a but telling, too.

[Formulasaab]

Wouldn't the weight of the rims and tires make a difference? I would take a loose-ball campagnolo hub over a CK any day of the week. I find on the road that the CK freehub has more drag then any other hub I have ridden. I believe this drag caused my chain to eject from the big-ring after a few high cadence efforts (140+).

Of course...
Within my jesting reply back on page 1, there were a few elements of truth.

Freehub design, freehub lube, bearings, total mass, mass location, and aerodynamics are the contributing variables here.

[Black Dog]

The campagnolo wheels spin more?? This can confirm that the old lose ball bearings are still faster than a sealed cartridge???

Somebody needs to come up with a set of hubs like the campagnolo high end ones with lose balls. I would even put lose balls in UT if it was possible :D Take the bearings out and press cones in their place and then put a ball bearing cage in the cups (specially made for it).

You mean a set like these? :D

http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/images/Record%20Hubs.jpg

or these?

http://www.londonbicycleworkshop.com/images/DA900SET.jpg

[ultraman6970]

Besides those two :P Campagnolo sure soon will stop making hubs and that will suck, shimano is still manufacturing those dura ace hubs?

I meant somebody else.

[Black Dog]

Besides those two :P Campagnolo sure soon will stop making hubs and that will suck, shimano is still manufacturing those dura ace hubs?

I meant somebody else.

Shimano is still making them. No one else has the industrial capacity to make the races for loose ball hubs of this caliber outside of the big two. It is not cheap or easy to tool up to do this. This is why they are the only ones. I did not know that campy was going to stop making the record hubs.

[FlashUNC]

Try it with some Japanese whisky and report back with the results.

[Formulasaab]

I believe the magneto bearing Curtis Odom uses (optional) qualifies. That's super low production numbers.

[AngryScientist]

Try it with some Japanese whisky and report back with the results.

OMG.

i'll have a few fingers tonight just cause.

http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/U.S./876/493/japanwhisky.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

[FlashUNC]

OMG.

i'll have a few fingers tonight just cause.

http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/U.S./876/493/japanwhisky.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Its admittedly a new obsession for me, but an obsession nonetheless. I have a problem.

If only I liked bike parts from that part of the world as much...

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5643/23899280265_e582d427b1_b.jpg

[velomonkey]

Try it with some Japanese whisky and report back with the results.

OMG - I just picture myself yelling 'Banzai'!!!!! Like a drunk Mr Miyagi!!!!!

So, um, sign me up. Challenge accepted!!!!!!!

[FlashUNC]

OMG - I just picture myself yelling 'Banzai'!!!!! Like a drunk Mr Miyagi!!!!!

So, um, sign me up. Challenge accepted!!!!!!!

Get some Hibiki. For wheel testing times, make it, Suntory Times.

[CSTRider]

I'd keep that carbon bike away from the furnace so it doesn't explode.:no:

[pdmtong]

I should have backed up the truck when Yamazaki 18 was $110. The Yamazaki 1985 was mind blowing. The aged stuff is so expensive now once these go I doubt I can buy back in. Note that is Coffey malt not grain. Waaaaaay better. Karuizawa is closed. That bottle auctioned for some stupid price (https://www.scotchwhiskyauctions.com/auctions/84_the-47th-auction-ends-on-sunday-march-1-2015/56743_karuizawa-noh-1999-13-year-old-cask-869-75cl/). My LBS has both Yamazaki 18 and Hibiki 21 - perfect for some FB $M guy. It's crazy but supply on aged Japanese is pretty limited now.


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/23/ef4ada3322e2b2cbe309af045a30edce.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

Shimano is still making them. No one else has the industrial capacity to make the races for loose ball hubs of this caliber outside of the big two. It is not cheap or easy to tool up to do this. This is why they are the only ones. I did not know that campy was going to stop making the record hubs.

It's been speculated for years but still there for 2016..Will they stop eventually? Don't know but probably. I'm surprised mavic still makes rims, but they do.

BUT Campag has the tooling and production in place, and they sell very well So for a while, I'd say.

Only in Japan..