CO2 inflators

[JohnS]

I know we discussed this way back on the old forum, but here goes. I had my first flat of the season Saturday. I got totally disgusted using my mini pump and have decided to get a CO2 inflator. What are your recommendations?

[Richard]

Anything that uses non threaded cartridges. Then you can use BB gun cartridges at about 50 cents a pop instead of a couple of bucks for threaded.

[Bill Bove]

I get maybe a half dozen flats a year but I carry my inflator with me on every ride so I use the Innovations green inflator that uses the threaded cartridges. The non threaded cartridges require a larger, bulkier, heavier inflator so I think the lighter weight, of the minamalistic threaded inflator, carried on a daily basis makes up for the added cost of threaded cartridges (6x$2) not much more than 12 bucks a year.

[victoryfactory]

John;
There is only one thing I hate more than minipumps:
CO2 Inflators!!!!

I have tried every minipump and every inflator. I could open a minipump museum!
I HATE THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!

Inflators malfunction, leak, freeze your hand, jam on the valve, don't put enough air in your tire, etc

Minipumps take forever, break your valves, require the upper body strength of Arnold (before he gave up steroids), dont put enough air in your tire.

Now that I've got that off my chest, I recommend the Crank Bros minipump (the one with the aluminum barrel and gauge) It's the best I've found of all these evil devices, I carry it in my jersey pocket, no problem. It has a two stage setting, one for volume to start and one for high pressure to finish. It's the only one of these torture sticks that has the VF seal of approval. You can actually get 100 PSI without too much work. If I wasn't so hung up on looking cool, I'd carry a frame pump (they work)

VictoryFactory, Did I mention that I hate CO2 and minipumps?

PS: The nurse says that if I eat all my gruel, I can go for a walk outside today

[victoryfactory]

Dear Forum Members:

I apologize for the comments by VF above, It was my turn to watch him. I just turned my head for one second, and he was on line again.

VF's nurse.

PS: I heard him mumble something about carrying "all those extra cartridges, rattling around in your jersey" as he drifted off

[djg]

of years now--the one with the trigger. It works just fine. I've had very few problems with CO2 cartridges over the years, and nothing that a spare cartridge didn't take care of.

I never met a mini-pump I thought was decent, much less good.

[Too Tall]

Gee, Grant Peterson says the Silca mini-pump is the only mini pump he'd never carry. So, I'd never not buy it????

Air innovations rocks. Great little insurance policy.

[Kevan]

Frame pumps are the best when you get a flat.
Mini pumps plain (pardon me) suck!
CO2 come in second.

I too use an Innovations pump that screws onto the CO2 bottle. I keep it in my shoes during "off" times so I know to put it in my back jersey pocket during "on" times. These bottles cost more and are most commonly found in lbs' than anywhere else. I use electric tape to keep the two bottles together (hence, no rattling) with the threaded tops facing opposite directions. If you're lucky as I've been, up until just now, you won't be needing it. I didn't have a flat all last season and just a few weeks ago, my first. When you don't need to use these pumps they work REAL good!

I'd suggest that you buy a couple extra cartridges and practice using them from the safety of your own front porch. Road R&D ain't the best environment to learn. These pumps are a bit touchy to control.

One other thing...CO2 molecules are apparently very small and leak faster through tubes than our crap filled air. So when you get home from your ride you best bleed the tube and reapply the smog.

:D

[Kevin]

I use the threaded Innovations CO2. You just have to be careful to check the rubber washer because once it cracks the inflater is useless.

Kevin

[Jeff N.]

1. Order your Serotta with a pump peg. Better to have one and not need one than to need one and not have one.
2. Buy a Zefal frame pump.
3. Be annoyed when all your riding buddies with cartridges and mini pumps ask, "Can I borrow your Zefal? These take too long", or "I want to save this cart. for another time". Jeff N.

[dohearne]

One other thing...CO2 molecules are apparently very small and leak faster through tubes than our crap filled air.
:D

Where did this piece of suspect information come from? Given that air is predominantly N2 and O2, I would suspect that the effective radius of a CO2 molecule is greater, not smaller than the majority of air molecules. Perhaps a bit of marketing mis-information from mini pump manufacturers.

[Elefantino]

I don't know about the molecular structures, but a C02 fill invariably finds me with a flat the next morning. No big deal, I just use my floor pump.

I use a bonehead-easy, can't-screw-it-up Innovations Microflate. You screw on the cart, then unscrew to fill. Easy. Cheap, too. However, one of my riding pals just got an Innovations Second Wind, which combines a mini pump with C02. It looks cool. However, I believe that in order to get to 100 psi, you have to pump for several hours. Kidding.

I hate pumping. I like to fill and go quickly. A 16g cart gets me to 100 psi and home.

I also have a pump peg and a frame pump. I don't use them much. The frame pump, that is. The pump peg sort of goes with the CSi.

Mike

[Big Jim]

I have had a inflator which takes threaded cartridges for about the last 4 years and I would not go back to carrying any pump...my inflator had the trigger and I have had no problem with any aspect...I always carry two cartridges.

[molly22]

i've flatted, back and front. the co2 cart. was fine and i don't recall ever having to refill after. Just the normal psi pump prior to riding. i always carry at least two, but the great suggestion of taping them together might have made my day. thank you.

[M_A_Martin]

I have two, well, three, but two are the same model. I prefer the version of Microflate that uses the threaded carts for my road bike. I carry the heavier model that uses non-threaded carts when riding my mtb.
I don't see a weight advantage because I always carry three or four carts. Two for me and at least one extra...because I have had three flats in one ride on one bike on Heinz Drive "back in the day".
One night we had four flats on two bikes out there (a tandem and a regular) that put all three of us on foot for a long walk back to Northville because we didn't have enough tubes and patches to fix more than one bike and we weren't leaving our buddy out there to get mugged. (also "back in the day")

Ah, to live and ride in Detroit.

[OBSteve]

I've used the threaded cart's for a year now, both mountain biking and road (alot more flats offroad..) and won't go back. No more standing around in 30 degree weather fumbling with a micro pump for 100+ strokes. I use one of those tiny little screw on jobs and keep at least two two carts packed away. One question though. Doesnt that hyper cold gas damage the tube as it enters? I've heard of freon being used to crystalize bike locks to be able to break them open. Same thing?

[Ahneida Ride]

The only reason people will ride with me is ..... I have a frame pump.

[dbrk]

Okay, let me ask the obvious question: is there any reason to buy a bike that doesn't have a pump peg? My Pegorettis don't have them and I have made sure that the new one does. I have asked a zillion times. I have only one other great bike without a pump peg. For this I use that same Inflator thing that has been mentioned. These things not only work like crap (especially in comparison to a real frame pump), they strike me as a something we environmentally smart people should not own unless we must. Let's not really go down that road too far but I feel like an ass using one of these and then having to throw that dar(nm)n thing away. Makes me somehow very grumpy. Mini-pumps...I just spoke with Grant about these again today. And he likes those Silcas way better than any others. I am skeptical but Grant is usually so practical and smart that you have to believe him. A bike without a frame pump peg is just incomplete. I keep a couple of them around and have one I truly love but this CO2 cartridge thing is for the birds.

dbrk

[kenyee]

A bike without a frame pump peg is just incomplete.

Topeak Road Morph has velcro straps for the pump holder, so no need for pump pegs

[CarbonTi]

The CO2 canister thing is contrary to the esprit de corps of cycling.

You ride an efficient, human-powered machine that doesn't negatively impact the environment - and you gotta used compressed CO2 to fill the tires and generate waste for the canister empties?

You ride for hours at a time enjoying a level of fitness that most average Joe's can't even comprehend much less desire to achieve for themselves - and it's too strenuous to pump the air molecules into a tire on the strength of your arms?

CO2 fills a tire up faster than pumping - Yeah OK I concede the 40 second time gap versus a Zefal HPX.

I would agree that using a mini-pump is a waste of frustration. Using a mini for a repair on a winter ride with temps in the teens or 20's makes you a repeat offender. CO2 is no help here either - the part of the repair that will freeze you to death is changing the tube or the tubular. By the time you're pumping the mini, at least you're moving and getting warmed up again.

Not a fan of mounting a frame pump underside the top tube, ruins the aesthetic line of the frames main triangle, as does the pump nub on the head tube. I run Zefal HPX's along the left seat stay, doesn't lose a bottle cage mount on the seat tube. If you run a HPX in a size 1, you can even fit it along the seat tube of a compact frame so my reason for carrying CO2 vanished.

Sometimes bad luck prevails and there is more puncture than canister available.

[MGS9500]

A few points

1.) The post that CO2 leaks out of the tube faster than room air is correct. It has nothing to do with the size of the molecule. It has to do with the way the CO2 reacts with the rubber.

The theory is as follows:

http://www.cus.cam.ac.uk/~jae1001/teaching/materials/M6_Lecture_6.pdf


The mechanism is well
understood.

The key point is that it's not just a simple case of
diffusion. Sorption of gases also plays a part in
gaseous transfer.

Basically the CO2 "dissolves" in the rubber and is
transported across the tube, then released. For efficient
transfer a gas needs to dissolve well and be readily
released into the air once it has diffused across the tube.
CO2 has appropriate intermolecular forces to "dissolve" in
the rubber and the low concentration outside helps its
release (think of both take up and release as equilibrium
processes, high concentration (partial pressure) of CO2
inside the tube helps drive take up by the rubber, low
concentration (partial pressure) outside helps drive the
release of CO2 once it has diffused across).

2.) The weight of a Topeak Morph pump is approximately 185 grams. The weight of three CO2 containers, a mini pump and an inflator head is over 200 grams.

3.) The Morph pump has a pressure gauge and I can easily pump to 120 without a sweat.

I hope this helps.!!!!!

[Johny]

A few points

1.) The post that CO2 leaks out of the tube faster than room air is correct. It has nothing to do with the size of the molecule. It has to do with the way the CO2 reacts with the rubber.

The theory is as follows:

http://www.cus.cam.ac.uk/~jae1001/teaching/materials/M6_Lecture_6.pdf


The mechanism is well
understood.

The key point is that it's not just a simple case of
diffusion. Sorption of gases also plays a part in
gaseous transfer.

Basically the CO2 "dissolves" in the rubber and is
transported across the tube, then released. For efficient
transfer a gas needs to dissolve well and be readily
released into the air once it has diffused across the tube.
CO2 has appropriate intermolecular forces to "dissolve" in
the rubber and the low concentration outside helps its
release (think of both take up and release as equilibrium
processes, high concentration (partial pressure) of CO2
inside the tube helps drive take up by the rubber, low
concentration (partial pressure) outside helps drive the
release of CO2 once it has diffused across).

2.) The weight of a Topeak Morph pump is approximately 185 grams. The weight of three CO2 containers, a mini pump and an inflator head is over 200 grams.

3.) The Morph pump has a pressure gauge and I can easily pump to 120 without a sweat.

I hope this helps.!!!!!

MGS,

Thanks for the info. I was always puzzled that CO2 leaks out faster than room air, since CO2 is actually bigger than O2 and N2 (=most of the rooom air). BTW, now I seem to recall some Physics and Chemistry I learned ...

[Tom]

that you put something where the handle's going to bang the heck out of your top tube. My experience was that an old Zefal took the paint off. Pain in the rear.

I now have one of those CO2 inflators that has a trigger so even a genius like me can use it.

I use the cartridges as depth charges. When some idiot on I-90 is tailgating me at 80 on the drive to work, used cartridges start slipping out my sunroof. They bounce really well and make an unholy noise rattling around their grille. "Oh Hemi!" cries the driver.

Just kidding, but it sure is tempting.

[Jäger]

I have the Innovations Ultraflate CO2 System and it works great for me.

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Ultraflate+CO2+System&vendorCode=INNOVAT&major=3&minor=9

I took the base and drilled a hole in the bottom of it that allows to store a cartridge in it with the head of the CO2 cylinder head protruding out through the bottom. (I also carry an additional 2 - 12 gr. cartridges just in case I need 'em).

[Ahneida Ride]

I have felt cushions on my pump to prevent it from banging on the Top Tube. I also use a MTB pump strap to secure it to the frame.

My first flat was 10 miles from civilization. I cried withe joy when I
saw my Zefal. It worked ! However IMHO, no one manufactues a
truly great frame pump.

[vaxn8r]

I've been using CO2 for about 8 years. First of all, it works and immediately.

Secondly, in the prior 15 years of frame pump usage, I'll bet I've thrown away more rotten frame pumps (3 silca's and two Zefals included....BTW you can't find steel silca heads anymore) during that time than CO2 cartridges in half the time. I flat about 0-2 times per 4-5K miles. I don't think we need to disparage CO2 users. Next we worry about how many times you repair a tube or tire before chucking it. How often you lube your chain? How often you chuck a used chain? What do you use to clean your bike?ow often. Do you drive to work? What kind of car? Do you eat fast food? Blah blah blah.

....Just a pet peeve about the PC attitude which creeps up this board a bit too often.

[Ahneida Ride]

Remember that the mail man .... is the Person Person. :rolleyes:

Let's design a decent Frame pump and make a fortune. It' can't be
rocket science. Personally, i'd pay $50 for a Pump that would work
with 100% certitude. :D

[va rider]

Though he will have to explain his nic to me sometime, I agree with vax8nr.

I guess I don't really care about what is chic, I get a fair about of flats and when I am on the road I want to change the tube quick. I don't want my buddies standing around while I mess with a pump.

I use a Serfas co2 inflator. Works with both threaded and unthreaded co2. I keep a catridge in the inflator and 2 spares. It inflates my tire to 100 lbs or so in about 2 seconds and that gets me home or through the ride. It works with both presta and schrader valves. Once home, I let the co2 out and use my floor pump to inflate.

[gt6267a]

riding this afternoon. a guy had a flat and had one of those silly mini-pumps. concerned that he was going to use all his energy pumping up his tire and not make it home, i handed him my zefel frame pump. comments like, "geez, this is really nice" and "i need to get one of these" were in abundance.

per the c02 deal. many many many years ago i carried them thinking it was cool. i found that sometimes i made mistakes with the cannister or maybe it was the design made it tough. either way, i didn't always get a full inflatation. so, i tried another cannister... after finding myself without a full inflation and without another cannister leaving me stranded, i switched to pumps.

per mini-pumps, i own a blackburn mini-pump. it sucks. if anyone wants it, send me cash for postage and its yours, the pump is free.

[Too Tall]

An inexpensive Silca XL (size) frame pump costs bubkis (that's yentel for cheap) and will easily pump to 90 psi FAST! They take paint so you can look tres kul too. Old school riders know not to extend the pump handle until it tops out, take note. Oh, they are light ;)

Pump pegs look great. I esp. like the bent nail ones.

[Kevan]

that frame pumps are best. Risking a season of flats here...I've been tossing a co2 pump with two cannisters into my rear pocket for over a year now and have only used it once just to top off a soft tire. Still, co2 is a selfish solution. I'm not inclined to offer a flattened soul my own insurance.

Standard Calfee's can only handle frame pumps using a seat stay mount, and the bike and I are just vain enough to not like the looks of it.

What would you expect from a plastic guy? :D