Head-set still has play

[many_styles]

Howdy,

The components are a ENVE road fork, and a Chris King 1 1/8th with GripLock system. Both were 'professionally' installed.

I've tried a handful of adjustments. Always tighten the bolt about a 1/4 turn each time. I apply the front brake caliper to the rim, and I still feel a small amount of knocking/play. I can feel it when I'm braking esp while descending. It's really minute. I can't feel it when I simply grab the stem w/ one hand, and w/ the other force the wheel forwards/backwards while sitting on the TT.

It seems odd that the play won't go away after a handful of adjustments. Is there something I should know about the GripLock system?

TIA,
-Alex

[JAGI410]

What frame?

[Steve in SLO]

Are you sure your brake caliber is not the culprit?

[many_styles]

What frame?


Vamoots CR.


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[many_styles]

Are you sure your brake caliber is not the culprit?


That's right. Let me double check.


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[eddief]

never done one, but sounds like plenty of opportunity to not do it right:

http://ck-wordpress-media.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/InSetManual.pdf

Nothing against Chris King, but when googling this problem I found a thread on some mtb forum and here is a humorous quote:

"Because it is so well made and long lasting that it will continue to not stay tight for you for decades."

[ultraman6970]

Dumb and obvious questions ok?

- The expander or whatever you are using inside of the fork is at least like half an inch below the top of the steering tube?

- the stem (or the last spacer over the stem) is at least 3 or 5 mm above the top of the steering tube?

- Did you put a small spacer between the top cap and the stem? I noticed that some top caps for some reason do not like to be under the stem, maybe the bottom of the stem is not 100% even??, worth to try.

- If the headset gets lose, pretty much is because the stem is getting lose, Did you try putting some carbon paste to the steering tube just to be sure the stem wont go anywhere.

[eddief]

http://forums.mtbr.com/santa-cruz/chris-king-headset-issues-new-bronson-build-893802.html

[cmg]

there's an air gap between the bottom of the top cap and the top of the steerer tube? or - 'the stem (or the last spacer over the stem) is at least 3 or 5 mm above the top of the steering tube?" if there isn't the top will never tighten AND YOU'LL GET PLAY. .

[eddief]

bet one is squishing up against the other:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/09/30/interbike-2010-chris-king-grip-lock-system/

[lhuerta]

....simply sounds like u r not applying sufficient compression. Give ur topcap another quarter turn and then tighten ur stem before checking play.

[pdmtong]

....simply sounds like u r not applying sufficient compression. Give ur topcap another quarter turn and then tighten ur stem before checking play.

or the compression plug is slipping (happened to me)

[tigoat]

I have installed too many Chris King headsets in the last few years, especially with Insets with the griplock system and never had a problem. That ENVE plug is okay but far from great. This plug needs to be tightened properly because it is so short or it will slip, rendering it useless for loading the headset properly. Preload it properly I am sure it will be tight and smooth.

[Mikej]

Frame faced correctly? Try a different stem. I have moots stem and two ti frames with King aheads, for some reason the stem clicked on one bike but not the other. Got a second stem and it's fine for years so far. Go figure.

[ultraman6970]

After checking this out, looks like the problem is right there in the top cup and cap design, too many pieces. That rubber o-ring :/


bet one is squishing up against the other:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/09/30/interbike-2010-chris-king-grip-lock-system/

[David Kirk]

One thing to check is that the crown race isn't moving on the crown. If the crown race isn't tight on the fork it will shift back and forth when you do the front brake test no matter how much headset preload there is.

If you are very careful, and a bit clever, you can put the fingers of one hand on the interface between the crown race and the crown while doing the front brake test and if it's loose you'll feel it shift and knock. Or you can slip the fork out of the frame and if not right the race will slip right off.

dave

[Fatty]

And make sure that the crown race is installed in the correct direction.

[jds108]

Can you post some pics? That might make it easier to assist.

[many_styles]

Wow! Thanks Formites for all the tips. I have plenty of things to double check.


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[BdaGhisallo]

I am having the same issue with the King HS on my Zank. No matter how much I torque down on it, it still feels like the HS is loose. I feel it under heavy braking. I am thinking of going with a CC 110 on my next Zank and being done with King. I got a few griplock top caps when King first changed the design and now that I am facing this issue, I am remembering those issues. I had trouble even getting those first ones to seat on the upper race because sliding them down the fork caused the O rings to get all jammed up.

As "weak" a design as the original King top cap assembly was, for me it always seemed to work better than their current version.

[many_styles]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/13/d7064589d23f0b2e6dd8044aa2901108.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/13/fa45aa1d4424c2625363b8643e29433a.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/13/f76fc78ad0a26641b5e66ccfc59f20fb.jpg


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[macaroon]

trim your gear cables!

[lhuerta]

Hard to tell from blurry pic, but it appears your top cap is not completely flush with top of stem which means bottom of ur topcap is likely hitting top of steertube.

[eddief]

me thinks that will fix it. Been there done that.

[DRietz]

I'm quite confident that your top cap is binding on the top of the steerer/expander.

A 5mm spacer on top will remedy the situation.

Don't let all the backseat mechanics worry you about your GripLok Chris King - it's a good, reliable system when installed correctly.

Please contact me directly if you would like some local help by a trained, licensed mechanic. Cheers!

[many_styles]

I'll pick up a 1-2mm spacer today.


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[DRietz]

5mm is going to be your best bet (as 1-2mm spacers are not regularly stocked products). In fact, most carbon fork manufacturers call for there to be enough steerer through the stem that using one is necessary, as the expander then slightly protrudes from the top of the stem.

You might think it's less clean, but I promise you nobody else will notice or care.

[Mikej]

Is your front hub tight?

[drewellison]

Also, bad or poor bearings can cause headset problems. I had a headset where the bearings appeared smooth and correct (but were an off brand and certainly not original). Didn't matter how tight I got the compression, it'll still "pop" during hard braking even though there was no play in the headset. Finally, I got the idea to replace the bearings with some from Wheels Mfg (I think) and they weren't that much money, but boy, did it make the headset buttery smooth and the problem went away.
Drew

[tumbler]

I had the same issue.... Chris King with Enve 2.0 fork. Headset was like new, fork was brand new, frame was brand new. I had my LBS install the headset. I rode the bike out of the shop and immediately noticed a ton of knocking when I braked. I took it right back to them and said something isn't right. They tightened the headset compression down a bit more and sent me off again. 90% of the play and rocking/clicking went away, but there was still a click anytime I braked hard, especially while descending. I tried tightening the compression a bit more at home, but that didn't help and I could tell that it was already more than tight enough to work properly. I eventually pulled the fork and stem off, took a rag to everything, regreased, and reinstalled everything. The problem completely went away. My suspicion is that one of the bearings or rings or something wasn't seated properly in there. You may want to try that and see if it helps.

[Formulasaab]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet.

When checking headset play, don't just hold the front brake and shake. You won't be able to tell if it is the headset or the brakes.

1. Hold the front brake with one hand,
2. turn the wheel 90 degrees,
3. grasp the headset where it meets the headtube (top or bottom) with the other hand,
4. and then rock the bike back and forth.

* By turning the wheel 90 degrees, you negate almost all the effect of play in the brakes.

* By grasping the headset, you can feel minute movements of a loose headset in your palm that you may not be able to feel or hear otherwise.

* If you feel a knocking/looseness when rocking the bike but you don't feel it in your palm, you know to check your wheel bearings or skewer.

I'm not saying that you don't have a headset problem if you didn't test it this way, but I'm hoping maybe I can offer you an improvement in your testing process.

[many_styles]

Hello Formites! Took the bike back to the shop that installed the fork (frame and fork only). This other mechanic found the expander plug was loose, added a 10mm spacer on top of the stem. In addition had them remove the cups, clean up, put a dab of anti-seize. No play! Yay!

All, free of charge!

[Birddog]

Hello Formites! Took the bike back to the shop that installed the fork (frame and fork only). This other mechanic found the expander plug was loose, added a 10mm spacer on top of the stem. In addition had them remove the cups, clean up, put a dab of anti-seize. No play! Yay!

All, free of charge!

Not really, what is your time and aggravation worth. I hate it when the LBS or anybody else for that matter can't correctly perform the task for which they were hired. End of rant, glad you got it fixed.

[many_styles]

True. Granted they only had the frame and fork when they initially installed the fork. The cups were already installed. Can you precisely adjust a headset without most, if not all the components installed (wheelset, brakes, bar etc)?

[Birddog]

Point taken. Certainly better to be built up for adjusting.