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unterhausen
12-06-2015, 11:17 PM
I have been doing 10 minutes of 30 second on/30 second off intervals hoping that would get me over my reluctance to hurt myself. I am pretty sure I could do that for a much longer time. But when I try to do 1 minute intervals, I just can't make myself do it. Anyone ever work through this issue?

FlashUNC
12-06-2015, 11:29 PM
To steal a marketing phrase from a certain sporting goods company: Just do it.

BobbyJones
12-06-2015, 11:36 PM
Learning to be uncomfortable is the secret to not only getting faster on the bike, but moving ahead in most aspects of life!

It may hurt, but chances are it won't kill you. Embrace the discomfort to enjoy your future rewards.

wildboar
12-07-2015, 12:12 AM
Think I read where Tyler Hamilton mentioned he got a lot faster doing 40 seconds on/ 20 second rest intervals.

kgreene10
12-07-2015, 12:17 AM
Get a coach. The embarrassment of reporting failure to another person may help you get over your aversion to pain. Strangely, it works for me.

joosttx
12-07-2015, 01:10 AM
Go easier. 30 secs on 4:30 off . Repeat 6 times .

Ozrider
12-07-2015, 02:47 AM
Train with a club or group. Interval or sprint training where you have a few riders to compete with makes you work harder as you don't want to get dropped.


Parlee Z5, Trek Madone, Jonesman Custom

majorpat
12-07-2015, 03:57 AM
Pain is just weakness leaving the body!

But seriously, to achieve what you have said that you want in your chosen sport, sooner or later you have to embrace the suck. It will make you better and the short periods of being uncomfortable will produce gains.

rnhood
12-07-2015, 04:26 AM
Train with a club or group. Interval or sprint training where you have a few riders to compete with makes you work harder as you don't want to get dropped.



This is the best advice imho. Just start riding with a fast group and you will get stronger. More fun too.

carpediemracing
12-07-2015, 06:40 AM
I haven't been able to do minute intervals since I don't know when - last time I did 60 second long intervals consistently was 1983-84.

I did do VO2 max intervals 2015, really the first time I'd done organized intervals since then.

I race for my intervals. My training is JRA and chasing trucks.

bcroslin
12-07-2015, 07:12 AM
Train with a club or group. Interval or sprint training where you have a few riders to compete with makes you work harder as you don't want to get dropped.

This. And then when you're strong enough to do all of the work on the front into the wind you can attack to get your intervals done.

livingminimal
12-07-2015, 07:24 AM
Coach + Power Meter

Of course, neither will give you the killer instinct needed to be comfortable frothing at the mouth, tasting nothing but lead.

gdw
12-07-2015, 07:26 AM
Are you training for a specific event or do you just want to be able to ride at a faster pace?

Gummee
12-07-2015, 07:29 AM
I'm not sure what to say. On one hand, going faster isn't everything. ...but... if that's your goal, then ya gotta push.

JRA is fun. Training is teh suck.

M

Avincent52
12-07-2015, 07:29 AM
There's always distraction.
Put the trainer by the television.
Put a great song on your Ipod.

Say I'm going to go hard until the commercial is over, or through the first verse and then the chorus.

sandyrs
12-07-2015, 07:45 AM
Looks like you live near some hills. Go ride up one then down it then up it then down it.... and repeat until you're tired.

Might not be as brutally efficient as trainer intervals, but IME it's way more tolerable.

chiasticon
12-07-2015, 08:06 AM
what intensity level are you doing the intervals at? from my understanding, 30 seconds of on/off are usually done FULL GAS and if you're doing it right, you're going blind/ready to puke near the end. trying to do the same thing for a full minute might be your issue.

personally, I have a hard time doing intervals inside. doing a 2x20 session on the trainer or rollers is really mentally difficult for me, and seems to be more demanding physically too. trying the same thing outside... yeah it's hard and it hurts, but also seems easier for some reason. (and yeah, I'm gauging the effort in both places with a power meter.) so maybe try that? hill repeats or group rides, like others have mentioned.

deechee
12-07-2015, 08:13 AM
I remember reading this article from velonews (http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/bikes-and-tech/the-torqued-wrench/the-torqued-wrench-i-cant-make-it-stop_303112)and really reflecting what it means to "suffer". I often think back to it while doing long 20-30min test TTs.

nm87710
12-07-2015, 09:21 AM
Good Luck

Lewis Moon
12-07-2015, 09:30 AM
Looks like you live near some hills. Go ride up one then down it then up it then down it.... and repeat until you're tired.

Might not be as brutally efficient as trainer intervals, but IME it's way more tolerable.

This. When I was younger I found a pretty brutal little hill that got steeper as you went up. It was only about 300m long but it looped so I could just coast around and do it again. I remember seeing my HRM peg at 212 one time.

Hills are great because you really can't let up. Couple this with some fast group rides and you'll get better or blow up.

unterhausen
12-07-2015, 09:48 AM
when I was younger, I would do group rides, so I am familiar with the benefits. Now I'm too slow to keep up at all. And they quit at this time of year. All my friends are old lazy guys like me. Simply stated, I would like to be able to ride with just about anyone I want.

I'm targeting 400 watts for 30 seconds. I'm sure I could go higher than that, but there might be a problem with wimping out.

I'm trying to get faster in general so I can enjoy cycling more. I am really good at going slow uphill, and slow in general.

nooneline
12-07-2015, 12:31 PM
I have been doing 10 minutes of 30 second on/30 second off intervals hoping that would get me over my reluctance to hurt myself. I am pretty sure I could do that for a much longer time. But when I try to do 1 minute intervals, I just can't make myself do it. Anyone ever work through this issue?

So, for starters, 1 minute intervals are brutal brutal brutal. They are to EVERYBODY. I forget the specifics, but right around 60 seconds you basically exhaust a few different energy systems and are running on fumes before new ones start kicking in to help you. there's a reason that the kilo is one of the most feared disciplines. it's because the amount of time it takes - a little over a minute for most mortals - is just this godawful area.

However, I want to back up and touch on the fact that you're doing 30/30s in order to get faster. The first thing I learned about training, that I知 surprised that more bike racers don't talk about, is that in order to overcome your weaknesses, you have to spell them out - and then you have to do workouts specifically targeted at your weaknesses. Your limiters.

Generally, you can split workouts into two categories: recovery and fatigue tolerance, or maximal power. The difference in how long you recover between your efforts: a track racer, hoping to improve her or his 30-sec power, will do a 30 second effort and then get off the bike for 10 minutes in order to fully recover before the next one. The goal is to produce as much power as possible in each of those intervals. By comparison, in 30/30s, you're not producing anywhere NEAR your max 30-second ability - you're just training your body to be able to keep going, a little bit, when your head is on the stem and you're breathing through your eyeballs. Maximal power versus fatigue tolerance - capisce?

If you want to get FASTER, you need to identify your weaknesses and train to address them. If your weaknesses are anaerobic recovery then maybe you're doing the right thing with your 30/30s- I don't know. There really is no rule of thumb - but if there was a rule of thumb I'd say that the best way to get faster is to do two sweet spot training workouts per week and one VO2max workout per week. You can get more information on these through the googling.

MattTuck
12-07-2015, 12:55 PM
What makes you think that 30 second efforts are going to be effective for you?

Sounds like my obsession with 4x8min intervals in the past.

Get a coach (I can recommend one) or do some more work on developing your plan.

shovelhd
12-07-2015, 01:14 PM
when I was younger, I would do group rides, so I am familiar with the benefits. Now I'm too slow to keep up at all. And they quit at this time of year. All my friends are old lazy guys like me. Simply stated, I would like to be able to ride with just about anyone I want.

I'm targeting 400 watts for 30 seconds. I'm sure I could go higher than that, but there might be a problem with wimping out.

I'm trying to get faster in general so I can enjoy cycling more. I am really good at going slow uphill, and slow in general.

I still don't see what you are trying to achieve. Why are you getting dropped on the group rides? What kind of rides are they? If they are hammerfests then if you are not doing a steady dose of high intensity training like most racers, then you are going to get dropped. 30 second intervals would not be my choice. If you are getting dropped during the attacks and surges then you should focus on recovery. Over unders are a great way to accomplish this and not kill yourself. Remember that when you start including intensity to your training then you have to start adding more rest.

unterhausen
12-07-2015, 02:34 PM
the reason I'm doing 30 second intervals is simply that's the only time interval that I can tolerate mentally. And I want to get my heart rate up. I know this is kind of a weird situation. And it's sort of like writers block in a way. But I'm pretty sure that low intensity isn't going to help my overall speed.

benb
12-07-2015, 02:43 PM
Do you have a power meter? Heart Rate meter?

30 seconds is a very short duration to do quality intervals at for anything other than FULL GAS. HRM barely stabilizes in that time period. I've never owned an on-bike power meter (have one on my trainer) but power is much better for that short of a period.

What books have you read? If you're not going to get a coach read Friel's training bible and some of the other well known books.

I would not think 30-second power is what is getting you dropped.. you're probably not at that power level when you're getting dropped, and if you have trouble pushing yourself for more than 30 seconds that's probably a big part of the issue in a group too as any time you're going to get dropped you're probably putting yourself in discomfort for much more than 30 seconds before you get dropped.

MattTuck
12-07-2015, 02:46 PM
I can't speak to the training merits of 30 second intervals, but I have to say that music (good fast beat on headphones) and a classics race on youtube, are enough to get me really motivated to complete intervals of many lengths.

Maybe the solution, if it is 100% mental, is just to take some time off. It seems counter productive to keep doing that to your body and mind.

shovelhd
12-07-2015, 02:57 PM
the reason I'm doing 30 second intervals is simply that's the only time interval that I can tolerate mentally. And I want to get my heart rate up. I know this is kind of a weird situation. And it's sort of like writers block in a way. But I'm pretty sure that low intensity isn't going to help my overall speed.

30 seconds wil get your heart rate up but that's not why you're getting dropped. If 30 seconds of any kind of high intensity is all that your brain can fathom, then you have to develop your recovery. The act of recovering is what wills you to do the same painful thing again and again.

Look into over unders. Once you can do two sets of three consistently, raise the effort. Once you have raised the effort, mix in some race winning intervals. These are a set of over unders followed by a 30 second ramp up to a full tilt sprint.

If you have a power meter, PM me and I'll send you a few example workouts.

Louis
12-07-2015, 03:01 PM
Not sure it this has been posted up-thread, but there's a difference between hurting yourself (actual, significant, bad stuff that will prevent you from riding for the next few weeks) and "it hurts a bit because I was pushing myself longer and harder than usual."

fiamme red
12-07-2015, 03:03 PM
If you don't want to do intervals, ride with a group that's faster than you. You'll get dropped at some point. Go back and ride with the group again and again, each time trying to stick with them longer.

I got dropped from a fast group ride yesterday, but during the time that I stuck with them I got a good workout, much better than if I had tried pushing myself to do intervals while riding alone.

david
12-07-2015, 03:04 PM
Different intervals for different results.
Each is designed to tax and therefore improve different energy systems.
You also need to know what your threshold is so you can be putting out the right power for the intervals you're doing. It's not simply about wattage or perceived effort. It's about percentage of threshold. And the rest in between intervals is just as important to get right.
That's what most well structured intervals are based on.
Get a power meter and a coach - or buy a training package from Training Peaks.
Let the fun begin.

bikerider888
12-07-2015, 03:06 PM
I'd rather do endless 20 min intervals (FTP work) than 30 sec intervals.

The OP should probably consider longer intervals with proper pacing (powermeter). If that doesn't work then maybe hard group rides aren't going to work out for you.

Cycling is about suffering

Waldo
12-07-2015, 04:00 PM
Train with a club or group. Interval or sprint training where you have a few riders to compete with makes you work harder as you don't want to get dropped.

That's it: leave it to others to hurt you if you can't do it to yourself.

teleguy57
12-07-2015, 04:17 PM
Read this. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1937715418?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00) Good examples of how top athletes approach pain.

93legendti
12-07-2015, 05:19 PM
10 minutes of 30/30 intervals sounds painful:

I like Ti Designs' interval program:



That is so true - it's the classic mistake made by most beginners in the sport. I coach a cycling team where every September I get a new flock of riders, most have little or no experiance in racing. It's always the same, they want to go fast in October and November. If I allow that, they get to a point where they have one speed - something in the 21ish MPH range. Racing is all about who hangs when it gets really fast. Forget about average speed, if you get spit out when it hits 30, your day is done. So, base miles are slow and there are plenty of them. Intervals come later, they're damn hard, it's where the speed comes from. So how do you go slow? Teach yourself to think in terms of percent, or as I like to put it, tenths. Base miles are done at a low percentage of your total capacity, somewhere in the 3/10th to 4/10ths range. It's not about intensity, it's tens of thousends of stress cycles, and it's time in the saddle. Keep in mind that intervals come later, and you should dread the intensity, so enjoy the base mileage while you can.

Sometimes it helps to get a glimpse of what's to come. I have my riders do most of their interval work on trainers (it's controlled and winter in New England is kinda harsh for outdoor interval work). So here's the drill: first you set up a baseline - a gear and cadence that keeps you around 75 - 80% of your AT. When you're not doing the interval you're back at the baseline - no coasting after the interval, if you try that in a fast paceline you'll get shot out the back. The interval is 30 seconds, the recovery is 90 seconds. The goal is 10 intervals, be happy with 6, anything past that is a bonus. The intervals are 100% effort, maybe more. After the first interval you're wheezing like an old geezer and you're starting to think this is gonna get ugly. The second one is slightly better, but you notice that the 30 seconds hard feels like an hour, and the 90 seconds at baseline goes by in the blink of an eye. The third and fourth intervals get harder and harder, the wheezing no longer dies down during the recovery period. The words "I can't" start to enter your mind as the next interval starts. On the 5th interval you find that your rib cage isn't large enough for your lungs to expand...

That's three months away, keep it in mind as you go out for your base miles. If you show up for intervals fresh and motivated, you may survive. If you push the pace in November, not a chance...

Louis
12-07-2015, 05:28 PM
If you don't want to feel any pain, then I suggest you try a CII indoor rower - no pain at all, just a nice, simple, easy work out. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spwA5BncPPY

http://rowfit.typepad.com/.a/6a0167653f95b1970b0168eab43b77970c-pi

steamer
12-07-2015, 06:52 PM
Unter lives in close proximity to several 1,000 ft climbs. I have told him repeatedly to go do a couple 20 min threshold intervals up and down those twice a week but he won't listen to me.

laupsi
12-07-2015, 07:25 PM
Unter lives in close proximity to several 1,000 ft climbs. I have told him repeatedly to go do a couple 20 min threshold intervals up and down those twice a week but he won't listen to me.

Altoona? Takes me back to your town's awesome tour. What fond memories 😊

93legendti
12-07-2015, 07:31 PM
I am lucky if I can find a 100' climb around here. 1000' damn, at least ride them for fun - if you can't train in a structured way, at least it will get the heart rate up.

sandyrs
12-07-2015, 07:41 PM
Unter lives in close proximity to several 1,000 ft climbs. I have told him repeatedly to go do a couple 20 min threshold intervals up and down those twice a week but he won't listen to me.

:crap:

shovelhd
12-07-2015, 07:43 PM
Unter lives in close proximity to several 1,000 ft climbs. I have told him repeatedly to go do a couple 20 min threshold intervals up and down those twice a week but he won't listen to me.

That's not going to help him with intensity. He still hasn't said how and why he is getting dropped. Maybe all he needs is FTP, but that's not a cure-all.

Mrs. Shovel thinks I should coach people. Sometimes I wonder.

Louis
12-07-2015, 07:47 PM
He still hasn't said how and why he is getting dropped.

I'm guessing that it's because he isn't as fast as the other guys. ;)

steamer
12-07-2015, 07:48 PM
Some FTP work is, IMO, all he needs. Unter wants to raise his cruising speed on randos. He doesn't need to sprint, bridge groups, or survive attacks.

MattTuck
12-07-2015, 07:48 PM
Unter lives in close proximity to several 1,000 ft climbs. I have told him repeatedly to go do a couple 20 min threshold intervals up and down those twice a week but he won't listen to me.

1,000 feet? 20 minutes would be a chump time up such a climb. VAM of 1000 would you have up that thing before the interval is over.


I keed, I keed.

steamer
12-07-2015, 07:49 PM
That's not going to help him with intensity. He still hasn't said how and why he is getting dropped. Maybe all he needs is FTP, but that's not a cure-all.

Mrs. Shovel thinks I should coach people. Sometimes I wonder.

It's not your fault. The OP is being too vague with his objectives.

steamer
12-07-2015, 07:50 PM
:crap:

Please don't do that. That looks painful.

steamer
12-07-2015, 07:50 PM
Altoona? Takes me back to your town's awesome tour. What fond memories 😊

Unter is smart enough not to live near me. But he's not all that far, either.

steamer
12-07-2015, 07:52 PM
1,000 feet? 20 minutes would be a chump time up such a climb. VAM of 1000 would you have up that thing before the interval is over.


I keed, I keed.

Hah. Yeah. I like to do 20 min "all out" up the first half (or so). Ride the rest of the hill as slowly as I can stand, then coast back down and repeat once. That's a very good ride. Works for me at least.

sandyrs
12-07-2015, 08:10 PM
:banana:Please don't do that. That looks painful.

:banana:

steelbikerider
12-07-2015, 08:59 PM
The lazy man's guide to getting faster.
Join Stava
Find some sections from 30 sec to 5 - 10 minutes on your normal rides.
Set a baseline with your normal ride pace.
Every week try to set a new PR on a couple of segments by just a few seconds;
By not doing max efforts to set PR's, a new PR is always attainable with just a little more effort.
Within 8 weeks or so you will have adapted to pushing yourself harder by small increments each week and you will have improved your fitness enough that you are faster.
You may find yourself challenged enough that you are willing to actually train on a more formal schedule or you can just do 15 - 25 minutes of Strava segments 2-3 times/week and the group ride.

laupsi
12-08-2015, 04:54 AM
Unter is smart enough not to live near me. But he's not all that far, either.

every time on that course I'd find myself cursing the dreaded Blue Knob climb. every year I'd find myself back doing it again!

steamer
12-08-2015, 07:10 AM
every time on that course I'd find myself cursing the dreaded Blue Knob climb. every year I'd find myself back doing it again!

It seems clear that there is a certain level of amnesia involved with this sport. Type II fun transforms into Type I given the passage of time.

unterhausen
12-08-2015, 09:38 AM
I'm pretty lucky, I live next to a state park with amazing dirt roads and lots of nice climbs. Having said that, they are covered in hunters right now, so it's not that great to ride out there. And soon they will get covered in snow until spring. For me to get to a decent hill means an hour of riding through town and back. There is one mountain near me, but the road is narrow, and the people driving on it are angry because they had to go visit dad at the prison. So just riding on it is asking to be part of somebody's road rage incident.

I suppose I need to increase the power on my intervals. I'm not going to race again, I don't have too many bounces left in my body. And so I'd be happy if I could go 21mph all day. In general though, when I climb a lot, my sprint gets better.

jmoore
12-08-2015, 09:49 AM
Get a coach. The embarrassment of reporting failure to another person may help you get over your aversion to pain. Strangely, it works for me.

this.

sandyrs
12-08-2015, 12:40 PM
I'm pretty lucky, I live next to a state park with amazing dirt roads and lots of nice climbs. Having said that, they are covered in hunters right now, so it's not that great to ride out there. And soon they will get covered in snow until spring. For me to get to a decent hill means an hour of riding through town and back. There is one mountain near me, but the road is narrow, and the people driving on it are angry because they had to go visit dad at the prison. So just riding on it is asking to be part of somebody's road rage incident.

I suppose I need to increase the power on my intervals. I'm not going to race again, I don't have too many bounces left in my body. And so I'd be happy if I could go 21mph all day. In general though, when I climb a lot, my sprint gets better.

Why are you doing intervals headed into winter, when you just said you won't be able to ride the nice roads around you due to snow? Why not focus on your base for now, and do the hard work when you'll actually be able to benefit from it?

Dead Man
12-08-2015, 01:30 PM
I didn't read the whole thread.. which I'm sure is already chock full of all the good advice the OP could ask for... but it sounds to me like this isn't your season for competitive cycling.

I can't ride hard unless I'm riding hard for something. That's why I love winter "pre season training." I have those first spring races to look forward to, knowing that I'm gonna be in WAY better shape (from killing myself... PAIN) than all those dudes who sat on their trainers all winter. Makes it worth it. Makes me love it.

If you don't have a list of things that motivate you.... what do you think any of us can do for you?

steamer
12-08-2015, 01:39 PM
Regarding scheduling: Rando season starts in earnest in late March in PA. The first 200K of the SR series is typically late March (3/19 as per http://www.parando.org/Schedule2016.html ).

And Unter may be putting the Fleche team back together again for 4/9.

So, that's prime time there starting in early April. In light of that, it seems to me that it's not premature to be doing intervals as early as late January or early February. Perhaps it's a little early now, and December and most of January should be spent getting in some base miles, and with the occasional threshold effort being a good thing in order to keep the body conditioned so that intervals, when the come, don't result in injury.

Motivation: I think that's what this thread is REALLY about. Doing something un-fun that is good for you (like intervals) is no problem when you have a goal that excites you.

I think the problem with Unter is that he is essentially chasing a goal that he has already achieved before several times. Need to find a way to make it new and fresh. After you have done multiple SR series and 1000Ks and PBP, and Fleches.... in the world of rando you've then done most of everything there is to do. You only can try to do more of it.

Not trying to change the subject from what Unter wanted to be, but perhaps a little group counseling is in order.

steamer
12-08-2015, 01:43 PM
I didn't read the whole thread.. which I'm sure is already chock full of all the good advice the OP could ask for... but it sounds to me like this isn't your season for competitive cycling.

I can't ride hard unless I'm riding hard for something. That's why I love winter "pre season training." I have those first spring races to look forward to, knowing that I'm gonna be in WAY better shape (from killing myself... PAIN) than all those dudes who sat on their trainers all winter. Makes it worth it. Makes me love it.

If you don't have a list of things that motivate you.... what do you think any of us can do for you?

This!!

bikingshearer
12-08-2015, 02:08 PM
when I was younger, I would do group rides, so I am familiar with the benefits. Now I'm too slow to keep up at all.

Find slower riding buddies. Problem solved.


I am really good at going slow uphill, and slow in general.

Same here. The record for going up Mt. Diablo here (roughly 3,500 ft in roughly 10 miles) is something like 47 minutes. My normal time is somewhere around 2.5 hours, stops included. I say, embrace the (lack of) speed.:beer:

professerr
12-08-2015, 03:36 PM
Sounds like OP has a mental thing going on and at 30 seconds his brain tricks him into wussing out. So I'll offer no advice on the actual training techniques. Like others, in my experience, nothing motivates me better than competition, or thoughts about competition. Pacelines with your equals are also great -- the drastic penalty for getting dropped is a huge motivator. But OP doesn't have access to that.

That all said for this sort of specific thing I might play little mind games with myself: at 10 seconds in, I'll ONLY think about 5 more seconds, not the whole 50 seconds left. 50 seconds can seem like forever, but 5, yeah I can do that. Or I'll look literally 15 feet up the road and only think about making it that far, over and over again. Maybe I'll allow in some nano-thought about how the pain is "good" pain that will make me stronger so more is better. As more time passes, if my brain starts to bypass the 5 second/15 foot tricks with bs thoughts about why I should give up, I think to myself "if I quit now then I've wasted all that pain and effort I just went through," or "what's another 5 more seconds of pain compared with the 40 I already went through." You know yourself well enough, so you can come up with your own brain hacks like these.

unterhausen
12-08-2015, 04:30 PM
I say, embrace the (lack of) speed.:beer:what happened to my speed is that 5 years ago, I got sick all spring. I still rode a full randonneur series, 200km,300km,400km, 600km. So I pushed the time limits on all of those rides. I found out that I enjoy going slow, and if anyone I was riding with started to go fast enough to make me uncomfortable, I would just let them go.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying yourself on a bike, and I think my previous refusal to go slow was bad. But it's also fun to go fast, so I'm going to try to get fast again. If you are fast, you can always go slow but not the other way around. As Steamer said, I think I'm lead time away from rides where I'll want to go faster than I am now.

My guess is that I'm not that atypical for a person my age, it's just that a lot of people don't feel like they can get fast again. I'm pretty sure I can.

thanks for the ideas. I like the Strava PR idea.

cnighbor1
12-08-2015, 05:36 PM
have a strong cub of coffee just before you leave. the caffeine will kick in fast and will get you riding faster

steelbikerider
12-08-2015, 10:19 PM
I came up with the Strava plan because I was in a similar situation. I even coach beginning racers but personally I had raced for a long time and was tired of training. I was getting older and slower so I needed something to get going again. Bought a power meter, joined strava and started losing weight. I'm still a long way from "back in the day" but I do have a couple of KOM's on lesser used routes and a few top 10's on busier routes without doing any structured intervals. Most important is that I'm enjoying riding harder and am getting faster .

Wayne77
12-09-2015, 01:36 AM
Indoor group computrainer sessions with a coach during the winter months. You. Will. Suffer. And there's nothing you can do about it unless you just stop pedaling (or hit the '-' button to lower your applied FTP...but if you do that everyone will know and you will be ridiculed) It has taken my team to a different level during the season.

Gummee
12-09-2015, 08:01 AM
Regarding scheduling: Rando season starts in earnest in late March in PA. The first 200K of the SR series is typically late March (3/19 as per http://www.parando.org/Schedule2016.html ).

And Unter may be putting the Fleche team back together again for 4/9.

So, that's prime time there starting in early April. In light of that, it seems to me that it's not premature to be doing intervals as early as late January or early February. Perhaps it's a little early now, and December and most of January should be spent getting in some base miles, and with the occasional threshold effort being a good thing in order to keep the body conditioned so that intervals, when the come, don't result in injury.

Motivation: I think that's what this thread is REALLY about. Doing something un-fun that is good for you (like intervals) is no problem when you have a goal that excites you.

I think the problem with Unter is that he is essentially chasing a goal that he has already achieved before several times. Need to find a way to make it new and fresh. After you have done multiple SR series and 1000Ks and PBP, and Fleches.... in the world of rando you've then done most of everything there is to do. You only can try to do more of it.

Not trying to change the subject from what Unter wanted to be, but perhaps a little group counseling is in order.
What's that old Chinese saying?

oh yeah: Eat bitter, taste sweet

'Training' sucks. Always has. Always will. Its not what most of us got into riding to do. ...but... as you eat the bitter of intervals, hill repeats, and sprints you'll get to taste the sweet of flying down the road easily later.

At least that's what I keep telling myself as I've got tunnel vision and the sweat's running into my eyes

M

pff
12-09-2015, 08:43 AM
At least that's what I keep telling myself as I've got tunnel vision and the sweat's running into my eyes

M

this is the point at which i remind myself that in a couple hours i'll be stuck at my desk at work wishing I could be back outside suffering