velotel
11-15-2015, 03:35 PM
Spent a week stateside, in Boulder, (Colorado if you don't know where Boulder is) to celebrate my son's birthday. He came over in April for mine so doing his seemed like a great idea. It was. Had five consecutive days of following him around. Boulder riding is amazing, not the Alps but wonderfully entertaining and diverse. But, if you want the best of Boulder, you've got to do the area's dirt roads and trails with a road bike. Outrageously good fun.
First two days I rode a Moots that Jim Potter of Vecchio's fame sent me out on. He knows I ride an Eriksen so figured a Vamoots would work well for me. Felt pretty much like my Eriksen except the Vamoots is a production bike and the fit wasn't exactly correct. Rode nicely anyway and I was happy on it. Did a combination of paved and dirt roads, maybe more brown than black. Set-up was Campy compact with a 36/50 instead of the 34/50 I use so more work on the steep hills. Boulder's got lots of those. A good riding bike though I didn't find it nearly as sharp in downhills as my Eriksen. Maybe the fit.
Then Mat, my son, said time for me to ride the Routt, Moots gravel bike. I said no need, the Vamoots was fine. I mean I have zero problem riding skinny tires on dirt and have never seen a need for disc brakes. The Routt had disc brakes. Also a Shimano drive train, Ultegra I think, compact, 36/50 but in back I think Jim said the big cog was a 28. Tires were 700x33 Clement MXP clinchers, complete with knobs! Mat said try it, you'll like it. So pulled my pedals off the Vamoots, put them on the Routt.
Next day was my son's big birthday ride. With lots of dirt. The dirt roads around Boulder are super smooth and fast so of course as we're heading out, me following a string of strong riders behind my son, I'm thinking these fat knobbies are going to be overkill and no doubt slow to add insult to injury. Naturally all Mat's buddies, except Jim of course who was there too, are looking at the bike I'm on and going on about how they'd really like to have one of those. Didn't take long to find out why.
The ride's magic, simple as that. Not the bike's, the tires? Don't get me wrong, the bike's terrific, the more I rode it, the more I enjoyed it. The fit was just about perfect unlike that of the Vamoots. The two bikes were both 58's but with some subtle changes in their geometries that made a difference. Like the Routt having half a degree slacker head angle, longer head tube, more rake, nothing dramatic, just subtle changes but just enough that my position on the Routt (that's the name of the county Steamboat is in) was spot-on whereas on the Vamoots I never found that dialed-in, one-with-the-bike feel. The Routt loved to be ridden with the hands in the drops. I probably spent 75% or more of my time there. I like riding in the drops so the Routt found a warm spot in my heart with that alone.
The disc brakes were okay too; they did exactly what I expect brakes to do, slow me down, stop the bike. The brakes on my Eriksen are Record. I like them. They always do everything I ask of them, they do it smoothly and easily, and I only use one finger on the levers. All that was also true of the disc brakes. They were as good as the Campy brakes, no question, but never produced one of those wow! moments. I got used to them quickly enough then pretty much didn't give them another thought. They did what they were supposed to do. That was enough. Actually we did spend some time on snow and ice-covered trails and I suspect the discs worked better than caliper brakes would have worked but I don't spend much time on snow and ice so any points they scored there weren't of great importance. And to be honest I'd really need to ride the brakes back to back to truly know the differences between them.
Can't say that I ever developed a warm feeling for the Ultegra drivetrain. Front derailler shifted quite well but the back always left me disappointed. Actually I think it was the shifter, not the derailler itself, that was the problem. I always felt like there was a disconnect between the lever and derailler's movement, lag time that was constantly annoying. With the Campy drivetrain I feel like my fingers are directly connected to the derailler. Move the lever and I can feel the derailler moving. That touch is so intimate that I can decide exactly how many cogs I want to move across. I like that. I also prefer Campy's one lever, one action concept though I must admit I started liking being able to brake and shift up a cog at the same time. But I hated not being able to shift down several cogs in one movement. That drove me nuts. I suppose that it's just a question of what we're used to because in fact the Ultegra drivetrain did everything I needed it to do. Just didn't do it in the style that I'm used to and like. This was the longest I've ever used Shimano so it was kind of interesting and in the end had no influence on my reaction to the Routt.
What totally made the bike were the tires! They transformed what riding a road bike can be all about. First time on the Routt we headed out of town on pavement, heading to the mountains. The tires knobs made this funny pattering noise but they definitely didn't feel any slower than my Paves for example. They probably are slower but the only way I could definitely say that's the case would be to ride the bike with the knobbies then go back and ride the same roads with skinny tires. Anyway all the way out of town I'm having a ball on these fat, pattering tires. Then Mat turns off and dives onto a single-track. A real single-track, dirt, tight, twisting and diving down the slope then across fields of grasses and brush. I'm in the drops, pressing the front down, the tires are biting and carving turns like they're on rails and I'm laughing like a kid just released from school. We hit a short climb, out of the saddle, put the power down, the back tire digging in, the bike shooting up the grade. Just friggin outrageous. Went like that all day. We rode everything, single-tracks, dirt roads (buffed of course and fast), rough-track with rocks and ledges and delicate line picking with snow and ice to keep things interesting, roads covered with a sort of red, small diameter gravel, and of course blacktop. The pavement was at the end, a fast plunge back to Boulder on a good road with lots of sweeping turns. This was the only place the tires lost their mojo. I dove into a hard sweeper to the right and the tires just kind of said, whoa, little too tight there buddy, we're going to just drift off to the outside instead. So then I went okay, that's how it is, just ride accordingly, let them do their lazy bit then press down and force them through and with that the rest of the plunge was good. Not great, but good.
Oh yea, forgot to mention I was running them soft, not sure how soft, just thumb pressing soft, and they sucked up bumps and cracks and sticks and stones like crazy. I mean I'm talking one smooth ride. So between their performance in the dirt and rocks and snow and their super smoothness everywhere, their lack of major carving power on blacktop in a plunge wasn't so much a fault as a condition. Then Mat wanted me to try out some fat Panaracers, don't know what model, 700x33 or something like that, maybe 32. They looked fatter than the Clements. Not knobby like the Clements, just subtle knobs in the center. Once I got the pressure right, they rode well. Again I don't know what pressure since I think I stopped three times early in the ride to let air out. Third time was the trick and from there on they were excellent. Did everything the Clements did except the pattering on pavement. But, and again this is based purely on a feeling with no follow-up by really comparing the tires, I think the Clements might have been a bit better than the Panaracers in places like a dodging back and forth single track. The Clements loved digging and carving through turns in the dirt.
So that's it for whatever it's worth, my take on a gravel bike, disc brakes, Ultegra, and fat road tires. I can think of all kinds of cool places for a bike like that, but without the disc brakes, those I just don't see. I've ridden some pretty crazy rock roads with my skinnier tires and had a blast but I can see now that I'd have even more fun, and ride way faster, with those fat road tires. I also don't see any need for fatter tires than the ones I rode. Fatter than that and it seems to me a person might as well just ride a full-on mountain bike. These fat road tires expand what we can ride with what remains a pure road bike, just one with more tire clearance and maybe a wee bit softer front end for the rough stuff, which is what that ever so slightly shallower head angle and rake difference do, soften the front end. I suppose there might be a wee bit of quickness lost but if there is, I didn't notice.
I had so much fun on that bike that I'm thinking I need to do what Kent's been telling me for a long time, have him build me a gravel bike (have to say I hate that name but that seems to be its official name so...), but without disc brakes. Which of course raises the problem of what brakes to use and what fork. Then again might not be a problem because that isn't going to happen in the immediate future which leaves time for other options for brakes (like the Campy direct mount brakes or whatever they're called that will apparently arrive in the near future) and a fork to come on-line. I suspect I'll also opt for a triple. Those Clement tires work so well that I can see them or something similar taking me onto some pretty steep, gnarly roads where low gearing will be needed. Definitely a bike for expanding one's riding horizon.
Like I said back at the beginning, the riding around Boulder is amazing, in fact good enough to even plan a trip there if you can get there by car instead of having to fly. It's not the Alps obviously but great fun with all the challenge you could hope for. You want steepness? Holy smokes Boulder has that in spades! But what really rings all the bells for Boulder is the dirt riding. My last ride with Mat covered around 80K, a huge loop out from Boulder then circling way to the east then north and finally back to town. We rode everything in that loop. Started out on the Boulder city bike paths, a phenomenal system of beautiful concrete paths linking all parts of town and never a road to cross. There's always an underpass or overpass. After that a mix of roads to out near Eldorado Springs where Mat led me onto a crazy fun single-track. Then some dirt roads then more trails as I recall. Finally arrived at a bridge over the autoroute between Boulder and Denver and on the far end of that, we took an elevator down to ground level. Perfect! I mean how often does one do a ride that includes one section in an elevator. Still have to laugh over that. And yea, we could have walked down the stairs with our bikes but one look at the elevator and I knew that's what I had to do.
Then we smoked a bunch of crazy fun dirt roads and double-tracks out east of town that included some steep climbs that had me working like a dog to get up. But fun climbs I should add, especially with the fat tires, which in that ride were the Panaracers. After that the sun was getting low so we pretty much high-balled back into town on roads, but only one section with traffic to speak of, until hitting the bike paths again. Just an outrageous ride.
So yea, if you're thinking of going to Boulder, do it, with bike in hand. Even better, with a fat tired road bike in hand. And if you don't have one, go see Jim at Vecchio's. Damned good rider too, he knows of what he talks. Cool shop too.
A few pics from the rides around there, including one that's a map showing all the rides Mat and I did. He's a Strava guy so all the rides are registered and mapped. Enjoy.
First two days I rode a Moots that Jim Potter of Vecchio's fame sent me out on. He knows I ride an Eriksen so figured a Vamoots would work well for me. Felt pretty much like my Eriksen except the Vamoots is a production bike and the fit wasn't exactly correct. Rode nicely anyway and I was happy on it. Did a combination of paved and dirt roads, maybe more brown than black. Set-up was Campy compact with a 36/50 instead of the 34/50 I use so more work on the steep hills. Boulder's got lots of those. A good riding bike though I didn't find it nearly as sharp in downhills as my Eriksen. Maybe the fit.
Then Mat, my son, said time for me to ride the Routt, Moots gravel bike. I said no need, the Vamoots was fine. I mean I have zero problem riding skinny tires on dirt and have never seen a need for disc brakes. The Routt had disc brakes. Also a Shimano drive train, Ultegra I think, compact, 36/50 but in back I think Jim said the big cog was a 28. Tires were 700x33 Clement MXP clinchers, complete with knobs! Mat said try it, you'll like it. So pulled my pedals off the Vamoots, put them on the Routt.
Next day was my son's big birthday ride. With lots of dirt. The dirt roads around Boulder are super smooth and fast so of course as we're heading out, me following a string of strong riders behind my son, I'm thinking these fat knobbies are going to be overkill and no doubt slow to add insult to injury. Naturally all Mat's buddies, except Jim of course who was there too, are looking at the bike I'm on and going on about how they'd really like to have one of those. Didn't take long to find out why.
The ride's magic, simple as that. Not the bike's, the tires? Don't get me wrong, the bike's terrific, the more I rode it, the more I enjoyed it. The fit was just about perfect unlike that of the Vamoots. The two bikes were both 58's but with some subtle changes in their geometries that made a difference. Like the Routt having half a degree slacker head angle, longer head tube, more rake, nothing dramatic, just subtle changes but just enough that my position on the Routt (that's the name of the county Steamboat is in) was spot-on whereas on the Vamoots I never found that dialed-in, one-with-the-bike feel. The Routt loved to be ridden with the hands in the drops. I probably spent 75% or more of my time there. I like riding in the drops so the Routt found a warm spot in my heart with that alone.
The disc brakes were okay too; they did exactly what I expect brakes to do, slow me down, stop the bike. The brakes on my Eriksen are Record. I like them. They always do everything I ask of them, they do it smoothly and easily, and I only use one finger on the levers. All that was also true of the disc brakes. They were as good as the Campy brakes, no question, but never produced one of those wow! moments. I got used to them quickly enough then pretty much didn't give them another thought. They did what they were supposed to do. That was enough. Actually we did spend some time on snow and ice-covered trails and I suspect the discs worked better than caliper brakes would have worked but I don't spend much time on snow and ice so any points they scored there weren't of great importance. And to be honest I'd really need to ride the brakes back to back to truly know the differences between them.
Can't say that I ever developed a warm feeling for the Ultegra drivetrain. Front derailler shifted quite well but the back always left me disappointed. Actually I think it was the shifter, not the derailler itself, that was the problem. I always felt like there was a disconnect between the lever and derailler's movement, lag time that was constantly annoying. With the Campy drivetrain I feel like my fingers are directly connected to the derailler. Move the lever and I can feel the derailler moving. That touch is so intimate that I can decide exactly how many cogs I want to move across. I like that. I also prefer Campy's one lever, one action concept though I must admit I started liking being able to brake and shift up a cog at the same time. But I hated not being able to shift down several cogs in one movement. That drove me nuts. I suppose that it's just a question of what we're used to because in fact the Ultegra drivetrain did everything I needed it to do. Just didn't do it in the style that I'm used to and like. This was the longest I've ever used Shimano so it was kind of interesting and in the end had no influence on my reaction to the Routt.
What totally made the bike were the tires! They transformed what riding a road bike can be all about. First time on the Routt we headed out of town on pavement, heading to the mountains. The tires knobs made this funny pattering noise but they definitely didn't feel any slower than my Paves for example. They probably are slower but the only way I could definitely say that's the case would be to ride the bike with the knobbies then go back and ride the same roads with skinny tires. Anyway all the way out of town I'm having a ball on these fat, pattering tires. Then Mat turns off and dives onto a single-track. A real single-track, dirt, tight, twisting and diving down the slope then across fields of grasses and brush. I'm in the drops, pressing the front down, the tires are biting and carving turns like they're on rails and I'm laughing like a kid just released from school. We hit a short climb, out of the saddle, put the power down, the back tire digging in, the bike shooting up the grade. Just friggin outrageous. Went like that all day. We rode everything, single-tracks, dirt roads (buffed of course and fast), rough-track with rocks and ledges and delicate line picking with snow and ice to keep things interesting, roads covered with a sort of red, small diameter gravel, and of course blacktop. The pavement was at the end, a fast plunge back to Boulder on a good road with lots of sweeping turns. This was the only place the tires lost their mojo. I dove into a hard sweeper to the right and the tires just kind of said, whoa, little too tight there buddy, we're going to just drift off to the outside instead. So then I went okay, that's how it is, just ride accordingly, let them do their lazy bit then press down and force them through and with that the rest of the plunge was good. Not great, but good.
Oh yea, forgot to mention I was running them soft, not sure how soft, just thumb pressing soft, and they sucked up bumps and cracks and sticks and stones like crazy. I mean I'm talking one smooth ride. So between their performance in the dirt and rocks and snow and their super smoothness everywhere, their lack of major carving power on blacktop in a plunge wasn't so much a fault as a condition. Then Mat wanted me to try out some fat Panaracers, don't know what model, 700x33 or something like that, maybe 32. They looked fatter than the Clements. Not knobby like the Clements, just subtle knobs in the center. Once I got the pressure right, they rode well. Again I don't know what pressure since I think I stopped three times early in the ride to let air out. Third time was the trick and from there on they were excellent. Did everything the Clements did except the pattering on pavement. But, and again this is based purely on a feeling with no follow-up by really comparing the tires, I think the Clements might have been a bit better than the Panaracers in places like a dodging back and forth single track. The Clements loved digging and carving through turns in the dirt.
So that's it for whatever it's worth, my take on a gravel bike, disc brakes, Ultegra, and fat road tires. I can think of all kinds of cool places for a bike like that, but without the disc brakes, those I just don't see. I've ridden some pretty crazy rock roads with my skinnier tires and had a blast but I can see now that I'd have even more fun, and ride way faster, with those fat road tires. I also don't see any need for fatter tires than the ones I rode. Fatter than that and it seems to me a person might as well just ride a full-on mountain bike. These fat road tires expand what we can ride with what remains a pure road bike, just one with more tire clearance and maybe a wee bit softer front end for the rough stuff, which is what that ever so slightly shallower head angle and rake difference do, soften the front end. I suppose there might be a wee bit of quickness lost but if there is, I didn't notice.
I had so much fun on that bike that I'm thinking I need to do what Kent's been telling me for a long time, have him build me a gravel bike (have to say I hate that name but that seems to be its official name so...), but without disc brakes. Which of course raises the problem of what brakes to use and what fork. Then again might not be a problem because that isn't going to happen in the immediate future which leaves time for other options for brakes (like the Campy direct mount brakes or whatever they're called that will apparently arrive in the near future) and a fork to come on-line. I suspect I'll also opt for a triple. Those Clement tires work so well that I can see them or something similar taking me onto some pretty steep, gnarly roads where low gearing will be needed. Definitely a bike for expanding one's riding horizon.
Like I said back at the beginning, the riding around Boulder is amazing, in fact good enough to even plan a trip there if you can get there by car instead of having to fly. It's not the Alps obviously but great fun with all the challenge you could hope for. You want steepness? Holy smokes Boulder has that in spades! But what really rings all the bells for Boulder is the dirt riding. My last ride with Mat covered around 80K, a huge loop out from Boulder then circling way to the east then north and finally back to town. We rode everything in that loop. Started out on the Boulder city bike paths, a phenomenal system of beautiful concrete paths linking all parts of town and never a road to cross. There's always an underpass or overpass. After that a mix of roads to out near Eldorado Springs where Mat led me onto a crazy fun single-track. Then some dirt roads then more trails as I recall. Finally arrived at a bridge over the autoroute between Boulder and Denver and on the far end of that, we took an elevator down to ground level. Perfect! I mean how often does one do a ride that includes one section in an elevator. Still have to laugh over that. And yea, we could have walked down the stairs with our bikes but one look at the elevator and I knew that's what I had to do.
Then we smoked a bunch of crazy fun dirt roads and double-tracks out east of town that included some steep climbs that had me working like a dog to get up. But fun climbs I should add, especially with the fat tires, which in that ride were the Panaracers. After that the sun was getting low so we pretty much high-balled back into town on roads, but only one section with traffic to speak of, until hitting the bike paths again. Just an outrageous ride.
So yea, if you're thinking of going to Boulder, do it, with bike in hand. Even better, with a fat tired road bike in hand. And if you don't have one, go see Jim at Vecchio's. Damned good rider too, he knows of what he talks. Cool shop too.
A few pics from the rides around there, including one that's a map showing all the rides Mat and I did. He's a Strava guy so all the rides are registered and mapped. Enjoy.