No Entry: Problems Clicking In With Look Keo Max Carbons

[Avincent52]

Long story short, I bought a set of clean used Look Keo Max 2 Carbon pedals with a set of new gray "medium" float cleats.

I've had them for two months and I've been having a surprising trouble adjusting to them, considering it was like second nature using the old red Look Carbons on my old Serotta.

But with the Keo Maxes, I'm probably averaging one for three getting them in the first try, and I often end up trying to clip in on the "back" side of the pedal.
If anything, the problem has gotten worse as I've moved the cleats back a bit as I dial in the adjustment.

Is anyone else having/had similar problems with the Looks? I did notice that the pedals tend to hang pointing at around "11 o'clock" whereas the old pedals had tighter bearings that hovered more like "1 o'clock."

Tricks about getting into these easily?
Or should I be thinking about Keo Blades or Speedplays?
Or Campy Superleggera with Alfredo Bindas?

Thanks in advance, as always.


http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6124/6026225314_9a23fcbab7_b.jpg

[tiretrax]

It will be easier if you don't use toe clips, too.

On occasion, I have problems getting the front part of the cleat to engage - it's usually been due to wear on the front of the cleat.

[ultraman6970]

WOW campy pedals, binda and EM shoes... my set up back in the day.

[carpediemracing]

Missing the toe strap buttons. And move your shoe back a few mm or put some washers behind the toe clips so the clips don't damage the shoe.

For the Keo problem are you over-tightening the cleats? If your shoes have a curved sole where the cleats mount and you tighten the cleats so they are "snug" then the cleats may curve to follow the sole. This has the effect of making the center area of the cleat "raised" (meaning it's a bump from the pedal's point of view), making it extremely difficult to clip in. This happened to me. I went a bit looser with the cleat bolts and it seems to have worked out. I think I got the Keos in 2007? Been on the current Keo Max Carbon pedals since 2009 maybe.

[Hank Scorpio]

How do the Keos hang when you aren't clipped in? Any resistance in the bearings?

[soulspinner]

Alfredo Binda. Memories...:beer:

[smontanaro]

On occasion, I have problems getting the front part of the cleat to engage - it's usually been due to wear on the front of the cleat.

I use Look KeO pedals (classic or KeO 2 Max) on almost all my bikes. That's my observation as well. Though, if you have other KeOs you are having no trouble with, perhaps it's something different about your new pedals' shape which is giving your existing muscle memory/technique problems.

Do you commute with clipless pedals? In my experience, that's the best way to get really proficient clipping in (as in, never looking down - your foot knows what to do all by itself), 'cuz you do so dang much of it and don't want to piss off the cagers in line behind you at the light. Some days, 20 or more times (often fixed gear), vs five or so on a road ride.

[Avincent52]

How do the Keos hang when you aren't clipped in? Any resistance in the bearings?

The pedals hang with the "toes" pointing to about 11 o' clock.
The bearings spin freely, and this is in contrast to my (very) old Look Carbons where the bearings were tight but the "toe" of the pedals tend to rest around 1 o'clock.

On occasion, I have problems getting the front part of the cleat to engage - it's usually been due to wear on the front of the cleat.

The cleats were brand new, and I guess I've used them a total of 25 times since, with not much walking on them.

I'll look to see if they're "overtightened."

Maybe I need to make this my trainer project this winter. Or just go back to the Bindas.
It's really embarrassing, fumbling to get my foot in. I haven't felt like this since I was in eighth grade.

[oldpotatoe]

Since ya mentioned Speedplay..I have used LOOK, Campag/Look, Campagnolo ProFits...when I was insane and had a fixie, wanted a pedal easier to get into. Traded ProFits for SP Zero...that was 10 years ago..have had SP Zero on all my bikes since.

-Easy, 2 sided, 'step onna bug' entry
-Adjustable float in either direction
-Most adjustable cleat in terms of left-right, fore-aft
-Maintainable-try to find bearings for a LOOK pedal
-If ya kill one pedal, can buy one pedal
-Shouldn't walk on any road pedal but at least SP you are on a metal plate
-Never had an issue with dirt and ease of in and out

BIG fan, if your issue is getting in, might try 'em. Chrom-Moly spindled one identical to stainless spindle one, 'off shore' pedal spindle is all.

[smontanaro]

Some days, 20 or more times (often fixed gear), vs five or so on a road ride.

Twenty was just a wild-ass guess, so I counted on the way to work this morning. I unclipped eleven times, so round trip will be in the twenty or so ballpark...

Regarding the comment by @oldpotatoe about SP pedals, my big beef is not that there's anything wrong with them, it's just that I've been using Looks for so long, and have them on so many bikes that the cost to convert would be prohibitive. :( Regardless what you "prefer", there is a fair amount of vendor lock-in once you've made a commitment to any given brand.

I've actually been slowly moving back in the Eroica direction, and have acquired various quill pedals. I have a half dozen sets now, none Campy, oddly enough. My newest bike is an '84 Trek, so there's no fear that I will look weird riding with toe clips on a Madone or anything. :)

[Avincent52]

Thanks for the suggestion, OP.

And Montanaro, while I don't bike-commute--I work at home--my rides do include a fair amount of starting and stopping, probably 15 or so a ride give or take.

Maybe what I need to do is head to a parking lot where I can actually look at my feet while I'm clipping in. Right now, I'm more concerned about not cow-tipping when I don't clip in the first go-round.

I've only got one road bike and one pair of shoes, so it wouldn't be a big deal to switch to Speedplay or something else.

I went with the Looks because that's what I rode easily and happily on my Serotta.

I"m thinking I may try to find a set of Campy Superleggeras for the Serotta, but that's more for show than go.

[AngryScientist]

if you want to borrow a set of speedplay zero's with the option to buy let me know. i have several sets. i switched to shimano spd-sl's long ago and never looked back, but you might like them...

[johnmdesigner]

I don't know if this will help but I own earlier versions of the Keo in addition to the Max.
I have found that the Max spin up more when the crank is rotated then the older versions. This is especially frustrating if re-clipping on an incline as it may take me 2 or 3 times to grab the front of the pedal with the cleat.
I don't know if there is a way to adjust the resistance of the bearings on these. I did find this very annoying and replaced the Max with the older version KEO. Clip in first time every time.

[Joxster]

Are you 100% sure that you have the correct cleats with the pedals?

I also agree with the Speedplay option, I've been using them since 2002 after having some knee niggles and haven't looked back. I use then on them road and track.

[Avincent52]

Yes, I'm 100 percent sure I've got the right cleats.
It's not that they don't clip in at all, or they pre-release or won't release at all.
I think it's about the their tendency to rotate past "vertical" (12 o'clock) as I'm trying to clip in.

Thoughts about the Shimanos?
It seems weird putting them on an all-Campy bike, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

[Ralph]

I use same pedals and cleats. No issues at all. Stick toe in, push heal down, and I'm clicked in. Every time.

I have noticed if I don't have cleats going straight ahead, I can have the issue you describe. My natural "gait' is left foot pointed straight ahead, and right foot slightly toed out, but right foot is not toed out enough to mess up cleat engagement.

[carpediemracing]

Thoughts about the Shimanos?
It seems weird putting them on an all-Campy bike, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

The pedals won't fit. The Shimano spindle isn't Campy compatible. :)

Actually a friend of mine had Shimano clipless for a while with Campy. Bike industry guy, he just wants stuff that works and is no longer something he thinks about. His Shimano pedals are one of those things.

[oldpotatoe]

Yes, I'm 100 percent sure I've got the right cleats.
It's not that they don't clip in at all, or they pre-release or won't release at all.
I think it's about the their tendency to rotate past "vertical" (12 o'clock) as I'm trying to clip in.

Thoughts about the Shimanos?
It seems weird putting them on an all-Campy bike, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Smallish shoe? If the cleats bend a fair amount to match a increased ARC of a small shoe, getting in and out can be an issue. Seen it a fair amount with woman's shoes(smaller, not calling you a woman/nancy).

[Avincent52]

Smallish shoe? If the cleats bend a fair amount to match a increased ARC of a small shoe, getting in and out can be an issue. Seen it a fair amount with woman's shoes(smaller, not calling you a woman/nancy).

Just to make it clear, not having any release problems. Once I've clipped in I stay in, and have no problem releasing.

My shoes are a size 9 and while I can see a little bit of "bowing" on the sole, it's not really extreme and doesn't seem like it's the culprit.

I did put the bike on the trainer, and the problem, I think, is how the pedals hang.

[ColnagoFan]

Just to make it clear, not having any release problems. Once I've clipped in I stay in, and have no problem releasing.

My shoes are a size 9 and while I can see a little bit of "bowing" on the sole, it's not really extreme and doesn't seem like it's the culprit.

I did put the bike on the trainer, and the problem, I think, is how the pedals hang.

I recently upgraded to some Blades after years of standard Keo pedals, and I've noticed this as well. It seems like the pedals don't hang at the same position they used to that made clipping in so easy. I chalked it up to me getting used to new pedals, but your post has me thinking maybe it's not just me. I mean, maybe it is, but maybe not?

[alexstar]

I had this issue when I first switched to Keos from Deltas. I figured out that I just had to slow down a bit when flipping the pedal over with my toe. It took some retraining of the muscle memory but I got it down after a bit. The Keo does seem to hang differently from the Delta.

[Tin Turtle]

Those were the pedals that finally drove me to flats on everything. Best thing I ever did.