Grand Fondo Doping

[guido]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/gran-fondo-new-york-winner-stripped-of-title-for-doping_388383

[MattTuck]

It is a sad world we live in.

[AngryScientist]

(1) why is there a "winner" of a gran fondo anyway?

(2) why even drug test at a gran fondo ?

[GregL]

It's the same old song... Or in the words of the late, great Yogi Berra, "It's deja vu all over again!"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/sports/cycling/doping-in-cycling-reaches-into-amateur-ranks.html?_r=0

- Greg

[MattTuck]

(1) why is there a "winner" of a gran fondo anyway?

(2) why even drug test at a gran fondo ?

From the article:
滴owever, it痴 without a doubt more important for us to do what we can to make our race fair, of which doping controls are an integral part. Simply looking away and not testing the athletes is the worst decision that a race director can make because it forces everyone to take drugs to try to level the playing field.
Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/gran-fondo-new-york-winner-stripped-of-title-for-doping_388383#BFoySUC4YLIk5G5x.99

So, to answer your second question Nick, it seems the reason is because if you didn't, the whole field would be doping in a game of keep up with the Jones's.

[dancinkozmo]

...proof that its possible to simultaneously be a winner and a loser.

[I Want Sachs?]

Gran Fondo to me means experience of the ride, much like a century. Making it competition seems counter-intuitive. With that said, I suppose the organizers have a right to make it a race. For me, that ends my desire to participate.

[guido]

Really makes going for a ride by your self seem like a nice idea...

[benb]

If they get rid of the timer and don't post times and don't declare a winner I don't see how they would need to do drug testing or worry about participants doping. And even if they did dope who would care since no one is likely to know how fast anyone went? They could make the prizes be a random drawing if they felt a need to hand out bling to make the event more high profile.

Just make it like normal centuries where there isn't even a set start time and it's just a window. No one gets prizes and everyone can feel good about themselves.

Is this even a Gran Fondo when they are calling it a race and timing everyone? It seems like it's just turning into a big dangerous unsanctioned race.

[sandyrs]

If they get rid of the timer and don't post times and don't declare a winner I don't see how they would need to do drug testing or worry about participants doping. And even if they did dope who would care since no one is likely to know how fast anyone went? They could make the prizes be a random drawing if they felt a need to hand out bling to make the event more high profile.

Just make it like normal centuries where there isn't even a set start time and it's just a window. No one gets prizes and everyone can feel good about themselves.

Is this even a Gran Fondo when they are calling it a race and timing everyone? It seems like it's just turning into a big dangerous unsanctioned race.

Strictly speaking, a Gran Fondo is by definition a race. American "Fondos" with no aspect of racing are misusing the term, which has become shorthand for long, organized group ride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Fondo

[charliedid]

I'm outraged.

[I Want Sachs?]

Strictly speaking, a Gran Fondo is by definition a race. American "Fondos" with no aspect of racing are misusing the term, which has become shorthand for long, organized group ride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Fondo

I did not know it was meant to be a race. That makes it clear.

Thank you!

[Tony T]

(1) why is there a "winner" of a gran fondo anyway?
(2) why even drug test at a gran fondo ?

It would only be a century w/o a winner. (and riders can still participate in a Fondo just for fun, just like a century)
Drug testing is good idea, the doper was caught.

Looks like the system worked in this case.

[djg21]

https://gfny.com/gfny15-winner-was-doping/

[54ny77]

Is it illegal to dope while participating in a fondue?

[CunegoFan]

without a doubt more important for us to do what we can to make our race fair, of which doping controls are an integral part. Simply looking away and not testing the athletes is the worst decision that a race director can make because it forces everyone to take drugs to try to level the playing field.

No way! Riders dope because everyone else is doping? I thought they dope because Lance Armstrong "forced" them to.

[Tony T]

Is it illegal to dope while participating in a fondue?

Not illegal, and may be necessary.

http://www.organicvalley.coop/fileadmin/img/recipes/fondue_540.jpg

[earlfoss]

Dirty Colombians! Well, dirty for doing it, and stupid for getting caught.

I highly doubt the testing here was 100% random.

[djg21]

(1) why is there a "winner" of a gran fondo anyway?

(2) why even drug test at a gran fondo ?

My understanding is that there are often pretty substantial prize lists for the first finishers. So the majority of riders do it like a supported group ride, while a group competes for the prize list.

Here is the prize list for the GFNY.

https://gfny.com/race/competition-and-raffle-prizes/

First prize is a bike that has to be worth a few thousand dollars at least. This is more than I've ever seen at any race I've ever entered as a recreational rider.

[shovelhd]

Bingo. The other aspect is that the UCI Masters World Championships qualifying is done by a grand fondo series.

[berserk87]

Next there will be people doping for RAGBRAI, or the Hilly 100.

[Shortsocks]

Next there will be people doping for RAGBRAI, or the Hilly 100.

I promise you I've smelled tons of "Dope" at RAGBRAI , unless that was some corn that was over cooked. :cool:

[saab2000]

I'm outraged.

Post of the day!

[I Want Sachs?]

Is it illegal to dope while participating in a fondue?

I sometimes dope with little blue pill when I participate in a fondle!;)

[LJohnny]

Quite a good write up about doping in Colombia:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/10/death-threats-doping-and-disillusion-the-troubling-state-of-cycling-in-colombia/

[p nut]

Oh, to be stripped of the coveted title---Champion of the 5th annual gran fondo of upper east side region of NY.

[Drmojo]

I did that one--kept saying fondue to everyone who would listen--better yet--"Gran Fonda----which would be Henry Fonda, natch
Medio Fonda would be Jane or Peter Fonda
Piccolo Fonda is Bridget

I like centuries--often benefitting worthy causes
If you want to race, race

I did that, too.
Now I prefer brevets--much better camaraderie:crap:

[Hank Scorpio]

Is it illegal to dope while participating in a fondue?

Can you get a TUE for Lipitor?

[gemship]

Post of the day!

To think the applications to other threads of such a posted response are endless.

[Cicli]

I am going to start doping to read these kinds of threads.

[ultraman6970]

It depends, if you get there smoked or on crack pretty much how ever is in that fondue will complain ;P

[shovelhd]

Quite a good write up about doping in Colombia:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/10/death-threats-doping-and-disillusion-the-troubling-state-of-cycling-in-colombia/

From the comments:

I live in Colombia and the sheer use of drugs is astounding. It's not even just top racers, or even racers - but a quick look through strava and you can start to see what's going on. It's absolutely insane.

I rode with one of the top pros in Colombia one day and within ten minutes he has inquired about my "recovery" and offered me help if I so desired. TEN MINUTES!

[weisan]

You wanna know why some folks would dope in a relatively small race like this?

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The same reason why some folks would camp outside Walmart the night before Black Friday... :D



http://cdn.meme.am/instances/61088487.jpg

[I Want Sachs?]

I am going to start RITALIN doping to read these kinds of threads.

Modified!

[fiamme red]

It also happened three years ago: http://www.bikeradar.com/us/news/article/two-amateurs-test-positive-for-epo-at-gran-fondo-new-york-34711/

[txcid05]

So.....is he having to give back the prize bike? :p. I'd be more disappointed than that if I were him. Haha. Not to mention, rides such as these are getting damn expensive to participate in, it's no wonder people want to win 'em. Too expensive to loose!

[oldpotatoe]

Gran Fondo to me means experience of the ride, much like a century. Making it competition seems counter-intuitive. With that said, I suppose the organizers have a right to make it a race. For me, that ends my desire to participate.

What it is is a bicycle version of any of a number of running races held all over the place. Timed, closed courses, numbers, winners BUT if you are part of the 'herd'(like I was when I ran), you can still do this 'race'. NOT 'fun run', but a genuine race, even if you did finish an hour after the winner. Same with trigeekery, with age groups, etc.

[shovelhd]

What it is is a bicycle version of any of a number of running races held all over the place. Timed, closed courses, numbers, winners BUT if you are part of the 'herd'(like I was when I ran), you can still do this 'race'. NOT 'fun run', but a genuine race, even if you did finish an hour after the winner. Same with trigeekery, with age groups, etc.

It's what's known as a participation race. Everyone gets a medal, or a jersey in some cases. This is where bicycle road racing is headed unless significant change occurs.

[holliscx]

Tovar's my early favorite for the Five Borough Bike Tour

[oldpotatoe]

It's what's known as a participation race. Everyone gets a medal, or a jersey in some cases. This is where bicycle road racing is headed unless significant change occurs.

I agree and don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. A lot like 'racing in Europe..Pro-Am..go race, and then be catagorized according to your status and age.

There are still 'pro' races, that don't include the Cat 4/5 field but the 'structure' of racing in the US is what keeps me out of it. That and most are 3 corner, industrial park crits on Sunday..45 minutes plus a lap type crappola.

[ultraman6970]

Potato, the problem is that to organize a real road race you have to have the cooperation of a lot of people outside of cycling and between you and me is a lot easier to get permits to use those industrial parks than go to the road like from one city to another one.

The other problem depending of the state (in my opinion the big problem of the US) is that there's no other roads that major highways sometimes, and authorities wont give authorization for a race in those roads at all and secondary roads many times are basically pivot roads in some counties and if you cut them for a couple of hours because of a race would not surprise me that will bring more hate against cyclists.

BTW always thought those gran fondo events were not officially a race.

[djg21]

It's what's known as a participation race. Everyone gets a medal, or a jersey in some cases. This is where bicycle road racing is headed unless significant change occurs.

I think it's too late. Bicycle racing is in its death throws. Promoters can't make money sufficient to justify the effort and expense. We've already discussed this in the thread about Battenkill becoming an unsanctioned event and going grand fondo, so I won't rehash.

I had a discussion last evening with an industry person who distinguished races from gran fondos as follows: everyone who crosses the finish line in a gran fondo has a smile on their face and a sense of accomplishment, irrespective of how long it takes for them to finish.

These are participation events like marathons or triathlon. This is where the sport is going.

[PaMtbRider]

Best fondo I know of is this local, low key, Grand Fondue.
https://bikedoctorfrederick.wordpress.com/
Up to a 100 mile ride on mainly dirt roads. $30 entry and a big Fondue pot at the finish.

[CunegoFan]

It's what's known as a participation race. Everyone gets a medal, or a jersey in some cases. This is where bicycle road racing is headed unless significant change occurs.

GFNY has 6000 riders and costs $260. That is an opportunity for the organizers to make real money. There is no way traditional racing can match that.

[bcroslin]

Tovar's my early favorite for the Five Borough Bike Tour

My money's on the stout woman from the Bronx on a hybrid :)

[campy man]

GFNY has 6000 riders and costs $260. That is an opportunity for the organizers to make real money. There is no way traditional racing can match that.

Excuse my ignorance but 6K people are paying $260 to ride GFNY? Did you mean $26 or $260?

[bobswire]

Excuse my ignorance but 6K people are paying $260 to ride GFNY? Did you mean $26 or $260?

That's $260 not counting the PEDS. :)

[sandyrs]

Excuse my ignorance but 6K people are paying $260 to ride GFNY? Did you mean $26 or $260?

He did not mean $26.

[Nooch]

Excuse my ignorance but 6K people are paying $260 to ride GFNY? Did you mean $26 or $260?

But you get a free jersey to wear during the event!

[echappist]

Excuse my ignorance but 6K people are paying $260 to ride GFNY? Did you mean $26 or $260?

here's what so ridiculous about GFNY or any of the other Gran Fondos in the U.S. Over in Italy, you get to do a race in the Dolomites for 50-60 Eur; over here, you get to race on roads on which that any decent NYC cyclist would have traveled, save for the start on the vehicular lanes of the GWB.

But you get a free jersey to wear during the event!

and don't forget the bibs as well ;)

[campy man]

That's $260 not counting the PEDS. :)

Not sure what's worse ... doping for a Grand Fondo or paying $260 for GFNY :crap:

[54ny77]

For the GFNY, are all the roads shut down entirely for the day, i.e., car-free?

[redir]

A Grand Fredo is not even a race, what a looser.

[djg21]

For the GFNY, are all the roads shut down entirely for the day, i.e., car-free?

No. Some are closed, but the majority are not. https://gfny.com/faq/

[echappist]

A Grand Fredo is not even a race, what a looser.

in all fairness, they are real races in Europe, and at least some of the ones in the U.S. are actual competitions

[Tickdoc]

I call my gran fondos "training rides".

[BobbyJones]

Jumping in here with some thoughts...

1) A Gran Fondo is much like the cycling equivalent of a running marathon. competitive up front, fun in the back. I think here in the US its gotten a little convoluted, with some "century" rides appropriating the name.

2) In the case of GFNY in particular, although the roads are not technically closed, if you're up front, you'll be stopping for lights rarely if at all thanks to the paid permits to use the roads and police provided which.....

3)....costs GFNY around $400k, whether 60 people register or 6000. That's where a chunk of your $260 goes. (BTW- check the finish count for actual participant count and do the math). A big gamble for the organizers. Let's not forget the year round work and staff that goes into an event like this. Or should they work for free? If you want to put things in perspective, what's it cost all in to take a family of four to the movies for an hour and half? Or a few hours out on a date here in NYC? A concert? Is 260 bucks for a fast paced day of fun on your bike with a few thousand others (if thats your thing) so ridiculous?

4) Although the thought is that its not a REAL race, if you're up front it'll feel like one. With the prizes given for finishing in the money, you'll see that it's a higher value payout than most "real" races in the US.

5) So far, it looks like GFNY has done more to call out dopers and takes it more seriously than other "real" cycling organizations.

6) If you've followed any other press on GFNY besides the doping articles, you'll see that an ambition of the organizers is to get full road closures worked out along with community buy in to host a "real" pro race rolled into the same day. That, my friends would be an awesome coup for cycling fans in the NYC area.

As a NYC resident, its been quite a thrill to see the growth of GFNY into a world-class event. I can only hope it continues on the same path.

[54ny77]

Ditto to all you've said. To get something even remotely like this done in NYC and the surrounding metro area is moving mountains that many can't possibly contemplate. I've ridden the route (or most of it) a bazillion times, but to do it under the GFNY umbrella amidst the crowds would be special. Wanted to do it this year but was traveling, and I'm hoping to do it next year.

The cost is the cost. Don't like it? Don't do it, and ride (most of) the route for free. It's quite simple.

Jumping in here with some thoughts...

1) A Gran Fondo is much like the cycling equivalent of a running marathon. competitive up front, fun in the back. I think here in the US its gotten a little convoluted, with some "century" rides appropriating the name.

2) In the case of GFNY in particular, although the roads are not technically closed, if you're up front, you'll be stopping for lights rarely if at all thanks to the paid permits to use the roads and police provided which.....

3)....costs GFNY around $400k, whether 60 people register or 6000. That's where a chunk of your $260 goes. (BTW- check the finish count for actual participant count and do the math). A big gamble for the organizers. Let's not forget the year round work and staff that goes into an event like this. Or should they work for free? If you want to put things in perspective, what's it cost all in to take a family of four to the movies for an hour and half? Or a few hours out on a date here in NYC? A concert? Is 260 bucks for a fast paced day of fun on your bike with a few thousand others (if thats your thing) so ridiculous?

4) Although the thought is that its not a REAL race, if you're up front it'll feel like one. With the prizes given for finishing in the money, you'll see that it's a higher value payout than most "real" races in the US.

5) So far, it looks like GFNY has done more to call out dopers and takes it more seriously than other "real" cycling organizations.

6) If you've followed any other press on GFNY besides the doping articles, you'll see that an ambition of the organizers is to get full road closures worked out along with community buy in to host a "real" pro race rolled into the same day. That, my friends would be an awesome coup for cycling fans in the NYC area.

As a NYC resident, its been quite a thrill to see the growth of GFNY into a world-class event. I can only hope it continues on the same path.

[CunegoFan]

Excuse my ignorance but 6K people are paying $260 to ride GFNY? Did you mean $26 or $260?


$260. I don't see why gran fondos cannot become as successful as Ironman triathlons. Those cost ~$700 plus lock you into paying for at least three days of hotel stay, and they all sell out. Tris are much more complicated and costly to set up than a pure cycling event and have a limit of roughly 3000 participants because of swim safety and bike drafting issues.

At some point there may be the cycling equivalent of the WTC.

[earlfoss]

5) So far, it looks like GFNY has done more to call out dopers and takes it more seriously than other "real" cycling organizations..

I totally agree here. Testing at ToAD (a large USAC race series) in WI was nonexistent despite having a very large Colombian contingent there for the duration of the event. With the problems happening around doping in that country you would think that USADA would want to keep their problems from becoming our problems. If you were there this year, you might also think there were a few of them that might return a positive test.

[redir]

Do teams race Grand Fondo's?

I can't even imagine showing up to a start line with that many people.