Need recommendation for a "short" 700x25

[pdmtong]

I don't have a myriad of wheels and tires to try so would welcome forum input.

bike has a ouzo pro with a 10sp era record skeleton mounted.

HED Belgium C2 with open pave (green center stripe) 700x24 fits.
Bora One with conti 4000S II 700x25 hits the bottom of the brake.

Campagnolo USA says all dual pivot skeletons have same design and "arch clearance [my words]" so changing to a 11sp era skeleton would not give me more vertical clearance.

The ouzo pro bolt hole location is probably the issue but since I am not going to change the painted to match fork, what other 700x25 have folks found to be smaller/shorter than the conti 4000S II?

[Cicli]

Veloflex. Plus they ride alot better than any Conti.

[thirdgenbird]

You can switch to the pre skeleton 10spd calipers.

[Ralph]

I have used some Michelin Pro Race 700X23's that were almost as large as most 700X25's. At least they were/are larger than Continental 700X23's.

So in my view.....my Michelin 700X23 is like a "short" 700X25.

[DfCas]

I use Shimano brakes for this reason, plus I get a quick release. Otherwise, I use Campy as much as I can.

[donevwil]

Pretty much any 25 will be shorter (and narrower) than a 4000s II, likely the biggest common 25 out there. A 25 Conti GP4 season, for example, will be a good 2mm shorter in my experience. I inherited a set of 25 GP4000 IIs from a friend who experienced the same issue as you on an Enve 2.0.

[beeatnik]

I

Campagnolo USA says all dual pivot skeletons have same design and "arch clearance [my words]" so changing to a 11sp era skeleton would not give me more vertical clearance.



That would be the case for the current Super Record and Record Skeleton brakes which have not changed since 10s Skeleton Brakes were introduced. However, the 2015 Chorus and 2015 "Skeleton" Brakes (which replace Athena Skeleton) are a new design and will allow you to run any tire which clears your fork or rear brake bridge. Check it out:

2015 on the bike, 2009-2014 Chorus, uninstalled
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/15763259483_d40c719585_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8623/15760822364_03fc0f9a0d_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7445/16195861530_7e1bd7a79e_b.jpg

Best of all they dropped the prices on both brakes.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7483/16050609922_602bac4bd5_b.jpg

[jischr]

I have the same issue with Colnago Flash and Start forks and rear brake bridge, no room on top with Pro4 25's. Veloflex 25's on one and Pro4 23's on the other work well and appear to have the same profile.

[thwart]

Veloflex. Plus they ride alot better than any Conti.
This.

Some don't like that Veloflex's 25 mm tires actually have a profile more consistent with a 24 mm (or even a generous 23 mm) tire. But the ride belies the small profile. :banana:

[Ken Robb]

I have used some Michelin Pro Race 700X23's that were almost as large as most 700X25's. At least they were/are larger than Continental 700X23's.

So in my view.....my Michelin 700X23 is like a "short" 700X25.

I was thinking this myself. Michelins tend to be rounder/fatter than other tires of the same nominal size. OTOH Paselas tend to be taller/narrower in their 700x25 or 700x28 sizes.

[lhuerta]

Pretty much any 25 will be shorter (and narrower) than a 4000s II, likely the biggest common 25 out there..

+100 ... an important and well know fact

[bironi]

This.

Some don't like that Veloflex's 25 mm tires actually have a profile more consistent with a 24 mm (or even a generous 23 mm) tire. But the ride belies the small profile. :banana:

My experience supports this assessment as well.

[bironi]

That would be the case for the current Super Record and Record Skeleton brakes which have not changed since 10s Skeleton Brakes were introduced. However, the 2015 Chorus and 2015 "Skeleton" Brakes (which replace Athena Skeleton) are a new design and will allow you to run any tire which clears your fork or rear brake bridge. Check it out:

2015 on the bike, 2009-2014 Chorus, uninstalled
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7309/15763259483_d40c719585_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8623/15760822364_03fc0f9a0d_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7445/16195861530_7e1bd7a79e_b.jpg

Best of all they dropped the prices on both brakes.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7483/16050609922_602bac4bd5_b.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7556/15865956079_ebf2fc8cbd.jpg

Thanks. Good info for future reference. I'm really liking more rubber.

[r_mutt]

+100 ... an important and well know fact

that must be a pretty oversized tire. i find it hard to believe that there's anything bigger in 700x25 than a michelin pro 4 service course. it looks like a 28.

[R3awak3n]

that must be a pretty oversized tire. i find it hard to believe that there's anything bigger in 700x25 than a michelin pro 4 service course. it looks like a 28.

yeah the pro 4 SC measures almost 29mm on my archtypes. Definitely the biggest misleading number on a tire I ever seen (not a problem for me though).

I would say maybe a michelin pro 4 SC in 23 would probably be about a 25mm

[likebikes]

try a wider rim

[leooooo]

http://i62.tinypic.com/2ciis1f.jpg


I refuse to believe any 25mm tire can be larger than pro4 sc. They're measuring 28mm mounted on Belgiums.

Stupid question:
Did you set up the brakes?

Threw this set up on a few years back, I was disappointed at first cause like you, thought there wasn't enough vertical clearance. After setting up the brakes, one actually gains vertical clearance (closing brakes increases the arch I believe)

[stien]

If those are the 25mm belgiums, that's why. Rim width will also change tire width, and more importantly to this thread: height.

[leooooo]

If those are the 25mm belgiums, that's why. Rim width will also change tire width, and more importantly to this thread: height.

Nope. Exact same rim as op's. Belgium c2, 23mm.

[pdmtong]

Thanks for all the replies. The brakes I have fiddled with. Time to try some tires.

[pdmtong]

Revisiting this thread.

Fitting a wide rim with larger than 23 tire on an older frame/fork has become a maddening experience.

the issue is not width the issue is height. as the rim gets wider, the brake arms open up and therefore the arch of the calipers gets lower and closer to the top of the tire.

Campagnolo NA says the brake design from 2011-14 is unchanged with the 2015 versions. meaning that the newest model brakes do not offer any different clearance than the previous generation.

This time I was trying to fit a campagnolo C17 rim with a conti 4K2s 700x25 and the tire hit the bottom of the 2011 chorus brake (straight Moots RSL fork). I chose the 2011 over the 2015 because the latter is now manufactured in Asia and looks clunkier.

Upon re-reading the thread I thought I should get the 2015 brakes but since the design is unchanged, but my current solution is to abandon conti for vittoria open corsa G+ 700x25. It is still tight, but I am not riding over wet leaves and needles.

Pics to follow.

[pdmtong]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180103/8bfa6c134a652b23b2567ecce0371e0f.jpg
Conti 25 hits brake bottom

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180103/c7ea315ff751862d99db0d66996668be.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180103/fed723eca8c886909079d791b6782f40.jpg
Vittoria 25 better

[beeatnik]

Paul, the current Chorus brakes (2015 or Revolution or whatever) and the non-series Skeleton brakes are a different design than all 2009-2018 Super Record, and Record. They also replaced the 2009-2014 Chorus and Athena Skeleton models. They are clunkier but they have considerably more clearance. I posted pics somewhere of the new Chorus brakes on my CAAD10 clearing 32s. In any case they easily have nearly as much clearance as the current DA9100 (1 mm less, possibly).

Here are 9100s with the Conti 25s:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4278/35848429655_2cf92c9bfe_c.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3669/33725493025_3d6d7b724c_c.jpg

And here's my Salsa Pistola with new 2015 Chorus brakes. Tire is a 32mm Vittoria Cross something

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4537/24968356018_aa4d68c50a_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4520/23975822777_cfd8c40afe_c.jpg

Get the new (current) Chorus, the anodization is nice tambien.

[Hank Scorpio]

Did you try a second serrated washer to further space the brake from the fork? Might give you just enough clearance depending on which part of the curve of the wheel the rub is happening.

[raisinberry777]

In line with beeatnik's post, clearance on Campag Potenza brakes is huge - clearly the same design as the new Chorus posted above. With the right fork/frame, 700*30 wouldn't be a problem.

[jtbadge]

Did you try a second serrated washer to further space the brake from the fork? Might give you just enough clearance depending on which part of the curve of the wheel the rub is happening.

This is good advice. My MX Leader has a super low rear brake bridge, and spacing the caliper further away from the frame definitely helped.

FWIW on my Archetypes, a 25c Vittoria Open Pave was true to the labeled size, and had 2-3mm extra vertical clearance over a 26c Panaracer Gravel King.

[lhuerta]

Revisiting this thread......but my current solution is to abandon conti for vittoria open corsa G+ 700x25.

YES it is time to abandon the tall boy Conti per the advice of many 2 years ago when this thread was last active...
:hello:

[C40_guy]

I have used some Michelin Pro Race 700X23's that were almost as large as most 700X25's. At least they were/are larger than Continental 700X23's.

So in my view.....my Michelin 700X23 is like a "short" 700X25.

I had a very difficult time keeping air in those Michelin’s. Contis work far better for me...

[weisan]

I am the last person to know anything about this topic. But I heard the words "skeleton, 25mm, ouzo fork" mentioned and my merlin agilis happened to match those three words. Like I said, I don't know much about these things, all I can do is take some pictures and let you come up with your own conclusions, hope it helps. If not, don't worry about it.