'98 Serotta CSI and 11 speed

[azrider]

Gents,

Looking to build a (new to me) '98 CSI (thanks CampyMan) with 5800. I noticed in Wooly's Cielo thread in Classifieds that Beeatnik mentions following:

1. Semi-horizontal dropouts will make shifting finicky with 11s
2. Semi-horizontal stainless steel dropouts will allow rear wheel slippage unless clamped down with He Man Power using DA or Campy skewers.

Anyone know if my CSI has semi-horizontal dropouts? (it's at shop or else i'd look)

I thought the only thing we had to look out for when building old frame up with new bits was rear spacing........

Any "OTHER" issues I should look out for ?

FD braze on sizing?

[bicycletricycle]

No worries. In 98 serottta came with the vertical 3d dropouts (I think)

Even if they are horizontal you'll b fine, just run campy or shimano skewers, the internal cam works better than most aftermarket options.

[Vinci]

By 1998 the rear spacing would certainly be 130mm, so that's not a problem.

I don't know what the dropouts would be a problem for any shifting, as long as you get the wheel in straight. Since it's possible to NOT get they wheel in straight, I guess maybe that's the reason for concern. It wouldn't be a concern for me.

The wheel slipping in the dropouts really should not be an issue. Unless you're putting out some very serious power and using substandard equipment, I just don't see it as likely.

I've been using the cheapie Shimano skewers that came with my R500s on my single-speed horizontal-dropout commuter for years and have never slipped the rear wheel.

[FlashUNC]

My Della Santa has the semi-horizontal dropouts. No lawyer lips or any of that stuff. I have baby arms, so my clamping force is well shy of gorilla strength, and I've had no issues with slipping or finicky shifting in the on my 11 speed bits on there.

Even if it has horizontal dropouts, you should be fine.

[azrider]

just run campy or shimano skewers, the internal cam works better than most aftermarket options.

Thanks dude.

By 1998 the rear spacing would certainly be 130mm, so that's not a problem.

I don't know what the dropouts would be a problem for any shifting, as long as you get the wheel in straight. Since it's possible to NOT get they wheel in straight, I guess maybe that's the reason for concern. It wouldn't be a concern for me.

Yeah I knew it was going to be spaced at 130, I am just my own worse enemy when it comes to hearing stuff like Beeatnik had mentioned and started to immediately apply it to my situation.....so I wanted to embarrass myself and ask the question.

I think it goes something like: "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Yeah I rarely heed that advice........

[lhuerta]

I would disagree with both claims in bold.

There is nothing unique about a semi-horizontal dropout that makes dialing in shifting on 11-speed any different, compared to a horizontal dropout, as long as spacing is 130mm, hanger length and alignment are within spec, and your dropout faces are properly aligned (see pic below). Also, if you have to use He Man Power to clamp a skewer, you are doing it wrong?n this case any slippage you may be experiencing is likely due to unaligned dropouts.

[azrider]

Also, if you have to use He Man Power to clamp a skewer, you are doing it wrong?.

But what if you're riding Battlecat? :p:p

Thanks for info lhuerta

[rounder]

Gents,

Looking to build a (new to me) '98 CSI (thanks CampyMan) with 5800. I noticed in Wooly's Cielo thread in Classifieds that Beeatnik mentions following:

1. Semi-horizontal dropouts will make shifting finicky with 11s
2. Semi-horizontal stainless steel dropouts will allow rear wheel slippage unless clamped down with He Man Power using DA or Campy skewers.

Anyone know if my CSI has semi-horizontal dropouts? (it's at shop or else i'd look)

I thought the only thing we had to look out for when building old frame up with new bits was rear spacing........

Any "OTHER" issues I should look out for ?



FD braze on sizing?

Why would using 11-speed on an old serotta with horizontal dropouts lead to wheel slipping.

Just wondering because I have a serotta nhx that was respaced to 130 so that I could use 8-speed years ago with no problems. That was done by a respected frame builder that I had faith in. I later changed over to 10-speed Record and began having wheel slip issues. I also put on used Mavic Cosmos wheels with Mavic skewers at the same time. Later, based on LBS recommendations, I took out the adjuster screws and put on old Campy skewers. I have not had the problem since but do not ride that bike often.

[azrider]

Why would using 11-speed on an old serotta with horizontal dropouts lead to wheel slipping.

hence the question.

good hearing you haven't had any probs tho

[Liberace]

I know I ran into a problem running a certain cassette on a CSI that caused the chain to strike the seat stay. I think it might have been a 10spd cassette though. If you stay with a 12t small cog, I don't think there is going to be a problem.

[Black Dog]

11 speed campy on a 1991 serotta Colorado II with horizontal drop outs spaced to 130mm with zero issues. I use an internal cam skewer (shimano 7700 dura-ace).

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac209/BlackDogryka/Serotta%20CII/file_zpsba26af1d.jpg (http://s900.photobucket.com/user/BlackDogryka/media/Serotta%20CII/file_zpsba26af1d.jpg.html)

[alembical]

I run newer Ultegra mechanical 10 speed on my 1998 CSi, have no issues, and can't think why the 11 speed would be any different.

[mhespenheide]

11 speed campy on a 1991 serotta Colorado II with horizontal drop outs spaced to 130mm with zero issues. I use an internal cam skewer (shimano 7700 dura-ace).

http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac209/BlackDogryka/Serotta%20CII/file_zpsba26af1d.jpg (http://s900.photobucket.com/user/BlackDogryka/media/Serotta%20CII/file_zpsba26af1d.jpg.html)

So very nice, with the rim labels matching the frame and logo colors!

[dave thompson]

If you take a look at the CSi in the '98 Serotta catalog http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=87281 it shows that bike with what today are considered standard rear verical dropouts. I don't see any issues running any modern drivetrain on your bike. Even going back to the '96 catalog the CSi has the vertical dropouts.

[Neil]

This is my '98, works absolutely fine: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8131181@N05/albums/72157636552632534

[azrider]

This is my '98, works absolutely fine: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8131181@N05/albums/72157636552632534

Holy crap.....a lot of love when into that CSI.....very cool

[Cameron]

The wheel slippage mentioned in that thread was specifically in regard to the Cielo. King/Cielo utilizes a polished stainless outer dropout face on the model mentioned. The slippage isn't because it's a semi-horizontal dropout, it's because of that in combination with the polished stainless face.

That Cielo Wooly bought that Beatnik was making that comment on uses the dropouts I'm talking about same as my personal Cielo Cross Classic does as shown here:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2abzRxjCKHI/U6MFsu2rP1I/AAAAAAAAGDs/HygEzUnE9zA/s912-Ic42/IMG_2310.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5bcqZ0Lr77w/U6MFqja3TdI/AAAAAAAAGDk/ZNK_5auNXhE/s912-Ic42/IMG_2309.JPG

[rounder]

For me, the wheel slipping out was not that big of a deal because when it happened (three times) it freaked me out but was going slow. But what if I was going down a hill (maybe it would not have happened then).

How do you know what the reason for the wheel slip is, other than a loose skewer, and how do you know if the problem is fixed. Thanks.

[thwart]

Holy crap.....a lot of love when into that CSI.....very cool

But so worth it.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5546/11137668423_63b964a544_c.jpg

[Seramount]

This is my '98, works absolutely fine:

man, that project was eye-opening...

I bow in your direction.

[Neil]

Thanks! It was well worth it - my CSi is the reference frame for ride and handling against which I judge the frames that we build.

Here it is today, forgive the rather dim camera phone picture:

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t1.0-9/10671386_10153663143628638_8692631676067499263_n.j pg?oh=e17b478a5a7f6278eb63f148353b4917&oe=56CC5057