Anyone know someone at Geekhouse?

[Climb01742]

I bought a used Geekhouse Team Mudville frame and I've encountered some challenges in building it up. We figured, why not seek some guidance from the folks who built the frame? So both my mechanic and I have sent Geekhouse repeated emails (there is no phone number listed on their site) asking for help without a reply. It's been a week now. Does anyone happen to know someone at Geekhouse who might be able to assist me in reaching someone? Any assistance would be very welcome. Thanks.

[ANAO]

I reached out to them about a month ago about a new build (2 year waitlist!).

They take about 2 weeks to respond. Sit tight. If you need the direct email, feel free to PM me.

[Climb01742]

I reached out to them about a month ago about a new build (2 year waitlist!).

They take about 2 weeks to respond. Sit tight. If you need the direct email, feel free to PM me.

Thanks. PM incoming. Two weeks to respond? That wouldn't fly in my industry.;)

[eBAUMANN]

Yea, im really good friends with marty (the only person at geekhouse)...lemme know if i can help.

What issues are you experiencing?

[Climb01742]

Yea, im really good friends with marty (the only person at geekhouse)...lemme know if i can help.

What issues are you experiencing?

Eric, see your PMs. Thx!

[R3awak3n]

geekhouse has a 2 year wait? damn, they do make awesome bikes but the prolly effects def worked out in their favor.

[thirdgenbird]

geekhouse has a 2 year wait? damn, they do make awesome bikes but the prolly effects def worked out in their favor.

Two year wait list and you can't stop buy the shop without paying a deposit on a frame.

I'm a fan of what they are doing and I appreciate them not wanting to be bothered, but I also don't want to buy a frame and wait two years without ever having seen one if their frames in person.

[xjahx]

This week was the builders ball and Providence CX.

For a used frame, second owner from a 1-2 man shop, I would expect a few days to pass before hearing back. For a new frame and/or first owner, I imagine and would expect the time to be shorter. This is my expectation for all custom builders, not GH in particular. I have worked closely with Marty over the years and cannot say enough about his work.

What are the problems? What was the original build?

[eBAUMANN]

Two year wait list and you can't stop buy the shop without paying a deposit on a frame.

It's a framebuilding shop, someone's place of business...do you get to poke around the auto repair shop down the street whenever you feel like it? No way. Do you get to poke around if you leave your car there to be repaired? Maybe...but then you're just being "that guy." Don't be that guy.

I'm sure if you had a reason to be there, it could be arranged, but I think it's a little unreasonable to expect there to be an open door at any builders shop. If there was, that wait would be 5 years instead of 2 because he would never get anything done.

[Climb01742]

I am trying to treat this in a respectful way. The details of the challenge we're encountering will stay between the builder and us for now. That seems fair.

But I do feel that the inability to reply to repeated emails within a week is not a reassuring sign.

[eBAUMANN]

If you knew more about Marty's situation, you would be amazed he had the time to respond to any emails whatsoever. On top of building the frames and running the business, he is also managing an entire floor of a building that 12+ other businesses occupy. That's a tall order for 3 people, let alone 1.

[thirdgenbird]

It's a framebuilding shop, someone's place of business...do you get to poke around the auto repair shop down the street whenever you feel like it? No way. Do you get to poke around if you leave your car there to be repaired? Maybe...but then you're just being "that guy." Don't be that guy.

I'm sure if you had a reason to be there, it could be arranged, but I think it's a little unreasonable to expect there to be an open door at any builders shop. If there was, that wait would be 5 years instead of 2 because he would never get anything done.

no, I don't poke around the auto repair shop. Poor analogy. I just wanted the option to see a frame before paying for it, you know like that show room they put those new cars in.

Like i said, i completely understand they don't want people getting in their way. I was just disappointed they couldn't point me to a local shop that might have something on display. I would just perfer seeing something they have done in person when I am in the area. They did say I could stop buy a race and maybe catch a frame, but I don't want to be that guy either. It's just a difference in buying/selling preferences. Not a knock on Marty or geekhouse. A two year wait is a larger commitment for me than the money. I want to make my desicion off more than some pictures and a radavist article or two. I fully admit my expectations could be out of line. Marty obviously isn't struggling for orders.

Marty took a week or two to reply to my emails but they were always pleasant and through. I was never bothered by the delay.

[R3awak3n]

If you knew more about Marty's situation, you would be amazed he had the time to respond to any emails whatsoever. On top of building the frames and running the business, he is also managing an entire floor of a building that 12+ other businesses occupy. That's a tall order for 3 people, let alone 1.

He seems like an awesome guy from what I have seen but sounds like he needs to hire some help to do all that stuff.

[buddybikes]

Bring it too a good shop they can figure it out, it isn't rocket science.

This should be a paid service provided to you, not warranty.

[eBAUMANN]

He seems like an awesome guy from what I have seen but sounds like he needs to hire some help to do all that stuff.

He absolutely does and has tried to find someone but hasn't been able to. any of you guys wanna move to boston and manage a floor of a building?!

[eBAUMANN]

no, I don't poke around the auto repair shop. Poor analogy. I just wanted the option to see a frame before paying for it, you know like that show room they put those new cars in.

Like i said, i completely understand they don't want people getting in their way. I was just disappointed they couldn't point me to a local shop that might have something on display. I would just perfer seeing something they have done in person when I am in the area. They did say I could stop buy a race and maybe catch a frame, but I don't want to be that guy either. It's just a difference in buying/selling preferences. Not a knock on Marty or geekhouse. A two year wait is a larger commitment for me than the money. I want to make my desicion off more than some pictures and a radavist article or two. I fully admit my expectations could be out of line. Marty obviously isn't struggling for orders.

Marty took a week or two to reply to my emails but they were always pleasant and through. I was never bothered by the delay.

Ok let's just get something sorted real quick here:

They = Marty. One guy.

Most framebuilding "companies" = one guy, maybe 2 if they are doing really well.

Now that we have established that most builders you can think of are one man operations, try to cut them a little slack if they can't deliver you a show room experience. That's what NAHBS is for, that's what the builders ball in providence Friday night was for, that's what a team tent at a CX race is for (trust me, it's ok to walk over and look at the bikes on the racks). There is a time and a place and unfortunately it's not always your ideal scenario.

All that said, Marty has his hands very full these days and thus, a 2 year wait. Even wraith apparently has a 7+ month wait for a non-custom frame...think about that for a minute.

[thirdgenbird]

Marty's corispondance to me indicated that "they" had hired several employees.

As I said, I get where he is coming from. I really didn't mean it as a criticism. That said, the builders around here usually have a frame in a local shop. Two invited me to stop by when I sent an inquiry. I haven't done it because I didn't want to consume too much of their time until I was nearly sure what direction I was headed. Good chance that is still geekhouse. I'm just choosing to wait until I get a chance to see one of their frames. Buisness has prevented me from attending things like the builder's ball. I'm actually in Povidence next Friday.

I'm not sure what the Wraith comment has to do with anything but Adam builds frames under anothe brand doesn't he? If so, I'm surprised the lead times are not longer.

[eBAUMANN]

Adam doesn't build the wraith frames. He builds the stanridge frames. Wraiths are built in production batches using stock geometry. Something that an efficient shop can churn out in surprising numbers. That's why a 7 month wait is interesting to me. Either they have a ridiculous amount of orders to fill or its just igleheart workin on his own to fill em, which takes time, because it's ONE DUDE.

Also, FWIW, I can't think of a single one man show in the boston area who has anything "on display" in a local shop...simply because they don't have the time/capacity/$$ to build up an extra bike for such purposes.

[thirdgenbird]

That lead time is somewhat intriguing. I thought Adam was involved in production causing the bottle neck.

As I said, I understand it might be my wants that are out of line. Custom frames likely are not for me for a number of reasons.

I've had the fortune to see examples from at least four one man builders on display at shops. I can't tell you who owns them or fronted the money. The important thing to me was seeing the small details that would tempt me to spend 2-4x what a stock or used frame would cost me.

[maximus]

That lead time is somewhat intriguing. I thought Adam was involved in production causing the bottle neck.

As I said, I understand it might be my wants that are out of line. Custom frames likely are not for me for a number of reasons.

Just wanted to jump in real quick because I stated my Wraith took 7 months to arrive in another thread (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=173361) earlier today. The Wraith frames are made in batches/waves. Other waves may not have as much lead time, so give Adam a shout. He was really transparent with the process and his updates exposed me the many logistical factors that a project like this takes.

I'm the type of guy who does a ton of research before jumping into a purchase. I just don't want someone who is entertaining the idea of grabbing a Wraith to see that timeframe and get bugged out. Contact Adam - he will contact you back and usually quickly.

End thread drift.

[unterhausen]

I've had the fortune to see examples from at least four one man builders on display at shops. I can't tell you who owns them or fronted the money. The important thing to me was seeing the small details that would tempt me to spend 2-4x what a stock or used frame would cost me.
I don't think this is an unreasonable desire. I'm not sure how they should meet your needs though, a frame shop visit seems unlikely to give you the experience that you want.

[thirdgenbird]

I don't think this is an unreasonable desire. I'm not sure how they should meet your needs though, a frame shop visit seems unlikely to give you the experience that you want.

I don't expect them to meet my desire. They have two years worth of orders to fill and I've got several more local options that I've been able to see first hand. I don't view this any different than a builder that refuses to do electronic wiring or only does rim brakes. It's a business decision they have made. I just need to make sure my heart is in the right place before I commit to a two year "relationship."

[beeatnik]

IMO, it's all good either way. Some cats return calls and/or emails and some cats don't. In the end, the only thing that counts is the level of service to existing clients.

[raygunner]

What happened to Brad?

[zank]

He works at Seven now.

[Climb01742]

Bring it too a good shop they can figure it out, it isn't rocket science.

This should be a paid service provided to you, not warranty.

Your post makes a number of completely unfounded assumptions. I have explored every other option I or my mechanic could think of. I have taken the frame to the biggest, most experienced shop in Boston and asked their resident builder and they couldn't help me. I'm not asking for anything free. And I exhausted everything I could think of before troubling Geekhouse. And all we wrote Geekhouse about now was a request for info and advice. That doesn't feel excessive.

Before interjecting into the conversation, it helps to know what you're talking about,

[Climb01742]

He works at Seven now.

I'd like to give Mike a shout out. A few months ago, I wrote Mike to ask about lead times and the ordering process. His reply came about a week later with a long, thoughtful and kind explanation and apology for the delay in writing back. He didn't have to do that but it was appreciated and it gave a glimpse into the guy Mike is and how he runs his business. Many things go into building a top notch frame building company. I definitely got the sense that Mike understands the full range. And for another data point, in the 10+ years that Dave Kirk and I have been first builder-customer, and then friends, Dave has replied to every email in 24 hours. Carl Strong is another top notch communicator. A request for information is part of the business. I believe I have a fair baseline for what's SOP in the business.

[fuzzalow]

I am and have always been supportive of builders. And I always give the same response to inquiries like this. If you hang up a shingle where you interface with customers, you have an obligation and professional courtesy to respond to any customer in a timely manner. Any customer because the builder can't know who and what is what until he reads the correspondence.

As a client or perspective client, I couldn't care less what else the builder does on the side - it is not my concern. All are lame excuses for time management issues that must be accounted for and handled by the builder in any manner he sees fit when he committed himself to hanging up a shingle. Any variant of the "too busy" routine is sad sack sorry crap and nobody wants to hear it - Poor baby, can't handle the pressure. Tough luck, comes with the turf pal. No client wants to be an unwilling participant to some builder's daily dramas - we are doing business here and I am not here as your friend.

Why is this kinda thing even up for debate?

[AngryScientist]

I have to say, I agree with the fuzz 100% on this one.

[Auk]

As a client or perspective client, I couldn't care less what else the builder does on the side - it is not my concern. All are lame excuses for time management issues that must be accounted for and handled by the builder in any manner he sees fit when he committed himself to hanging up a shingle. Any variant of the "too busy" routine is sad sack sorry crap and nobody wants to hear it - Poor baby, can't handle the pressure. Tough luck, comes with the turf pal. No client wants to be an unwilling participant to some builder's daily dramas - we are doing business here and I am not here as your friend.

Why is this kinda thing even up for debate?


OP isn't a client or customer, he bought the frame second hand. When I've done that, I automatically know I'm not first in the line to get stuff answered.

Did OP contact the previous owner to see how they handled the build up issue?

[Climb01742]

Did OP contact the previous owner to see how they handled the build up issue?

Yes. I believe I was thorough in exhausting avenues before contactling Geekhouse for advice.

[fuzzalow]

OP isn't a client or customer, he bought the frame second hand. When I've done that, I automatically know I'm not first in the line to get stuff answered.

Did OP contact the previous owner to see how they handled the build up issue?

Nonsense. The OP's email is in the same inbox as any other client or perspective client's inquiry. As such, the OP gets a slice of the 30 seconds of administrative overhead for his one of the 10 inbox messages that evening needed for Geekhouse to make a reply. Of course, if the general tenor of Geekhouse is that they can't be bothered, well that's all I need to know about Geekhouse.

Drama queen and attention whore builders. Aren't they special! They couldn't get themselves elected president and they weren't born the Queen of England so being an artiste & auteur eff builder was the next best thing!

[Climb01742]

Want to know the definition of 'champ'?

Zank PM'd me asking if there was anything he could do to help. He and I are in the same neck of the woods. I explained what was going on. And he wrote back:

'If you can sneak out to Sutton during those hours, I can quickly do the work. Let me know. The number is XXX-XXX-XXXX. Happy to help, my friend!'

Isn't that remarkable? He has some pretty specialized tools and in a heartbeat, he offered to help. Take time from his day to help a forum member out.

Zank = champ.

[jr59]

Want to know the definition of 'champ'?

Zank PM'd me asking if there was anything he could do to help. He and I are in the same neck of the woods. I explained what was going on. And he wrote back:

'If you can sneak out to Sutton during those hours, I can quickly do the work. Let me know. The number is XXX-XXX-XXXX. Happy to help, my friend!'

Isn't that remarkable? He has some pretty specialized tools and in a heartbeat, he offered to help. Take time from his day to help a forum member out.

Zank = champ.


That's great! And every time I have ever asked a question of him his response has been very quick. And I don't even own any of his bikes! Same with Dave Kirk and a few others.

I'll share one of mine with you guys; Dave Wages and I are FB friends, and when he saw/heard about a fire that wiped out my business and home, he contacted me and sent me a few T-shirts. Now this may not sound like a lot, but when all you have to wear is what is on your back, it meant a lot!

A LOT of good guys out there, really to many to list.

[xjahx]

OP isn't a client or customer, he bought the frame second hand. When I've done that, I automatically know I'm not first in the line to get stuff answered.

Did OP contact the previous owner to see how they handled the build up issue?

Exactly correct and what I stated above. There is a difference between a first time owner, customer and one that purchased the bike second hand. If the bike does not work as described, contact the seller first. If you must still contact the builder, have realistic expectations and be humble.

I do not call BMW about my 2010 wagon, because of XYZ. I pay a local shop to investigate and repair. You had better believe, however, if I purchased the car new, I would call the dealer directly, expect the highest level of service, and accommodations in between. For my used Moots, GH, Igleheart, you name it, I figure it out.

Second hand is second hand, large or small. The bike worked for the first owner presumably, as you described it as used. What changed?

As for the dude wanting a tour or to see a done frame in a retail shop, find a builder whose marketing aligns with your desires. Otherwise, write a post looking for someone local to show you an example, go to a CX race where the builder has a tent and sponsors riders, go to a builders event. They all market, but not how you desire.

Fuzz, tone down the drama. Ebaum provided potential insight. None of this is from the horse's mouths or actions to create your blanketing statements about GH. All we know: some guy purchased a used bike, he cannot figure it out, he wrote for help. He has waited 5 business days for a response, one of those being the builder's ball and shouldered by Gloucester and Providence...CX races, where said business markets and sponsors.

[thirdgenbird]

Sometimes I wonder if people read.

I dint ask for a tour. I asked to see a frame. I also said I had no issue with their stance, it just did not align with my desire. I'm not on the east coast and geekhouse has no presence that I've seen around here. Just like Marty can't reply to an email in a week, I can't drop everything and fly across country on a specific date to see a product I'm thinking about buying. When I commit, I will likely stick with a more local builder. The geographical separation isn't geekhouse's fault and their buisness isn't dependent on my purchasing desicion. I've lost no sleep over this and I'm sure they have not either.

I don't think fuzz needs to tone down. He is intitled to his opinion and if he were in the frame market, I'm sure he would make his choice accordingly. Apparently pleanty of others are content with the way geekhouse operates.

[Climb01742]

Exactly correct and what I stated above. There is a difference between a first time owner, customer and one that purchased the bike second hand. If the bike does not work as described, contact the seller first. If you must still contact the builder, have realistic expectations and be humble.

Would you care to point out where I didn't do exactly as you suggest? And 'be humble'? Would you please explain what you mean by that?

[xjahx]

My definition of humble as a second hand frame owner: apologetic email, recognizing that I am not a customer and taking away from their business.

Humble to me is not posting on a forum, what will inevitably turn in to a smear campaign, if I have not heard back in a week. Yes, that was not your intention. We have all read this book before and know exactly the ending.

[seanile]

or they could be so impressed by the level of service and the quality of the used frame that they ask to be placed on the wait list for a new one of their own. everyone is a potential customer and should be treated as such.

HOWEVER, this is important to note in your patience (which should have a limit of course).
He has waited 5 business days for a response, one of those being the builder's ball and shouldered by Gloucester and Providence

busy times. we don't get mad at companies being late to reply for going to interbike etc.
but much longer and id say you're justified.

hell, white industries still has an out of office on their customer service person's VM that says they'll be back on 9/21 from interbike. haven't heard from them in a week.

[thirdgenbird]

My definition of humble as a second hand frame owner: apologetic email, recognizing that I am not a customer and taking away from their business.

Humble to me is not posting on a forum, what will inevitably turn in to a smear campaign, if I have not heard back in a week. Yes, that was not your intention. We have all read this book before and know exactly the ending.

Who says he is taking away from their buisness? What did the original owner buy when they sold the geekhouse? Is the OP a potential customer for a future frame?

The OP has been respectful and tight lipped about the issue. He was only looking for communication help. In the era of smart phones and constant connectivity, I don't blame him for wondering after 5 days.

[chiasticon]

a couple years ago I bought some custom wheels from Sugar Wheelworks out of Portland. I had been all over the net, contacting various builders and trying to get quotes and advice. time to hear back from them averaged into the better part of a week. quotes on how long my wheels would take to build averaged into the better part of a month. Sugar wrote me back with estimates within a day and continued to do so throughout the conversation before placing the order, and sometimes replies only took a few hours (despite being three time zones apart). and these were detailed emails, answering all of my questions, including spreadsheets of potential build options, complete with weights and costs of each one; very organized and detailed. then once I placed the order, my wheels took only two days to get through their queue and be on their way to me. at one point I said "wow you sure reply quickly!" and Jude, the owner/operator who'd I'd been talking with the entire time, said "busy people offer quick replies." it really hit me. she's totally right. if you want to stay busy, you need to tighten your ship up enough that you can help past/present/future customers. if you can't, you're not gonna stay busy for very long.

[Climb01742]

My definition of humble as a second hand frame owner: apologetic email, recognizing that I am not a customer and taking away from their business.

Humble to me is not posting on a forum, what will inevitably turn in to a smear campaign, if I have not heard back in a week. Yes, that was not your intention. We have all read this book before and know exactly the ending.

Your first sentence is exactly the email that was sent to Geekhouse. It was intentionally very polite and fully acknowledged my second-hand owner status, and that I/we were grateful for any help. We specifically were seeking only information and advice on an issue. Nothing more. As part of our due diligence, we contacted a highly respected component maker and they too suggested that given the issue, we should contact the builder.

Going to the builder for advice seems like a reasonable course of action after we exhausted our other options.

Reasonable people can disagree on time frames for email replies. In my industry, EOD is considered good customer service. Within 24 hours is SOP. So a week feels a fair length of time to seek another avenue to a response.

And yes, I considered that posting here would bring attention to this. Again, reasonable people can disagree on this, but a frequent topic here is framebuilder communication approaches. Knowing how a builder treats this business issue is a relevant piece of the purchasing puzzle, I think.

You clearly think I stepped outside the lines here. I see it differently. Fair enough. The fact that within a few hours Mike Zank stepped up to help inviting me to his shop speaks eloquently of a different business approach.

Social media is a tool for giving consumers information.

[Len J]

Exactly correct and what I stated above. There is a difference between a first time owner, customer and one that purchased the bike second hand. If the bike does not work as described, contact the seller first. If you must still contact the builder, have realistic expectations and be humble.

I do not call BMW about my 2010 wagon, because of XYZ. I pay a local shop to investigate and repair. You had better believe, however, if I purchased the car new, I would call the dealer directly, expect the highest level of service, and accommodations in between. For my used Moots, GH, Igleheart, you name it, I figure it out.

Second hand is second hand, large or small. The bike worked for the first owner presumably, as you described it as used. What changed?



Totally disagree.

And if your local BMW mechanic couldn't figure it out, you/he would surely contact the dealer to see if there was anything else they could do. And BMW would be happy to deal with it because they recognize that any interaction is an opportunity to create and enhance customer loyalty.


Climb has been clear that he exhausted other steps before contacting the builder.
It's your assumption that his contact to the builder was not humble, not acknowledging his position as a second owner...I'd bet you are wrong.

As to the 5 days not being unreasonable..... in the days where you needed to be near a computer to answer e-mail, traveling might be an excuse, but in todays world of smartphones, 5 days in any business that relies on customer service to succeed, it's absurd. In addition, an automatic out of office response, which is a minimum for a business e-mail account, is pretty easy to do. I'd suspect, Climb would have waited a little longer if he got something like that. But nothing for 5 days...unacceptable.

Where did this idea come from that independent builders don't have to be responsive to customers and potential customers?

We don't care, we don't have to???

Le

[eBAUMANN]

Glad to hear you found a potential resolution, zank is good people.

Moral of the story - if email response time is your #1 factor in choosing a builder, geekhouse might not be for you.

Can we end this conversation now?

[yngpunk]

As to the 5 days not being unreasonable..... in the days where you needed to be near a computer to answer e-mail, traveling might be an excuse, but in todays world of smartphones, 5 days in any business that relies on customer service to succeed, it's absurd. In addition, an automatic out of office response, which is a minimum for a business e-mail account, is pretty easy to do. I'd suspect, Climb would have waited a little longer if he got something like that. But nothing for 5 days...unacceptable.

Le

The estimates of how connected the world is and how much time people spend online on a daily basis must be over stated.

[Joachim]

Want to know the definition of 'champ'?

Zank PM'd me asking if there was anything he could do to help. He and I are in the same neck of the woods. I explained what was going on. And he wrote back:

'If you can sneak out to Sutton during those hours, I can quickly do the work. Let me know. The number is XXX-XXX-XXXX. Happy to help, my friend!'

Isn't that remarkable? He has some pretty specialized tools and in a heartbeat, he offered to help. Take time from his day to help a forum member out.

Zank = champ.

Perfect example of how just the offer to do something, can turn into positive PR. Which one will "you" pick?

[Len J]

Want to know the definition of 'champ'?

Zank PM'd me asking if there was anything he could do to help. He and I are in the same neck of the woods. I explained what was going on. And he wrote back:

'If you can sneak out to Sutton during those hours, I can quickly do the work. Let me know. The number is XXX-XXX-XXXX. Happy to help, my friend!'

Isn't that remarkable? He has some pretty specialized tools and in a heartbeat, he offered to help. Take time from his day to help a forum member out.

Zank = champ.

Compare and contrast the response of Geekhouse with this gesture by Zank. Which builder is Climb likely to use in the future.... How many readers come away with a positive impression of Zank and a negative impression of Geekhouse as a result of this?

Too many business people seem to forget that every interaction with a customer or potential customer leaves either a positive or a negative impression. Impressions matter because they impact word of mouth.

Good on Zank.

Len

[chiasticon]

How many readers come away with a positive impression of Zank and a negative impression of Geekhouse as a result of this?
<raises hand>

[eBAUMANN]

Had Marty seen this thread (or even looked at this forum) the way zank did, he would have likely done the same. Don't pass judgement on people you don't know.

[Len J]

Had Marty seen this thread (or even looked at this forum) the way zank did, he would have likely done the same. Don't pass judgement on people you don't know.

Before or after he responded to his e-mail?

Len

[leftsidedrive]

So, let's get down to the real question OP.

What was wrong with the frame?

[eBAUMANN]

Zank sent a message because he checks this forum. Marty doesn't. To judge character and service based on who spends more time on an Internet forum is a little foolish. #atmo

[R3awak3n]

So, let's get down to the real question OP.

What was wrong with the frame?


that I have also been trying to figure out.

Also, zanc is awesome but so is geekhouse (even though he has to hire help asap, I feel bad for the guy)

[AngryScientist]

OK, let's not attack each other in this thread.

The good news about this forum is that we can have respectful conversation about things like this and explore options.

We dont censor threads here to protect anyone, and the flip side is that it's an open forum and everyone is welcome here to defend their position.

the other good news is that this kind of stuff DOES come out. i for one am not a believer in spending my money on unknown commodities. we all have a vote with our wallets when it comes to custom frames, and threads like this contribute to the pool of information available on particular builders.

[thirdgenbird]

Zank sent a message because he checks this forum. Marty doesn't. To judge character and service based on who spends more time on an Internet forum is a little foolish. #atmo

I'm guessing people are judging geekhouse based on how Marty replies to direct email communication, not his participation on the forum. Because their business model is set up around this type of communication, it seems understandable to me.

[Len J]

Zank sent a message because he checks this forum. Marty doesn't. To judge character and service based on who spends more time on an Internet forum is a little foolish. #atmo

There is a long distance from an unfavorable impression to a judgement.

People make buying decision based on the information they can access. they then weigh that information both positive and negative and decide. I have to tell you, if I contact 5 builders about a potential build, and 4 of the 5 respond timely and 1 doesn't, that's a negative. It may not be the reason I buy or don't buy, but it does not help that builder. People have choices.

A responsive builder is more valuable to a customer than a slow to respond builder.

IMO.

Len

[Climb01742]

So, let's get down to the real question OP.

What was wrong with the frame?

I haven't shared that because while we've identified the 'symptom' of the issue, we haven't been able to nail down a cause. That was one reason for contacting the builder, to describe the issue and ask if it's come up before. Because the frame is used, addressing causality isn't so clear. And I don't want to say something I'm not sure about. My guess and hope is when Zank sees the issue, he can both correct it and help me understand how it occurred.

We worked the issue for over two weeks before reaching out, and with fall most definitely here in New England, I'd just love to get the bike on the road.

[xjahx]

Good luck with solving the issue. I do wonder what it was. Present from the start or post first owner using the bike? I agree, fall in NE is the time to be on a bike.

The cool thing about Marty is that he actually approached the city of Boston to obtain space that would house manufacturing in the city, Head Quarters. Yes, it likely subtracts from his ability to be on forums and respond to email messages, but overall, the impact of his work is much greater than the frames he produces.

Great job, hardly an excuse, and certainly not the behavior of an isolated artist, focusing only on his existence. Manufacturing in Boston by individuals or small companies had become as rare as a unicorn. It is nice to see an upswing on this front in a city with an unbearable cost of living.

On the GH front, I have been impressed with the work, the outcomes, and the customer service.

[Justin Spinelli]

How is extortion respectful, James?

You should be ashamed of yourself .

I am trying to treat this in a respectful way. The details of the challenge we're encountering will stay between the builder and us for now. That seems fair.

But I do feel that the inability to reply to repeated emails within a week is not a reassuring sign.

[sjauch2]

So, bikes huh guys!?!?!

Sounds like everyone needs to go for a ride.

[Marty Walsh]

I bought a used Geekhouse Team Mudville frame and I've encountered some challenges in building it up. We figured, why not seek some guidance from the folks who built the frame? So both my mechanic and I have sent Geekhouse repeated emails (there is no phone number listed on their site) asking for help without a reply. It's been a week now. Does anyone happen to know someone at Geekhouse who might be able to assist me in reaching someone? Any assistance would be very welcome. Thanks.

Hi guys, Marty here, owner of Geekhouse. Where to start.. So I emailed James (Climb01742). Told him he's welcome to come by the shop, as I'd really like to see the frame in order to diagnosis the issue he is having. I've also reached out to Zanc, thanked him, and said that if it's more convenient for the customer that he should take a look at it as well.

My focus at the moment is fabricating bicycles that people have been waiting on for a very long time, they are my priority. I'm also working on hiring a couple of full time employees, but at the moment it's just me here full time. It's not a perfect system, but it is what it is. If another builder seems like a better fit, then go that way. If you want a Geekhouse, you might just need to wait for a bit.

Gosh, I used to be so much more fun when I had a mustache.. Have a nice day!

-Marty

[Climb01742]

How is extortion respectful, James?

You should be ashamed of yourself .

Justin,

That seems a bit strong but you have every right to disagree with how I've handled this situation. How would you have suggested I handle it?

[Joachim]

Justin,

That seems a bit strong but you have every right to disagree with how I've handled this situation. How would you have suggested I handle it?

We went from reaching a frame builder to a criminal offense. I think you need a lawyer. Extortion is pretty serious.

[raygunner]

I am and have always been supportive of builders. And I always give the same response to inquiries like this. If you hang up a shingle where you interface with customers, you have an obligation and professional courtesy to respond to any customer in a timely manner. Any customer because the builder can't know who and what is what until he reads the correspondence.

As a client or perspective client, I couldn't care less what else the builder does on the side - it is not my concern. All are lame excuses for time management issues that must be accounted for and handled by the builder in any manner he sees fit when he committed himself to hanging up a shingle. Any variant of the "too busy" routine is sad sack sorry crap and nobody wants to hear it - Poor baby, can't handle the pressure. Tough luck, comes with the turf pal. No client wants to be an unwilling participant to some builder's daily dramas - we are doing business here and I am not here as your friend.

Why is this kinda thing even up for debate?

+1

Especially when there's so many proverbial shingles out there (email, FB, Instagram, Twitter, ect). But if you're that busy as a builder (or any business) a simple message letting the client/perspective client know what the status is.

Why should you have to find out via this forum what the status of a specific framebuilder is at the current time? I appreciate when builders note their lead time and are upfront about their current state of affairs.

On the flipside I have no understanding of the rigors of running my own business nor framebuilding. I'm sure it's extremely difficult. But in today's age such communication is helping to fuel your business, whether with current clients or future clients. That time & effort w/ communication is a cost that has to be accounted for.

But I guess what I can gleam from a few recent posts (Moots, this one, ect) is that it appears builders are doing okay business wise. Any thoughts?

[simonov]

the other good news is that this kind of stuff DOES come out. i for one am not a believer in spending my money on unknown commodities. we all have a vote with our wallets when it comes to custom frames, and threads like this contribute to the pool of information available on particular builders.

What's unfortunate, though, is that in a span of 18 hours this thread became a pile-on of negativity towards Geekhouse because Marty didn't reply to an email from a second-hand Geekhouse owner over a 5 day span that probably had him consumed with the NE Builders' Ball and other events. And now that he did respond, both in the thread and to the OP via email, the negativity is still archived for future customers to stumble upon.

I may have missed it in the thread, but the first person that should be figuring out how to resolve the OP's problem is the person he bought the frame from. It's hard to believe (at least without hearing what the issue is) that the frame was ridden by someone, sold, delivered to a new owner and suddenly has an issue that multiple pro mechanics can't figure out. But even if it does, a week can easily pass without getting to some emails and Marty shouldn't be hung out to dry for that. The fact that Zank stepped up to help out speaks volumes about him; I'm a customer of his and a huge fan and I'm not surprised at his generosity. But it also doesn't show that Marty lacks the same character; it shows that he didn't get online as recently.

[beeatnik]

Simonov, I like your common sense style.

[54ny77]

as a business owner, it must be hard to leave a message on phone or an auto reply email to the tune of, "sorry, i am out of town at [vacation/tradeshow/therapy] and will be unable to respond to messages until [xyz date]. please leave a message and i will contact you after [xyz date]."

:rolleyes:

[guido]

+1

what's unfortunate, though, is that in a span of 18 hours this thread became a pile-on of negativity towards geekhouse because marty didn't reply to an email from a second-hand geekhouse owner over a 5 day span that probably had him consumed with the ne builders' ball and other events. And now that he did respond, both in the thread and to the op via email, the negativity is still archived for future customers to stumble upon.

I may have missed it in the thread, but the first person that should be figuring out how to resolve the op's problem is the person he bought the frame from. It's hard to believe (at least without hearing what the issue is) that the frame was ridden by someone, sold, delivered to a new owner and suddenly has an issue that multiple pro mechanics can't figure out. But even if it does, a week can easily pass without getting to some emails and marty shouldn't be hung out to dry for that. The fact that zank stepped up to help out speaks volumes about him; i'm a customer of his and a huge fan and i'm not surprised at his generosity. But it also doesn't show that marty lacks the same character; it shows that he didn't get online as recently.

[echelon_john]

Where to start might be responding before someone has a reason to work around you rather than through you? (and I think in this day and age 5 days is a long enough reason)

The tone here isn't helping IMO. "It is what it is" and "You just might need to wait a little bit"? If I used those words with my clients they wouldn't be clients for very long.


Hi guys, Marty here, owner of Geekhouse. Where to start.. So I emailed James (Climb01742). Told him he's welcome to come by the shop, as I'd really like to see the frame in order to diagnosis the issue he is having. I've also reached out to Zanc, thanked him, and said that if it's more convenient for the customer that he should take a look at it as well.

My focus at the moment is fabricating bicycles that people have been waiting on for a very long time, they are my priority. I'm also working on hiring a couple of full time employees, but at the moment it's just me here full time. It's not a perfect system, but it is what it is. If another builder seems like a better fit, then go that way. If you want a Geekhouse, you might just need to wait for a bit.

Gosh, I used to be so much more fun when I had a mustache.. Have a nice day!

-Marty

[thirdgenbird]

What's unfortunate, though, is that in a span of 18 hours this thread became a pile-on of negativity towards Geekhouse because Marty didn't reply to an email from a second-hand Geekhouse owner over a 5 day span that probably had him consumed with the NE Builders' Ball and other events. And now that he did respond, both in the thread and to the OP via email, the negativity is still archived for future customers to stumble upon

I think some people are taking it too seriously. Is it really a pile-on of negativity or is it an accurate representation of their email response time? Based on other posts, it sounds like this sort of response time isn't out of the ordinary in the industry and acceptable to many or most. To some it's not. The same can be said about pf30 bottom brackets, carbon fiber, or integrated seat masts. Some people love them, others will buy something different.

Geekhouse is upfront about their lead times and their communication lag, they make what appears to be a killer product, have supportive customers, and it sounds like Marty stands behind his product.

If a customer wants custom geometry, don't buy a Sachs
If a customer wants internal routing, don't buy a Peg
If a customer wants less than 24hr turnarounds on email, don't buy a geekhouse

All three products are great, but they are not always a fit for every customer. Better someone learns through reasarch than paying a deposit only to be disappointed.

[AngryScientist]

Better someone learns through reasarch than paying a deposit only to be disappointed.

correct.

[beeatnik]

Where to start might be responding before someone has a reason to work around you rather than through you? (and I think in this day and age 5 days is a long enough reason)

The tone here isn't helping IMO. "It is what it is" and "You just might need to wait a little bit"? If I used those words with my clients they wouldn't be clients for very long.

I bought a wheelset from a tall wheel builder here earlier in the year. Wheelz were a good deal and I was going to use them in a gravel race. For that reason, I didn't want to use any of my "nice(r)" wheelz. In any case, the builder never sent me a tracking number and then took a few days to get back to me after I sent him a PM. Well, I was lucky to receive my wheelz before the race (lucky that I gave myself a 3 week lead time, actually). I then emailed the dude to thank him and let him know that I loved the set. cat did not respond.

again, it's all good cos even the most responsive individuals and businesses sometimes get bogged down. I sold a bunch of jerseys a few weeks ago and the logistics of shipping them threw me for the proverbial loop ; one of the buyers had to contact me to ask about his package. I had neglected to follow up and I'm a monkey who has been trained to reply to emails minutes after I receive them.

[xjahx]

...The tone here isn't helping IMO. "It is what it is" and "You just might need to wait a little bit." If I used those words with my clients they wouldn't be clients for very long.

Are your clients second hand owners? Not looking to play a game of semantics, but I imagine clients to be quite different than 2nd hand beneficiaries, and the timeline for customer service that follows is also different.

I think his honesty is exactly what we need in this industry: clear expectations to make an informed decision.

I am still waiting for Matt Chester to come through on my full deposit, paid in 2001, for a drop bar, gravel ti 29er. From the US to Canada, from head injury to head injury, the wait continues. Plenty of frame builders deserve brutal, mud slinging threads. This, Geekhouse, with a 5+ day wait for an email response to a second hand owner is not one of them!

[simonov]

Is it really a pile-on of negativity or is it an accurate representation of their email response time?

I don't generally disagree with your comments, but IMO it is a pile-on of negativity when people take something as unrelated to the performance of the product Marty builds (email response time doesn't make bikes ride great or safe) and disregard the circumstances of the email exchange (second-hand, builders ball, big cross weekend, etc.) and insinuate that Geekhouse isn't a brand to do business with. There's just so much more to a great bike than how quickly the builder responds to email. Again, that's just my opinion.

[Rusty Luggs]

How is extortion respectful, James?

You should be ashamed of yourself .

You mean, like if he had been doper or something...?

[eippo1]

I just have to say that I'm pretty disappointed with all the pitchforks around here lately. Not just in this thread either.

[Dave B]

You mean, like if he had been doper or something...?

Dude really?


come on now, we are all better than that.

[AngryScientist]

Alright, i dont see a need to close this thread, but how about we lay this one to rest. it sounds like the OP is getting the issue squared away.

[thirdgenbird]

Edit:

Sorry, didn't see the final page.

[merlinmurph]

Wow, a guy asks an innocent question (go back and read Climb's OP, it's extremely polite, non-threatening, etc.) and a sh*tstorm brews up. Great to see the issue resolved.

And a big shout out to the local builders who joined the fray. Marty and Zanc, I wish you continued success in your businesses. I think it's fantastic to have so many excellent framebuilders in the area.

Enjoy your ride,
Murph

[joosttx]

Simonov, I like your common sense style.

I like your liking style for liking Simonov common sense style.

[AngryScientist]

OP gave the nod to close this one down. i think we're done here.