saddle woes: a solution that might help others

[Climb01742]

about two months ago i entered saddle hell. short version: raised my saddle to get into a more efficient position. soon pain followed. my sitbones killed, especially my left sitbone. tried all sorts of saddles. tweaked saddle height. nothing much worked. then...

between my rolfer and my chiro, we figured out something. my left hamstring is a lot tighter than my right. what felt like sitbone pain was actually hamstring pain. your hamstring attachs to your hip/butt right where you sit on a saddle. by raising my saddle, i was stretching a tight hammy farther than it wanted to go. and the contact point of the saddle's edge was where the hammy was screaming. (though interestingly, the biggest knot in my hammy is in the belly of the muscle, not near the attachment point, but the saddle edge was where a tight hammy "felt" the pain.)

so i had a choice. accomodate my tight hammy and lower my seat (but my new higher position felt good to the other 95% of my body and did feel more efficient.) or change my body to accommodate a better position.

so i've been working on stretching my hammy like a madman (and my chiro and rolfer have been working on both the hammy and the adhesions up at the attachment points under the butt.) the change has been noticable. i have a way to go (due to the amazing power of muscle memory to pull your body back into old positions.) but i can now ride pain-free 90% of the time (vs riding in pain 90% of the time just two weeks ago.) a great advanced hammy stretch is: while standing, place your foot on something higher than your hip (like a kitchen counter or a counter with one or two phone books on it) then lean over the raised leg. trust me, that gets your hammy. :-)

the point? look under the hood. what feels like sitbones could be something else. symptom pain and causality pain can be two very different things and places. i bet most of us have felt sitbone pain. i wonder how often that is, in fact, other things? and though this is a personal decision, rather than tweak your bike around your body, think about tweaking your body around a more optimal bike position. you could solve two "problems" at once: make your body better and your riding too. anyway...this has just helped me, it took me a long time and a lot of saddles to find it, and well, i hope it can help someone.

[531Aussie]

hmmm......good tip

at one stage a couple of years ago, my right hammy was so tight that I thought I had one leg shorter than the other, coz that what it felt like when I rode. I even ended up with an 8mm shim under one cleat. Hamstring stretching didn't do much; hip flexor stretching -- which I guess altered my pelvic tilt and/or hip rotation -- did much more

[andy mac]

heya climb i told you a few months back, this will be the best $12.97 you can spend.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572243759/102-4413686-5883303?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155


i have been hammy/calf/hip probs and it not only explains what's wrong in simple terms, it shows you how to easily work on yourself - you'll never look at a baseball the same way again.

:beer:

andy

[Climb01742]

i took your advice, andy, and got the book. it has been a huge help. i roll around on various size, er, well, balls :p every night. i wish there were more, better sources of knowledge about what happens "under hood" with our cycling-related muscles. how we sit and fit on a bike is only part of the story. a good fitter can, basically, get our bones positioned properly on a bike. but then our muscle imbalances take over and the whole thing gets real complicated.

and 531, i feel ya. i have a 7mm shim under my right cleat. and my psoais muscles have gotten some serious stretching attention, too. it's quite a puzzle, isn't it?

[GregLR]

Climb

My sports medicine doctor considers that a tight hamstring might have contributed to the recent serious tendinosis problem at the back of my right knee described in this post http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=205535#post205535

Before the doctor came up with that advice (just this afternoon, actually) I solved the problem on a long distance brevet the weekend before last by starting the ride with the saddle by 2cm lower (I know that sounds massive, but it worked - I had no problem at all).

This was after experimenting in the previous ride in the series by progressively lowering the saddle until it appeared to help. When I got home after that ride and measured the position, it was 2cm lower.

Stretching was the doctor's advice as well, so thanks for your tips on that.

I've had such trouble with the tendon that I doubt I can risk raising the saddle again at this stage. I did an easy ride on one of my other bikes last Saturday without adjusting the saddle down and felt a little soreness in the tendon that night.

Perhaps I can find the discipline to keep up an ongoing hamstring stretching regime. While I much preferred the higher saddle position, which I had on all 5 of my road bikes, riding that way for long distances recently has made me realise that it is enjoyable riding with it significantly lower as well.

Greg

[Climb01742]

greg, it is a tough call. a few weeks ago i was in such constant pain while riding that i actually dreaded getting on the bike a few mornings. so i understand your choice of changing the bike to accomodate your body. i would encourage you, though, to think about a dedicated stretching routine, then slowly -- 2mm at a time -- raising your saddle. my higher saddle height is more efficient and powerful -- at least it sure feels that way and two different fitters have watched me ride in the real world have said it looks stronger. so while i'd never say ride in pain, perhaps you can work your way toward a position that is both comfortable and powerful. good luck.

[Proxy]

greg, it is a tough call. a few weeks ago i was in such constant pain while riding that i actually dreaded getting on the bike a few mornings. so i understand your choice of changing the bike to accomodate your body. i would encourage you, though, to think about a dedicated stretching routine, then slowly -- 2mm at a time -- raising your saddle. my higher saddle height is more efficient and powerful -- at least it sure feels that way and two different fitters have watched me ride in the real world have said it looks stronger. so while i'd never say ride in pain, perhaps you can work your way toward a position that is both comfortable and powerful. good luck.

sorry for your pains - lower saddle height usually results in more power - the high saddle thing is old school - look at the guys on the track and tour, the sit super low. I will not get into all the details of my deal, but I blew out my calf @ the beginning of the year, super bad - could not walk too well, felt my calf with every stroke. gave it a few weeks and nothing improved - went to some big deal PT guy in sm and they said I would be seeing them for a long time - bad - I had a trip planned for italy (I leave a week from today) I had done some skiing a few times in January and went to longer cranks (175) but kept my measurements in check, etc – told the pt about this but they never checked my fit. was cycling in sb and decided to go into a well known shop for his opinion – x-Olympian, la tour wrench in 2000, been racing and in the business for years, etc. he looked at my calves and said in <10 seconds that my saddle was to high - could tell this from looks, that my calves are huge and my legs are not, I was not engaging my quads - flipped the bike on the trainer and he said over the next few months he wanted to lower me 2cm+!! I was floored, but he made a 1cm change and my calf pain almost went entirely away the next day - did a 5k' climb 2 days later. Now my saddle is 2cm lower and 1cm more forward and I have never felt better. Had a friend do a fit from the same guy just this past weekend and the same result – very quick cat 3, top 5 guy and he shaved almost a minute off of some ride he did yesterday – he was also blown away. Anyhow, just my experience – everyone is different. get hooked to a powertap or comp trainer to see the real results I suppose.

[Climb01742]

proxy, i get your point totally. but the variable in all our discussions is: where is your saddle to begin with? about 18 months ago, when i began this whole search to fix my biomechanical problems, my saddle was pretty low. low because i was using saddle height to deal with leg length issues. so i started low. i believe that raising my saddle over the past 18 months has gotten it into a "normal" range. i agree that super-high saddle is an old idea. this coming winter i will hook my bike up to a spinscan and do some objective experimenting. but now, speaking subjectively, and based on some advice of very good fitters, i feel good.

[Proxy]

proxy, i get your point totally. but the variable in all our discussions is: where is your saddle to begin with? about 18 months ago, when i began this whole search to fix my biomechanical problems, my saddle was pretty low. low because i was using saddle height to deal with leg length issues. so i started low. i believe that raising my saddle over the past 18 months has gotten it into a "normal" range. i agree that super-high saddle is an old idea. this coming winter i will hook my bike up to a spinscan and do some objective experimenting. but now, speaking subjectively, and based on some advice of very good fitters, i feel good.

my saddle began with were paul swift put it 5+ years ago - he is the inventor of the now lemond wedges, fit kit stuff, etc. I don't know how he does it now, but before he put it high until it caused pain and then backed off a bit - I kid you not. anyway, when I changed cranked I lowered it a bit, but did not take the entire bio into the equasion - dave did. btw, you do not ever want to have calf issues, it never occured how important a part it is. if you ever get around sb - which everyone should, stop by and check him out - its a real lbs, tons of pics and yellow jerseys - he is a great guy.

Dave Lettieri
FasTrack Bicycles
118 W. Canon Perdido
Santa Barbara, CA 93101
805-884-0210
775-248-7632 Fax
805-680-7094 Cell
fastrack9@cox.net
www.fastrackbicycles.com

[davids]

I'm occasionally experiencing something similar to this. My December fitting adjusted my position and (more relevantly) the cleat on my right shoe. I'm now set up to use my legs evenly, and to use my glutes and quads in a more balanced way. In addition to the cleat adjustment, my fitter noted that my right leg was very tight, and suggested stretches.

Shortly after I changed my position, I got jock itch. ...which I proceeded to misinterpret/ignore until it got seriously painful (I thought the discomfort was due to my new position, riding the stationary trainer, etc...) It took a lot of TLC to get rid of my lingering irritation.

A lot of times, after a ride, I'd have pain near the top inside of my leg. For a while, I thought this was still the superficial discomfort of my poor, abused skin. I finally realized it was a muscular pain associated with my new position, which no longer accommodated my overly-tight right leg muscles.

I'm trying to be better about stretching now, and I'm hopeful that over time my legs will learn to operate correctly, the right leg won't be so tight, and I can move on to other cycling issues, like figuring out my daily EPO dose...

[andy mac]

climb,

glad things are working out and that the book helped. next step, a vibration plate!

cheap version:

http://www.soloflex.com/index.asp?m=toolbar&d=wbv&sd=about&p=1

expensive version:

http://www.powerplateusa.com/research/rsupport.aspx

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11100564&whse=&topnav=&cat=4603&hierPath=111*4038*20845*

one foot on the ground, the other straight leg on the plate. best hamstring stretch ever, EVER for me - totally helped me out. when i left europe i didn't have access to a machine and the problem flared again.

you can also use it on every part of the body.

i was nearly going to drop $3k on the powerplate model they are that good but luckily saw that soloflex now offers a cheap version. i just ordered one - hasn't arrived yet.

maybe a gym in the neighborhood now has one for you to try? it's an old eastern bloc technique that the top sports people in europe are using. i was put onto it by a russian olympic gynastics coach. i'm sure it's coming to the usa soon...

:beer:

[bironi]

Climb,

Do any of your fitters go out on the road, and watch your mechanics from behind? Do they videotape you on the road?

The reason I ask, is that my old riding partner has back issues. I think it would help if he could see his position and movement from the wheel behind. He has been making adjustments to his bike fit for six years now, trying to solve his back pains. To my eye, his body rocks from his hips to nearly his shoulders. He does have very grisly leg muscles. I wonder if the guy is just wired to much more taught than most.

Glad your on the right side of 90 percent.

Byron

[Climb01742]

byron, funny you should ask about that. the last set of tweaks -- and the fit process surely is a long set of tweaks -- was done after seeing me ride outside. i'm lucky enough to have two fitters -- one of whom has all the super-duper serotta qualifications -- as riding buddies and one ride about a month ago they gave my position a thorough going over/update. so yes, yes and yes...seeing someone ride outside, over varying terrain, and riding at various effort levels is very helpful.

[bironi]

Climb.

Byron