how to really tighten down headset?

[Lewis Moon]

On my X-night, I'm having issues with getting the headset tight enough to mitigate the brake shudder (As per Zinn). It seems that I'm getting slippage when I tighten the top cap bolt down into the fork tube expander. (the expander pulls up out of the steerer). Is there a way to keep the expander from pulling out? I've tried assembly paste and I'm loath to over tighten it lest I pop the steerer.

[tuscanyswe]

Some expanders are better than others but most should work. I had one a long time ago that i couldn't make work on a fork but it worked on another fork and the replacement worked fine where the other was slipping much like yours.

[lhuerta]

U may not have the correct size expander/compression plug for ur fork....they come in different diameter sizes. Or u may not be tightening the plug sufficiently...5-8 Nm of torque should hold plug firmly, then about 1.5-2Nm max for topcap will provide sufficient compression for bearings.

[Ralph]

I don't expect the top cap to hold anything. it just pre loads the head set bearings. The stem bolts hold it all together.

But...I know you know this.

[shovelhd]

I had the same problem with the stock Felt expander plug made by FSA. I roughed up the inside of the steerer tube and used carbon paste, no more problem.

[hockeybike]

Get the specialized expander plug. About 15 bucks and works damn well.

[DfCas]

Aren't you afraid of damaging the bearings if you crank it down?

[Lewis Moon]

Aren't you afraid of damaging the bearings if you crank it down?

Not that much. FSA headsets (stock on the Ridley) are a dime a dozen on Ebay, easy to replace and it's not like you damage the headset cups.

[kramnnim]

My Ridleys came with an aluminum shim/sleeve between the plug and the steerer. I think the outside of the sleeve is textured. Might help with the grip?

[Lewis Moon]

My Ridleys came with an aluminum shim/sleeve between the plug and the steerer. I think the outside of the sleeve is textured. Might help with the grip?

My steerer is just carbon.

[donevwil]

My steerer is just carbon.

I had a similar issue with an Enve expander in an Enve 2.0. Tightened to eliminate slip and it bulged the steerer enough to make the stem creak, tightened so steerer wouldn't bulge and expander slipped. I ended up putting a single tiny drop of cyanoacrylate (crazy glue) on the center of each wedge face (face that contacts steerer I.D.) and snugged it to just below bulge. Granted I haven't had to remove the expander since, but crazy glue is pretty brittle so it shouldn't be too hard to break it free. I've since heard the Enve expander is $h!t.

[David Kirk]

I don't expect the top cap to hold anything. it just pre loads the head set bearings. The stem bolts hold it all together.

But...I know you know this.

The cap is in no way designed or intended to hold headset bearing preload. The cap sets the preload and the stem holds it.

I'd try carbon paste on the stem/steerer interface and torque the bolts to spec and I'll bet it stays put.

dave

[Ralph]

The cap is in no way designed or intended to hold headset bearing preload. The cap sets the preload and the stem holds it.

I'd try carbon paste on the stem/steerer interface and torque the bolts to spec and I'll bet it stays put.

dave

I think that's what I said.

[kramnnim]

My steerer is just carbon.

Yeah, mine too. The sleeve/shim is removable, just slides out. It's about as thick as...cardboard from a cereal box?

[David Kirk]

I think that's what I said.

It is exactly what you said and I just wanted to double down on it.

Listen to Ralph.


dave

[Ralph]

Sorry....didn't mean to come off a jerk. Have too much respect for you to do that.

[hockeybike]

ok, more detailed explanation. I've had FSA and Serotta expander plugs slip when attempting to adjust preload. Didn't like it, and never could get them to work (didn't try paste or sandpapering the steerer). Got a specialized expander plug and it totally fixed the issue. No more loose headset.

If you can't get headset play out with the plug you've got, try a better plug -- the specialized one is pretty great.

Worst case scenario, you're out 15 bucks and have the same issue.

[Ralph]

I had a similar issue with an Enve expander in an Enve 2.0. Tightened to eliminate slip and it bulged the steerer enough to make the stem creak, tightened so steerer wouldn't bulge and expander slipped. I ended up putting a single tiny drop of cyanoacrylate (crazy glue) on the center of each wedge face (face that contacts steerer I.D.) and snugged it to just below bulge. Granted I haven't had to remove the expander since, but crazy glue is pretty brittle so it shouldn't be too hard to break it free. I've since heard the Enve expander is $h!t.

I have enve 2.0 fork and expander bolt top cap set up and it works perfect. Just put a little preload on head set bearings and snug up stem bolts.

[oldpotatoe]

On my X-night, I'm having issues with getting the headset tight enough to mitigate the brake shudder (As per Zinn). It seems that I'm getting slippage when I tighten the top cap bolt down into the fork tube expander. (the expander pulls up out of the steerer). Is there a way to keep the expander from pulling out? I've tried assembly paste and I'm loath to over tighten it lest I pop the steerer.

As has been mentioned. If you are cranking on the top cap bolt hard enough to pull the expander out, you are a-cranking too hard. It's just there to load the bearings. And if the HS is adjusted, no amount of 'adjusting' will prevent fork shudder, that's something else all together, if the HS is adjusted.

Also make sure the top cap isn't hitting the top of the steerer. Maybe ya need a thin spacer on top of the stem.

[David Kirk]

Sorry....didn't mean to come off a jerk. Have too much respect for you to do that.

No worries - I didn't take it that way at all.

dave

[Bob Ross]

if the HS is adjusted, no amount of 'adjusting' will prevent fork shudder, that's something else all together, if the HS is adjusted.

Could you expound on what that "something else all together" might be? Genuinely curious.

[shovelhd]

I'm no potato, but in my experience, things that can cause shimmy that are headset and fork related are bad bearings, a loose or worn fork crown race, mismatched bearing tapers, and a cracked or damaged steerer or head tube.

[oldpotatoe]

Could you expound on what that "something else all together" might be? Genuinely curious.

Soft fork, on canti brakes, cable carrier up in headset, grabby, poorly adjusted brakes. I read 'shudder', not 'shimmy', which is something else again.

[AngryScientist]

or a noodle-ee fork.

[El Chaba]

There are a lot of stem expander plugs that are too small and wimpy to even get a decent preload adjustment. I know that they are only "supposed" to function to get the initial adjustment and the stem does the work after assembly, but in practice a wimpy stem plug will allow the setup to loosen in use even after proper assembly. I will leave it to the theoreticians as to why. You can get a more robust stem plug, like the one that Deda sells if it matches the ID of your fork, or you can do what quite a few pro team mechanics do...Clean the id of the steerer and apply JB weld....install the expander and put a nice additional bead on top of the assembled expander. take a sacrificial bolt and coat it with grease to prevent the glue from sticking to it during the curing and thread it into the adjusting hole and allow to cure for 24 hrs. Install the fork and never have a problem again. I can't count how many troublesome setups I have fixed in this way. Thanks to the old Communitat Valenciana team mechanics from whom I first saw this technique back at about the turn of the century...

[Michon]

I tried paste too and it didn't work - I used emory cloth to rough up the outside of the aluminum and then the paste stuck like glue

[donevwil]

I have enve 2.0 fork and expander bolt top cap set up and it works perfect. Just put a little preload on head set bearings and snug up stem bolts.

Tried it ~100 times (OK maybe not 100), ended up with either a loose headset or a creaking stem. I imagine not all Enve steerer I.D.'s and expanders are created equal.

[tuscanyswe]

Tried it ~100 times (OK maybe not 100), ended up with either clunking headset or creaking stem. I imagine not all Enve steerer I.D.'s and expanders are created equal.

No they are not. Not even the outer dia as i had one replaced because it was too large to fit the headset. I suspect this is something that happens to all manufacturers tho. Nothing is 100% correct all the time even with good qc i guess.