Bike communting feelings of inadequacy and technological inferiority

[schwa86]

The other day on my commute, I have had the following experience:

I commute to Boston from the west, along Beacon Street mostly, pretty busy, but also reasonably wide in most parts I am on, with a bike lane for most of the route. Its also a little hilly.

The other day, I was having real trouble keeping up with the guy ahead of me. He looked in OK shape, was riding a similar hybrid-ish bike as me, but was wearing cords and dress shoes with toe clips. I'd catch up to him, we'd stop at a light, and then he'd get out ahead of me (he jumped the lights some) -- it would take me a couple blocks to catch up. Very frustrating, left me feeling like I was in WAY worse shape than I'd have expected.

The third time, I pulled up alongside him, looked down and noticed the very large front hub and the battery pack attached to the seat tube.

So I have my explanation, and I have been spending some time thinking about it. I think I generally prefer people on bikes to cars, and if battery assist gets them out there, then I guess I am ok with it. But I am a little concerned that we are going to wind up with a bunch of people that are not that skilled at riding in traffic with a false sense of how well they can handle their bikes.

[pbarry]

Ha-ha, you are obviously in way better shape than the lithium battery enhanced commuter. :beer:

Ebikes will get regulated like motorcycles if the numbers increase greatly on the road and they prove to be a genuine nussance. I think it's a fad, at least until oil gets back up to $100 a barrel. Mopeds are their half siblings,
and, where are they now?

[Ken Robb]

Just because a person has a motor boost should we assume he lacks bike handling skills?

[Lanternrouge]

A lot of the time I can tell when someone has a motor because it looks like they are not putting in enough effort to go as fast as they are. Plus, I am used to not being fast anyway, so it doesn't bother me as much. My main concern about motorized bikes is people going fast but without paying attention. For some reason, that makes me think they are just like a lot of the drivers out there.

[weisan]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1815256&postcount=62

[weaponsgrade]

A non-bike friend recently got an e-bike. I took it out for a spin. I was impressed. I could see myself getting one to haul the kids around.

[Jgrooms]

Why would having a battery/motor have any effect on one's ability to handle a bike or ride in traffic?

I ride a motorcycle & working at those speeds helps my cycling skills tremendously. I would assume an e bike has similar effect.

Might want to let go of the 'competitive' commute thing a bit?

[mg2ride]

I get what the OP is saying and I suspect he means "less experienced" in general.

I talked to a avid mountain biker recently and he feels the same way about all these folks showing up to the trails with drop bar bikes. They just don't handle the obstacles and trails as well.

[oldpotatoe]

The other day on my commute, I have had the following experience:

I commute to Boston from the west, along Beacon Street mostly, pretty busy, but also reasonably wide in most parts I am on, with a bike lane for most of the route. Its also a little hilly.

The other day, I was having real trouble keeping up with the guy ahead of me. He looked in OK shape, was riding a similar hybrid-ish bike as me, but was wearing cords and dress shoes with toe clips. I'd catch up to him, we'd stop at a light, and then he'd get out ahead of me (he jumped the lights some) -- it would take me a couple blocks to catch up. Very frustrating, left me feeling like I was in WAY worse shape than I'd have expected.

The third time, I pulled up alongside him, looked down and noticed the very large front hub and the battery pack attached to the seat tube.

So I have my explanation, and I have been spending some time thinking about it. I think I generally prefer people on bikes to cars, and if battery assist gets them out there, then I guess I am ok with it. But I am a little concerned that we are going to wind up with a bunch of people that are not that skilled at riding in traffic with a false sense of how well they can handle their bikes.

I'm sure motorcycle drivers think the same as those who ride scooters....maybe not.

I'm in the who-cares camp. If they want to ride an electric scooter around, so what. I'm not going to ever own one, ride one, work on one.

But sure don't feel 'inadequate' or think thoughts of 'technological inferiority'.

[Peter P.]

People tend to view or stereotype those who ride mopeds or e-bikes as traffic law flaunters. Lump me in with that bunch as that's been my observation.

That's why I'll assume that those operators will lack the skills of riding in traffic as the OP is assuming.

Think about it; you've got a vehicle that has all the benefits (except health of course) of a bicycle without the legal restrictions of faster motor vehicles. They tend to behave as many bicycle riders who also flaunt vehicle laws.

[AngryScientist]

hey for every e-bike that's out there, that's one less 3k pound car you're sharing the road with.

i am a fan of e-bikes and the potential they open up for personal transportation. let's face it, pedaling a bike just doesnt work for everyone, nor is it something everyone is interested in. when commuting to work and it's 80+ degrees out and a few hills between home and the office, on a pedal bike, sweating in that scenario is unavoidable; but maybe with an e-bike, not taking the family car becomes an option?

[christian]

As long as you stay off my mountain bike trails, you can e-bike to your heart's content.

[fuzzalow]

Yup, every e-bike is an aid and abetment to the presence and pervasiveness of two wheel transportation. Nuthin' wrong with that. The world looks better on two wheels and the more people discover that seductive truth, the better it works out for us as bicyclists.

In the war against car culture, it is an issue of perception which thereby makes it a numbers game. Bicyclists will be forever cast as aberrations and outsiders - until such time as a tipping point is achieved in the public perception that we are not. And that will only happen when there are the participation numbers that bring us closer to the mainstream.

BTW, I have observed riding a Brompton as a bicyclist has a drastically different response and perception from pedestrians to that in riding a road bike as a cyclist. No change insofar as motorists who are usually oblivious and indifferent to whichever mode of two-wheeled conveyance. IMO the worst and most ineffective way to further acceptance of alternative transport with bikes is to use cyclists as the exemplar of the practice & lifestyle. We cyclists have really shot ourselves in the foot by poisoning the well of public perception about cycling. And when we did that we figuratively pulled all other two-wheeled transport into the blast radius with us.

Anyway, onwards, upwards. Bring on the e-bikes, the more the better.

[Gsinill]

Next time just make sure the guy you are trying to keep up with got his battery pack from @guylimey

[benb]

Trying to ride fast on a commute is one of the silliest things you can do on your bicycle, let it go and just be happy you're not stuck in traffic in the car.

[txcid05]

I live in the country and am fortunate enough to bike commute almost every day. I like riding fast, just so I can get some extra training in. In the last year I've passed one person on a bike and he looked drunk was likely wishing he had an ebike. He sounded winded! :beer:

[martl]

one of our club training routes ends on an 8km straight which is slightly descending. Sometimes we encounter some poor sod on a 45km/h-limited 2-stroke engined scooter... (recipe for ultimate humilation: coast until you get noticed, then overtake with a smile)


but regardless of speed, whenever i commute by bike, i'm having a feeling of superiority:

https://mucradblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/ueberlegen.jpg

[93legendti]

I worry more about some of the local racers in their kits blowing thru red lights, crossing train tracks as the lights are flashing, refusing to ride to the right of the road, or 2x2 (both required by local laws) and on our severely potholed roads refusing to say "on your left" as they pass.

Skill doesn't always equal high IQ.

[Vinci]

I don't mind the electric bikes. Whatever it takes to get people around. Admittedly, I do still find it funny to see them pedaling those heavy monsters once the battery dies...

I don't care for the gas-powered bikes, though. They go just fast enough that I sometimes get stuck behind them and have to ride in their 2-stroke smoke cloud until I can get an opening to pass. Very annoying.

[redearedslider5]

e-bikes don't generally bother me. they used to until i met an older gent who told me that the 'electric safety net' made him more confident to go out, otherwise he'd be too scared that he wouldn't make it home. like others have said, whatever gets people out there.

[Gsinill]

one of our club training routes ends on an 8km straight which is slightly descending. Sometimes we encounter some poor sod on a 45km/h-limited 2-stroke engined scooter... (recipe for ultimate humilation: coast until you get noticed, then overtake with a smile)


but regardless of speed, whenever i commute by bike, i'm having a feeling of superiority:

https://mucradblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/ueberlegen.jpg

Ah, the Mittlerer Ring, I do miss that city!!

[classtimesailer]

Just because a person has a motor boost should we assume he lacks bike handling skills?

yes.

[classtimesailer]

hey for every e-bike that's out there, that's one less 3k pound car you're sharing the road with.

i am a fan of e-bikes and the potential they open up for personal transportation. let's face it, pedaling a bike just doesnt work for everyone, nor is it something everyone is interested in. when commuting to work and it's 80+ degrees out and a few hills between home and the office, on a pedal bike, sweating in that scenario is unavoidable; but maybe with an e-bike, not taking the family car becomes an option?

Sure. But they should build a separate path for e-bikes.

[Quilts]

I don't mind e-bikes either. Do I think they're kind of silly? Sure. But I'm happy to see people out on a ride instead of adding another car to the road.

[fishwhisperer]

my neighborhood has some really steep hills in it, and when i see a mom or dad rolling up one on an electric xtracycle with two kids and a bunch of groceries onboard i'm pretty chuffed, actually. would much rather see that than another car.

[oldpotatoe]

Sure. But they should build a separate path for e-bikes.

Most places won't even build thoroughfares for bikes, so don't expect another one for e-bikes.

[Netdewt]

Every time I get passed by squeaky wobbly wheel rusty chain hybrid running shorts guy - I feel like a snail. Haha, he doesn't have a battery.

[AJM100]

Next time catch him and go with the ole pump in the e-wheel . . .

Will make you feel immediately superior - followed by huge feelings of guilt and possibly arrest . . .

[rwsaunders]

If I were wearing cords and dress shoes on my way to work I'd be on an e-bike too. Poor gent probably doesn't have access to a shower and his coworkers chipped in for the bike in order to avoid the BO conversation with their supervisor. :cool:

[classtimesailer]

An e-bike sharing the road with cars and bikes is fine. A motor bike on the MUP is bad.

[Tin Turtle]

Riding in China for a months on end I share the road with lots of e-bikes, e-trikes, motorized trikes, and every other thing. The bike lanes are a lot bigger then here, but there is one thing I can say for sure. If someone sucks riding a bicycle they suck piloting an e-bike. And lots of people do. Generally though they tend to wack into vehicles as opposed to fellow cyclists. I always position myself so they are to the outside of the bike lane at the intersection and all is good. Think like a goose, move in a flock so you are more visible and let them pick off the fat ones.

They are great to draft off of too.

[Ti Designs]

Just because a person has a motor boost should we assume he lacks bike handling skills?

This is one of those things where a statement makes sense, but simple logic - the "you would think..." scenario doesn't happen.

An e-bike is simply a bike with an electric motor to assist the rider, you would think there's no reason for any difference in handling skills. It's simple logic, it works on individual cases - I ride a bike, I switch to an e-bike, I have the same handling skills...

The failure in this case is on the larger scale, there's no more learning process for a whole generation of e-bikers. Bike handling skills don't develop as they learn how to ride, they get on and seconds later they're up to speed. The common thinking here is "they'll learn", but again I have to question the learning process here. People are lazy, they don't want to put in the effort to learn anything they don't have to learn (I've never understood this).

Question for you: If there were no driving test to get a license, what would it be like out on the roads? There's no competence test for cyclists, but on the bright side it's the most underpowered vehicle out there.

[benb]

There is no real learning process for road cyclists either. They go out, buy an expensive bike, pedal it mostly in a straight line and assume they're experts and tell everyone they are an expert.

Some learn by absorption, some learn cause they ride MTB or motorycles or something else where skills and/or training matter more, lots have misconceptions about how things work, some get forced to learn for racing (but IMO it's not 100% necessary), etc..

This thread is all about condescension and such.. e-bike users have just as much right to the road as cyclists and there is no reason to believe they're going to be much more stupid than cyclists are.

[classtimesailer]

This thread is all about condescension and such.. e-bike users have just as much right to the road as cyclists and there is no reason to believe they're going to be much more stupid than cyclists are.

A cyclist needs to spend a great deal of time on a bike to ride 25 mph. In that time, she learns how dangerous it is to go that fast while sharing the road. An e-bike user buys a bike and pushes a button to become a danger to others.

[benb]

A cyclist needs to spend a great deal of time on a bike to ride 25 mph. In that time, she learns how dangerous it is to go that fast while sharing the road. An e-bike user buys a bike and pushes a button to become a danger to others.

Says who? Wait till the carnage before complaining about it...

[pdmtong]

who here has actually tried an e-bike?

yes, I LOVE the idea of commuting to the office and not being all sweaty.

BUT, how many of you are used to going 25mph on the streets you ride. Maybe even 30mph?

Being used to life at 15-18 the same roads at 25 look a lot different.
Safe and immediate stopping becomes an issue.

The bike handling skills for e-bike users better come, else Darwin will be again proven correct.

[Ti Designs]

There is no real learning process for road cyclists either. They go out, buy an expensive bike, pedal it mostly in a straight line and assume they're experts and tell everyone they are an expert.

Yeh, good point.

[bironi]

It has been a few years, but I used to be annoyed by a women riding an e-bike her husband passed on to her. She would overtake me too closely on one of the steeper hills in and out of Seattle frequently. She never announced her presence, and frankly it was very irritating.

As far as bike handling skills, the e-bikies I have seen don't resemble racing bikes in the least. I think a racing bike is the best option for those concerned with bike handling on roads. I know there are cyclists that could make any bike look easy to ride (Sagan), but for newbie commuters - not so much.

[Ti Designs]

Trying to ride fast on a commute is one of the silliest things you can do on your bicycle, let it go and just be happy you're not stuck in traffic in the car.

My commute is often to a coaching session (getting paid to ride a bike doesn't suck). On the way back from a session a girl on a Vespa passed me, so I got on her wheel. We were heading up Mass Ave and keeping up with traffic, I could see her looking back in the mirror to see if I was still there. She noticed that the only time I struggled was when she slowed, then accelerated back up to her cruising speed, so she made a game of it. All the way out to Arlington she was backing off, then rolling back on throttle, while I was back there doing acceleration intervals to stay on. At Arlington center she turned toward Winchester, I don't live in that direction but for some reason I went with her. I sprinted at the town line, took it by a few bike lengths, then turned for home. I blew up taking the sprint, there was no way I was going to stay on her wheel, but she didn't know that - the key is knowing when to turn off...

[fuzzalow]

I blew up taking the sprint, there was no way I was going to stay on her wheel, but she didn't know that - the key is knowing when to turn off...

HaHa! And if you are the guy trailing behind, that's how you know the guy ahead of you has "done blowed up".

[drewellison]

Skip the whole eBike or battery assist thing. Go straight to this.

http://gizmodo.com/watch-this-man-break-records-riding-207-mph-on-a-rocket-1656620557