OT: In lieu of a Sportwagen

[PeregrineA1]

Given the current debacle with the TDI J/GSW and the fact that I was days from pulling the trigger.....

What would you get to fulfill that role? Great mileage, handling, looks, utility, etc.

Given the unknowns of the potential fix-effect on mileage, durability, drive ability, etc. it MAY make sense to look at other options.

[shovelhd]

You don't have a choice as long as the stop sale order is in effect.

The only thing remotely close is a Prius V.

[Louis]

My '14 Subie Impreza gets 35 mpg / tank. 2/3 of that is no-rush hour highway. The handling is surprisingly good. My only complaint is that the engine isn't quite as peppy as I would like. In retrospect, given how good the gas mileage has been, I probably should have gotten a WRX. I'd say it's worth your while to test-drive one.

http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/subaru/impreza/2013/oem/2013_subaru_impreza_4dr-hatchback_20i-sport-limited-pzev_rq_oem_1_500.jpg

[PeregrineA1]

Forgot one of my key requirements. A manual transmission.

A Prius is not remotely an interesting car to drive. They are a wonderful car, we had one. Well put together, but boring.

[shovelhd]

I hear you. My JSW is a 6MT. You have very few options.

[Tony Edwards]

CPO 3-series wagon, if you are lucky enough to track one down (the 6MT models are vanishingly rare, but affordable if you can find one). There are also some used 5-series wagons around in 6MT. The mileage won't be as good as a diesel VW, but since those have become plutonium in the marketplace it may end up being a better deal. Alternatively, used Subie Legend GT or WRX.

[Ken Robb]

We love our 2014 Mazda 3 sedan. 2.5 L with 6 speed automatic. It has regular and sport modes plus full manual overide and paddle shifters. It is the first automatic I have owned since 1985 but it's so good I don't miss a manual at all. OTOH Mazda does offer delightful 6 speed manuals too. The engine is wonderful and plenty peppy. Ride,handling,braking, steering are very Teutonic.
Our sedan has split/fold-down rear seats so it holds a surprising amount but you would probably want the hatchback/4-door or one of their CX-5 models. Mazda 6 sedans are bigger but not available as a hatchback here. 14,000 miles, 2 oil changes/inspections; first one a gift from our dealer and the second cost me about $50. 34mpg average on regular gas.

I was toying with the idea of trading my MINI Cooper S for a GTI but I don't think I would buy anything from VW until we see how their mess ends up.

[Ken Robb]

As a 30 year member, board member, chief driving instructor for several chapters of BMWCCA I have come to agree with my good friend who owns an independent BMW repair/restoration center. When asked he recommends people NOT buy any BMW built since about 2000 unless it has a good warranty. They are money pits. Since all German cars use components from the same suppliers I suppose Audi, M-B. Porsche have similar problems/failures.

[AngryScientist]

as usual i agree with Ken above. a mazda or perhaps a subaru are the closest current production options.

i also concur that BMW has lost its way. my line of demarcation is the abandonment of the I6 engine in favor of small turbo motors.

you wont find me giving up my RWD, manual, naturally aspirated, in-line engine car anytime soon.

[Onno]

Volvo is supposed to be going "green", with various AWD hybrids coming out (including the V60) in the next few years. But I imagine they will be nearly double the price of the Sportwagen.

[palincss]

You don't have a choice as long as the stop sale order is in effect.

The only thing remotely close is a Prius V.

The 3 series BMW wagon is very similar in dimensions and feel, and it can be had with a diesel. There is, of course, a bit of a price difference.

[shovelhd]

The 3 series BMW wagon is very similar in dimensions and feel, and it can be had with a diesel. There is, of course, a bit of a price difference.

A remotely similar price.

[Tickdoc]

I feel your pain. Lots of nice wagons out there, just not many here available for sale.

I still have my 2001 525 sportwagon. My son inherits it here in about 5 months.

Such a great car. I haven't cared for the brand since about 2004.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of subarus because they seem clunky and unrefined...at least my wife's outback is.

I'd buy a c class wagon in a heartbeat if it were available here.
I'd buy a jaguar wagon based on looks alone....if it weren't a jaguar.
I'd buy an e class wagon if I could find a decent one for a decent price.
I'd buy a Ferrari wagon if.....well, You know.
I may buy a Volvo wagon....maybe?


Best of luck.

[Louis]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of subarus because they seem clunky and unrefined...at least my wife's outback is.


This may be true, but I think only if you're comparing them to others that cost twice as much.

[p nut]

Why not a gas JSW/GSW? They still get good MPG.

[Tickdoc]

This may be true, but I think only if you're comparing them to others that cost twice as much.
Not comparing them, just a personal gripe. And they're not twice as much when they're used :D

[echappist]

as usual i agree with Ken above. a mazda or perhaps a subaru are the closest current production options.

i also concur that BMW has lost its way. my line of demarcation is the abandonment of the I6 engine in favor of small turbo motors.

you wont find me giving up my RWD, manual, naturally aspirated, in-line engine car anytime soon.

http://static.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/images/Auto/izmo/331758/2012_cadillac_cts_wagon_sideview.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/cars.aol.co.uk/media/2012/02/jaguarxfsportbrake1.jpg

it's not a sportwagon, it's a sportbrake ;)

Volvo is supposed to be going "green", with various AWD hybrids coming out (including the V60) in the next few years. But I imagine they will be nearly double the price of the Sportwagen.

you can get a CPO V60 with about 20k miles for under 28k; AWD for slightly over 30k. Only down side is the small cargo capacity.

Rumour has it AWD with Drive-E (the 2.0T that gets 240 hp and 28/37 city/highway) will be available in two years. Volvo also unveiled a V90 estate concept, though the proper moniker should be shooting brake concept. rumour is that this will morph into the wagon for the 80/90 platform.

http://teknikensvarld.se/wp-content/uploads/import/images/global/webb-tv/2014/03/05/volvo-concept-estate.jpg

[Louis]

Not comparing them, just a personal gripe. And they're not twice as much when they're used :D

Some time toward the end of my Integra's life the Acura dealership gave me a "Sportwagon" something or other as a loaner when they were doing some work on mine. The only thing "sporty" about that thing was the name. Yes, it was way better quality, fit, finish, etc compared to the Subie I bought to replace that Acura, but there's no way in the world I would have bought the Acura wagon over the Subaru. There just wasn't enough there to make me want to spend the extra $$,$$$. I would have paid quite a bit for another Acura 2-door hot hatch, but not for a pokey station wagon / family truckster.

[palincss]

A remotely similar price.

It's only a factor of two, how bad could that be?

[AJM100]

I know same VW family, but the Audi A3 hatchback models in 4cyl 2.0T are nice . . . fun to drive, handle well, peppy and surprisingly roomy.

[ergott]

Why not a gas JSW/GSW? They still get good MPG.

Exactly. It's not like the car isn't offered with a gas engine. That's what I would do if I could. The layout of the JSW is still has no competition in it's class of room/price/handling/etc.

[Climb01742]

Used Volvo V50 is a surprisingly interesting option, and they can be found with AWD if that is of interest.

[sharprace]

Used Volvo V50 is a surprisingly interesting option, and they can be found with AWD if that is of interest.

Seconded. You can find a mid 2000's V50 with a T5 package and AWD and end up with a hot little wagon with a 6spd manual. Alternatively, you can go bigger and find a couple of V70R's on the inter webs, but I've never been able to get better than 29mpg in one.

Its kind of sad that the manual transmission is going the way of the Dodo...

[Schmed]

...i also concur that BMW has lost its way. my line of demarcation is the abandonment of the I6 engine in favor of small turbo motors.

you wont find me giving up my RWD, manual, naturally aspirated, in-line engine car anytime soon.

As a 30 year member, board member, chief driving instructor for several chapters of BMWCCA I have come to agree with my good friend who owns an independent BMW repair/restoration center. When asked he recommends people NOT buy any BMW built since about 2000 unless it has a good warranty. They are money pits. Since all German cars use components from the same suppliers I suppose Audi, M-B. Porsche have similar problems/failures.

I was a die-hard BMW fan, but am reluctantly in agreement with the above. I've had some great ones (330i ZHP, 2006 330i, 2010 335i M Sport, plus older ones). Loved them all, but am about to order an Audi. Our X3 is great, but fairly soft brakes. Shopping for new BMWs and nothing really stands out. Wagons are WAY too pricey. Easy to find a $55k diesel wagon. But no MT anymore. :mad:

I'd find an older 328i with low miles and 6MT and take great care of it.

Or... Mini Cooper? Mazda 3 sounds good, too.

[oldpotatoe]

I know same VW family, but the Audi A3 hatchback models in 4cyl 2.0T are nice . . . fun to drive, handle well, peppy and surprisingly roomy.

And $10,000 more than gas JSW/GSW...

[fuzzalow]

A few years ago when we were considering a new wagon the Caddilac was almost purchased. This in a family that had never owned anything but foreign cars for both of our entire lifetimes of driving. Well, I owned a Fiat once and maybe calling that a car was a misnomer. :)

Manual transmission in an American made sport wagon. Remarkable. I'd bet they sold 2 or 3 of those at most! Heck, even visiting BMW dealers there was barely a manual transmission car to be found anywhere on their inventory database - it had to be ordered.

I/we have never owned an automatic transmission car. I've tried to teach Mrs. fuzz how to heel and toe a gearbox but she wasn't interested. Now we live in a place where owning a car is unnecessary. But boy, I sure wanted to buy the Caddy wagon, it was hot!

[DRZRM]

Though I'm not so pleased with VW right now, I'd second looking at the gas JSW/GSW. We have a 2013, saved about $4k off of diesel pricing, and the manual is fun to drive...if a bit underpowered. I bet the whole brand debacle may drive prices down across the line, if you can find one.

[dawgie]

As others said, the gas powered Sportwagen with manual transmission could be a good option but good luck finding one. That is what I tried to get when I bought my Golf 2.5 and they are extremely hard to find. My dealer wasn't interested in finding me one, and the nearest dealer I could locate on-line was several states away.

Although I love driving my Golf, it has several issues. You could not buy a Golf 2.5 manual with four doors when I got mine, and I have found 2 doors to be a real hassle when loading gear. Perhaps that has changed with their new gas turbo engine. I would not rule out a 4-door Golf or GTI with gas engine if you are not totally bummed on VW. The hatchback holds an impressive amount of gear and it is a very fun car to drive, more so than the Sportwagen.

I sort of wish that I had bought a Honda Fit. Altho the performance cannot compare to the Golf, it is a great little car for hauling bikes and other gear and gets great gas mileage. My wife drives a Honda CRV, which is very practical and gets reasonable mileage, but it is a total bore to drive -- worse than a minivan in my view.

I share others views of the Prius being a bore to drive, and I am not crazy about the styling and interior. My biggest reason for passing on the Prius is that its storage capacity is not very impressive. However, I have concluded that a hybrid makes the most sense for gas mileage if you live and drive mostly in the city. Nothing compares to a hybrid for driving in traffic because you get stuck at red lights and slow downs so often.

[geeter]

I have a 2010 prius and love it. I've put 90k on it without a hitch. I even have three car seats in the back currently :-)......

Mileage is as advertised, and it's very reasonably priced. I lusted after a jsw tdi after i sold my mkv GTI (stage 1 tune, so much fun, before three small kids), but went with the prius and have been satisfied. It's not a vw in terms of handling and interior but it also is one of the most reliable cars in the modem era.

You might be spot on with the Fit though. I think it's the best bang for the buck for mpg, storage, and overall value. Revs up a bit high at highway cruising speed hough.



Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Avincent52]

How's this work for you?

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/1654593_10204467025788044_5961955178047574097_o.jp g

A BMW e46 325iTouring, with a 5speed, and the ZSP sports package. It's also been upgraded with an M3 Steering wheel, a ZHP short shift lever, a Rogue Engineering exhaust and Pirielli P-Zeros. While it's a 2002, it's had the cooling system, the Vanos, Valve Cover Gasket, the fuel pump and front and rear brakes, crankcase sensor, and within the next month a full suspension refresh including Koni FSD shocks and Eibach lowering springs.

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing I'd rather drive given that I often haul four adult-size humans, a golden retriever, a load of luggage, and/or a bike.

This is my second E46 wagon with a 5 speed and the sports package, but they're very rare. I waited for a year to find this one which had a few more miles than I hoped, but it was in great condition and the price allowed me to do all this preventative maintenance.

You might also look for an E91 BMW Touring. I prefer the E46 body style--it's more attractive and just smaller and simpler--but I'd rather have an E91 with a 6 speed than just about any other wagon this side of an AMG or an Audi S4.

The irony? Go to Europe--Germany, Italy, France--and my "dream car" (a sporty BMW/Mercedes/Audi wagon with a manual transmission) is as common as a Ford Explorer is here.

[p nut]

...
You might be spot on with the Fit though. I think it's the best bang for the buck for mpg, storage, and overall value. Revs up a bit high at highway cruising speed hough.



Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Yup, I've got 120k miles on a 1st gen Fit. I spit shine it every once in a while, change the oil and put gas in. Fun to drive, for what it is. Bit loud and does rev up high on the freeway; however, it's pretty typical of a 4-banger Honda.

The new HRV might be worth checking out from a utility stand point. Magic seats work awesome in the Fit and I'm sure it's even more useful in the bigger HRV.

[pjm]

Mazda 3 five door hatch with the slick six-speed manual. Great mileage, fun to drive, one of Car & Driver's Ten Best.

Supposedly Honda will have a five door hatch version of the next Civic which they promise will be more fun to drive. The previous version had gone a little soft (think Corolla).

[bart998]

Go and talk to your VW dealer. I'll bet to ones on the lot no longer have the errant software and probably can be had for a deal.

[shovelhd]

Go and talk to your VW dealer. I'll bet to ones on the lot no longer have the errant software and probably can be had for a deal.

Incorrect. You can buy a gasser, though.

[dgauthier]

Forgot one of my key requirements. A manual transmission.

Are we saying it doesn't have to be a diesel? A Ford Focus ST manual hatchback seems to check all the boxes.

Edit: Scratch that. A Golf sport wagon has a max of 66.5 cu. ft. of cargo space. A Focus hatchback, 44.8 cu. ft, similar to the Mazda 3. I see a wagon is a whole different world compared to a hatchback.

I don't know if getting a killer deal on a gas powered VW is such a great idea. VW could very well vanish from the North American market for a few years.

[MattTuck]

I've read that next year the M3 is going to be offered in a wagon format.

[zap]

Our 3 Merc's have proven to be exceptionally reliable....so if someone killed our E500 wagon, we would purchase another Merc wagon.

[Mikej]

Our 3 Merc's have proven to be exceptionally reliable....so if someone killed our E500 wagon, we would purchase another Merc wagon.

Practically the same price point...and efficiency. I honestly don't get the vw fanboys, or German fanboys in general. Guess I can't afford it. Have you guys seen the Toyota VEnza?

[makoti]

Love my Mazda 3. Lots of room, fun to drive. decent mileage, though not what I'd like from a car its size. Might be the way I drive it. ;) It's 11 years old, going strong with 131K miles.

[bthornt]

Lots of room, manual transmission available, good mpg. I have a 2015 Fit with the 6 speed manual, LX version. I'm averaging about 32 mpg, and I thrash the hell out of it. I paid slightly more than 15,000 for it off the lot. It isn't perfect - as noted above, the engine noise is pretty intrusive on the interstate, but it's more a reflection of the gearing than the engine.

In addition to being quite roomy for such a small vehicle, it's also has a lot of choices as how to configure that roominess. Lots of room in the back seat, too.

[Tickdoc]

Your post prompted me to open the eBay motors app and type in just "wagon".

I found you about 10 nice ones to choose from.

It's a worthy exercise to see the awesomeness that wagons used to be here in this country, from woody wagons that looked like they could carry FDR to a country house, to some badass 50's Chevys, and then up to the sixties where you could had a lot of wagon variety to choose from.

My favorite of today cars being an amg mercedes e class with low miles ( but still expensive) I think your real world mpg would be in the mid to high teens, but it would be a romp to scoot around in.

First real world choice for me would be a newish low miles Mercedes e350 wagon in drop dead gorgeous black. I currently drive an e350 sedan and it has been a great car, and the wagon version would make life easier at times.

first runner up is a nice low miles Cadillac. I would seriously consider it because it is very luxurious, serviceable, decent gas mileage, and will be miles above any vr/Subie/etc in refinement.

Also plenty of nice bmw, Volvo, and VW wagons to choose from.

[jlyon]

2016 Mini Clubman....

I like the Honda HR-V but it is quite slow unless you get the stick shift or wait for it to get the new 1.5 Honda turbo engine.

[buddybikes]

2008 Saab 9-5, fits everything plus the dogs. 3 kayaks 3 bikes. Manual transmission, one of very few imported. Can still get parts for it, hope it lasts because I don't know what I'll do. Only 80K miles on it, so hopefully I have years of enjoyment.
1697907695

[aingeru]

Over here (Europe), when you can afford a good car you go for a german car...

[Ken Robb]

Lots of room, manual transmission available, good mpg. I have a 2015 Fit with the 6 speed manual, LX version. I'm averaging about 32 mpg, and I thrash the hell out of it.

You have to thrash the hell out of it to keep up with traffic. :)

[Ken Robb]

Your post prompted me to open the eBay motors app and type in just "wagon".

I found you about 10 nice ones to choose from.

It's a worthy exercise to see the awesomeness that wagons used to be here in this country, from woody wagons that looked like they could carry FDR to a country house, to some badass 50's Chevys, and then up to the sixties where you could had a lot of wagon variety to choose from.

My favorite of today cars being an amg mercedes e class with low miles ( but still expensive) I think your real world mpg would be in the mid to high teens, but it would be a romp to scoot around in.

First real world choice for me would be a newish low miles Mercedes e350 wagon in drop dead gorgeous black. I currently drive an e350 sedan and it has been a great car, and the wagon version would make life easier at times.

first runner up is a nice low miles Cadillac. I would seriously consider it because it is very luxurious, serviceable, decent gas mileage, and will be miles above any vr/Subie/etc in refinement.

Also plenty of nice bmw, Volvo, and VW wagons to choose from.

I wonder if searching for "wagen" would uncover more cars for sale since that's how the Germans spell it.

[oldpotatoe]

Incorrect. You can buy a gasser, though.

Yup, thread title should be 'in lieu of a diesel sportwagen'...gas JSW/GSW....

[PeregrineA1]

It doesn't have to be diesel or German. That being said, the styling of the German brands I find to be superior to the Asian brands. I do a lot of highway miles, though being in So Cal those miles generally start or finish in some form of heavy traffic. A 400 mile day is not unusual, with 6-7 hours of meetings scattered throughout. Thus the desire for excellent mileage.

I have a 2000 F250 with a 7.3L diesel and have come to love the torque. That and 18 mpg, which is not bad if one is driving a 6500 pound vehicle. It is stupid for just me and a bike though. Perfect for towing the boat or camping, etc....

I've had an E and C MBZ and 3 and 5 series BMW's, driven a JSW, thus my original selection. Of them all the 3 was the best, but the earlier discussion about recent models vs the older in line six, etc is a point well taken. Not sure I want to put 50k a year on a 15+ year old car! since I'm already doing that to my truck.

The Focus ST is now on the list as is the Mazda 3. Now I need to look at the practicality of getting the bike in with minimal hassle. All those highway miles mean I get to ride in many parts of the state....and it is a requirement to get some blood flowing after all the windshield time.

[Jake January]

Having spent a few weeks wandering the EU this past summer. I was struck by the plethora of these sportwagons! Seems like all the manufacturers are jumping on board.

Me I'd rather have a nicely restored 2ch.
http://a8.img.v4.skyrock.net/6440/65846440/pics/2918356805_small_1.jpg

Slow down and enjoy the breeze!:beer:

[572cv]

Having spent a few weeks wandering the EU this past summer. I was struck by the plethora of these sportwagons! Seems like all the manufacturers are jumping on board.

Me I'd rather have a nicely restored 2ch.
http://a8.img.v4.skyrock.net/6440/65846440/pics/2918356805_small_1.jpg

Slow down and enjoy the breeze!:beer:

Hey! That's me ! :beer:

[palincss]

Practically the same price point...and efficiency. I honestly don't get the vw fanboys, or German fanboys in general.

The Merc E350 wagon is practically the same price point as the Golf wagon?
:confused:

Only if you're talking about government budgets, where a mere $30,000 is lost in the rounding.

[Mikej]

The Merc E350 wagon is practically the same price point as the Golf wagon?
:confused:

Only if you're talking about government budgets, where a mere $30,000 is lost in the rounding.

Sorry, I didn't hit the sarcasm font...

[MattTuck]

as usual i agree with Ken above. a mazda or perhaps a subaru are the closest current production options.

i also concur that BMW has lost its way. my line of demarcation is the abandonment of the I6 engine in favor of small turbo motors.

you wont find me giving up my RWD, manual, naturally aspirated, in-line engine car anytime soon.

Just another note on this. It isn't like BMW decided this in a vacuum, and some how lost their way. They had regulatory pressures that pushed them in this direction.

Hard to fault them for obeying the law...

[JMacII]

My '14 Subie Impreza gets 35 mpg / tank. 2/3 of that is no-rush hour highway. The handling is surprisingly good. My only complaint is that the engine isn't quite as peppy as I would like. In retrospect, given how good the gas mileage has been, I probably should have gotten a WRX. I'd say it's worth your while to test-drive one.



http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/subaru/impreza/2013/oem/2013_subaru_impreza_4dr-hatchback_20i-sport-limited-pzev_rq_oem_1_500.jpg


I have a WRX. Great car to drive. Does not get good gas mileage. And not sure I'd want to put 100s of miles of highway driving on it (loud).

For family trips we have an Outback. Great car.

[ergott]

For family trips we have an Outback. Great car.

How is interior noise with that car. As I get older I'm prioritizing ride quality and interior comfort/noise more.

[p nut]

How is interior noise with that car. As I get older I'm prioritizing ride quality and interior comfort/noise more.

We have a '13 ,2.5 CVT. There is a distinct whine from the CVT, but at highway speeds, can't really hear it until you step on it. I think the road noise is tolerable, and not nearly as bad as the new Camry's (surprisingly bad), but not Lexus/Acura/Caddy quiet, either. I am suspecting that the tires play a big role in this, and will invest in some Michelins after the stock Conti's wear out.

Interior space: Definitely can't fit a bike upright, and loaded sideways, probably not with the front wheel on even with the rear seats down. Haven't tried, as we have child seats in there. 2" hitch racks are available, so no issues for me. Ground clearance is amazing, as well as the AWD system. Trouble-free since new (but only 35k miles on it now).

[ergott]

Why aren't there more cars that can take a bike in the back without taking the wheels off? I have a fender bike I take occasionally to rides and it's such a nice convenience!

Damn short cars:mad:

[cnighbor1]

Look at a Mazda 6 sports touring
Great write ups and some used for sale at decent prices

[p nut]

Why aren't there more cars that can take a bike in the back without taking the wheels off? I have a fender bike I take occasionally to rides and it's such a nice convenience!

Damn short cars:mad:

Sorry, bad info. I did some searching, and looks like you can lay the bike down without taking the front wheel off.

[azrider]

IS300 Sportcross, gotta buy used as they stopped production in 2004. Plus they only made about 1600 of 'em so you gotta look but man they're fun, reliable cars.

Good luck with your search

[Ken Robb]

How is interior noise with that car. As I get older I'm prioritizing ride quality and interior comfort/noise more.

Me too, especially since our roads have deteriorated so much that the firm suspensions that I used to love have lost much of their appeal. Run-flat tires also detract from ride comfort.

[thunderworks]

We have a '13 ,2.5 CVT. There is a distinct whine from the CVT, but at highway speeds, can't really hear it until you step on it. I think the road noise is tolerable, and not nearly as bad as the new Camry's (surprisingly bad), but not Lexus/Acura/Caddy quiet, either. I am suspecting that the tires play a big role in this, and will invest in some Michelins after the stock Conti's wear out.

Interior space: Definitely can't fit a bike upright, and loaded sideways, probably not with the front wheel on even with the rear seats down. Haven't tried, as we have child seats in there. 2" hitch racks are available, so no issues for me. Ground clearance is amazing, as well as the AWD system. Trouble-free since new (but only 35k miles on it now).

You can absolutely lay a bike down with both wheels on in an Outback. I have a 2012 model . . . Plenty of room for my bike.

[ergott]

Just wish that car didn't break $40k with the bigger engine and moonroof.

Honestly I would have to test drive one, but CVT is such an awful transmission from an enthusiast point of view. Big turn off.

I really think the gas version is still better than any other option when factoring price/size/mileage/comforts/etc.

[rnhood]

The little Kia Soul can handle a bike without taking off the front wheel or fender. One person in our group has one, and he is riding a 60cm Madone (or it may be a Domane). Of course the back seat has to laid down so you will only have the two front seats to sit in, unlike my Sienna van which keeps 4 seats with the bike neatly inside. But my friend likes the Kia. I do not know much about it myself but it seems like maybe its a good practical option. And its very competitively priced. I just don't see any sense in paying over 20 or 25K max for a car. The law of diminishing returns sets in.

[professerr]

I don't think anyone here has suggested a BMW X1 yet. I drove one of these for a week last year. Basically it is an e91 BMW 3 series wagon done tall and cheap, with a modern turbo 4 cylinder engine/transmission. It handles great, like the prior generation 3-series, and due to the modern engine the gas milage was surprisingly good - mid 30s on the highway if I recall correctly, and pretty good around town. Engine noise and ride both felt a bit cheaper than other 3 series BMW I've driven, but still good enough.

These are ugly cars and a new model recently came out, so I bet you could get a 2015 still on some dealer's lot for cheap.

[ergott]

I don't think anyone here has suggested a BMW X1 yet.

Friend had one. It was so bad he had to return it. So many electrical issues. Has an M2 now. Still has electrical issues. He's 0/2 with new BMW's.

Hate to say since I was always a fan. I wouldn't pay any good money for one anymore.

[rnhood]

I've also got a buddy with the X1 and yes, its pretty nice. I believe it cost north of $30k though, and its been redesigned for 2016. Other than the motor cutting off at a stoplight, which I think can be disabled, the car is nice and sporty and runs good. I was fairly impressed with it. Reported reliability is not very good. And at $30k+, its a lot of money for a workhorse car.

The Honda Fit and Mazda 3 are also very good. These have already been mentioned I think. The Fit in particular is priced well.

[hoonjr]

2009 Fit owner checking in. Pros: great gas mileage, fun to drive, very reliable, inexpensive, versatile cargo options, easy to park in cities. Cons: small gas tank, very loud interior, not super stable in crosswinds, not much torque/power
Not sure about newer models but I would highly recommend buying a manual transmission with a low powered car. It definitely helps being able get a little more power when I need it aka merging on highway on ramps etc.

Our next family car will be a Mazda CX-5. I wish they had remote controlled rear hatch but it has all the other features I want.

[Ken Robb]

I don't think anyone here has suggested a BMW X1 yet. I drove one of these for a week last year. Basically it is an e91 BMW 3 series wagon done tall and cheap, with a modern turbo 4 cylinder engine/transmission. It handles great, like the prior generation 3-series, and due to the modern engine the gas milage was surprisingly good - mid 30s on the highway if I recall correctly, and pretty good around town. Engine noise and ride both felt a bit cheaper than other 3 series BMW I've driven, but still good enough.

These are ugly cars and a new model recently came out, so I bet you could get a 2015 still on some dealer's lot for cheap.

This is/was true but: the 2016 X1 is a totally new car based on a MINI Cooper. It is either front wheel or all-wheel drive. Reports I have read indicate that it drives quite well though fans of RWD cars in general and BMWs in particular were worried that it might drive like a Teutonic RAV4.:rolleyes:

[Ken Robb]

2009 Fit owner checking in. Pros: fun to drive. Cons: small gas tank, very loud interior, not super stable in crosswinds, not much torque/power.


.
Gee, that does sound like a lot of fun. :rolleyes:

[sparky33]

Traded my Subi wagon in to get an E wagon almost 2 years ago. It's incredible.

Showing here with zero miles on day one::
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/28/8db3b23cc6d2f8bd7f07b71a849b8f46.jpg
If you can find a recent one, don't think twice about it.

fwiw Mercedes got the Eco stop/start right here, among many other things.

[echappist]

This is/was true but: the 2016 X1 is a totally new car based on a MINI Cooper. It is either front wheel or all-wheel drive. Reports I have read indicate that it drives quite well though fans of RWD cars in general and BMWs in particular were worried that it might drive like a Teutonic RAV4.:rolleyes:

Teutonic; nice $10 (or is it 10 Deutschmark) words ;)

i once tried to use that word in front a few Germans and it completely went over their heads...

[ORMojo]

Honestly I would have to test drive one, but CVT is such an awful transmission from an enthusiast point of view. Big turn off.

(Have to once again say nice things about my Forester...)

I thought the same thing when I went to buy a new car last year. I had never owned an automatic transmission - had not even considered the possibility of buying one. I was a very hard-core manual transmission advocate - I raced semi-pro at PIR, rebuilt race engines on my living room floor, and had a number of very fast cars over the years. And I had experienced CVT trannies, and hated them.

Then last year I test drove almost 20 different cars before settling on the Turbo Forester with a CVT. It blew me away, and the fact that I could choose between three different modes, or switch to simulated manual mode, and use the paddle shifters in all modes, sealed the deal.

Here is what Motor Trend had to say (in part) about the Forester Turbo CVT: "This CVT is really good. Lieberman explained, "I was incredibly impressed with the CVT on the XT, especially when it's in Sport# and fakes up to 8 'gears.' Subaru went ahead and programmed it as aggressively as Porsche's PDK. When I was really flogging away on the XT, I'd look down at the gear indicator and observe that I was in '2.' Impressive." Not only is the CVT good, but editors had an absolute blast driving the Forester, describing it as being "quite tossable," and they enjoyed the XT's road feel and sportier suspension. It was quick at the track, too, where the XT reached 60 mph in 6.2 seconds. That's faster than the Acura MDX and the BMW x1 xDrive28i."

All this is just to say, if you are going to test drive a CVT, seriously consider the Forester Turbo.

[YesNdeed]

I have always liked the Volvo V50 T5 AWD. The R design is very cool, I think, and available Stateside 2009-12. I would, however, do some serious considering before buying one (I know you will). A buddy of mine found one (2006, I believe) with relatively high mileage, and had the transmission fail months after purchase. That was a big ouch...

My hope for a fuel efficient wagon became second priority when the fire breathing dragon of sport wagons appeared on the ABQ Audi site back in February. I love my S4 Avant B7, and never looked back...Picture was its first field trip out to the Jemez Mountains. Kind of a lousy picture, but I've never been much of a photo shoot kind of guy. More to come, with roof rack mounted.

[Tickdoc]

Traded my Subi wagon in to get an E wagon almost 2 years ago. It's incredible.

Showing here with zero miles on day one::
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/28/8db3b23cc6d2f8bd7f07b71a849b8f46.jpg
If you can find a recent one, don't think twice about it.

fwiw Mercedes got the Eco stop/start right here, among many other things.

That is a "winner winner chicken dinner" wagon if there ever was one. Looks nice in blue, too.

[Ralph]

I'm beginning to think a 4 door mid size pick up truck makes some sense for folks who travel a lot with "stuff". Fuel economy not so good, but some of you are considering vehicles that depreciate 50%, or more, in first 5 years of ownership....so don't know why you would care much about fuel economy. Pickup's hold their value good. If you aren't towing, you won't need the largest available engine. While handling only OK, many are available with 6 speed manuals. Seats are usually comfortable with lots of drivers leg room for big guys. And they are usually built with tough components for work duty. The 2016 newly updated Toyota Tacoma comes to mind. Some may soon offer a diesel.

[SoCalSteve]

That is a "winner winner chicken dinner" wagon if there ever was one. Looks nice in blue, too.

My wife drives an E 350 Cabriolet and I am super impressed by its road handling, solid feel, comfortable seats, fit and finish and just its overall drivability...not that I have done this, but at 100 mph it feels like 50.

I imagine the wagon version is similar in every way and if I were ever in the market for a nice wagon, I am sure the MBZ would be my first choice. Of course, if price is a factor, MBZ vehicles do not come cheap. Finding a low mileage used one or a new last years model ( like we did on her E and got $10k off of MSRP ) would be the way to go. German vehicles depreciate a ton in the first few years.

[rnhood]

I'm beginning to think a 4 door mid size pick up truck makes some sense for folks who travel a lot with "stuff". Fuel economy not so good, but some of you are considering vehicles that depreciate 50%, or more, in first 5 years of ownership....so don't know why you would care much about fuel economy. Pickup's hold their value good. If you aren't towing, you won't need the largest available engine. While handling only OK, many are available with 6 speed manuals. Seats are usually comfortable with lots of drivers leg room for big guys. And they are usually built with tough components for work duty. The 2016 newly updated Toyota Tacoma comes to mind. Some may soon offer a diesel.

Mostly agree with this however, I maintain the classic van is the best vehicle for biking, and just about any other sport activity. It has virtues not available in any other type vehicle. Of course if towing is necessary, then the 4-door pick-up or something like a Tahoe or Surburban is a better choice. And they likely hold value better than most anything out there - especially the Suburban.

The Ford Transit Connect is very nice and accommodating....and reasonably economical although probably underpowered.

[MattTuck]

n/m

[sparky33]

My wife drives an E 350 Cabriolet and I am super impressed by its road handling, solid feel, comfortable seats, fit and finish and just its overall drivability...not that I have done this, but at 100 mph it feels like 50.


Yeah, this is my view of it too. Just great all around. It's a full sized car that really moves and is comfortable.

If I had to nitpick, I'd say that it's a bummer that a trailer hitch bike rack doesn't work so well because there isn't a ton of ground clearance for a hitch. Gotta do roof racks. Though the low set body makes for good handling.

wrt to pricing and such... I used a buying agent (http://www.thecarconsultancy.com/) to arrange a favorable deal. He charges a flat fee and gets excellent prices that I could never get alone. Probably saved 7k or more, and that's not even considering the savings of buying a car built to order with only the specific options I wanted, instead of coming fully loaded$$$. Recommended.

[ergott]

Barf. Trucks, vans, and SUVs, handle like garbage.
:fight:

I'd rather travel light!

[JMacII]

How is interior noise with that car. As I get older I'm prioritizing ride quality and interior comfort/noise more.


Never noticed the interior noise on the outback as being bad. It's not a Lexus, but it's pretty nice. We have the 3.6L flat six which is not a cvt so no cvt whine. If I have one criticism it's the body roll. Lots of body roll. Not sure if it's the awd or what but it rolls like a round hull in a cross sea. Not tippy mind you, it's not that, it's just not very tight. But it's not a sports car and it does a lot of things well.

[denapista]

Barf. Trucks, vans, and SUVs, handle like garbage.
:fight:

I'd rather travel light!

Exactly! If you live in the inner city (Los Angeles), nothing like having a huge van or truck to get around town in. The wagon makes perfect sense to the common cyclists. Toss your stuff in the hatch, bike on the rack and the handling of a sport sedan. There's a reason why pro tour teams use them in pro tour level races. It just makes sense when it comes to bicycles and carrying stuff in fast manner.

The TDI Golf sportwagen is still on my list after I get rid of my oil burning Audi. People are bummed on the TDI models, but I'm sure any VW dealer will cut you a deal on a 2.0T GTI/GOLF or any non TDI model.

I love the W212 body Merc wagon, but man they're so pricey. I've heard nothing but unreliability stories with Merc cars, but I see the wagons on the road all the time, mostly driven by wealthy soccer mom types. So that probably explains why I always see them on the road, they can afford the downtime while it's getting repaired. The new BMW wagon is upwards to $50k after options, which is insanity. You could buy (2) TDI wagons for the price of (1) BMW 3 series wagons.

I just wonder if tuners will take a stock TDI and copy that tune, or if aftermarket chip tuning solves the emissions issues. Like APR makes a chip for the TDI, but does it automatically overwrite the stock VW programming.

[palincss]

I love the W212 body Merc wagon, but man they're so pricey. I've heard nothing but unreliability stories with Merc cars, but I see the wagons on the road all the time, mostly driven by wealthy soccer mom types. So that probably explains why I always see them on the road, they can afford the downtime while it's getting repaired. The new BMW wagon is upwards to $50k after options, which is insanity. You could buy (2) TDI wagons for the price of (1) BMW 3 series wagons.

Merc wagon owners have the highest incomes of any Mercedes owners. I test drove a 3-series wagon and cross-shopped it against a TDI wagon and although in a couple of areas liked the BMW a whole lot, I didn't like it twice as much as the JSW TDI -- and there were a couple of things about the BMW (poor rear visibility, cave like interior and that godawful backwards shift lever where to get from Park to Reverse you go UP) that I really disliked very much.

[SpeedyChix]

Never noticed the interior noise on the outback as being bad. It's not a Lexus, but it's pretty nice. We have the 3.6L flat six which is not a cvt so no cvt whine. If I have one criticism it's the body roll. Lots of body roll. Not sure if it's the awd or what but it rolls like a round hull in a cross sea. Not tippy mind you, it's not that, it's just not very tight. But it's not a sports car and it does a lot of things well.

We swapped out the rear sway bar early on in the Subie. Easy to do and really helps tighten things up.

Makes a decent hauler if you don't need mega room. It's noisier than the Odyssey but not bad. We'd consider another 3.6L

[mistermo]

Like the original poster, I wanted a wagon, with a MT. Hardly any choices anymore. I found an '05 TDI Passat wagon in good condition, save a blown transmission. $2K invested. I sent it to a guy in SC who imports VW MTs from Germany and he replaced the dead AT with the 5MT. (He recommends the 5s over the 6s). When the transmission is changed, an ECU reprogramming is required too, and I got a stage 1 tune. Now, I've got a Passat TDI 5MT wagon. Presently, there are no other cars on the market (TDI JSW is no longer on the market) that appeal to me.

Prior to going this route, I was about to pull the trigger on a V50R 6s, until I drove it. At 6'2", it felt a little tight in the cabin. Otherwise, I'd have that car instead.

Ive had a 5MT Subaru Outback. It was somewhat reliable, except for the leaky head gaskets that EVERY one of these gets. But man oh man, was it boring to drive (except in the snow).

[mistermo]

Why is the Honda Crosstour never mentioned in threads like these?

[4Rings6Stars]

Like the original poster, I wanted a wagon, with a MT. Hardly any choices anymore. I found an '05 TDI Passat wagon in good condition, save a blown transmission. $2K invested. I sent it to a guy in SC who imports VW MTs from Germany and he replaced the dead AT with the 5MT. (He recommends the 5s over the 6s). When the transmission is changed, an ECU reprogramming is required too, and I got a stage 1 tune. Now, I've got a Passat TDI 5MT wagon. Presently, there are no other cars on the market (TDI JSW is no longer on the market) that appeal to me.

Prior to going this route, I was about to pull the trigger on a V50R 6s, until I drove it. At 6'2", it felt a little tight in the cabin. Otherwise, I'd have that car instead.

Ive had a 5MT Subaru Outback. It was somewhat reliable, except for the leaky head gaskets that EVERY one of these gets. But man oh man, was it boring to drive (except in the snow).

Gotta get the turbo if you're looking for any enjoyment out of a Subaru. We recently sold my wife's 06 Legacy GT (5MT turbo). That car was fun to drive... but had some reliability issues and being a sedan, didn't have the space we needed. Replaced it with a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. Not quite as much fun as the subie, but we have been very happy with it so far. MUCH more space than the subie but gets similar / better fuel economy (around 25-27 mpg).

I'm driving an '04 6MT A4 Avant Quattro and enjoying it very much. Similar dimensions to the JSW. Mine gets 25-28 mpg (would be closer to 30 if I tried, but that's no fun). I was planning to replace it eventually with a JSW or a newer A4 avant but I'm not eager to lose the MT.

[staggerwing]

Why is the Honda Crosstour never mentioned in threads like these?

All the weight, reduced mileage, cost, and turd like handling of a SUV, without the corresponding increase in cabin space. Honestly, I can't see anything appealing.

I must not be the only one, it looks like Honda killed it for 2016.

[a4racer]

As an owner of a dirty diesel soon to be recalled, I also highly recommend the vehicle we bought earlier this summer...a RHD 1999 Mitsubishi Delica Chamonix w/4" lift kit on OZ Racing wheels. It is ridiculous, and I have an ear to ear grin every time I drive it!

It has room for EIGHT, but a smaller footprint than a minivan. Comes in diesel (ours is a V6 gas version) and the back, so versatile. 3rd row folds up against the wall, middle row (with jumpseat, no less) rotates 90 degrees, 180 degrees, and is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

[hnovack]

I have had 3 Subaru Outbacks, over 150,000 on first 2 without problems. I can fit my bike in back easily if you lower the back seats. I have always gotten the 6 cylinder. The 2015 with the CVT is quiet and does handle fairly well, though can roll a bit on turns. Good pick up with the 6 and fair mileage 28 miles per gallon on highway. It was rated as equal to the Audi Allroad in Consumers and is at least 10K cheaper. It was recently voted best handling car in snow. I have not had the head gasket issues.

[twin]

Will two bikes with front wheels off fit in the back of the 2015 Fit? I'm close to buying one and wanted to double check. Thanks

[Ken Robb]

Will two bikes with front wheels off fit in the back of the 2015 Fit? I'm close to buying one and wanted to double check. Thanks

different bikes,bars,etc. suggest to me that you take your bikes to the dealer for a trial fit to be sure.

[palincss]

Will two bikes with front wheels off fit in the back of the 2015 Fit? I'm close to buying one and wanted to double check. Thanks

Friends of mine with the previous generation Fit do it all the time, taking turns carpooling to ride starts. One's bikes are 53 or so, fairly small, but the other's are 57-57 cm and several have fenders. I've never paid really close attention to exactly how they get them in there.

[p nut]

I've had 2 Medium sized mountain bikes (29ers, FS) in my 07 Fit with just one side of the rear seats down. Three riders, 2 bikes in the car and one on the roof. Two road bikes should be easy peasy. Might even be able to fit 3 in there.

[rnhood]

I like the Fit the more I read about it. Honda reliability has generally been excellent. I like their vans too.

The Subaru Forester is another rather small vehicle contender, and the WSJ just did a review (http://www.wsj.com/articles/subaru-forester-choosing-function-over-form-1443728530) and gave it their stamp of approval. They are looking at it from a function before fashion standpoint however....which they should.

The Subaru Forester has never had much of a beach body. In the first moments of gazing at our test car, a 2016 Forester 2.5i Premium, you may marvel at how they have managed to wrap all that interesting technology—Subaru’s inimitable front-mounted, horizontally opposed four-cylinder engine with permanent all-wheel drive—in all that frump. Oh, honey. You’re not going to the prom in that? But the epic dowdiness is camouflage. Lying just beneath the baggy-pants sheet metal, and behind that turned-up mush of a face, is one of the market’s best cars. Nothing is sacrificed to appearances; all is function...

[redearedslider5]

i haven't read through all the replies but just on the off chance it wasn't mentioned, i would go with the mazda3 wagon. excellent chassis and interior from what i understand and about the best mpg you can get off gas only.

[palincss]

What Mazda 3 wagon? Mazda doesn't sell a wagon in the United States.

[pbarry]

The Mazda 3 five door..

[palincss]

A nice hatchback, but no more room inside in back than a VW Golf -- certainly not enough room to fit a bicycle.

[redearedslider5]

What Mazda 3 wagon? Mazda doesn't sell a wagon in the United States.

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsMain&vehicleCode=M3H

[MikeD]

Want a car with excellent gas mileage that you can fit your bike in the back with the seats folded down that gets 50+ mpg? Get a Prius. The back seat is very roomy and the car fits 4 people comfortably. Want more room? Get a Prius V. I don't live in snow country so never saw the need to get a car with with the poor gas mileage of AWD.

[PeregrineA1]

Want a car with excellent gas mileage that you can fit your bike in the back with the seats folded down that gets 50+ mpg? Get a Prius. The back seat is very roomy and the car fits 4 people comfortably. Want more room? Get a Prius V. I don't live in snow country so never saw the need to get a car with with the poor gas mileage of AWD.

As stated early on, I want a fun car to drive. A Prius of any sort does not qualify-we had one, a great transportation module, but not a fun car to drive.

I drive a lot and I do care about fuel economy, but not at the expense of driving pleasure. I'll "settle" for mid to high 30's on the highway for a little fun when the road bends. It will still be using half the fuel I do now.

The Mazda 3, Subaru Impreza, and maybe GTI are on the list. As is the JSW (now GSW) TDI depending on how the "fix" goes both technologically and from a customer service standpoint.

Oddly enough the local dealer just pinged me to see if I was still interested in a GSW TDI.

[palincss]

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsMain&vehicleCode=M3H

A hatchback, surely; a wagon, no. Too small to fit a bike inside "the wagon way," and no Magic Seat ala Honda Fit, so in no way in lieu of a Sportwagen.

[redearedslider5]

i currently drive an '09 honda fit with 5 speed. it's sort of interesting as econo-boxes go. very clever packaging with their 'magic seats.' i've easily fit two bikes back there with the wheels off, probably could have done a third if i tried. of course it's been dead reliable as hondas are. the only issue is that the battery is tiny. i had to get jumped once and my boss laughed at me and asked if it was a lawnmower battery. anyways, in anything below freezing it has a hard time starting and below twenty or so it just isn't reliable. known issue, just because they used a ridiculously small battery. not sure if it's an issue with the newest generation.

all that to say, i used to own a mk4 gti with the vr6 engine and i've also driven a 2010, both manual. both cars are leaps and bounds above the honda in terms of driving experience. smooth power delivery, wonderful interior materials, etc. as driving experiences go, the only thing the honda has on the gti is that the shifter has a delicate feeling snap to it that's hard to describe.

the only reason i don't own a gti now is vw's reputation for generally spotty reliability. as they say though, if you want one car that does everything well, the only choices are a gti or a 3 series bmw.

[redearedslider5]

oh i should also mention that it was two bikes in the back with front wheels off, frames laying against floor, one on top of the other. not sure what the 'wagon way' is.

[4Rings6Stars]

oh i should also mention that it was two bikes in the back with front wheels off, frames laying against floor, one on top of the other. not sure what the 'wagon way' is.

I have an A4 wagon and with the seats down I can fit a bike in there with both wheels still on... Removing and installing a front wheel (caliper brake, no generator or anything funky) takes all of 15 seconds so that wouldn't be a make or break for me.

[AngryScientist]

for the record, most sedans have almost as much floor area with the rear seats folded down as a wagon. for example, we have a jetta sedan and i can throw a bike in the trunk with the rear seats down and the front wheel off with plenty of room to spare.

[p nut]

...the only issue is that the battery is tiny. i had to get jumped once and my boss laughed at me and asked if it was a lawnmower battery. anyways, in anything below freezing it has a hard time starting and below twenty or so it just isn't reliable. known issue, just because they used a ridiculously small battery. not sure if it's an issue with the newest generation...

Weird. I live in snow country with temps well-below 20 throughout the winter. Never had issues starting for me. Still has the Honda battery. If you're having issues, just get an Oddessy or DieHard.

[ergott]

for the record, most sedans have almost as much floor area with the rear seats folded down as a wagon. for example, we have a jetta sedan and i can throw a bike in the trunk with the rear seats down and the front wheel off with plenty of room to spare.

True.

Only problem worth checking is that some have a small pass through due to strut towers, chassis reinforcing, etc. My buddy has an older WRX (2002?) and the seats don't even fold down! Only a small pass through. My 2003 Civic pass through with the seats folded was decent, but definitely hight limited significantly.

[druptight]

A hatchback, surely; a wagon, no. Too small to fit a bike inside "the wagon way," and no Magic Seat ala Honda Fit, so in no way in lieu of a Sportwagen.

I'm not quite sure what "the wagon way" is, but I was able to lie my 54cm down in the back of my mazda 3 with both wheels on and the front wheel straight when I folded the rear seats down. I've seen 3 bikes in the back before with front wheels off if you tetris them in there, and 2 is easy. Drove that sucker for 10 years and about 150K miles before retiring it for a wagon due to family growth.

I now have a TDI sportwagen recall model, but the Mazda 3 EASILY fit a bike in back laying down.

[pbarry]

Took a test drive in one of these last night. Loved it. Cavernous rear, nimble in traffic and quick, for a van. FWD, no AWD option. Good mileage. Reminds me.of an Element, but bigger. Large enough cargo area to perform team van/car duties. Engines and transmissions are U.S. production, with vehicle assembly in Turkey.


http://m.ramtrucks.com/en/mobile/vehicles/2015/ram-promaster-city-tradesman/?sid=1037056&KWNM=ram+promaster+city+review&KWID=43700007076122173&TR=1&channel=paidsearch

[buddybikes]

re: for the record, most sedans have almost as much floor area with the rear seats folded down as a wagon. for example, we have a jetta sedan and i can throw a bike in the trunk with the rear seats down and the front wheel off with plenty of room to spare.


>>My previous post earlier - Saab wagon - 3 bikes - 3 kayaks - 3 people - 2 dogs - one week vacation.

[Louis]

re: for the record, most sedans have almost as much floor area with the rear seats folded down as a wagon. for example, we have a jetta sedan and i can throw a bike in the trunk with the rear seats down and the front wheel off with plenty of room to spare.

That only helps if what you need to transport is relatively flat. Anything like a big box or a roll of 5" landscaping drainage pipe needs volume and to get that in you need something hinged at the top, bottom, or sides, not a trunk.

[FL_MarkD]

If Mazda produces another Mazdaspeed3 hatchback, I will buy it. As said above, I could put my 54cm bike in with the front wheel on and turned with no problem.

I sold that car :crap: and now have a CX-5 which I like. But that turbo power is intoxicating.

[Hawker]

Love my Mazda 3 hatch. With the seats down I can lay my bike down with both wheels on. Low lift over as well.

[ORMojo]

The Subaru Viziv concept has a next-generation small-displacement turbocharged engine mated to a hybrid setup. The electric motor provides power to the rear axle while the engine drives the front wheels, allowing all-wheel drive and torque vectoring. This setup allows the small crossover to have an entirely flat floor, maximizing usable space in the vehicle.
http://autoguide.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/subaru-viziv-future-concept/subaru-viziv-future-concept-1.jpg
http://autoguide.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/subaru-viziv-future-concept/subaru-viziv-future-concept-6.jpg
http://autoguide.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/subaru-viziv-future-concept/subaru-viziv-future-concept-8.jpg

It also has a built-in bike rack in the rear bumper.
http://autoguide.com.vsassets.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/subaru-viziv-future-concept/subaru-viziv-future-concept-7.jpg

[MikeD]

As stated early on, I want a fun car to drive. A Prius of any sort does not qualify-we had one, a great transportation module, but not a fun car to drive.



I drive a lot and I do care about fuel economy, but not at the expense of driving pleasure. I'll "settle" for mid to high 30's on the highway for a little fun when the road bends. It will still be using half the fuel I do now.



The Mazda 3, Subaru Impreza, and maybe GTI are on the list. As is the JSW (now GSW) TDI depending on how the "fix" goes both technologically and from a customer service standpoint.



Oddly enough the local dealer just pinged me to see if I was still interested in a GSW TDI.


Not sure why you are considering wagons or diesels in the fun to drive category. Doesn't seem like a good fit to me.

[PeregrineA1]

Not sure why you are considering wagons or diesels in the fun to drive category. Doesn't seem like a good fit to me.

Fun is relative. The wagon form of the Golf is substantially the same handling as the 4 door hatch version with some additional storage. A Golf in either form is a significantly better drive than a Prius or C Max for my purposes.

I am a fan of diesel torque, coming from 500 pound feet now. If I'm going for mileage over them diesel is a great option. Have you driven one?

That all being said, having driven, today, a gas Golf, Impreza, Mazda 3, and Focus.....the Mazda 3 is the leader at this time.

[jmeloy]

for the record, most sedans have almost as much floor area with the rear seats folded down as a wagon. for example, we have a jetta sedan and i can throw a bike in the trunk with the rear seats down and the front wheel off with plenty of room to spare.


Ditto!

[fuzzalow]

Not sure why you are considering wagons or diesels in the fun to drive category. Doesn't seem like a good fit to me.

Before transitioning to a car-free existence, we had consecutively gone through two new station wagons, both with manual transmissions. And most tellingly, both never had a set of tires lasted longer than 18k miles. All scrubbed off with lateral g's at every opportunity that presented itself. My wife always dubbed my wagon method as "Formula 1 wagon".

Fun to drive isn't inherent to the car, it is what you know and your skill in how you drive it. Any vehicle is more fun to drive when you can press it closer to its limits, whatever those limits might be. All done in the safest and most responsible manner, of course.

I'd laugh at the guys that thought they were studly in their sport utility vehicle compared to their image of emasculation imagined of my station wagon. PRNDL compared to 5-speed and they thought they were the real drivers - stick it in "D" and go!

[MikeD]

Fun to drive is low on the priority list for me. Driving isn't fun; especially on the roads around here. Comfort, economy, interior space, quietness, power, cost, reliability, etc., all trump fun to drive in my opinion. I gave up stick shifts when I got stuck in bumper to bumper traffic all too often.

[echappist]

A V50 and a V70 just got added to the list of CPO Volvo wagons. i'd be tempted to get the V70 had it had fewer miles (currently 50k), but the CPO warranty is for 7 years...

[batman1425]

I've got a 2011 Mazda 3 wagon. VERY easy to fit a 56-58cm frame in the back with the seats folded, done it countless times.

As for the car itself, I liked it at first, but as of late, I'm getting meh with it. It handles well, and has enough power to make it somewhat interesting. But the fit/finish is wearing faster than other cars I've owned, it eats tires like crazy (negative camber setup from the factory to give it that Zoom-Zoom handling) and clutch is FAR from refined. Fuel economy isn't as good as other cars in its class either. I average about 25city/29hwy and don't drive particularly aggressively. Personal preferences aside, it has been an extremely reliable vehicle needing nothing other than wear items in the 5 years and 66k miles I've had it (bought it new).

I'll probably keep it for another year or so then trade it for something AWD while it still has some value.

[echappist]

bump. a 1:43 model of the V90 Estate was leaked. What a beauty, but too bad it's wayyyyyyy over my price range even if i buy a CPO. supposed to come out in early 2016

http://www.swedespeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/v90-model-1000x414.jpg

[Louis]

What a beauty

This is a joke, right? Can't get much plainer than that. Might make a good hearse.

[54ny77]

Just get a Range Rover lookalike, the "Land Wing," for $22kk. Bargain!

http://images.cdn.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/landwind-2015-002.jpg?itok=r6rgIs03

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-04/this-21-700-land-rover-lookalike-to-go-on-sale-in-china

[Hawker]

I'm not quite sure what "the wagon way" is, but I was able to lie my 54cm down in the back of my mazda 3 with both wheels on and the front wheel straight when I folded the rear seats down. I've seen 3 bikes in the back before with front wheels off if you tetris them in there, and 2 is easy. Drove that sucker for 10 years and about 150K miles before retiring it for a wagon due to family growth.

I now have a TDI sportwagen recall model, but the Mazda 3 EASILY fit a bike in back laying down.

I have a Mazda 3 hatch and totally agree. IF the car itself is large enough for you. It is for us and I love everything about it. EXCEPT, the road noise due to the large open space in the back can be loud. Have to pay special attention to buying a "quiet" tire and keeping them rotated.

[Tickdoc]

bump. a 1:43 model of the V90 Estate was leaked. What a beauty, but too bad it's wayyyyyyy over my price range even if i buy a CPO. supposed to come out in early 2016

http://www.swedespeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/v90-model-1000x414.jpg

wanna bet it doesn't come stateside?

[palincss]

bump. a 1:43 model of the V90 Estate was leaked. What a beauty, but too bad it's wayyyyyyy over my price range even if i buy a CPO. supposed to come out in early 2016


But so far, at least the last time I saw an article on it, no decision had been made regarding its coming to America.

[palincss]

wanna bet it doesn't come stateside?

Actually, that's not something I would want to bet on. There were two things Volvo was really known for: safety, and wagons. Everyone's got safety now, so it's hard to really stand out and be unique in that arena. I certainly hope it comes here, my wife's 850 wagon is over 20 years old now.

[echappist]

20 yrs? damn. i hope the V60 that i buy will last that long

[fade]

if i didn't care about resale.....

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/2013-Mercedes-CLS63-AMG-Shooting-Brake-01.jpg

[Fatty]

A true beast of a car and a real head turner.

[ltwtsculler91]

wanna bet it doesn't come stateside?

When I was in for an oil change with my S60, the dealer told me there was clamor for them to bring it stateside among the dealer base, as the XC70 still sells relatively well and this would be the replacement.
It's almost 100% sure to be available in the US in some form. The unknown is if it will come in both normal wagon and "Cross Country" like the V60 or just Cross Country guise like the V70 is now

[djg21]

I still have a nice A4 Avant for sale (2012, loaded, 56K miles, still under CPO warranty (we leased it and then bought it off of lease)). I'd love to see someone I know end up with it. My wife just was given a company car.

[jwess1234]

Agree with an earlier comment that Mazda3 is a super practical option. Just test drove one for the hell of it. Nice build, a few revisions in so all bugs worked out, nice amount of storage. Only downsides: (i) weak acceleration; (ii) hatchback isn't the greatest for rear visibility, especially looking over left shoulder for lane changes.

When you get into the 2.5L territory for the car you are around 26-27k area and there are other fun to drive cars in that price range (subaru WRX, or if you up budget to 30ish some BMWs).

[palincss]

Agree with an earlier comment that Mazda3 is a super practical option. Just test drove one for the hell of it. Nice build, a few revisions in so all bugs worked out, nice amount of storage. Only downsides: (i) weak acceleration; (ii) hatchback isn't the greatest for rear visibility, especially looking over left shoulder for lane changes.

When you get into the 2.5L territory for the car you are around 26-27k area and there are other fun to drive cars in that price range (subaru WRX, or if you up budget to 30ish some BMWs).

Sure, as long as you understand up front that it is not a replacement for the Sportwagen, in that it is a hatchback and not a wagon, and won't fit a bicycle inside the way the Sportwagen will.

[p nut]

Sure, as long as you understand up front that it is not a replacement for the Sportwagen, in that it is a hatchback and not a wagon, and won't fit a bicycle inside the way the Sportwagen will.

Wagon, hatch....I have no idea if there is an exact qualifier for either. Like trying to define Monstercross.

My "hatch" fits as much, or more than my "wagon." And even fits multiple bikes upright where my wagon can't.

[dnades]

Saab 9-5 wagon. 2009 was the last year they made them. Fast, comfortable seating, holds a lot of stuff(77 cubic feet), 25 city/31 highway, and safe.

[buddybikes]

We have a bright red 2008 9-5 manual wagon, think it is pretty much one of a kind. We treat it nice-know that if it get crashed will be totalled quickly due to price and availablity of body parts. With my very bad back (surgery next mon) sitting it that thing is most comfortable place.

[jh_on_the_cape]

A true beast of a car and a real head turner.

does it have the rear facing third row? can you seat three across in the front bench? pilot - DJ - copilot

[PeregrineA1]

I may have posted this earlier...I ended up with the Mazda 3 2.0 6MT.

Not a rocketship, but certainly more fun than an F-250 or an E320. I happy with the performance and the 33-35 in town and 37-39 highway.

Fits my 19.5" Trek EX-9 with the front wheel off and the front seats in the standard position for my 6'0" frame. Road bikes are no problem-2 with a blanket between. I do have a One-Up (double) hitch mount on the way for when we want to travel with the bikes.

Fun on gravel roads with the traction control turned off too.

[paredown]

I still have a nice A4 Avant for sale (2012, loaded, 56K miles, still under CPO warranty (we leased it and then bought it off of lease)). I'd love to see someone I know end up with it. My wife just was given a company car.

Ah--that would be nice. And we are close--mid Hudson--but I just did a quick KBB valuation and it is out our (meager) price range.:(

[Fatty]

Also a locking secret stash.
Three would fit in the front but I cut the third seatbelt out.





does it have the rear facing third row? can you seat three across in the front bench? pilot - DJ - copilot

[jh_on_the_cape]

Also a locking secret stash.
Three would fit in the front but I cut the third seatbelt out.

bah. seatbelts are for people who don't know how to drive safely. I am going to the gym and share hypodermic needles with strangers now. Have a great weekend!

[Ralph]

I may have posted this earlier...I ended up with the Mazda 3 2.0 6MT.

Not a rocketship, but certainly more fun than an F-250 or an E320. I happy with the performance and the 33-35 in town and 37-39 highway.

Fits my 19.5" Trek EX-9 with the front wheel off and the front seats in the standard position for my 6'0" frame. Road bikes are no problem-2 with a blanket between. I do have a One-Up (double) hitch mount on the way for when we want to travel with the bikes.

Fun on gravel roads with the traction control turned off too.

I have a 1 UP for when I haul 2 or 3 bikes. If one bike, it goes inside.

You will love your 1 UP Rack. Nothing compares. It makes hauling bikes so simple.