Watts wrong?

[Redturbo]

Did Joe Martin stage race this weekend, stunk up Sat but got a top 10 on Sun crit. My race strategy for the hill climb tt was when my watts dropped below X I would stand up to push my watts up to keep my average watts goal. It didn't work out for me. I met my average watts goal but when compared to my teammate who is about 10lbs more the me and his average watts were about 10 to 15 higher than mine he ended up putting about 1min 10 into me on the 2.5mile 10% hill. The math just doesn't work. Was it my up and down watts style or does my srm need to be calibrated or something? :confused:

turbo

[Climb01742]

i'm far far from an expert in this but... watts and speed aren't linked absolutely, yes? could your friend have used different gearing, so his watts produced greater speed? or he's more efficient, pedalling-wise, so again his watts = greater speed? it would seem he somehow produced more speed out of his watts. gearing? pedalling efficiency? frame efficiency? something? but i am totally in the peanut gallery here.

[Spicoli]

I am a newbie to the whole watts thing, but I do think "Climbo" is on the right track with the efficency thing. An analogy would be riding in the drops; your speed should go up while your watts go down. Thats the truth for myself and if that is the case for you it means you have untapped speed hidden away without having to get any stronger. Maybe?

[Dr. Doofus]

doof lacks your talent

doof is not as fast as you

doof says: you didn't ride too well on the climb.

don't tt using a powermeter as a pacing guide. Use PE, and lots of practice on similar climbs. As a guess, doof would say that your target watts may have been too low -- doof has seen data from himself and the guys he used to train where the avg watts on a climb were higher than for a flat TT of similar duration. If the watts goal was from a CP12 test on the flat, you weren't going hard enough. also intervals up some similar climbs at different cadences will help you find your gearing for the best efficiency -- although PE and a stopwatch could do that too, the powermeter will allow you to quantify it.

but dofo stays with the common-sense answer. you didn't go up the climb fast enough, and ride more hills like that if you want a better ride next time.

doof loves his powermeter, doof has loved powermeters since 1997. but at a point, they have their limits as tools.

[dauwhe]

Since your talking about a difference of ten or fifteen watts, that's a relatively small percentage of the total. I think you'd need to carefully weigh both systems (rider + bike), and compare watts/kg.

There could be also be differences in rolling resistance, aerodynamics, etc. as well as differing calibrations of both power meters.

I'd be wary of drawing any conclusions from this data...

Dave

[Ken Lehner]

Did Joe Martin stage race this weekend, stunk up Sat but got a top 10 on Sun crit. My race strategy for the hill climb tt was when my watts dropped below X I would stand up to push my watts up to keep my average watts goal. It didn't work out for me. I met my average watts goal but when compared to my teammate who is about 10lbs more the me and his average watts were about 10 to 15 higher than mine he ended up putting about 1min 10 into me on the 2.5mile 10% hill. The math just doesn't work. Was it my up and down watts style or does my srm need to be calibrated or something? :confused:

turbo
Assuming 300W average power, a 5kg difference (assumed the heavier rider weighs 80kg) would result in a 65 second difference in time in your favor. A 5.5kg difference would result in 1:11 difference. An extra 15W would result (same mass) in a gain of about :45. Watts is watts (and they are independent of gearing, for all intents and purposes), so there is clearly something wrong with the numbers you provide.

See analyticcycling.com and run your own numbers.

[Too Tall]

First, comparing yourself to your teammate...DON'T! Second, not mastering what the 3k$$ thingee on your handlebar is telling you. By "target watts" what is that? I hope you didn't go to analytic cycling calculator and figure out what you need to do in terms of watts to place well? Gawd that would hurt to race THAT hard at someone else's pace.

The times on that TT are less than 30 mins. so Doof is spot on as usual. CP 12 tests are a good starting point.

Last, standing to get the watts up was not such a hot idea in general..it is OTAY very briefly to get some blood to piriformis and yada yada. The best TTs are....(drum roll) steady state where your effort is fairly even start to finish.

[stevep]

Did Joe Martin stage race this weekend, stunk up Sat but got a top 10 on Sun crit. My race strategy for the hill climb tt was when my watts dropped below X I would stand up to push my watts up to keep my average watts goal. It didn't work out for me. I met my average watts goal but when compared to my teammate who is about 10lbs more the me and his average watts were about 10 to 15 higher than mine he ended up putting about 1min 10 into me on the 2.5mile 10% hill. The math just doesn't work. Was it my up and down watts style or does my srm need to be calibrated or something? :confused:

turbo

i hate to say this because it sounds totally wiseass... but i think its true. ditch the watt meter and do a few hill tts...they require different skill.
first half a little softer than you want...second half spend all the $$$ you have...and get super warmed up
if you got in the top 10 in the crit you are fast... you are thinking about it too much.

[ada@prorider.or]

well to give you a idea
i have 2 clients (friends ) in usa
both about same weight same height same age
they differance in watts is about 25 watss
due to their aerodynamics
also when up hill they still differ
this due to the differance in srm about 5%
remember the srm is plus and minus 2 % this means
about 4 to 5 %
also if some do not calibrate right then you have easily 25 -50 differance in readings


also when the srm is not correct mounted its easy to have fluctuations
secondly is you srm tuned the same way
this means average each 1 second or example each 10 seconds
then you have the adjustment of the display
is that the same
dispaly evry avg of 1 second or 5 seconds
it´s all factors that comes inthis to have the same readings


its a complex thing
also to explain
cees

[jeffg]

watts on hills will be slightly higher by roughly 5-10 watts (increased gravitation pull?).

Anyway, I think the advice to go by PE is the ticket. The SRM can then tell you what you did rather than dictating what you should do.

I think PMs are a great training tool and deliver good event/race info. During a race/event I am not so sure they are the best guide ...

[Redturbo]

i hate to say this because it sounds totally wiseass... but i think its true. ditch the watt meter and do a few hill tts...they require different skill.
first half a little softer than you want...second half spend all the $$$ you have...and get super warmed up
if you got in the top 10 in the crit you are fast... you are thinking about it too much.
Yep I way over thought this tt, it got in my head :bike: My last tt climb I was top 10 and all I did was pedal real hard. ;)

thanks
turbo

[Too Tall]

Gratsi. It took a village to save this one from the crusher ;)

Now....what are your views on tubulars? Kidding, just kidding!

[stevep]

now turbo, ditch the watt meter and get to having a good time riding hard.
save us all some time out here.