Why we should talk to dorks on bikes

[Too Tall]

My morning commute. Today I am "stalked" by some big legged assasin for a few miles. After sizing me up sufficently he whizzes by without so much as a "fine fair thee well". What a goose. Anywho, I like to use guys like this as my personal taxi ride to Downtown DC. Sitting on at warp speed and low watts is a treat. The assasin is being a good assasin, yelling at joggers and pointing out the ocassional mine field for me...good assasin. I patiently wait...at 30 mph...for him to blow chunks so I can talk to him about quadratic equations and the acute angle of the dangle 'n such ;) BUT that is NOT happening...this sukr' keeps going and going and going...at 30 mph.

Trust me other than a well known local who has more accomplishments than any of us I've never seen a rider TT at this speed for so long.

Finally after about 6 miles he lets me come around and I ask his name...no your FULL name pal! Ok Mr. Assasin why don't you race????

Turns out he truly has no clue how frickin' fast he is and by the time we reach DC I've convinced him he will win the district champs in cat5 and you know what? I'm willing to put $$ on that. If he enters, he wins.

That's my story. I talk to dorks.

[keno]

So fly in his Halloween costume fooled you. He's a sly devil.

keno

[Ray]

Grant Peterson has a lot of Rivendellian rules (OK, suggestions) about lots of stuff, including stuff to say and not to say to relative newbies. One of the suggestions was not to say to someone who's fast who doesn't race, "you oughta race". Somebody once caught me on a good day when I was relatively new to riding and told me I oughta race. I can't even begin to tell you how wrong that guy was.

I'm not saying this guy shouldn't race - he might love it. And it's not my rule, after all - I'm just passing it on because it stuck with me for some reason...

Because maybe he's that fast without working all that hard and he enjoys his commute that way and is riding way within his comfort zone and maybe he'd hate having to ramp up the effort to get REALLY good. And maybe he'd burn out on riding, but hopefully if that happened he'd be able to get back to his current state of ignorant bliss.

It might be a terrible waste of talent. Or it may just be a different way to make the most of that talent.

He maybe oughta race. But it's worth considering that maybe not. Now you've gone and forced him to think about it. Which probably isn't a bad thing. But might be.

-Ray

[stevep]

but maybe if hes really fast he might like to race?
maybe if he does not like it when he tries it he does not have to continue to do it?
maybe he will explore and enjoy this aspect as well as the comeraderie of the sport?
if he is not interested in the exploration maybe he'll just say thanks but not interested?

i cannot understand why you would not say to the guy..." hey, you might like racing, you're pretty fast"

i understand why grant would say that because then there would be one more old touring bike on ebay and the guy would be digging some slick race bike after trying it... but the concept still eludes me.

although i would be against pointing a gun at a new guy and forcing him to race... unless it was necessary.

[victoryfactory]

Maybe it was Forrest Gump.

VF

[Sandy]

My morning commute. Today I am "stalked" by some big legged assasin for a few miles. After sizing me up sufficently he whizzes by without so much as a "fine fair thee well". What a goose. Anywho, I like to use guys like this as my personal taxi ride to Downtown DC. Sitting on at warp speed and low watts is a treat. The assasin is being a good assasin, yelling at joggers and pointing out the ocassional mine field for me...good assasin. I patiently wait...at 30 mph...for him to blow chunks so I can talk to him about quadratic equations and the acute angle of the dangle 'n such ;) BUT that is NOT happening...this sukr' keeps going and going and going...at 30 mph.

Trust me other than a well known local who has more accomplishments than any of us I've never seen a rider TT at this speed for so long.

Finally after about 6 miles he lets me come around and I ask his name...no your FULL name pal! Ok Mr. Assasin why don't you race????

Turns out he truly has no clue how frickin' fast he is and by the time we reach DC I've convinced him he will win the district champs in cat5 and you know what? I'm willing to put $$ on that. If he enters, he wins.

That's my story. I talk to dorks.

Don't you ever call me a dork again. I could have gone 35 but I felt sorry for you! :)

:banana: A dork, but a very fast dork :banana:

[Kevan]

curled up on the floor of his cubicle, still in his kit and shoes, hugging his "used" wastebasket, chest heaving, muttering to no one in particular, "I can't believe I rode at 30 mph for that long! Who was that guy and why for the love of Mary did I bother passing him???"

Hmmmph!

[Ray]

but maybe if hes really fast he might like to race?
maybe if he does not like it when he tries it he does not have to continue to do it?
maybe he will explore and enjoy this aspect as well as the comeraderie of the sport?
if he is not interested in the exploration maybe he'll just say thanks but not interested?

i cannot understand why you would not say to the guy..." hey, you might like racing, you're pretty fast"

i understand why grant would say that because then there would be one more old touring bike on ebay and the guy would be digging some slick race bike after trying it... but the concept still eludes me.

although i would be against pointing a gun at a new guy and forcing him to race... unless it was necessary.As you could probably tell, I'm somewhat ambivalent about the whole topic. If the guy really could do that to Too Tall, he probably should at least be aware of the possibility, so I fundamentally agree with your approach, sans gun. But I figured the 'he should race' perspective would be well represented here and figured I'd throw out the other possibility, just to have it represented. OTOH, I think Kevan's take on what happened to the poor guy is probably about right :beer:

-Ray

[dbrk]

i understand why grant would say that because then there would be one more old touring bike on ebay and the guy would be digging some slick race bike after trying it... but the concept still eludes me.


Grant Petersen doesn't need me to "defend" him here or elsewhere but why you would say this is beyond me. (Would any comparable deprecating remark about Ben, JPW, RS, or TK go unnoticed?) Grant was himself an accomplished racer in his day and is still strong as an ox (I've ridden up that mountain with him more than once). Mark and Robert at Riv are both racers and both ride Rivendells. I own a Rivendell that was raced by a very accomplished guy on the UVa Cycling Team; it's just a normal early period Rivendell, as good for racing as any other bike, and the guy won...alot. There are all sorts of ways to enjoy cycling, including racing and not racing. No one I know understands this better than
Grant Petersen, who builds bikes to his preference but knows as much about building bikes as any living soul. Just one fella's opinion, of course.

dbrk

[Too Tall]

Y'all are hilarious :) Grant Peterson makes great points but loses me when he suggests showering in your touring cloths and leaving a soap film to ward off smelly pits ;) I mean reeeallllly! The point ain't lost and trust me I would not have said a word if this guy wasn't riding a Waterford in full Record kit and a Gucci commuter bag on his back and OBVIOUSLY loving life and OBVIOUSLY trying to crush me....the tell tale sign was all the "look backs" to see if he'd cracked me...sheesh!

Intersting reply from him when I first asked the question, he said "you've given me something to think about and since I've stopped litigating the challenge could be very intersting".

Watch out, assasin in the making :) Honest, this dewd has some massive legs and not an ounce of fat. The suk'r pushed his 53X12 the entire time...it hurt to watch BUT CAN YOU IMAGINE how strong he is??? WOW.

I'm def. going to contact him again and see if the seed was planted and sprouts.

HAHA, it works both way. I've had numerous racer "dewds" who don't recognize me in my courier disguse (apologies to real deal FIXED) and say things like "do you have a race bike" or "have you ever raced bikes?"...I grin and take it like a man "yeah, good idea" is the usual response :cool:

[Fixed]

bro I know this cat who is 51 years old can drop shook and can ride with the cat 1 2 's and never races . i don't get it but i respect and like the bro .
cheers

[stevep]

Grant Petersen doesn't need me to "defend" him here or elsewhere but why you would say this is beyond me. (Would any comparable deprecating remark about Ben, JPW, RS, or TK go unnoticed?) Grant was himself an accomplished racer in his day and is still strong as an ox (I've ridden up that mountain with him more than once). Mark and Robert at Riv are both racers and both ride Rivendells. I own a Rivendell that was raced by a very accomplished guy on the UVa Cycling Team; it's just a normal early period Rivendell, as good for racing as any other bike, and the guy won...alot. There are all sorts of ways to enjoy cycling, including racing and not racing. No one I know understands this better than
Grant Petersen, who builds bikes to his preference but knows as much about building bikes as any living soul. Just one fella's opinion, of course.

dbrk

my reference was in no way to demean grant. i know him and have done business before with him. my reference was ( if you read above ) to the peterson rule that you should not introduce some fast guy to racing because it may cause confusion/ excess race related stress or some other issue.
i also am not inferring that grant cannot ride or that he does not know bikes. the man knows bikes for certain....although his tide certainly runs against general public opinion.
you do have to admit ...and grant himself would not deny , that there is an eccentric side to the man...but thats not for me to judge or to care about.
the question that i sought to answer was.
" why not introduce a strong rider to race..."
reread it and put down the kool aid.
i love grant, but grant does not know all.
if ben, richie, whoever you want to list showed similar eccentricity believe me they would be game to take shots at thats the price of fame and a strong public opinion.
another fellas opinion to which he is entitled.

[Ray]

Y'all are hilarious :) Grant Peterson makes great points but loses me when he suggests showering in your touring cloths and leaving a soap film to ward off smelly pits ;) I mean reeeallllly!
Hey, I'm a Riv guy, and Grant often loses me too, but showering in your touring clothes is a good way to wash 'em on the road and you don't know from deodorant until you've left some Grandpa's Pine Tar residue in yer pits.

Yeah, reallllly!

I promise not to do either of these things this weekend in DC though :cool:

-Ray

[dbrk]

snip...reread it and put down the kool aid.
i love grant, but grant does not know all.
if ben, richie, whoever you want to list showed similar eccentricity believe me they would be game to take shots at thats the price of fame and a strong public opinion.
another fellas opinion to which he is entitled.

The first bit here about the kool aid is unnecessary, don' t you think?

I too would never recommend racing to anyone. A guy who can ride fast knows there is racing, even bike clubs and group rides. He needs me to suggest this? Claiming no more omniscience that would GP, I find his suggestion to lay off a good thing, a respectful thing.

Now that this fella' was trying to run ol'TooTall off his wheel, that's a good story. Why do we do these things? I suppose I have not one competitive bone left in my cycling body. To each his own.

dbrk

[stevep]

when i was 20 and just riding around on my bike...some guy came up to me and said..."hey, you oughta try racing" i had really never thought about it until that time.
i did and 37 years later am still doing it and involved at a pretty high level racing a little and running a team.

i cannot imagine why you/grant/ anyone would object to this comment from anyone....although you seem to.
why you / gp may not decide to make this comment matters not to me... but why you/ he would object to the concept of pointing out the possibility by someone else ( too tall ) smacks of drinking too much rivendell kool aid.
let the guy decide for himself...maybe he has raced, maybe he hates it, maybe he never thought that he could hack it...
go for it too tall... get that kid stomping...if he wins his first race i'll buy you a drink....just not kool aid.

let it go. its not that big an issue.

[jerk]

why are the jerk's pals fighting? for your punishment dbrk has to ride fstrhnu's wheel for three intervals and stevep has to stop crying about the weather and ride in the rain with full wrap fenders and a rain coat on a pimpin herse.

deal guys?

jerk

[Sandy]

I am wondering how such a wonderful story could start a thread that would deteriorate so quickly.


Deteriorating slowly,


Slow Sandy

[sspielman]

why are the jerk's pals fighting?

jerk


None of your beeswax....oh...never mind...poor choice of words....

[Too Tall]

It didn't deteriorate, had me howling.
A mark of friendship is that we can express strong opinion without personal insult or consequences beyong near term misunderstanding.

Good one Senor'.

[dbrk]

None of your beeswax....oh...never mind...poor choice of words....

Now _that_ was funny...
Mmmm...beeswax. Best drunk with kool aid.

Deal. I accept the jerk's penance with due contrition. I'm going downstairs to ride some rollers and warm up for riding fstrthnu's wheel. Can we take a interval at the MacGregor's Pub in Canandaigua? Ask Robb, he knows all about the fine selection. We should make this a mandatory stop at the Ramble's time trial.

Rain all over today. 'Never meant to rain on TooTall's story either. I think too I'm plum outta' suggestions about most anything. Gotta run, need to prepare my stinky parts with a layer of Granpas!

dbrk

[Roy E. Munson]

If we all stopped talking to dorks, wouldn't this forum disappear? :banana:

[jerk]

If we all stopped talking to dorks, wouldn't this forum disappear?


yeah. the whole place would be following us outside anyway.

jerk

[Birddog]

The problem with racing as I see it, is that it can become all consuming and start to take the fun out of riding. I race occasionally, and I do alright, and probably could do a lot better if I trained to race, instead of training "stupid". I don't train to race, because although I enjoy the decent results that I usually get in a race, I don't enjoy getting into the obsessive/compulsive pattern that would make me more successful. I also don't relish the thought of packing up every weekend for a different race and racking up the miles to get there. I'd much rather ride with my pals and maybe go longer. Great story though TT, and just maybe this guy will like it and keep it in perspective too. Sounds like a time trial would be a good place for him to start, road race tactics for the uninitiated can kill the budding rider's spirit if they're not savvy.

Birddog

[Too Tall]

DOH! Check the big brain on BirdDog :) You are correct and I failed to mention that the district time trial champs is infact what I was pitching to this cat and he agreed it would be cool NOT to bump elbows...good call BD.

Hey! Hoo TF let Roy out?

[Grant McLean]

The problem with racing as I see it, is that it can become all consuming and start to take the fun out of riding. I race occasionally, and I do alright, and probably could do a lot better if I trained to race, instead of training "stupid". I don't train to race, because although I enjoy the decent results that I usually get in a race, I don't enjoy getting into the obsessive/compulsive pattern that would make me more successful. I also don't relish the thought of packing up every weekend for a different race and racking up the miles to get there. I'd much rather ride with my pals and maybe go longer. Great story though TT, and just maybe this guy will like it and keep it in perspective too. Sounds like a time trial would be a good place for him to start, road race tactics for the uninitiated can kill the budding rider's spirit if they're not savvy.

Birddog

Great post.

None of my former racer pals even ride anymore. I stopped racing, and started
enjoying the fast rides. I "train" for races I never enter. I do some TT's every
year, just to get a reference check, but when the young buck racer pals are
taking days off work to drive to events far and wide, i'm out riding, or at home
with my sore legs on the couch...

g

[keno]

A very unhappy day was the one on which the Power Tap died for good. A very happy day, much more so than the unhappy one, was my first ride without it. The desire to replace it seems to have died completely.

BTW, Sandy, are you new to this forum? As half lifes go, nothing special here.

keno

[TimB]

I have never raced bikes. For me, it's always been just plain fun to ride fast, and I think racing could have spoiled that for me. I swam competitively for a long time - twenty years ago - and still cannot get in a pool and swim laps without NEEDING to swim faster than everyone around me. The competitive nature has taken away most of the enjoyment. I never wanted that to happen to me and cycling.

[bcm119]

I have never raced bikes. For me, it's always been just plain fun to ride fast, and I think racing could have spoiled that for me. I swam competitively for a long time - twenty years ago - and still cannot get in a pool and swim laps without NEEDING to swim faster than everyone around me. The competitive nature has taken away most of the enjoyment. I never wanted that to happen to me and cycling.
Sounds exactly like my story, except replace "twenty" [years ago] with "ten". ;) I race occasionally, but only because its fun. When I was swimming, riding my bike was all about getting away from the competitive atmosphere, having a good time with non-competitive friends, and still getting the blood flowing. I try pretty hard to keep it closer to that than getting sucked into bike racing entirely.

As for the original topic, I tend to think people who are fit are aware of bike racing and will choose to do it if they want... and if they don't they probably have valid reasons, whatever they may be. There are many folks who easily have the fitness to ride with a 4/5 race, but don't want to. The idea of "wasted talent" seems odd to me... its not being wasted if it allows him to ride and enjoy his bike. Fitness isn't just for going fast, its also makes a long ride easier and more comfortable.

[Too Tall]

Great thread :)
I find this really interesting.
In 1984 I was racing mtn. bikes and decided to make a move to road training. My GF was a national caliber racerette and she asked me what my "goal(s)" were. My reply was to be able to train with folks who raced. Why? Because they really "got it" in so far as how to really have a good time training and not get into mean spirited riding habits too often found at local club levels. I very much enjoy a romp with my team as well as most of the other local teams because the rides are controlled and everyone is interested in chatting OR going hard...but we know the deal.

My racing mentor Jimmy taught me the rules for what he called a "birdie ride". This is what you call a ride where friends who race or could race are invited to come out for a romp. Jim's rules are as follows:
1. Only the ride leader knows the directions.
2. EVERYONE is allowed an unruly outburst, it is in our nature afterall.
3. Spend most of the time riding handlebar to handlebar.

Got to say, the formula works and saturday at NoOttrott that's EXACTLY what I hope happens for the long ride. Lots of talking, not many stops and everyone is allowed to be a spaz ONCE or twice!!!

TimB, Keno, Zap, Fly, Smiley, Bambi, Bugsplatbuddabob, Manet, T.K, and all the rest of youz know how to ride in a friendly group. You guys can hang with me anytime...can I do the same? :)

[stevep]

hey, i did my ride in the rain ...did not start in the rain...but sure finished once again in the rain....had no time to stick the fenders back on so i got double soaked...
had to walk over 1 collapsed bridge, get a ride in a pick up truck over a 2 ft deep washout, pedal through 3-4 more 6" washouts.
phew...but worth it.

did check out 1 colonial stone bridge from something like 1720. still perfect, all stone, water raging through and seemingly unperturbed.
those guys knew how to build a bridge for sure. beautiful. the collapsed bridge was rebuilt in 2004...was not the same construction company.

[shinomaster]

I get passed on a bike path but a dork on a decent univega wearing jogging shorts and tennis shoes. He turns a huge gear while in the drops. He looks about 45 years old. No helmet or real bike gear.....one fast mo-fo.

[Fixed]

he is a bro that's all i.m.h.o.

[Too Tall]

What Fixed said, you are always on the note my man :)

TODAY the assassin and I nearly collide!!! It is dark and I'm riding a steady (paltry 22mph) and I look back to make sure I can pull over and pass a runner...I drift left some....woops there is a bright light up my kazoo..wooooosh!!! My assasin nearly takes me out as he says "hey Josh nice to see you" ;) Hehe. I gave him what for than immediately regretted being so mean 'cause as Fixed said he is a Bro.

Update. Our guy did not race in the districts. Could not figure out how or where to register but at least he wanted to and tried. I gave him my card...yes people still do that sort of thing...and no it didn't have my e-mail address I LIKE to talk (gasp). We plan to meet and work out a strategy for upcoming 07' season. BTW the guy is as fast as ever and now that I can see him in the light should have played Rugby. Ouch.

Yes folks, you and me ain't doodly. The joint is sick with Greg Lemonds sporting beer guts and some just doin' their thing.

Hoping to put a name with the assasin's name soon.

[dgauthier]

Today I am "stalked" by some big legged assasin for a few miles. After sizing me up sufficently (. . . ) ...the tell tale sign was all the "look backs" to see if he'd cracked me...sheesh!


Now, uh, I wasn't there, but all these actions on the part of the other cyclist could be interpreted differently. What you took as "stalking" and "sizing you up sufficiently" could simply be waiting until it's safe to pass. "Looking back" might not be to see if you've cracked, but to see if you're nearby, in case he wants to brake, or pull left around a jogger, or . . .

Especially when one considers this fellow "had no idea how fast he was", he would naturally assume you are as fast or faster than he is, and so he would wait to see if it's worth passing you, and, after having done so, would want to see if he's now in your way.

Just my take on it.

Added:
"TODAY the assassin and I nearly collide!!!"

I rest my case. This guy isn't taunting you. He just rides alone, he knows he has no group riding skills, and is very cautious near other cyclists. (Ask me how I can look into this guy's mind and know this. Hint: I only ride alone.) Now that you're going to get to know this guy, post back and let me know if I called it.

[palincss]

i cannot understand why you would not say to the guy..." hey, you might like racing, you're pretty fast"

i understand why grant would say that because then there would be one more old touring bike on ebay and the guy would be digging some slick race bike after trying it... but the concept still eludes me.



It was "you ought to race, you should race" that was the issue.

[Too Tall]

Dgauthier is probably right. Anywho we are going to be friends and I'm still in shock how friggin fast he is. VERY excited he wants to race.

[slowgoing]

That's my story. I talk to dorks.

What makes him a "dork?"

[Too Tall]

That's me being evil and no caffeine in the AM and feeling as if I was being stalked by some goon. It gets old yah know? Riding to work and Fred with his new bike and $600 light blows by me and blows up 10 feet in front of me...at 6am....it gets old. So, I admit to being evil that day ok? I'm over it. Telling the story as I did explains that we all need to take a step back before judgement. kapish? It's about me being the dork...not him.

Thanks for asking.