Torque load on wheelset...

[jimbolina]

My dial-in torque wrench malfunctioned today.

I was torquing down a Phil Wood bottom bracket and the wrench never seemed to click. Like an idiot, I kept applying force thinking that click would come any second...

It didn't.

I now realize I grossly over-torqued the BB. The bearings were seized and the spindle could not turn. Rats!!

I did this with the bike standing free of a stand, simply leaning against a wall. The reason I bring that detail up is could I have also applied too much load to the wheelset as well (as I applied the torque pushing down toward the ground) potentially deforming the rims or spokes?

I know that sounds silly but after that huge BB screw-up it's easy for me to look at this mess and see other potential errors.

By the way, I assume my BB Is damaged, as it seems harder to rotate once I loosened and put the proper torque on it...

[AngryScientist]

are we talking about a square taper phil BB? based on their design, i dont even see how it's possible to over torque one, the cartridge BB sits on the shoulders of the cups, i highly doubt you damaged the BB itself, maybe just the cups. alu cups i assume, or stainless?

[Mark McM]

in a word, no, you did not damage the wheel with excessive torque.

Firstly, it was unlikely that you torqued the BB cups with the cranks attached, so there could be no torque transmitted to the rear wheel through the chain

Even if the right crank was attached and you were tightening the left cup, the left cup (on both BSC and Italian BBs) tighten in the opposite direction to crank drive rotation, so the ratchet mechanism in the freehub would prevent torque transfer to the rear wheel.

Even if you somehow managed to transmit all the torque to the rear wheel, it still wouldn't have damaged the wheel. Even very high torque loads create small stresses on the rear wheel components, because torque loads are distributed across all the spokes nearly equally, as compared to weight bearing loads which distribute loads to only a few spokes in the Load Affected Zone (LAZ) at the bottom of the wheel. With a low enough gear You can apply enough drive torque to lift the front of the bike off the ground, and rear wheels are not damage by "popping a wheelie" in this manner.

The ability of to damage a rear wheel by pedaling so hard as to over-torque a wheel exists only in the minds and egos of riders.

[oldpotatoe]

My dial-in torque wrench malfunctioned today.

I was torquing down a Phil Wood bottom bracket and the wrench never seemed to click. Like an idiot, I kept applying force thinking that click would come any second...

It didn't.

I now realize I grossly over-torqued the BB. The bearings were seized and the spindle could not turn. Rats!!

I did this with the bike standing free of a stand, simply leaning against a wall. The reason I bring that detail up is could I have also applied too much load to the wheelset as well (as I applied the torque pushing down toward the ground) potentially deforming the rims or spokes?

I know that sounds silly but after that huge BB screw-up it's easy for me to look at this mess and see other potential errors.

By the way, I assume my BB Is damaged, as it seems harder to rotate once I loosened and put the proper torque on it...

I install the Phil in my Moots with 2 tools on Phil handles and I pull on these as hard as I can when installing and it does nothing to the smoothness of the bearings. I wonder if the threads of the BB shell aren't cut parallel placing a side load on the bearings when you tighten it. I also use grease in BB shell and between cups(steel) and BB.

[jimbolina]

The cups are aluminum, Italian threading. I may have indeed damaged these cups. I haven't pulled the assembly out yet. Still bumming, I guess.

I used ample grease on all components and used the two Phil cup installation tools to Complete the assembly. On the actual torquing sequence, I stood beside the bike and pushed down on the torque wrench and like I stated, ending up accidently over-torquing the installation.

The reason I fear damage to the BB is because I had it carefully installed earlier last week with the proper torque (29 ft lbs as per Phill Wood instructions) and the spindle spun pretty freely then, at least for a cartridge BB. The threads seemed cut properly as I was able to successfully install that BB with easy spinning.

Wish I hadn't gone back and messed with the darn thing as it was basically fine. I simply wanted to perfectly align the BB within the shell and that's when everything started slowly going awry...

It does still spin once I loosened it up and reapplied the CORRECT torque, but I'm almost certain the spin feels a tad more labored.

Man!

[jimbolina]

in a word, no, you did not damage the wheel with excessive torque.

Firstly, it was unlikely that you torqued the BB cups with the cranks attached, so there could be no torque transmitted to the rear wheel through the chain

Even if the right crank was attached and you were tightening the left cup, the left cup (on both BSC and Italian BBs) tighten in the opposite direction to crank drive rotation, so the ratchet mechanism in the freehub would prevent torque transfer to the rear wheel.

Even if you somehow managed to transmit all the torque to the rear wheel, it still wouldn't have damaged the wheel. Even very high torque loads create small stresses on the rear wheel components, because torque loads are distributed across all the spokes nearly equally, as compared to weight bearing loads which distribute loads to only a few spokes in the Load Affected Zone (LAZ) at the bottom of the wheel. With a low enough gear You can apply enough drive torque to lift the front of the bike off the ground, and rear wheels are not damage by "popping a wheelie" in this manner.

The ability of to damage a rear wheel by pedaling so hard as to over-torque a wheel exists only in the minds and egos of riders.

Mark, I guess my fear is that I was simply pushing down so hard on that bottom bracket area and that force would translate directly into over-loading the wheels, which would probably never get that sort of load in real life.

No, the crank was not yet installed, but that utter downward force I ended-up exerting really bothers me. Heck, for all I know I may also have applied to much force to the aluminum frameset.

I know I'm a worry-wart but I feel in this case it may be justified!

[Mark McM]

Mark, I guess my fear is that I was simply pushing down so hard on that bottom bracket area and that force would translate directly into over-loading the wheels, which would probably never get that sort of load in real life.

Were you using a 10 ton press to push down on the torque wrench? If you were only pushing down with your own body weight, then you wouldn't have stressed the wheels any more that during normal. Less, actually, since you can generate greater then a 1 g load when hitting a bump.

Even if you consider off-axis loading, you'll put more side load on the wheels (and frame) when you stand up and stomp on the pedals while leaning your bike side to side (as in a sprint).

[parallelfish]

My routine is to work up in steps. Tighten to a couple of intermediate values prior to the final value. That way I know the wrench is functioning properly before things get critical.

No way you could have applied enough force to damage the wheels.

[dgauthier]

(…) If you were only pushing down with your own body weight, then you wouldn't have stressed the wheels any more that during normal.(…)

+1. The frame and wheels are designed to support much more than your own body weight. If the wheels and frame aren't bent, they're fine. There's no hidden damage.

For example, this bike is fine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhabgvIIXik

[jimbolina]

All the thoughtful comments and helpful insight was great! Thanks everyone.

[Louis]

Mark, I guess my fear is that I was simply pushing down so hard on that bottom bracket area and that force would translate directly into over-loading the wheels, which would probably never get that sort of load in real life.

In this scenario unless you're the strongest, heaviest guy in the world, there's no way that you did any damage at all to the wheels. You just couldn't apply enough force to do that.