New Campagnolo crank-set...

[catulle]

I had the opportunity to see on Campy Only a drawing of the new Campagnolo crank-set. According to the way the new system is depicted in the picture, what would be the spindle is a hollow tube cut in two, each half attached to a crank and with serrated ends which engage with each other at the middle of the bb. Both halves spin on bearings ensconsed within the threaded ends of the bb.

I guess this system must be bomb-proof if it is the same Shimano uses. Of course, being Shimano, it is more like firecracker-proof. Anyway, based on my dubious common sense, it seems to me that the new system cannot possibly be anything as sturdy as the current Campagnolo set-up. That is, if you apply extraordinary force on the pedals (in my case, just a little force) the most vulnerable point would seem to be precisely the point in the hollow tube where both serrated ends engage. If you bend a stick excerting pressure at both ends of the stick, it will break right on the middle.

If the idea is to shed weight (is it?), maybe a hollow but wider than the present spindle should do the job. I've never seen a disassembled Shimano crank-set, so I don't know how different or similar the new Campagnolo system might be; but from the picture I saw, I wonder if the new Campy crank-set is a good thing, atmo.

Thank you so much for trying to understand my very awkward explanation, atmo. Hey, cheers...!

[e-RICHIE]

snipped for clarity
I had Both halves within the threaded ends of the bb.

I guess this system it is more like firecracker-proof. my dubious common sense, seems the new.

I've never seen a the picture I saw atmo.

Thank you so much for trying to understand my very awkward explanation, atmo. Hey, cheers...!


hey -
what's 3mm anyway atmo?

[Fixed]

bro why can't they just leave stuff alone ? what's the point if we were all on the same stuff it would level the playing field .i.m.h.o. that would be a good thing
cheers

[David Kirk]

The way that Shimano and the new Campy secure the arms and spindles is the same way dragster rear wheels are fixed to the drive axles.

They aren't going anywhere.

Dave

[saab2000]

I would imagine that the BB shell must be extremely precise in terms of width. The way I have seen the drawing there appears to be no adjustability for width.

I imagine there is some way, but I don't see it.

[Serpico]

bro why can't they just leave stuff alone ? what's the point if we were all on the same stuff it would level the playing field .i.m.h.o. that would be a good thing
cheers


planned obsolescence greases the wheels of commerce, atmo

[Erik.Lazdins]

It would appear that the see-through bb is perfect for trapping a lot of mud during a messy ride.

Will they offer the Campy ram-rod to clean out the bb from the primordial ooze that gets trapped in it.

I'm happy with the current bb set up as it lasts.

Will they offer both? I hope so.

[zank]

I just hope they go with 110 mm BCD on their Record and Chorus compacts. That proprietary size on their current carbon compacts is silly. And while they are at it, maybe switch the road cranks to 130 mm BCD.

[Too Tall]

Looking to buy SRAM stock options today :rolleyes:

[flydhest]

snipped for clarity



hey -
what's 3mm anyway atmo?

all I can muster in my ho.

[e-RICHIE]

snipped for clarity
my ho.

is this a flygirl reference atmo

[flydhest]

snipped for clarity




is this a bris reference?

[e-RICHIE]

is this a bris reference?
lawyers don't work for tips

[Too Tall]

...no, however Travel Luggage Bag makers do.

(RIM SHOT)

[dave thompson]

...no, however Travel Luggage Bag makers do.
....."then you kiss it and it turns into a 3-suiter!"

[e-RICHIE]

....."then you kiss it and it turns into a 3-suiter!"


we need 6 more for a minion.
or 5, if we get Roy E. Munsonstein.

[terrytnt]

My understanding is that the New Campy crank-set is available NOW. If you check their web-site http://www.campagnolo.com/home.php the new campy crank-set is shown for all record group-sets including CT.

I'm of the viewpoint this is a good thing, the older crank-set was dated technology and one would have to assume (with all the time Campy had to design & plan for this crank) the 'new crank-set' should be a vast improvement over the older model. But I certainly can't speak from experience.

I'm also assuming, it's available NOW for purchase (since it's listed in the '06 catalogue.

By the way, if you want to personally contact someone at Campy (who speaks English)... how do you do so?

[e-RICHIE]

I'm also assuming, it's available NOW for purchase (since it's listed in the '06 catalogue.

it is?
i can't find it in my catalogue atmo.

By the way, if you want to personally contact someone at Campy (who speaks English)... how do you do so?
i can get a message to them -
i sit next to them in shul.
lmk.

[Too Tall]

We really should take this act to the catskills. We'd slay the iron lung crowd.

Terrytnt - I'll try to curb my enthusiasm, yippee. How on earth could anything on a bicycle be a vast improvment? Ein-frickin-stein (one more for the minion) couldn't, Butch Cassidy couldn't and Campy shore won't! That "thingee" is just a catch up item so that mechanics at shops can R&R your wallet faster with less brains or talent!!! OR you could be an optimist and say "well, it certainly pays to stick with the latest technology so that my shop can better support me and my machina'". Yeah that's it.

OK, I'm being very sarcastic and don't mean to offend you Terry I'm just disgusted in general with design changes that make huge swipes of amazing equipment effectively obsolete. Bikes and fundamental technology they use IS infact enduring and will persevere despite thingees I don't love. I'll resist, but only a little ;)

[e-RICHIE]

We really should take this act to the catskills. We'd slay the iron lung crowd.

Terrytnt - I'll try to curb my enthusiasm, yippee. How on earth could anything on a bicycle be a vast improvment?


let's drop the gloves.
there are only 3 ways to improve a bicycle atmo
1) a motor
2) a dr ferrari
3) an rc burrito yo

[jerk]

let's drop the gloves.
there are only 3 ways to improve a bicycle atmo
1) a motor
2) a dr ferrari
3) an rc burrito yo


man,
the jerk knew he was missing something. thanks for the heads-up. you think there's hope for the next generation? will usa cycling adopt the jerk's children? or does he have to mail them to dr. ferrari? is there a creche at the olympic training center?

jerk

[catulle]

man,
will usa cycling adopt the jerk's children?
jerk

Depends who you know, atmo. He,he,he... Someone is clonning Latin American politics (which includes Florida, of course, iirc)...

[christian]

I'm of the viewpoint this is a good thing, the older crank-set was dated technology and one would have to assume (with all the time Campy had to design & plan for this crank) the 'new crank-set' should be a vast improvement over the older model.

This is a joke right? They had about 70 years to get the tapered spindle press-fit design right, and it works fine, ATMO. Think they've been developing this for 70 years? Who's to say it won't be another Octalink/ISIS bungle?

I for one, would not assume there will be any 'improvement' beyond the current design.

BTW, I don't know what Campy website you're on, but the one I see just shows a traditional-spindle aluminum Centaur CT crank...

[Too Tall]

Senor' - yes, it's the best show in town Dec 10 thru Dec 25. If you pull the sheeps tail 2 vials of EPO fall out of the burro's mouth. Shhhh, don't tell.

[catulle]

Senor' - yes, it's the best show in town Dec 10 thru Dec 25. If you pull the sheeps tail 2 vials of EPO fall out of the burro's mouth. Shhhh, don't tell.

Shhh....

[Grant McLean]

This is a joke right? They had about 70 years to get the tapered spindle press-fit design right, and it works fine, ATMO. Think they've been developing this for 70 years? Who's to say it won't be another Octalink/ISIS bungle?

I for one, would not assume there will be any 'improvement' beyond the current design.
...


Actually, more like 100 years. The spline axle predates the tapered square.
When I visited the Guggenheim motorcycle exhibt, there were several
examples of pedal assist motorcycles from the turn of the century with
very "isis" looking cranks... these are not "new" designs.

IMHO, octalink worked just fine too, the isis was the only one with the
widespread bearing issues. I don't think those two should get lumped together.


g

[terrytnt]

Man you guys are sensitive! ;) I have to chuckle when riding these posts!

Perhaps I'm totally off-base (which is true most the time), my buddies with record have the 'square crank' which I believe that purchased 3-4 years ago.

As I select components for my new bike, I noticed the displayed record crank-set is totally different, assuming that's their new design (2006)... but what the hell do I know!!! Based on looks (can't speak to function)... in my humble opinion it's an improvement.

Spoken from an 'n' of one

[Grant McLean]

As I select components for my new bike, I noticed the displayed record crank-set is totally different, assuming that's their new design (2006)... but what the hell do I know!!! Based on looks (can't speak to function)... in my humble opinion it's an improvement.



based on looks... the 2007 cranks look green.


g

[jerk]

based on looks... the 2007 cranks look green.


g


based on looks it looks like a bottom bracket facing tool...but what the hell does the jerk know.

jerk

[e-RICHIE]

based on looks it looks like a bottom bracket facing tool...but what the hell does the jerk know.

jerk

you're faced atmo

[Dr. Doofus]

zinc chromate

like the inside of a B-24

coolness

too bad they'll be carbon irl

[christian]

IMHO, octalink worked just fine too, the isis was the only one with the widespread bearing issues. I don't think those two should get lumped together.

Yeah, the Octalink bearings worked ok, but the crank/bb interface on the left crank arm failed if you stand right foot forward. I went through 2 left crankarms in 6 months.

Don't get me wrong, I think splined interfaces are a good idea, but the idea that there is something "wrong" with the tapered square spindle is misguided, and so far, none of the prior offerings have shown to be an improvement. Maybe Campy will, but I'll reserve judgement until I've ridden it.

- Christian

[jerk]

you're faced atmo


thanks.
the jerk thinks.

[Grant McLean]

Yeah, the Octalink bearings worked ok, but the crank/bb interface on the left crank arm failed if you stand right foot forward. I went through 2 left crankarms in 6 months.

Don't get me wrong, I think splined interfaces are a good idea, but the idea that there is something "wrong" with the tapered square spindle is misguided, and so far, none of the prior offerings have shown to be an improvement. Maybe Campy will, but I'll reserve judgement until I've ridden it.

- Christian

That's too bad you had an unfortunate experience with Octalink.
As a shop guy, with about 10,000 octilink bikes that have gone
through here in the last couple of seasons... your experience is
not widespread. Octalink was solid at retail. With square taper,
there are always cheap bikes where the left crank "falls off".

Standing on the floor of a bike shop, you hear all the time from
customers who think that the square is old, out dated, heavy,
not stiff, and creaky. Sometimes it's just the right thing to do
to give the customer's what they want, regardless of the validity
of their concerns. The new crank/bb from campy is rumored to
be 100grams lighter. If that's true, people will be excited to buy
them. Good or bad? Good for business...

g

[goonster]

Yeah, the Octalink bearings worked ok, but the crank/bb interface on the left crank arm failed if you stand right foot forward. I went through 2 left crankarms in 6 months.

The splines with radiused ends were a decent design on paper that might have been more succesful in reality if riders could have been trained to check their crank bolts with a torque wrench weekly.

the idea that there is something "wrong" with the tapered square spindle is misguided

+1

your experience is
not widespread. Octalink was solid at retail. With square taper,
there are always cheap bikes where the left crank "falls off".


Perhaps not, but Christian is not the only guy this happened to.

This was a flaw inherent in the design, and not a function of user error or poor maintenance.

Standing on the floor of a bike shop, you hear all the time from
customers who think that the square is old, out dated, heavy,
not stiff, and creaky.

These are the Campy riders justifying their envy of Shimano's "newer" design, right? I hear it too. Doesn't make it valid.

Sometimes it's just the right thing to do
to give the customer's what they want, regardless of the validity
of their concerns.

Look where that got us. Ugg boots and square-toed men's shoes . . . :crap:

[Grant McLean]

I doubt that any designer at Campagnolo will think their new design
is inferior to the sqaure. They'll say the square was great, and now
they have something that is even better.

IMHO, ATMO, YMMV

g

[Too Tall]

Let's see what they have to say in Shul after the bracha.

Grant, I'd say you are 110% right IF it results in the factory shutting down for an extra week in the summer ;)

[93legendti]

we need 6 more for a minion.
or 5, if we get Roy E. Munsonstein.

Hmm, minion or minyan?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/minyan
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Minion

Maybe you mean a golem? :)

[e-RICHIE]

Hmm, minion or minyan?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/minyan
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Minion

Maybe you mean a golem? :)


oops
minyan atmo

[93legendti]

oops
minyan atmo
I thought so. 10 years of Hillel Day School pays off again! BTW, minion also means a million onions...

[MartyE]

pinyan a ben?

(shivers as he remembers too many years of hebrew school holding up
the wall)

[bluesea]

As long as it still looks like a bicycle.

[Fixed]

bro now i can be the weird guy with the steel bike and that heavy steel fork and those stupid d.t. shifters and the old square taper crank it getting better all the time ...i.m.h.o.
cheers

[93legendti]

pinyan a ben?

(shivers as he remembers too many years of hebrew school holding up
the wall)

I pray you are kidding. Pidyon haben:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Pidyon_Haben.html

[Headwinds]

Here:

http://www.campyonly.com/rumors/2006/ultratorque.html

[christian]

Ok, to be fair, if you're going to transfer high torque loads, a Hirth coupling is a good way to do it, assuming you can get enough preload on it. Apparently, Campy do have some engineers on staff. I think this is going to be a good crank.

At the very least, it won't care which foot you put in front when you stand!

- Christian

[stevep]

boy, that set-up sure looks a lot like a shimano to me... except for the split spindle... which is probably somehow a way to get around the patent issue.

[catulle]

That'll be an expensive hole in the spindle, atmo.

[e-RICHIE]

That'll be an expensive hole in the spindle, atmo.


it'd cost you more in vegas atmo

[catulle]

it'd cost you more in vegas atmo

I do reckon, atmo.

[christian]

boy, that set-up sure looks a lot like a shimano to me... except for the split spindle... which is probably somehow a way to get around the patent issue.

I actually think it's quite different. The Campagnolo system uses a Hirth coupling, where the torque is transfered because of the preload on the spindle, where the preload is set by the 10mm bolt.

The Shimano system, on the other hand, is basically a press-fit spline, like a car driveshaft/hub coupling, with a pinch bolt locking mechanism.

One thing - because the Shimano system has one larger spline, it only allows 180 degree mounting of the cranks. If the Campy system is a simple Hirth coupling, with say 24 teeth, then I think it would allow 24 different crankarm positions relative to one another... Wonder how they solved that...

Cool stuff, for sure. I can't wait to see the Campy stuff in real life!

- Christian

[catulle]

Coupling is cool, atmo.

[dave thompson]

I do reckon, atmo.
Cool, the Bunny Ranch has a forum too! I wonder if they talk about stiff bottom brackets there?

[Too Tall]

Woops. Q stayed the same...attsa plus. No new tools...attsa plus. 100 grams lighter....3 days more vacation for "the C boys". They went nose to nose with Shimano over the bearings, gotta give kudos to Campag for that...we'll see if it is so.

Sigh. I'll keep polishing my rack of square taper cranks for now.

[christian]

For me, the most interesting thing about the new Campy crankset is the following:

With both Campy and Shimano now having gone to an "external bearings" bottom bracket, OEM bicycle manufacturers are free to move to a common, larger bottom bracket shell, with the only required upgrade being new bottom bearing cups - all other parts for both a Hollowtech II and Campy crankset could be reused.

Who wants to bet that'll be the big improvement for 2009. MORE AERODYNAMIC! BEARINGS INSIDE THE SHELL! EVEN STIFFER!

- Christian

[Too Tall]

Than a nod to Phil Wood for THAT concept.
A larger BB shell will trim frame weight...wait for it...wait for it...
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yippee
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Thunk