Fall Buyers Guide: How to Not Buy A Gravel Bike

[Keith A]

I just ran across what seemed like an interesting article "Fall Buyers Guide: How to Not Buy A Gravel Bike". I'm not sure how good (or bad) their advice is, but thought I'd share this here...

http://gravelandgrind.com/buyers-guide-gravel/

[guido]

Pretty wise stuff. Bravo!

[cinema]

nice article, i agree with pretty much everything. especially having 32 spoke wheels on a cross/gravel bike. i think their recommended gearing is kind of low. most in shape people would be fine with a compact/34 or 36 max. the lowest gearing i have on my dirt tourer is 30/42 and that has 3 inch tires and weighs 50 lbs fully loaded. 30/42 is crazy for basically a road bike with knobbies.

[jr59]

He does make a point

[tumbler]

A lot of truth in there.

[benb]

He's got lots of good points other than maybe the gearing.. 30x40 low gear is just crazy, crazy low. Are these bikes really supposed to be touring bikes you carry 100+ lbs of gear on and ride offroad?

I do totally agree on some of these bikes that are being sold as gravel bikes and have no rack/fender mounts, don't mount huge tires, and have "long and low" crit bike style geometry.

I still say anything is better than cantis.. no value other than retro IMO. These bikes need to stop better than cross bikes, especially if they are loaded, which he seems to think everyone should be carrying tons of weight.

[guido]

I use 30 x 36 for dirt and super hilly stuff around here. That works fine...

[saab2000]

Grumpy writer.......

The bike in his pictures is from the 1980s. Yes, it's a nice bike. But fashions change. He mentions fashion in his article. We've moved on since the 1980s and some things are better and some things aren't. Mullets are out, as are shoulder pads in suits and dresses. Man buns are in, so there is that..... :eek:

My 'gravel' bike has the following:


Disc brakes - not going back to rim brakes for this application.


Wheels - Mine are 28/28 and I did have a problem with spokes loosening. This was attributed to the rims by the builder and I think we've got it resolved but the writer may have a point. Still, I think I'm OK now. And the wobble of the wheel was not noticeable with my disc brakes. They have 135mm spacing, so his argument about bracing angle is at least partly shot down there. I was using Stan's Iron Cross rims which have an absurdly low limitation of 45 PSI. I think there's a reason it's so low - it compresses the rim and spokes loosen. I now have Pacenti SL25 rims and I think they're going to be better.


Clearance - Mine was made with gobs of clearance for huge tires. And fenders.


Material - Mine is Ti. He mentions aluminum and the same old tired arguments that it's harsh riding and easily damaged. Neither is true anymore.


Fenders - I specced fender and rack mounts when I got mine built.


Gearing - I have as low a gear as I can reasonably imagine on mine: 34x32. I don't know what to think on this as it's a personal thing, but that's a pretty low gear. For loaded touring you would want lower. But with 2 up front and 11 in the back I don't really see the point in a triple for 99+% of what I might encounter.


The writer seems more Grant Peterson-esque in his opinions that new=bad and old=good. I'm happy he enjoys his 1980s Trek. It's a fine machine. But I don't want to use its old brakes and limited functionality freewheel.

[inkandsilver]

Some good points, some flawed points in the article. Yes, grumpy. But he's not referring to your bike -- you knew what you wanted and were able to spec it. I think he's more talking about the bikes that are marketed to a broader audience, and how they are going away from the versatility that a great gravel bike can have. I don't think it's a retrogrouch thing... As your rig proves, you can have a very modern bike that is also very versatile, and I think the author would probably like it.

[Keith A]

Hey Saab -- So what is your gravel bike? (sorry if you've already posted this, I must have missed it)

[saab2000]

Hey Saab -- So what is your gravel bike? (sorry if you've already posted this, I must have missed it)

I got an Independent Fabrication a couple years ago. Sadly, I hardly ever get to ride it in its natural environment because now I live on the east coast and there are neither hills nor gravel roads where I live and not really within a couple hours of where I live. So I ride it around my apartment complex usually with street tires on, to and from my garage with dropping off empty beers at the recycling containers. It's the most expensive runabout bike ever..!! :cool:

Here's a pic of it after a real gravel ride this spring near Charlottesville, VA and another with road tires and a road sized cassette. Tons of room for bigger tires. The first pic has the bike with Michelin Jets, which come in over 30mm and as we can see, there's plenty of room for more.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7797/17901157710_53736960cc_b.jpg
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/542/20464830912_ff333f217f_b.jpg

[ceolwulf]

The grouch is strong with this one.

(Don't really disagree, I just wanted to say that)

It's a complex issue really, at the intersection of what people need and whether or not they know what they need and whether the sales efforts are oriented to setting people up with a product they will be happy with long term or just pulling in revenue by any means possible.

Nothing at all wrong with the current race-bikes-for-gravel IF that's what the buyer definitely wants. And there's also a lot of options out there that don't fit that (bordering on straw man) category.

[mhespenheide]

I got an Independent Fabrication a couple years ago.

/snip/
and another with road tires and a road sized cassette.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/542/20464830912_ff333f217f_b.jpg

This bike, and this photo, makes me wish that 3T offered stems with a yellow stripe!

[jmoore]

Swapping out the chainrings on my "gravel" bike would be a good winter project. I still have the 53/39 9sp Ultegra on there. Granted, I ride it mostly road, but would be good to give me some lower gearing for the times I am offroad.

[saab2000]

This bike, and this photo, makes me wish that 3T offered stems with a yellow stripe!

Trust me, it bothers me too.... I've been tempted to send it to IF to have them paint it but I know it would cost WAY more than the stem itself to have it done.

But yeah, that red accent bugs the heck out of me!

[guido]

Trust me, it bothers me too.... I've been tempted to send it to IF to have them paint it but I know it would cost WAY more than the stem itself to have it done.

But yeah, that red accent bugs the heck out of me!

Sounds like a job for a bottle of Testers paint and a fine brush...

[Lewis Moon]

Trust me, it bothers me too.... I've been tempted to send it to IF to have them paint it but I know it would cost WAY more than the stem itself to have it done.

But yeah, that red accent bugs the heck out of me!

Just hit it with some paint stripper and go stealth black. I just did that to get rid of the garish graphics on an FSA stem. Worked a treat.

[saab2000]

Sounds like a job for a bottle of Testers paint and a fine brush...

There's no way I could do a nice job! It would look totally hack if I tried it....

I'd like to send it to them and have the stem bead blasted to remove all paint, logos included and just have a yellow stripe painted on.

I once tried to remove some paint with acetone and it didn't do a complete job and you could still see that there had been a logo where I removed it.

This is a job for the pros at Indy Fab!

[A1CKot]

Just a few thoughts-

The disc brake vs rim brake thing is so overly exaggerated it makes me laugh. Seems to me that all thats required to make disc brakes work is a little extra bracing for the caliper mount and a positive means to keep the wheel secure. That could be thru axles or flipping the fork drop outs. My carbon fiber road fork without disc brakes is much more stiff than my steel gravel disc bike fork. Both work fine.

If a person isn't capable of checking the wear on disc pads then how is this same person going to be capable of checking rim pads and rims for excess wear. I can check the 4 different pairs of disc calipers I have the same way I can rim brakes. Look through the top at the contact surface of the pad and if it still has pad material it still good.

The specific gravel tire thing also would back up the reasons to spec disc brakes. Not all of your riding will be free of snow, rain, large down hills or low total bike/rider weigths. I also hate wearing grooves into my rims because of a little dirt, rain or snow.

Isn't the whole bracing angle argument for hub flange distance to increase wheel stiffness? The article basically says stiffness is the enemy. I have not problem with my wheels not being stiff or strong enough but I'm using 32 spokes.

The whole compact frame thing is kind of dated. Manufactures did this to consolidate sizes and give ample standover hight. I think standover hight is kind of important on a gravel bike that will have varying sized tires mounted.

Companies really can't spec different gearing for different geographical locations. Some areas may be fine with a 12-25 and compact cranks other may not be.

The article does make some real valid arguments to going custom. These variables can be controlled in a custom. A show room model is never going to meet the expectations of everyone. Compromises are made to appeal to the majority. In the end though cost will drive the end product. Many of these bikes are tweaks to an existing model.

And just for fun!
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y349/A1CKot/All%20my%20bikes/IMG_4482_zpsmkczj6gp.jpg (http://s1028.photobucket.com/user/A1CKot/media/All%20my%20bikes/IMG_4482_zpsmkczj6gp.jpg.html)

[jmoore]

Sounds like a job for a bottle of Testers paint and a fine brush...

Agreed.

Since that stripe is a straight line, it would be pretty easy to mask up the entire stem and hit it with some yellow Duplicolor and a light clear coat to cover the red.

[jmoore]

There's no way I could do a nice job! It would look totally hack if I tried it....

I'd like to send it to them and have the stem bead blasted to remove all paint, logos included and just have a yellow stripe painted on.

I once tried to remove some paint with acetone and it didn't do a complete job and you could still see that there had been a logo where I removed it.

This is a job for the pros at Indy Fab!



You could by a super cheap stem and practice on it before you attempted it on the 3T.

[Keith A]

Saab -- Thanks for sharing...very nice indeed.

[saab2000]

Saab -- Thanks for sharing...very nice indeed.

Thanks! It's a really nice ride and all the credit goes to Indy Fab. I just wish I could ride it more on the terrain and surfaces for which it was designed.

[Lewis Moon]

There's no way I could do a nice job! It would look totally hack if I tried it....

I'd like to send it to them and have the stem bead blasted to remove all paint, logos included and just have a yellow stripe painted on.

I once tried to remove some paint with acetone and it didn't do a complete job and you could still see that there had been a logo where I removed it.

This is a job for the pros at Indy Fab!

You need to use actual paint stripper, and you'll need to reapply a couple of times.

[carlineng]

More an indictment of industry trends, not personal tastes and desires. I agree that a lot of the mainstream "gravel" bike models are silly, but I like that the the marketing emphasis is on fun and adventure as opposed to aero and watts.

[mtb_frk]

Retro grouch. It reminds me of the Simpsons episode where homer is musing that rock achieved perfection in 1974.

I like the part about only riding dirt 20% of time so why have larger tires. My average ride would be less than 1% pavement. I feel that clement 40s are not enough sometimes. If he is making broad statements about gravel bikes perhaps it should say something like if you ride pavement less than 20% of time big tires may not be appropriate.

[etu]

Have to disagree with the author's diatribe against bikes that are not versatile. Like many on this forum, i am fortunate enough to have several bikes and one way I justify having them is that they're different and have specific purpose, no compromises. My gravel bike is primarliy for riding fire roads and trails. My go fast bikes are for going fast (although the motor is a big limiting factor). I have one all-arounder for wet weather and travel which is enough for versatility.

[mgm777]

Okay, so I have a question for the gravel grinder aficionados. Why isn't a HT 29er an ideal choice for dirt roads?

It seems the "gravel grinder" bike concept has evolved over the last few years, from a road or cross bike that could accept wider tires to a bike with disc brakes, lower bb, fender mounts, etc... To me, this sounds a lot like what a HT 29er already is.

I don't have a dedicated "gravel grinder". I occasionally ride dirt roads, usually when the canyon I am climbing runs out of pavement and I want to keep going. I just ride my regular road bike with 23s or 25s. Climbing on dirt isn't a problem, it is the descending that can be a bit sketchy on my road bike. So, to compensate, I simply slow way down until I get to a flatter stretch of road where I feel more secure and confident. Even if I rode gravel roads exclusively, I still think a HT 29er might be the ideal tool for the job. What am I missing?

[merlinmurph]

I just wish I could ride it more on the terrain and surfaces for which it was designed.

I'd love to help you out, saab. That IF looks about my size. I can take it off your hands and make that bike very happy. In fact, I'm headed to Franklin County this weekend for some riding.

Let me know,
Murph - proud owner of an IF Planet-X

[palincss]

nice article, i agree with pretty much everything. especially having 32 spoke wheels on a cross/gravel bike. i think their recommended gearing is kind of low. most in shape people would be fine with a compact/34 or 36 max. the lowest gearing i have on my dirt tourer is 30/42 and that has 3 inch tires and weighs 50 lbs fully loaded. 30/42 is crazy for basically a road bike with knobbies.

It really depends on what sort of terrain your gravel roads are located in. Here in Northern Virginia, the gravel roads are in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. And they're old roads, many that go back to the 18th century, designed long before anyone thought about grading to level the roads. No, these gravel roads follow the nap of the earth, and in the foothills of the Blue Ridge there are many sort but very steep grades.

I'm not sure what you mean by "30/42" -- is that a 30T chain ring and a 42T sprocket? That's certainly plenty low (18")! Or is that a double crank with 30 and 42T chain rings? If the latter, then sure, with one of those 11-36 cassettes.

The author of the blog posting recommends gearing lower than what's spec'd for a loaded touring bike, and when I owned one, the Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road Tour came with an 18" low gear. The lowest gears I have on my 650B bikes are 26T chain ring and 30T large rear sprocket - that's around 22" - and there were plenty of times on the gravel I was very happy to have that low gear. I'm not sure I could have gotten any benefit out of a gear a lot lower than that (when I used the 18" low on the Bruce Gordon, it was with 50 lb of luggage on the bike) riding without a touring load.

[merlinmurph]

Okay, so I have a question for the gravel grinder aficionados. Why isn't a HT 29er an ideal choice for dirt roads?


Because they're absolute pigs on the road, especially with a shock. If you're just riding roads, even dirt roads, a mt bike is way overkill. If it's the only thing you've got, don't let that stop you - get out there and have a blast.

[saab2000]

Okay, so I have a question for the gravel grinder aficionados. Why isn't a HT 29er an ideal choice for dirt roads?



This is actually a very good question. I don't know much about bike design but it seems to me that my bike is actually fairly close to a mountain bike but with drop bars. Another main difference is that there is no suspension. Beyond those two obvious points the differences do indeed get blurry. There's little reason I couldn't ride my bike on some light single track.

I'd love to help you out, saab. That IF looks about my size. I can take it off your hands and make that bike very happy. In fact, I'm headed to Franklin County this weekend for some riding.

Let me know,
Murph - proud owner of an IF Planet-X

I'd love to help out! But I'll be out of town. If I were in town maybe I'd come out to Franklin County to join you! That's where the first picture of mine was taken (Nellysford) and it's a fantastic bike for those gravel rides. I'd love to share my toys if I were around!

[palincss]

There's no way I could do a nice job! It would look totally hack if I tried it....

I'd like to send it to them and have the stem bead blasted to remove all paint, logos included and just have a yellow stripe painted on.

I once tried to remove some paint with acetone and it didn't do a complete job and you could still see that there had been a logo where I removed it.

This is a job for the pros at Indy Fab!

Can you just cover the red up with yellow tape?

[choke]

Okay, so I have a question for the gravel grinder aficionados. Why isn't a HT 29er an ideal choice for dirt roads?

It seems the "gravel grinder" bike concept has evolved over the last few years, from a road or cross bike that could accept wider tires to a bike with disc brakes, lower bb, fender mounts, etc... To me, this sounds a lot like what a HT 29er already is.

I don't have a dedicated "gravel grinder". I occasionally ride dirt roads, usually when the canyon I am climbing runs out of pavement and I want to keep going. I just ride my regular road bike with 23s or 25s. Climbing on dirt isn't a problem, it is the descending that can be a bit sketchy on my road bike. So, to compensate, I simply slow way down until I get to a flatter stretch of road where I feel more secure and confident. Even if I rode gravel roads exclusively, I still think a HT 29er might be the ideal tool for the job. What am I missing?I suppose it would work well for some but it wouldn't be my choice at all. I prefer road geometry and I want to run drop bars. I want a lower than normal BB height which I wouldn't get on the MTB. I also don't want discs.

[ergott]

As a fan of the genre I'll put my 2 cents in.

I agree that many of the big box bikes meant for gravel adventuring are short sighted one way or another. That said there are some exceptions. I do like the Trek 920 disc. Looks pretty close to desirable right out of the box.

I think the frame/fork material complaint is obviously retro-grouch. Carbon bikes don't exactly explode when rocks hit them. Just look at the number of successful mountain bikes made of carbon. Aluminium is fine too, but I do think steel is the best choice if starting from a clean sheet of paper. Great balance of strength and cost in the custom world.

Disc is indeed the present and no longer fringe. The contradiction in the article of having low enough gears for steep climbs, but not the best brakes for the way back down is silly. Disc brake have been around long enough. With hydro from Shimano coming in with mechanical shifting you can in the game for comparatively cheap.

The bracing angle argument is meh. You are already using 32 spokes (you are, right? (yes 28 can work too)) so with good double butted spokes the wheels are strong. Even better, I'm using 27.5" rims so the wheel strength (bracing angles) is even further improved compared to 700C. That and you can use even bigger tires which is good for smaller riders like me. 700X42 would be huge for a 52cm frame.

Definitely agree that capacity for good sized tires, racks, fenders are key. There is a point about having more room in the frame for bags with a level top tube. I don't have one, but it's not a deal for me. It's worth considering.

Didn't mention lighting? DYNO!

[benb]

Even if I rode gravel roads exclusively, I still think a HT 29er might be the ideal tool for the job. What am I missing?

The need to buy more bikes! (Certainly from the perspective of the bike companies)

[ergott]

Okay, so I have a question for the gravel grinder aficionados. Why isn't a HT 29er an ideal choice for dirt roads?


No way! Still has to be a road bike and roadish geo.

Remember, plenty of people slay the gravel with just a regular road bike and some 25mm tires. I'd rather do that than a mountain bike any day.

[bironi]

I haven't read all the replies, but the brake placement on that Trek looks damn near useless.

[oldpotatoe]

I got an Independent Fabrication a couple years ago. Sadly, I hardly ever get to ride it in its natural environment because now I live on the east coast and there are neither hills nor gravel roads where I live and not really within a couple hours of where I live. So I ride it around my apartment complex usually with street tires on, to and from my garage with dropping off empty beers at the recycling containers. It's the most expensive runabout bike ever..!! :cool:

Here's a pic of it after a real gravel ride this spring near Charlottesville, VA and another with road tires and a road sized cassette. Tons of room for bigger tires. The first pic has the bike with Michelin Jets, which come in over 30mm and as we can see, there's plenty of room for more.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7797/17901157710_53736960cc_b.jpg
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/542/20464830912_ff333f217f_b.jpg

Non electronic, cable discs, non tapered, oversized head tube and fork. I dont see how you can even ride this thing.:)

[saab2000]

Non electronic, cable discs, non tapered, oversized head tube and fork. I dont see how you can even ride this thing.:)

With extreme caution!

[ergott]

I haven't read all the replies, but the brake placement on that Trek looks damn near useless.
Standard disc placement.

???

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Tickdoc]

I got an Independent Fabrication a couple years ago. Sadly, I hardly ever get to ride it in its natural environment because now I live on the east coast and there are neither hills nor gravel roads where I live and not really within a couple hours of where I live. So I ride it around my apartment complex usually with street tires on, to and from my garage with dropping off empty beers at the recycling containers. It's the most expensive runabout bike ever..!! :cool:

Here's a pic of it after a real gravel ride this spring near Charlottesville, VA and another with road tires and a road sized cassette. Tons of room for bigger tires. The first pic has the bike with Michelin Jets, which come in over 30mm and as we can see, there's plenty of room for more.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7797/17901157710_53736960cc_b.jpg
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/542/20464830912_ff333f217f_b.jpg


I like it, red stripe and all! Very nice looking bike.
I only ride gravel roads by accident, so no gravel bike need here, but if I were to try one, I'd want one just like yours.

[A1CKot]

Standard disc placement.

???

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I think he is referencing the Trek in the original article. Brake lever placement on the handlebars???

[ergott]

Oh that makes sense.

[mtb_frk]

I tried converting my 29er to a drop bar 29er for road riding. The geometry wasn't quite right or more specifically the headtube was too short to use with drop bars. I ran a long uncut fork, with a lot of spacers and the steepest stem I had. I did like the 2.1 tires but i decided I rather just ride my cross bike or just a regular 29er.

[pff]

so by his own analogy this guy sells Honda Accords and the competition sells F1 racecars. I dunno about you but as a hobbyist the latter sounds a lot more exciting to me.

[benb]

I agree that many of the big box bikes meant for gravel adventuring are short sighted one way or another. That said there are some exceptions. I do like the Trek 920 disc. Looks pretty close to desirable right out of the box.


That Trek does look pretty neat.. I'd be pretty curious if someone could explain the stock geo of that bike to me. It looks more aggressive than the Domaine, which doesn't make much sense. It's going to steer slower, but it's got more reach in every size than the Domane and you'd think you'd want to sit up more. It seems like a blast from Trek's past. It has a slacker head angle than the Domane but not enough to make much of a difference. Maybe it's fine with shorter stems though.

Of course a bike like that Trek is not that much fun unless you really need to do exactly what it was built for. It looks like a tank but maybe that's the olive drab speaking.

I thought it would be fun to own a long haul trucker.. doing a test ride kind of solved that as I know I'm not going to go take a 2 month bikepacking trip anytime soon.

[bironi]

I think he is referencing the Trek in the original article. Brake lever placement on the handlebars???

Yes, I was referring to the brake lever position.
Looking at it again, the placement is probably good.
I think it is the angle from which the photo was shot.
I've never rode that style of handlebar otherwise I may have seen the photo differently.