OT Dog fights with dogs off leash.

[Tony]

I have a male Airedale. This dog has never provoked a fight, gets along with all dogs. Today was his forth fight defending himself from again another dog off leash. While both dogs were in mutual combat I was able to kick the pitbull/german shepard mix in the ribs causing enough pain to pull apart my dog and control him. The owned came out of her home and seemed apologetic, however after seeing her dog bleeding from his neck area she blamed me for the fight because of my dog being intact. I was willing to let this go now I'm thinking of reporting this incident.
I'm thinking its time to carry a solid fiberglass rod( 1/2"wide, 2' long) while walking my dog in my neighborhood. Using this as a weapon to defend my dog from dogs off leash. Is this a bad idea?

[PQJ]

It's not a bad idea as far as self-defense is concerned. A much better idea, imo, is to report this incident to the local authorities. It is my experience that they take off-leash dog complaints seriously, especially if there's a local leash law ordinance in effect. This isn't your fight to fight, and I think all involved (you, your dog, the other dog, and its lazy a$$ owner) would be better off.

[eddief]

love dogs, hate owners...who let dogs off leash in multi-use areas, including your neighborhood sidewalks. Save the dogs, flog the owners. And yes, a fiberglass rod seems the appropriate tool.

[saab2000]

Call the police. These dogs and owners are not just a threat to your dog. They're a threat to children and cyclists and anyone who comes close to their territory. Don't wait for another incident which could have a worse outcome.

[goonster]

Can you tell us more about where this happened? Were you on a sidewalk or trail? If so, report it. You are probably not the only one walking a dog there.

Your dog being neutered or not has nothing to do with it. Owners cannot have their unrestrained dogs approach other dogs in public space without permission. End of story.

[malcolm]

Call the police. These dogs and owners are not just a threat to your dog. They're a threat to children and cyclists and anyone who comes close to their territory. Don't wait for another incident which could have a worse outcome.

This

As a dog owner it's your basic responsibility to control your dog. I'm not one for creating issues with neighbors but these things need to be reported sooner rather than later especially with it seemingly escalating. I could see you having to defend yourself or your dog and her reporting you and you wind up being in trouble without proof of a clear history.

[Tony]

A sidewalk in my neighborhood. I'm going over there now to talk to her. If I don't hear what I should I'm reporting this today.

[William]

I'm thinking its time to carry a solid fiberglass rod( 1/2"wide, 2' long) while walking my dog in my neighborhood. Using this as a weapon to defend my dog from dogs off leash. Is this a bad idea?

YMMV, but I've carried one of these running in an area that sometimes had uncontrolled aggressive dogs. Never really wanted to use it, and never had to though the sound of it cutting the air was enough to discourage one dog (It will discourage aggressive people pretty well too). Its just a piece of extruded plastic (loose the lanyard imo) but it simulates the real tool.







William

[MattTuck]

I've been told that the best way to neutralize a dog is to grab it by its back legs, wheel barrow style. And just hold it, to keep it from attacking anyone/thing.

NOt sure what to do once you get it in that position, as far as calling police or something, as your hands are occupied.

Also, if need be, you can slam the dog on a tree or on the ground (ie. if it is wild/dangerous and needs to be destroyed) (not advocating this, it is just what I've been told about in the event of a real life dog attack)

[Kirk007]

The one dog on leash one off seems to be particularly susceptible to confrontation, add it it sounds like the off-leash dog was being territorial re its space. None of this excuses the owner not controlling the dog - the key here. Two dogs under control, no problem. Any dog will defend its space - up to the owner to control that situation. Aside - not surprised your Airedale was fine - they are tough, tough dogs.

Bigger picture - I think its more complex than the leash - off or on thing although that is clearly the fail safe method of avoiding conflict. For instance, my dogs, when under voice control rather than the leash have a much better attitude towards other dogs. We understand very little of dog behavior and communication. Its always interesting to me trying to figure out what might be going on. My dogs - English Springers, generally adopt a defensive posture and attitude when approached by boxers, rottweilers, sheppards, dobermans -- big dogs, typically exhibiting alpha posture. When on leash, their options to deal are limited, so the defensive posture is usually more pronounced, often including warning barks and growls. And frankly I'm put on the defensive by large dogs exhibiting aggressive behaivor - wonder to what extent my dogs are picking up signals from me?

[Dave B]

would a pepper spray or something along thos elines be a bit less conforntational? I get the stick I really do, but if people see you beaitng a dog off of yours would it be construed the wrong way? "Gee that guy is crazy he carries a stick around just looking for trouble."

Just devil's advocate. not sure how effective the pepper srapy would be as well.

[FlashUNC]

would a pepper spray or something along thos elines be a bit less conforntational? I get the stick I really do, but if people see you beaitng a dog off of yours would it be construed the wrong way? "Gee that guy is crazy he carries a stick around just looking for trouble."

Just devil's advocate. not sure how effective the pepper srapy would be as well.

That close you're getting your own dog as well I'd imagine.

But agree with the overall sentiment. Call the authorities now.

[gdw]

A breeder we know uses one of these to break up fights between her dogs.

http://www.amazon.com/Miller-SS-36-Sabre-six-hot-shot-Stock/dp/B000LF652Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1441210767&sr=8-1&keywords=Cattle+prod

[BobbyJones]

The owned came out of her home and seemed apologetic, however after seeing her dog bleeding from his neck area she blamed me for the fight because of my dog being intact.

Let me get this straight...your dog was leashed, hers wasn't and she's blaming you?

Unfortunately, most complaints won't be followed up on unless it's dog / human. Regardless of how your conversation goes, you may want to file a formal complaint in case a) it happens again or b) she goes after you for damages. It's a case of CYA.

[Dave B]

That close you're getting your own dog as well I'd imagine.

But agree with the overall sentiment. Call the authorities now.

yeah i had that thought too, but with people being so litigous today I wonder how the stick would look. I am sure if I had a dog attack my kids or if I had a dog i would react emotionally and probably kill it, but again I am just one level up from neanderthal.

[BobbyJones]

yeah i had that thought too, but with people being so litigous today I wonder how the stick would look. I am sure if I had a dog attack my kids or if I had a dog i would react emotionally and probably kill it, but again I am just one level up from neanderthal.

...and that's a guarantee the dog would never do it again.

The stick would be a good topic for conversation with other dog owners. As in "Oh, the stick? I use it to beat off unleashed dogs that attack me while I'm walking my leashed dog and children in the neighborhood" I think everyone would get it.

[rugbysecondrow]

Was your dog off leash as well or did the other dog stray into your yard to attack your dog? I guess I don't know enough about the interaction to speculate regarding blame.

As a rule, it seems people who aren't responsible for their dogs prior to an attack, wont be after an attack. I would carry whatever I needed to to protect myself first, then the dog. A dog in attack mode needs to be shut down quickly. Something which just antagonizes it will not protect you. A billy club of sorts maybe.

[Tony]

I spoke with her this morning, her girlfriend now also present. They both agreed the dog should not have been outside unsupervised. However, she stated that I should not have kicked her dog. It seems the kick did some damage, her dog is walking slowly, curved body where he was kicked. I apologized for kicking her dog and explained to them both that I certainly have the right to protect my dog from loose attacking dogs. Her girlfriend apologized and assured me that it would not happen again.
Again the subject of my dog being intact was brought up by her, not her partner. She asked me "why, is it a male thing" I explained to her why would I, I'm a responsible dog owner, my dog is always supervised.



I'm not sure why the strong feelings on their part regarding my dog being intact.
I don't see the need on my part, this is my third Airedale, all have been intact and lived long lives. Also, I have often wondered if a six year old boy was castrated what kind of man would he be and choose not to do this to my dogs.

[buldogge]

It's a touchy subject...but...I will say this...

I would let my dog off his leash to defend himself, if I needed to...depending on the situation and breed type/size that is attacking him.

Trying to protect yourself AND your dog could be difficult in certain situations. Again, would depend on your own dog and the aggressor. I have both a 90# boxer and a 23# Frenchton, so my reaction would be quite different depending on which I was walking.

-Mark in St. Louis

[malcolm]

It's a touchy subject...but...I will say this...

I would let my dog off his leash to defend himself, if I needed to...depending on the situation and breed type/size that is attacking him.

Trying to protect yourself AND your dog could be difficult in certain situations. Again, would depend on your own dog and the aggressor. I have both a 90# boxer and a 23# Frenchton, so my reaction would be quite different depending on which I was walking.

-Mark in St. Louis

gotta ask, what's a frenchton??

part French bulldog??

[buldogge]

Designer BS...1/2 French Bulldog 1/2 Boston Terrier...

-Mark

gotta ask, what's a frenchton??

part French bulldog??

[redir]

I'd feel bad about the injured dog but at the same time it sounds like you did what you had to do. A stick is a very good tool in dealing with dogs. Just pointing one at the dogs face is typically enough to make them cower away. Move the stick in a figure 8 pattern. In fact on my bike if I am chased I'll just get out the frame pump and it's almost always enough.

If that is NOT enough then you are dealing with a serious dog that needs a nice stiff strike across the snout. There is something about the snout nerve endings or something but it's a strike a dog will never forget and it doesn't necessarily have to be so hard it really hurts the animal badly.

If the dog is hell bent on attacking then you may simply have to kill it. Another defense tactic with a stick is to shove one end of it down the dogs throat and then use the other end as a lever and twist it's head back. Dogs will bite the closest thing to them. You can do that by holding both ends of the stick too and shove it so he bites the stick then twist it like the hands of a clock to dislocate it's jaw.

If you go for a walk with a stout hiking pole or some sort of hiking stick or cane your neighbors won't think you are some weirdo looking for a fight.

[AJosiahK]

Sorry this happened.

Owners need to take responsibility.

Ive been walking my uncles dog, a gorgeous, friendly, kind terrior mix. Looks like a pit mixed with boxer. Attacked by another walker dog, off leash, scary as all hell.

Report the incident for sure. Include your participation in the defense. Anything to keep your dog from becoming a target for neighbors or police.

It happens and it sucks.


GL

[BobbyJones]

Based on this I would STRONGLY suggest reporting this to the police so the incident is on record. From what I'm reading, you're already being blamed for the dogs injury. It sounds like they will put fault on you if a trip to the vet reveals injury requiring medical attention ($$$$). And we all know where that can lead.

The other statements about your dog being intact show a tilt towards an irrational assumption about responsibility.

No one ever wants the hassle and we'd like to believe everyone does the "right" thing but it is important to protect yourself.


I spoke with her this morning, her girlfriend now also present. They both agreed the dog should not have been outside unsupervised. However, she stated that I should not have kicked her dog. It seems the kick did some damage, her dog is walking slowly, curved body where he was kicked. I apologized for kicking her dog and explained to them both that I certainly have the right to protect my dog from loose attacking dogs. Her girlfriend apologized and assured me that it would not happen again.
Again the subject of my dog being intact was brought up by her, not her partner. She asked me "why, is it a male thing" I explained to her why would I, I'm a responsible dog owner, my dog is always supervised.



I'm not sure why the strong feelings on their part regarding my dog being intact.
I don't see the need on my part, this is my third Airedale, all have been intact and lived long lives. Also, I have often wondered if a six year old boy was castrated what kind of man would he be and choose not to do this to my dogs.

[fkelly]

Years ago I had a German Shepherd come running out of its house and across it's yard and attack my Golden Retriever that I was walking. If I had a solid stick with me I would have clobbered the Shepherd, but these things happen so fast and unexpectedly ... after the attack the Shepherd ran off and my dog was not seriously or permanently injured. But it was scary ...

I am with those who recommend reporting the incident to authorities. As forcefully and as soon as possible. I would not have recommended talking to the owner of the attacking dog. As for grabbing the back legs of an attacking dog or other suggestions of that nature, that's nuts. If you are talking about any type of large guard dog you are exposing yourself to serious danger by getting into a tussle with them. Do what's needed to get them to break off the attack and get the heck out of there. Carrying a stick like you mention might be advised but I'd plan on using it just enough to get the attack stopped.

Then, report it!

[djg21]

I have a male Airedale. This dog has never provoked a fight, gets along with all dogs. Today was his forth fight defending himself from again another dog off leash. While both dogs were in mutual combat I was able to kick the pitbull/german shepard mix in the ribs causing enough pain to pull apart my dog and control him. The owned came out of her home and seemed apologetic, however after seeing her dog bleeding from his neck area she blamed me for the fight because of my dog being intact. I was willing to let this go now I'm thinking of reporting this incident.
I'm thinking its time to carry a solid fiberglass rod( 1/2"wide, 2' long) while walking my dog in my neighborhood. Using this as a weapon to defend my dog from dogs off leash. Is this a bad idea?

Report the incident. The dog may already have a history and be a "potentially dangerous dog." You can read California's relevant law here: https://www.animallaw.info/statute/ca-dangerous-california-dangerous-dog-statutes

Here's an overview: http://dogbitelaw.com/vicious-dogs/regulation-of-dangerous-and-vicious-dogs

[jmoore]

We have a PITA neighbor who walks his 6yo lab twice a day off leash. The dog has never been restrained or taught any manners. She has jumped on people's grandmothers knocking them down and dug up countless flower beds and crapped in untold number of yards. He knows my Aussie Sheppard barks like hell when they go past but he still lets the dog off leash to run up on my porch to bark at my dog through the window. He refuses to put it on the leash because "she likes to run around".

I have called at least a dozen times and reported him to Animal Control, the last time when his dog attacked my on-leash dog and I had to physically pull them apart. Nothing ever happens. I asked Animal Control last time why and they essentially said that they had so many calls that they don't send out trucks anymore. They will only pick up a stray or talk to a crappy owner if they happen to be in an area and personally see the infraction. So basically we are SOL using the City and it's up to us to take care of the situation.

So if you are in a city like Dallas, I'd expect the same amount of help from them.

[gdw]

Seriously consider the urban equivalent to a cattle prod:
http://www.amazon.com/Products-Walking-Cane-FlashLt-Volts/dp/B008RTJUPW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
The noise it gives off freaks out a lot of dogs and drives them away before attacking. Read the reviews and do some research. If you do have to use it, temporarily stunning an aggressive animal is safer for all involved than trying to drive it away with a stick.

[Black Dog]

The fight was a result of your dog protecting you. Not to say this is your fault at all since you were being 100% responsible. When dogs are on a lease they are more aggressive (threatened) since they are constrained and also protective of the master. It is called leash aggression and if you are nervous or tense then your dog will instantly pick up your mood and feel the same way. Next time this happens let your dog go free. I know this sounds counter intuitive but it will prevent the fight. If your dog is free, give him space and if you are not freaking out then the dogs will sort out things since very few dogs ever want a fight. they will establish dominance quickly. This will work 99.9% of the time. Remember your response will be your dogs response. Stay calm, reassure your dog any he will follow your mood. I learned all of this from fostering and training many seeing eye dogs.

[Ken Robb]

If you go for a walk with a stout hiking pole or some sort of hiking stick or cane your neighbors won't think you are some weirdo looking for a fight.

I think this is good advice. Some areas have laws against carrying striking weapons just as they do firearms and some knives.

[pbarry]

Great post. Well said. The approach you describe works very well.

The fight was a result of your dog protecting you. Not to say this is your fault at all since you were being 100% responsible. When dogs are on a lease they are more aggressive (threatened) since they are constrained and also protective of the master. It is called leash aggression and if you are nervous or tense then your dog will instantly pick up your mood and feel the same way. Next time this happens let your dog go free. I know this sounds counter intuitive but it will prevent the fight. If your dog is free, give him space and if you are not freaking out then the dogs will sort out things since very few dogs ever want a fight. they will establish dominance quickly. This will work 99.9% of the time. Remember your response will be your dogs response. Stay calm, reassure your dog any he will follow your mood. I learned all of this from fostering and training many seeing eye dogs.

[Tony]

The fight was a result of your dog protecting you. Not to say this is your fault at all since you were being 100% responsible. When dogs are on a lease they are more aggressive (threatened) since they are constrained and also protective of the master. It is called leash aggression and if you are nervous or tense then your dog will instantly pick up your mood and feel the same way. Next time this happens let your dog go free. I know this sounds counter intuitive but it will prevent the fight. If your dog is free, give him space and if you are not freaking out then the dogs will sort out things since very few dogs ever want a fight. they will establish dominance quickly. This will work 99.9% of the time. Remember your response will be your dogs response. Stay calm, reassure your dog any he will follow your mood. I learned all of this from fostering and training many seeing eye dogs.

These dog attacks/fights happen fast. In this case the dog bolted off his porch and immediately took up a fighting posture. Within seconds the fight was on. My Airedale (Corbin) had no time to read weather I was tense or not. This has somewhat been the pattern with these dog fights. The streets can be busy, both dogs could have ended up in the street have I not had my dog on a leash. Because I had some control over my dog I was able to position myself to strike. If I had the rod I now plan on carrying I could have stopped this fight before it started.

Corbin is well socialized and around many dogs, both on and off leash. He hunts with other male terriers with no problems.
This is what I think is happening. Corbin gets two walks a day, different routes, all within 3/4 miles. He marks on his walks. These others dogs can smell Corbin's markings in what they perceive is their area and can't wait to get at Corbin?

[93legendti]

I was walking our neighbor's Malamute, Coco, in front of our house (They have a energetic 2 yr old and a Samoyed as well. The husband sometimes works late, the wife can't handle the 2 big dogs and a stroller at the same time, so we offered to walk their dogs. Coco is a gorgeous, mellow dog. My daughter and I play with their dogs all the time. The Samoyed loves to lie down on his side and have my daughter rest her head on his belly.

Anyway, just as we came to our house, my son's friend arrived with their 10 lb toy dog, who was on a leash. Instantly, Coco went ballistic and lunged for the tiny dog. Took all my strength to restrain her. She then turned around and sent grass flying thru the air while she furiously pawed at the ground. I told my son's friend's father to get the toy dog back in the car before Coco killed him. I directed Coco back towards her home and calmed her down. The Samoyed, a younger male, ignored the toy dog.

These things can happen instantly. I was calm, Coco was calm.

[Black Dog]

These dog attacks/fights happen fast. In this case the dog bolted off his porch and immediately took up a fighting posture. Within seconds the fight was on. My Airedale (Corbin) had no time to read weather I was tense or not. This has somewhat been the pattern with these dog fights. The streets can be busy, both dogs could have ended up in the street have I not had my dog on a leash. Because I had some control over my dog I was able to position myself to strike. If I had the rod I now plan on carrying I could have stopped this fight before it started.

Corbin is well socialized and around many dogs, both on and off leash. He hunts with other male terriers with no problems.
This is what I think is happening. Corbin gets two walks a day, different routes, all within 3/4 miles. He marks on his walks. These others dogs can smell Corbin's markings in what they perceive is their area and can't wait to get at Corbin?

It can all happen fast. Very fast. Even if you instinctively pull on the leash when the other dog is inbound your are sending the message of your stress. None the less there is not always time to avoid a confrontation. However, I do not think that this is a "I smell your markings and I am going to get you out of my hood" situation. Some dogs, like people, are just aggressive and hyper defensive arse holes.

[oldpotatoe]

I have a male Airedale. This dog has never provoked a fight, gets along with all dogs. Today was his forth fight defending himself from again another dog off leash. While both dogs were in mutual combat I was able to kick the pitbull/german shepard mix in the ribs causing enough pain to pull apart my dog and control him. The owned came out of her home and seemed apologetic, however after seeing her dog bleeding from his neck area she blamed me for the fight because of my dog being intact. I was willing to let this go now I'm thinking of reporting this incident.
I'm thinking its time to carry a solid fiberglass rod( 1/2"wide, 2' long) while walking my dog in my neighborhood. Using this as a weapon to defend my dog from dogs off leash. Is this a bad idea?

Yes, call somebody and use it on the real cause of these incidents, the owner.

[mg2ride]

The fight was a result of your dog protecting you. Not to say this is your fault at all since you were being 100% responsible. When dogs are on a lease they are more aggressive (threatened) since they are constrained and also protective of the master. It is called leash aggression and if you are nervous or tense then your dog will instantly pick up your mood and feel the same way. Next time this happens let your dog go free. I know this sounds counter intuitive but it will prevent the fight. If your dog is free, give him space and if you are not freaking out then the dogs will sort out things since very few dogs ever want a fight. they will establish dominance quickly. This will work 99.9% of the time. Remember your response will be your dogs response. Stay calm, reassure your dog any he will follow your mood. I learned all of this from fostering and training many seeing eye dogs.

The only response so far with any teeth although it will not be taken well.

If all dog owners understood this there would be no problems!

[mg2ride]

.....If I had the rod I now plan on carrying I could have stopped this fight before it started.


I'm not sure that you beating the other dog about the head with a rod constitutes "Stopping the fight".

You could have stopped the fight by being aware of your surroundings. Of course since this is only the 4th time this has happened to you, how could you have ever expected it.

[buddybikes]

Samoyeds aer the best!!! Wish we had space for one, we only have sammy wantabees (american eskimos).

Perhaps walk with a std walking stick/pole so it isn't a "weapon" - poke from the sharp tip may keep things from getting too dangerous.

Notifying animal control officer and pushing them to check for Rabies will make dog confined to house for 7 days, that may push owners in right direction.

[redir]

The fight was a result of your dog protecting you. Not to say this is your fault at all since you were being 100% responsible. When dogs are on a lease they are more aggressive (threatened) since they are constrained and also protective of the master. It is called leash aggression and if you are nervous or tense then your dog will instantly pick up your mood and feel the same way. Next time this happens let your dog go free. I know this sounds counter intuitive but it will prevent the fight. If your dog is free, give him space and if you are not freaking out then the dogs will sort out things since very few dogs ever want a fight. they will establish dominance quickly. This will work 99.9% of the time. Remember your response will be your dogs response. Stay calm, reassure your dog any he will follow your mood. I learned all of this from fostering and training many seeing eye dogs.

That's very interesting, never heard that before. I guess the only problem there is that if something does happen then the law will put you at fault because of leash law.


I'm not sure that you beating the other dog about the head with a rod constitutes "Stopping the fight".

You could have stopped the fight by being aware of your surroundings. Of course since this is only the 4th time this has happened to you, how could you have ever expected it.

Blame the victim? The fight could have been stopped if the attacking dog owner was aware of her surrounding yeah? And I do in fact very well know that hitting a dog on the snout is an instant way to stop an attack. Often times just presenting a weapon such as a cane is enough.

93legendti brings up the point spot on. And I don't know what it is about some people, unfortunately I am one of them, but dogs just go after them. A was attacked by a dog as the owners and my brother who was good friends of the owner watched with their mouths gaping open in shock because there dog was the sweetest kindest most gentle dog who never ever hurt no one. We all hear that story well for some reason they go after me and I don't know why. I grew up with dogs and have always loved them. It can happen in an instant weather you are a trained Ninja and hyper aware of your surroundings or not.

[BobbyJones]

I'm not sure that you beating the other dog about the head with a rod constitutes "Stopping the fight".

You could have stopped the fight by being aware of your surroundings. Of course since this is only the 4th time this has happened to you, how could you have ever expected it.

Spoken just like a defense lawyer. Disgusting.

[rugbysecondrow]

I'm not sure that you beating the other dog about the head with a rod constitutes "Stopping the fight".

You could have stopped the fight by being aware of your surroundings. Of course since this is only the 4th time this has happened to you, how could you have ever expected it.

The point of securing your dog is more to protect them, just as much as protecting others. The offending family failed on both accounts, and it was the innocents (even their dog) who suffered. The result will be a hurt or dead dog if they keep it up, and it will be 100% their fault.

Back in the day, dogs could run free. I grew up in a farming town, so dogs around were a mainstay, but times have changed.

[earlfoss]

Letting this happen 4 times before you actually do anything about it is not good. If you aren't going to take action, why keep putting yourself in the same situation? The biggest loser is your dog who keeps getting attacked.

Heh, that lady seems a little hung up on the fact that your dog is intact. Show her that you are intact as well and report the situation before it blows back on you.

[William]

The fight was a result of your dog protecting you. Not to say this is your fault at all since you were being 100% responsible. When dogs are on a lease they are more aggressive (threatened) since they are constrained and also protective of the master. It is called leash aggression and if you are nervous or tense then your dog will instantly pick up your mood and feel the same way. Next time this happens let your dog go free. I know this sounds counter intuitive but it will prevent the fight. If your dog is free, give him space and if you are not freaking out then the dogs will sort out things since very few dogs ever want a fight. they will establish dominance quickly. This will work 99.9% of the time. Remember your response will be your dogs response. Stay calm, reassure your dog any he will follow your mood. I learned all of this from fostering and training many seeing eye dogs.

Know your dog.

Our Boxer Bruno was an Alpha male all the way. Any dog he would first meet, on or off leash, it was posture (not aggressive barking) and look for the reaction. If the other dog showed submission, it was immediately playtime like they had been raised together. If the other dog showed any ounce of aggression/challange, it was an immediate fight, no hesitation at all. Knowing this he was always on a leash when he was out of the yard, and I would warn anyone else with a dog who wanted them to meet to stop and let me approach. I would keep his leash taught (no slack at all) and wait for their reaction....ready to pull him away if needed. Again, submission was playtime, any overt aggression and it was fight. Letting his leash go to see what would happen was not a good idea.

YMMV





William

[marsh]

If your dog is being rushed by an unleashed dog, do not let yours go free.
You won't have a leg to stand on legally, since your dog was also unleashed, and it sure didn't prevent a fight when a rottweiler rushed my dog, who was unleashed in a park. Bear spray and a kick in the groin has worked for me twice.

[Tony]

Letting this happen 4 times before you actually do anything about it is not good. If you aren't going to take action, why keep putting yourself in the same situation? The biggest loser is your dog who keeps getting attacked.

Heh, that lady seems a little hung up on the fact that your dog is intact. Show her that you are intact as well and report the situation before it blows back on you.

I have taken action. Changed my routes, including my river walks where two attacks happen by homeless dog owners.
My taking action may differ from yours.


I guess that will show them I have a set!
I this case your right, I didn't hear what I wanted and have reported this incident and will be following up on it.

[Tony]

Know your dog.

Our Boxer Bruno was an Alpha male all the way. Any dog he would first meet, on or off leash, it was posture (not aggressive barking) and look for the reaction. If the other dog showed submission, it was immediately playtime like they had been raised together. If the other dog showed any ounce of aggression/challange, it was an immediate fight, no hesitation at all. Knowing this he was always on a leash when he was out of the yard, and I would warn anyone else with a dog who wanted them to meet to stop and let me approach. I would keep his leash taught (no slack at all) and wait for their reaction....ready to pull him away if needed. Again, submission was playtime, any overt aggression and it was fight. Letting his leash go to see what would happen was not a good idea.

YMMV


William

William, this is totally where I'm at with Corbin. He is very much like Bruno, all Airedales are, at least all of mine have been. I do the same with Corbin when meeting other dogs. Smaller dogs can show aggression and he will back off. Its the larger dogs that posture up in a dominating stance, once they strike its on. So I'm very aware of this and pull him away before it happens. I strongly agree, in Corbin's case letting him off leash is a bad idea.
Thanks

[mg2ride]

Know your dog.

Our Boxer Bruno was an Alpha male all the way.....

And here lies 100% of the problem. The person with the leash in their hand should be the alpha. Not the dog with it around his neck.

[William]

And here lies 100% of the problem. The person with the leash in their hand should be the alpha. Not the dog with it around his neck.

I know you like to stir it up, but I assure you I was the alpha in our hierarchy. Bruno was a rescue who came into our family when he was around four years old. This trait was ingrained in him, and he never once bit a person or actually fought with another dog because I had control of the situation.

He was a great family dog my he RIP.






William

[93legendti]

We have a leash law here. Illegal to have a dog outside and unleashed, unless your yard has an invisible fence.

[BobbyJones]

And here lies 100% of the problem. The person with the leash in their hand should be the alpha. Not the dog with it around his neck.

Man, i'd sure like to go for a ride with you and see what you're all about.

[malcolm]

And here lies 100% of the problem. The person with the leash in their hand should be the alpha. Not the dog with it around his neck.

It's readily apparent he does not know our "sweet" William.

[RFC]

Stick or rod is a good idea, but do it with style. Here's what I use -- Blackthorn walking stick.

Oh, and do report the incident sooner rather than later.

http://www.prestigewalkingsticks.com/blackthorn-or-shillelagh-walking-sticks.html

[redir]

Stick or rod is a good idea, but do it with style. Here's what I use -- Blackthorn walking stick.

Oh, and do report the incident sooner rather than later.

http://www.prestigewalkingsticks.com/blackthorn-or-shillelagh-walking-sticks.html

:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3w6c7RUbUs

[RFC]

:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3w6c7RUbUs

Good one!

[Black Dog]

That's very interesting, never heard that before. I guess the only problem there is that if something does happen then the law will put you at fault because of leash law.

Drop the leash and say you were trying to protect yourself. You will never be charged.

[Kirk007]

And here lies 100% of the problem. The person with the leash in their hand should be the alpha. Not the dog with it around his neck.

While not disputing the ideal relation between human and domesticated dog, this statement shows a whole lotta lack of knowledge about dogs and the complexity of the social structure and behavior of canids in general. To paraphrase a similar adage, you can take the dog out of the wild but you can't take all of the wild out of the dog. That is of course, if you want the dog to be a dog and not a broken, wimpering, insecure, confused being a a result of an owner who has confused it with a windup toy, and treated it accordingly.

[nmrt]

This response reminds me of "sage" teachings of Cesar Milan, who knows very little of dog behavior.

And here lies 100% of the problem. The person with the leash in their hand should be the alpha. Not the dog with it around his neck.

[Tony]

So I've been carrying this solid fiberglass rod for a while now and no dog attacks. I almost put it away this week, glad I didn't. This morning while walking my dog a person with his boxer pitbull mix was playing catch in the park. His dog notice us, stopped playing and started to advance towards us.
I yelled at the owner to get his dog and he made no attempt to call or get his dog, saying over and over he's friendly. Sure enough both dogs squared off and his dog made a move. I can't tell you enough now effective the rod was in stopping the attack. One quick whack across his snout caused the dog to back off. The owner was pissed off and called the police. I heard him on the phone saying that "this person attacked me and my dog". I knew the police was coming so planned no doing a couple circles around the park. Within minutes the police was at the scene. I gave the police my ID and showed proof of license for my dog and explained what happened. When the officer was questioning the dog owner regarding me attacking him, the guy said that "striking my dog was like striking me". The guy received a ticket for dog off leash and for not carrying dog license.

[Black Dog]

So I've been carrying this solid fiberglass rod for a while now and no dog attacks. I almost put it away this week, glad I didn't. This morning while walking my dog a person with his boxer pitbull mix was playing catch in the park. His dog notice us, stopped playing and started to advance towards us.
I yelled at the owner to get his dog and he made no attempt to call or get his dog, saying over and over he's friendly. Sure enough both dogs squared off and his dog made a move. I can't tell you enough now effective the rod was in stopping the attack. One quick whack across his snout caused the dog to back off. The owner was pissed off and called the police. I heard him on the phone saying that "this person attacked me and my dog". I knew the police was coming so planned no doing a couple circles around the park. Within minutes the police was at the scene. I gave the police my ID and showed proof of license for my dog and explained what happened. When the officer was questioning the dog owner regarding me attacking him, the guy said that "striking my dog was like striking me". The guy received a ticket for dog off leash and for not carrying dog license.

Well, I think that you took the wrong tack here. Your elevated stress and response put your dog on edge. Then keeping your dog on leash almost certainly led to the tussle between the dogs. Your dog follows your mood. He will then be left with no way out of a fight if still attached to a leash. See my earlier post (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1818085&postcount=29). I am not saying that the other dog owner was in the right. He should have recalled his dog as soon as you asked him too. You would have been better served remaining calm, reassure your dog and drop the leash and give some space while being as calm as a cucumber. If there was a tussle after all of this then get out your rod and smack away. :D

[Dead Man]

I'm sorry guys... I ····inging hate dogs, and their owners annoy the ···· out of me. At least while they're being dog-owners.

I have friends with dogs... not saying owning a dog makes you bad person. But it does make you an overly complicated person with an overly complicated life.

:beer:

Here's some fun Saturday morning coffee reading, from my local race association page. I'm "Ben"

https://obra.org/posts/117100?page=1

(start reading at the bottom of the page)

edit again, for clarification - Mr. Constagliari made a comment about modifying a mini-pump to be an effective weapon against dogs in another thread, this thread was posted in response and as an aside to that.

[Tony]

Well, I think that you took the wrong tack here. Your elevated stress and response put your dog on edge. Then keeping your dog on leash almost certainly led to the tussle between the dogs. Your dog follows your mood. He will then be left with no way out of a fight if still attached to a leash. See my earlier post (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1818085&postcount=29). I am not saying that the other dog owner was in the right. He should have recalled his dog as soon as you asked him too. You would have been better served remaining calm, reassure your dog and drop the leash and give some space while being as calm as a cucumber. If there was a tussle after all of this then get out your rod and smack away. :D

I was calm and in control. No way I'm letting my dog off leash, been there done that.
I think the quick light smack on the muzzle is lots better than smacking away on dogs locked in combat.

[soulspinner]

Had a 160 pound Newf named Rufus (tinged with red hair as a pup...). Used to take him to a park where all the dogs were off leash. Very bucolic, stream flowing, beautiful place. My dog was never aggressive but one day a guy brings a giant( overbred) Doberman to the park. The dog was aggressive and our circle of dog owners asked him to not to return without his dog on a leash. He told us to piss off and shows up the next weekend with the doby and the dog comes right at me as I am playing fetch with the newf near the water. The dog is almost on me when the newf intercepts him from the side, picks him up by the neck and carries him to the water, submerging the 100 plus pound dog while keeping his newfy nostrils above the water. By the time I got my dog under control, his dog was a worthless hunk of almost drowned dog. Last time I saw him or his dog. :D

[mg2ride]

Well, I think that you took the wrong tack here. Your elevated stress and response put your dog on edge. Then keeping your dog on leash almost certainly led to the tussle between the dogs. Your dog follows your mood. He will then be left with no way out of a fight if still attached to a leash. See my earlier post (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1818085&postcount=29). I am not saying that the other dog owner was in the right. He should have recalled his dog as soon as you asked him too. You would have been better served remaining calm, reassure your dog and drop the leash and give some space while being as calm as a cucumber. If there was a tussle after all of this then get out your rod and smack away. :D

+1 but you are pissin in the wind trying to explain it.

Same exact dogs, same exact situation but a different person holding the leash and it would have been a 100% different outcome.

Beating a dog about the head with a fiberglass rod simply because you are scared is not cool.

[Ken Robb]

Had a 160 pound Newf named Rufus (tinged with red hair as a pup...). Used to take him to a park where all the dogs were off leash. Very bucolic, stream flowing, beautiful place. My dog was never aggressive but one day a guy brings a giant( overbred) Doberman to the park. The dog was aggressive and our circle of dog owners asked him to not to return without his dog on a leash. He told us to piss off and shows up the next weekend with the doby and the dog comes right at me as I am playing fetch with the newf near the water. The dog is almost on me when the newf intercepts him from the side, picks him up by the neck and carries him to the water, submerging the 100 plus pound dog while keeping his newfy nostrils above the water. By the time I got my dog under control, his dog was a worthless hunk of almost drowned dog. Last time I saw him or his dog. :D
My fraternity had a St. Bernard who was attacked by two Huskies while they were all off leash on campus at beside Lake Michigan. The huuskies' owner thought it was funny until Baron swatted the female with a paw and then picked up the male and held him under water until he was almost drowned and his owner pulled him away. Baron was the runt in his litter at 185 lbs and very sweet---until he got annoyed. This was 1963 and there were several house dogs roaming campus with impunity back then.

[Bruce K]

Mg2 -

That kind of comment us WAY over the line and unwelcome here.

Please edit the post and dial back the rhetoric.

BK

[RFC]

Had a 160 pound Newf named Rufus (tinged with red hair as a pup...). Used to take him to a park where all the dogs were off leash. Very bucolic, stream flowing, beautiful place. My dog was never aggressive but one day a guy brings a giant( overbred) Doberman to the park. The dog was aggressive and our circle of dog owners asked him to not to return without his dog on a leash. He told us to piss off and shows up the next weekend with the doby and the dog comes right at me as I am playing fetch with the newf near the water. The dog is almost on me when the newf intercepts him from the side, picks him up by the neck and carries him to the water, submerging the 100 plus pound dog while keeping his newfy nostrils above the water. By the time I got my dog under control, his dog was a worthless hunk of almost drowned dog. Last time I saw him or his dog. :D

Great story. Way to go, Newfy!

BTW, it amazes me how many dog owners don't get it when they are asked to leave dog park type areas because their dogs become dangerously aggressive. Perhaps the owner's personality is imprinted on the dog. Once, at a very friendly dog park, a new visitor brought a Pit that immediately walked right up to a Great Dane and clamped down on its throat. After I detached the Pit, the owner was very offended when I asked him to leave the park. First I got a lecture and then angry curses.

[Tony]

+1 but you are pissin in the wind trying to explain it.

Same exact dogs, same exact situation but a different person holding the leash and it would have been a 100% different outcome.

Beating a dog about the head with a fiberglass rod simply because you are scared is not cool.

Very predictable. You seem to be confident in your incompetence. You were not there, you don't know me, my intentions, my dog, anything about us.....clearly.
Predicting a 100% different outcome without knowing the above is silly. Your last comment (removed) is dopey.

[Seramount]

this thread makes me glad I have fish for pets.

[OtayBW]

You're right. Definitely a couple of 'zingers' in this thread....

[Black Dog]

I was calm and in control. No way I'm letting my dog off leash, been there done that.
I think the quick light smack on the muzzle is lots better than smacking away on dogs locked in combat.

I was not there and I can only suppose what happened based on what you posted. Having said that you yelled at the guy to recall his dog and your past experience suggests that you were not fully calm. If you are carrying a rod also suggests that there is likely some anxiety involved here. Not a huge deal. Your dog, however, will pick up on all your cues, weather or not your are aware. The second that you drew your dog in closer by pulling on the lead sealed the deal for him, he was now fully aware of your tension. Dogs are remarkably tuned into your expressions, body language, vocal patterns, and movements. They are social animals and have had millions of years of natural selection to evolve these traits. No insult intended here, just going on what has been written and the may years of experience I have with the subject at hand. Please excuse any false assumptions that I may have made.

[charliedid]

I was calm and in control. No way I'm letting my dog off leash, been there done that.
I think the quick light smack on the muzzle is lots better than smacking away on dogs locked in combat.

Sorry for your troubles and I think you made the right call. I live with two very reactive dogs that my wife does agility with. Constant struggle but she has total recall with those dogs. Most people don't, and that is one of the huge problems.

Dog parks and no recall. terrible mix.

[93legendti]

I think every dog to dog interaction is different and depends upon your dog and the other dog. If dogs are supposed to be on leashes and a non leashed dog comes at you/your dog, I don't think you have to wait for an attack to defend yourself or your dog. The onus is on the owner who violates the leash law. If the dog is properly leashed, the incident doesn't occur.

[slidey]

Today was his forth fight defending himself from again another dog off leash.

If a dog has been in 5 fights, can you still really claim that your dog was never at fault? I mean of course, you can, because you are, but more importantly is it logical?

I'm not stating the above in an accusatory tone, nor from experience. I have no patience/time for pets in my life now, but just from a statistical standpoint, it seems a dubious claim to me. But, what do I know!

[Tony]

I think every dog to dog interaction is different and depends upon your dog and the other dog. If dogs are supposed to be on leashes and a non leashed dog comes at you/your dog, I don't think you have to wait for an attack to defend yourself or your dog. The onus is on the owner who violates the leash law. If the dog is properly leashed, the incident doesn't occur.

I agree. Fact, I have a dominate INTACT male Airedale. Fact, Other dominate dogs to not like INTAKE male Airedales.
Anytime a dog shows aggression or tries to show dominance towards my Airedale its on! It does not matter weather on or off a leash. It does not matter if I'm present or not. I have made the decision to keep him on a leash because of the above, wish these other dog owners would do the same.

[Tony]

]If a dog has been in 5 fights[/B], can you still really claim that your dog was never at fault? I mean of course, you can, because you are, but more importantly is it logical?

I'm not stating the above in an accusatory tone, nor from experience. I have no patience/time for pets in my life now, but just from a statistical standpoint, it seems a dubious claim to me. But, what do I know!

You left out "defending himself from again another dog off leash"

[Birddog]

I'm sorry guys... I ï½·ï½·ï½·ï½·inging hate dogs, and their owners annoy the ï½·ï½·ï½·ï½· out of me. At least while they're being dog-owners.

I have friends with dogs... not saying owning a dog makes you bad person. But it does make you an overly complicated person with an overly complicated life.

:beer:

Here's some fun Saturday morning coffee reading, from my local race association page. I'm "Ben"

https://obra.org/posts/117100?page=1

(start reading at the bottom of the page)

edit again, for clarification - Mr. Constagliari made a comment about modifying a mini-pump to be an effective weapon against dogs in another thread, this thread was posted in response and as an aside to that.
+++++++++ this is the truth. IMHO of course.

[AJM100]

Funny it took 6 pages of posts for someone to really hit on what is really occurring for the OP.

It has everything to do with the pooch being an unfixed dominant male - whether on or off leash. :crap:

[Kirk007]

+++++++++ this is the truth. IMHO of course.

I'm sorry guys, I f***king hate people. I even know some people and being a person doesn't necessarily make them a bad person but being a person certainly makes for a complicated life.

I mean lets consider, people kill people on a regular basis, with cars, guns, fists, knives, poisonous products and foodstuffs. People regularly trash the world and its resources that I need so that I can enjoy life and ride my bike in beautiful settings, with clean air to breath and clean water to drink. What a bunch of f*ucking ingrates people are. I particularly detest them when they chase me with their cars - oftentimes not even realizing they are doing it and putting me in harms way. And the constant barking in public - always yakking away on cell phones, sharing their self important lives with everyone around them.

Life is complicated. Its not the dogs that are the problem, and hating dogs as a general proposition? I'll take most dogs over most people.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm sorry guys, I f***king hate people. I even know some people and being a person doesn't necessarily make them a bad person but being a person certainly makes for a complicated life.

I mean lets consider, people kill people on a regular basis, with cars, guns, fists, knives, poisonous products and foodstuffs. People regularly trash the world and its resources that I need so that I can enjoy life and ride my bike in beautiful settings, with clean air to breath and clean water to drink. What a bunch of f*ucking ingrates people are. I particularly detest them when they chase me with their cars - oftentimes not even realizing they are doing it and putting me in harms way. And the constant barking in public - always yakking away on cell phones, sharing their self important lives with everyone around them.

Life is complicated. Its not the dogs that are the problem, and hating dogs as a general proposition? I'll take most dogs over most people.


Got no dog in this fight(get it?), don't own a dog but spot on Mr Kirk.

[Kirk007]

+++++++++ this is the truth. IMHO of course. - quoting The B - I hate dogs ....

I'm sorry guys, I f***king hate people. I even know some people and being a person doesn't necessarily make them a bad person but being a person certainly makes for a complicated life.

I mean lets consider, people kill people and everything else on a regular basis, with cars, guns, fists, knives, poisonous products and foodstuffs. People regularly trash the world and its resources that I need so that I can enjoy life and run or ride in the fields and woods or roads in beautiful settings, with clean air to breath and clean water to drink. What a bunch of ingrates people are. I particularly detest them when they come close to running me over with their cars, typically oblivious to the fact that they are putting me in harms way. And the constant barking in public - always yakking away on cell phones, sharing their self important lives with everyone around them. And people - yeah they claim they respect life while they blithely are on the path of wiping out 50% of all species on earth - viewing every other species as a thing they are entitled to own and hence destroy, the ultimate arbiter of the right to live. Who gave people the right to decide whether any other species has a right to live?

Life is complicated. Hating on dogs is blaming the wrong species.

[mg2ride]

.....Fact, Other dominate dogs to not like INTAKE male Airedales.......

The above is a far, far cry from a fact, but since you believe it, your dogs believes it.

Until you realize that YOU are the problem, your dog (or you in the latest story) will continue to get in fights with other dogs.

ATMO, Leash or no leash your dog should stay in your property. He is a menace when being handle by you and there are at least 5 fight story now that make it pretty darn close to a "fact".

[Ken Robb]

I wonder why a person would want to have an intact male dog unless it was in great demand for breeding.
I don't mean this question to be criticism of any forumite but all the experts I have read/heard believe that neutered dogs make much better pets. That has certainly been my experience.

[Tony]

I was not there and I can only suppose what happened based on what you posted. Having said that you yelled at the guy to recall his dog and your past experience suggests that you were not fully calm. If you are carrying a rod also suggests that there is likely some anxiety involved here. Not a huge deal. Your dog, however, will pick up on all your cues, weather or not your are aware. The second that you drew your dog in closer by pulling on the lead sealed the deal for him, he was now fully aware of your tension. Dogs are remarkably tuned into your expressions, body language, vocal patterns, and movements. They are social animals and have had millions of years of natural selection to evolve these traits. No insult intended here, just going on what has been written and the may years of experience I have with the subject at hand. Please excuse any false assumptions that I may have made.

I hear what your saying Black Dog. I feel strange being chastised as the problem. I am doing everything possible as a responsible dog owner.
For the first couple years of Corbin's life I would walk him with a lady friend and her dog. She shares your thoughts on dog behavior and for the most part so do I. I honestly don't feel like I'm channeling tension or fear to my dog, if you knew me I think you may feel the same. I carry the rod to prevent injury's that have accrued to my dog and others. I believe this latest incident the rod worked great in preventing a dog fight from again another dog off leash and its irresponsible dog owner. My dog just seems hard wired to not be dominated, much more so than my two other past Airedales.

I'm backing up the rod with body armor for Corbin.
https://plus.google.com/photos/107709068384636814318/albums/5854149138157468993

[Tony]

I wonder why a person would want to have an intact male dog unless it was in great demand for breeding.
I don't mean this question to be criticism of any forumite but all the experts I have read/heard believe that neutered dogs make much better pets. That has certainly been my experience.

I wonder what kind of man you or I would be if at six years of age we were castrated? I choose not to do this to my dogs.

[djg21]

The above is a far, far cry from a fact, but since you believe it, your dogs believes it.

Until you realize that YOU are the problem, your dog (or you in the latest story) will continue to get in fights with other dogs.

ATMO, Leash or no leash your dog should stay in your property. He is a menace when being handle by you and there are at least 5 fight story now that make it pretty darn close to a "fact".


Sometimes it's about tone and delivery.

While you may be right, you've presumably not seen the dog or its handler/owner. There may have been better ways to handle the situation, but there also are far better ways for you to convey your message. There really is no need to be so antagonistic and condescending.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[djg21]

I wonder what kind of man you or I would be if at six years of age we were castrated? I choose not to do this to my dogs.


It's actually healthier for the dog at a certain point to be neutered. Neutered dogs have fewer issues with cancer.
After a dog is physically mature, there is no reason to not to neuter unless you are breeding. Same goes with females. Reputable breeders stop breeding dams at around 5 1/2 -6 years and have their dogs spayed. This avoids issues of ovarian cancer as the dogs age.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Black Dog]

I wonder what kind of man you or I would be if at six years of age we were castrated? I choose not to do this to my dogs.

Not a good analogy. :(

[mg2ride]

Sometimes it's about tone and delivery.

While you may be right, you've presumably not seen the dog or its handler/owner. There may have been better ways to handle the situation, but there also are far better ways for you to convey your message. There really is no need to be so antagonistic and condescending.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No question you are right but it is just very frustrating to hear dog owners have zero understanding of how to handle their own dogs. The OP could solve this problem permanently inside a week or two. All he has to do is make his dog submit (by sitting or laying calmly) every single time they are approached by ANY dog. No matter size or intention. 2 weeks of this and his dog will understand how he is supposed to greet other dogs regardless of how they approach him. The dog will not feel the need to be the alpha and the situation will not escalate. 99% of the time it is that simple.

If any dog owner is incapable of making their own dog submit, they have no business owning that dog. More often than not in cases like this you find out that it is not about the owner not being able to make their dog submit. They don't want them to submit. They take a certain pride thinking that they have the alpha. They need to learn to take pride in being the alpha.

It truly makes me sad that his dog can not go for a walk and enjoy the smells of the world without having to worry about him or his owner getting in a fight.

But hey, he is intact. At least he has that.


I wonder what kind of man you or I would be if at six years of age we were castrated? I choose not to do this to my dogs.

I think one key difference is that you are I were at least allowed the opportunity to have an "outlet" for what was left intact.

I don't know for sure, but I might choose to have none over having blue ones.

[djg21]

No question you are right but it is just very frustrating to hear dog owners have zero understanding of how to handle their own dogs. The OP could solve this problem permanently inside a week or two. All he has to do is make his dog submit (by sitting or laying calmly) every single time they are approached by ANY dog. No matter size or intention. 2 weeks of this and his dog will understand how he is supposed to greet other dogs regardless of how they approach him. The dog will not feel the need to be the alpha and the situation will not escalate. 99% of the time it is that simple.

If any dog owner is incapable of making their own dog submit, they have no business owning that dog. More often than not in cases like this you find out that it is not about the owner not being able to make their dog submit. They don't want them to submit. They take a certain pride thinking that they have the alpha. They need to learn to take pride in being the alpha.

It truly makes me sad that his dog can not go for a walk and enjoy the smells of the world without having to worry about him or his owner getting in a fight.

But hey, he is intact. At least he has that.




I think one key difference is that you are I were at least allowed the opportunity to have an "outlet" for what was left intact.

I don't know for sure, but I might choose to have none over having blue ones.

My suggestion is that the OP find a reputable and respected obedience/agility trainer and take some classes. These classes are more for the owner/handler than the dog. You are right: it's great to train your dog to sit when on a leash and you stop walking, or when another dog approaches, or another person approaches. But that can be difficult with some dogs.

I also agree that it is an issue to have an unaltered mature dog as a pet unless is being shown and/or bred (and I'm not a fan of the AKC or showing dogs). I believe it's irresponsible to otherwise refuse to alter, and the reality is that intact males are more difficult to control and more apt to display aggression.

[Black Dog]

My suggestion is that the OP find a reputable and respected obedience/agility trainer and take some classes. These classes are more for the owner/handler than the dog. You are right: it's great to train your dog to sit when on a leash and you stop walking, or when another dog approaches, or another person approaches. But that can be difficult with some dogs.

I also agree that it is an issue to have an unaltered mature dog as a pet unless is being shown and/or bred (and I'm not a fan of the AKC or showing dogs). I believe it's irresponsible to otherwise refuse to alter, and the reality is that intact males are more difficult to control and more apt to display aggression.


There is some sound advice here. Male dogs are generally happier when they no longer suffer from the aggression and sexual frustration that being intact causes. He is not a human, he is a dog, there are many real differences and projecting our feelings does neither the dog nor the human much good.

[Tony]

My suggestion is that the OP find a reputable and respected obedience/agility trainer and take some classes. These classes are more for the owner/handler than the dog. You are right: it's great to train your dog to sit when on a leash and you stop walking, or when another dog approaches, or another person approaches. But that can be difficult with some dogs.

I also agree that it is an issue to have an unaltered mature dog as a pet unless is being shown and/or bred (and I'm not a fan of the AKC or showing dogs). I believe it's irresponsible to otherwise refuse to alter, and the reality is that intact males are more difficult to control and more apt to display aggression.

Propaganda campaign gets worse. There is nothing broken about a male dog that needs to be fixed. Its presumptuous of us to think otherwise. I don't believe neutering is calming, healthful or sociologically justified.
Instead of people bullying (not you) others into spaying and neutering, all that time should be better spent encouraging pet owners to be responsible for not letting their dogs run loose.

[Tony]

It's actually healthier for the dog at a certain point to be neutered. Neutered dogs have fewer issues with cancer.
After a dog is physically mature, there is no reason to not to neuter unless you are breeding. Same goes with females. Reputable breeders stop breeding dams at around 5 1/2 -6 years and have their dogs spayed. This avoids issues of ovarian cancer as the dogs age.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It has never been proven that dogs that are not fixed are at higher risk of cancer. In fact, newer research has shown that neutering a male can increase his risk of bone cancer and other cancers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enPCZA1WFKY

[Black Dog]

Propaganda campaign gets worse. There is nothing broken about a male dog that needs to be fixed. Its presumptuous of us to think otherwise. I don't believe neutering is calming, healthful or sociologically justified.
Instead of people bullying (not you) others into spaying and neutering, all that time should be better spent encouraging pet owners to be responsible for not letting their dogs run loose.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a dog that is not fixed. I agree. However, given the world that we force dogs to live in to can certainly be good for the dog and people to have them fixed (pun intended). I agree that people should be responsible for there dogs in all ways, including not letting them off leash when not appropriate and always picking up after them (my pet peeve...see what I did there... :D )

[djg21]

Propaganda campaign gets worse. There is nothing broken about a male dog that needs to be fixed. Its presumptuous of us to think otherwise. I don't believe neutering is calming, healthful or sociologically justified.
Instead of people bullying (not you) others into spaying and neutering, all that time should be better spent encouraging pet owners to be responsible for not letting their dogs run loose.

I'll certainly take my father's word -- he has practiced veterinary medicine for 50 years -- over the opinions of some irresponsible guy on the Internet who can't control his dog as evidenced by multiple incidents and thinks it's macho to keep un-neutered dogs.

After reviewing this thread, I am convinced MG is right and you have no business owning animals. If you came near my dogs with a rod, you'd be having that rod surgically removed from your lower intestines.

[Tony]

I'll certainly take my father's word -- he has practiced veterinary medicine for 50 years -- over the opinions of some irresponsible guy on the Internet who can't control his dog as evidenced by multiple incidents and thinks it's macho to keep un-neutered dogs.

After reviewing this thread, I am convinced MG is right and you have no business owning animals. If you came near my dogs with a rod, you'd be having that rod surgically removed from your lower intestines.

You bet. Hey, what happened to the sound advise you gave your boy friend mg2ride?

[djg21]

What happened to the sound advise you gave your boy friend mg2ride?

I know when I'm communicating with someone who doesn't actually want advice, but rather wants others to validate his decisions and conduct. This may be evidenced by those persons characterizing the advice given as "propaganda."

[tkbike]

Can you please provide the scientific research to back this statement up? As a dog owner I am quite interested in this.

It's actually healthier for the dog at a certain point to be neutered. Neutered dogs have fewer issues with cancer.
After a dog is physically mature, there is no reason to not to neuter unless you are breeding. Same goes with females. Reputable breeders stop breeding dams at around 5 1/2 -6 years and have their dogs spayed. This avoids issues of ovarian cancer as the dogs age.




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[djg21]

Can you please provide the scientific research to back this statement up? As a dog owner I am quite interested in this.

You can do a google search. In males, neutering decreases the chances of the dog developing prostatic disease and hernias, and eliminates the chances of developing testicular cancer. There may be wisdom in waiting until a dog is sexually mature, i.e., 18 mos. or so rather than altering earlier. You should talk to your veterinarian.

[AngryScientist]

I think this one is done folks; not much more to be said.