Did I act like a jerk?

[ANAO]

Commuting in on the city bike this morning, I pulled onto the WSH on 42nd street, just like any other day. At 40th, I noticed a woman on a foldup bike not quite drafting me, but riding right up behind me. Maybe 3-4 bike lengths back. Still pretty close.

At ~24th street, she pulls around me (by that crosswalk/car area) and I sidle in beside her. Head on a swivel, once we clear the chelsea pier area, she begins to yell at me. "Stop tailgating me!" I just ride on. "Get off my wheel!" I yelled back (over the wind), "Why!" "It's dangerous!" "Oh, it wasn't dangerous when you sucked my wheel for 15 blocks!?" "It's different! I'm experienced! Stop tailgating me!"

At this point, the conversation had run its course, but I carried it on, beating the dead horse as I am wont to do in situations where I seek to bother the (IMHO) offender. "I like it back here, it smells nice!" She shook her head and started to pedal harder...but I was heavier and 2 pedal strokes later, I was coasting back into her draft.

I sat back there for another 10 seconds or so before pulling around her....where she got back on my wheel!! Sure, her own 3-4 bike length way, but I was only 2-3 behind her! Almost comparable, right? I proceeded to ride her into the ground (on the citibike) before thinking to myself I should have snapped a picture. I began to coast and took out my phone, only to realize she must have pulled off, as she was nowhere to be seen behind me.

Which made me realize I probably didn't ride her into the ground...

What would you have done? Was I being too much of a jerk?

[velomonkey]

The 'smell' comment was a bit much, but, bro, it's commuting by bike. Relax.

This is one step shy of the mindless zombies in their steel coffins burning fossil fuel sitting in traffic getting all road raged up.

Kill 'em with kindness I say.

[BSUdude]

Yes. Life's too short. Hit it hard for a minute and leave her in the dust, then go along your merry way.

[ANAO]

The 'smell' comment was a bit much, but, bro, it's commuting by bike. Relax.

This is one step shy of the mindless zombies in their steel coffins burning fossil fuel sitting in traffic getting all road raged up.

Kill 'em with kindness I say.

I was mostly just getting worked up that she assumed because I was on a citibike, she was experienced and I, not. That and she was being hypocritical!

[christian]

You don't get much of a draft that way. I like to sit right on their wheel. :)

Also, these things are tough to bunny hop.

[fuzzalow]

C'mon, it's New York. Fuhgeddaboudit!

velomonkey's got it right, kill 'em with kindness. Rise above anybody else's bats**t neuroses and do not present bicycling as a halfway house for outcasts and weirdos that "can't afford" to enter car culture.

[makoti]

Yeah, the "smell" comment was over the top, but it just sounds like the two of you had a rough morning. If it bothers you, keep an eye out for her & next time apologize, even if you don't think you did anything wrong, just to smooth things over.

[deechee]

uh no. you're not a jerk. bike commuters are bizzare.

[jr59]

It seems every time I ask myself this question; I'm already far over the line of being a jerk.

Not to say I haven't done it about 1,000,000+ times, but still.

[SlackMan]

Yeah, the "smell" comment was over the top, but it just sounds like the two of you had a rough morning. If it bothers you, keep an eye out for her & next time apologize, even if you don't think you did anything wrong, just to smooth things over.

^^This

[JAllen]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Sure the smell comment was much, but we don't always act our best in heightened state. Not to mention we've all been roadway jerks at one time or another (not saying you were blatant). For example:

On a super windy day on my commute back home from a rough day I get blasted by two homies on their fixies. No call out and was within inches of me, scaring me pretty bad. So I preceded to ride a foot off the last guys wheel for about a mile or two. At the right moment I attacked hard and dropped them like a bad habit. Pissed them off pretty good.

[MattTuck]

You don't get much of a draft that way. I like to sit right on their wheel. :)

Also, these things are tough to bunny hop.


Have I been imagining things, or have you been absent, Christian?


I'm with you. 2-4 bike lengths seems like a lot of space. Certainly not drafting or tailgating. On the other hand, maybe a citibike weighs 40 pounds and you need a bit more distance to stop safely? I have no idea.

[rugbysecondrow]

I like the sense of humor (smells nice back here). At least you didn't say, "I just enjoy the view from behind"...or maybe you should have. :beer:

You didn't tell her to eff off or anything like that. She was uncool and you responded with a joke. Seems fair.

Cheers

[fuzzalow]

^^^^ No, not this!

Anonymity is what people work off of unless they want somebody to enter their space. This is just another chance encounter with no more significance or remembrance than any of the thousands of inputs tossed aside in daily life.

Don't look for a connection where none was warranted or offered. Fuhgeddaboutit.

[rugbysecondrow]

^^^^ No, not this!

Anonymity is what people work off of unless they want somebody to enter their space. This is just another chance encounter with no more significance or remembrance than any of the thousands of inputs tossed aside in daily life.

Don't look for a connection where none was warranted or offered. Fuhgeddaboutit.

I am lost Fuzz my man, is your comment related to mine? Not sure I understand the Anonymity and connection comments. Cheers!

[rzthomas]

N / m

[bigflax925]

I like the sense of humor (smells nice back here). At least you didn't say, "I just enjoy the view from behind"...or maybe you should have. :beer:

You didn't tell her to eff off or anything like that. She was uncool and you responded with a joke. Seems fair.

Cheers

I'm with Rugby on this. Sounds like you made the best of the situation. Life's short - have fun.

[SeanScott]

"The jerk store called, they're running out of you!"
- George

j/k, sounds like a harmless run-in with someone who was slightly grouchy

[thwart]

My rule of thumb is if someone is pissed that I'm behind/drafting them, I slow down or pass.

You sounded upset that she was drafting you, but apparently you said nothing.

Then again... not that I have ever acted like a jerk... :rolleyes:

Yet today, anyway. But it's early. :D

[fuzzalow]

I am lost Fuzz my man, is your comment related to mine? Not sure I understand the Anonymity and connection comments. Cheers!

No, rugby it was in response to a few more up.

This one:

Yeah, the "smell" comment was over the top, but it just sounds like the two of you had a rough morning. If it bothers you, keep an eye out for her & next time apologize, even if you don't think you did anything wrong, just to smooth things over.

So I am not even hinting at misogyny, NYC of all genders and ethnicities is generally not bashful about meeting people and making connections. But you gotta respect private space which in Manhattan is often a separation of inches (e.g. Subway). If anybody is remotely interested, you'll know - anything else can be perceived of as rude or an affront. So trailing in her wake and making comments was outta line. Leave your macho bike-stud at home, the fact that she tried to pedal away from the OP was not an attempt to "drop", it was to get away from being harassed by a stranger on a morning commute.

Manhattan - 1.6 million people, all of them lonely. Isn't too far from the truth.

[djg21]

Commuting in on the city bike this morning, I pulled onto the WSH on 42nd street, just like any other day. At 40th, I noticed a woman on a foldup bike not quite drafting me, but riding right up behind me. Maybe 3-4 bike lengths back. Still pretty close.

At ~24th street, she pulls around me (by that crosswalk/car area) and I sidle in beside her. Head on a swivel, once we clear the chelsea pier area, she begins to yell at me. "Stop tailgating me!" I just ride on. "Get off my wheel!" I yelled back (over the wind), "Why!" "It's dangerous!" "Oh, it wasn't dangerous when you sucked my wheel for 15 blocks!?" "It's different! I'm experienced! Stop tailgating me!"

At this point, the conversation had run its course, but I carried it on, beating the dead horse as I am wont to do in situations where I seek to bother the (IMHO) offender. "I like it back here, it smells nice!" She shook her head and started to pedal harder...but I was heavier and 2 pedal strokes later, I was coasting back into her draft.

I sat back there for another 10 seconds or so before pulling around her....where she got back on my wheel!! Sure, her own 3-4 bike length way, but I was only 2-3 behind her! Almost comparable, right? I proceeded to ride her into the ground (on the citibike) before thinking to myself I should have snapped a picture. I began to coast and took out my phone, only to realize she must have pulled off, as she was nowhere to be seen behind me.

Which made me realize I probably didn't ride her into the ground...

What would you have done? Was I being too much of a jerk?

If you have to ask if you were acting like a jerk, you probably already know the answer to your question.

Maybe you could have been pleasant and struck up a short conversation about the weather and what a nice morning it was for a ride? What does it matter to you if she is a couple bike lengths behind you? How do you know you are more experienced a rider than her? You were being pretty presumptuous and condescending. And who cares if you were more experienced. If you were making her nervous by riding her wheel, you should have passed her or backed off.

The "smell" comment was pretty rude and creepy.

[zap]

edit


What would you have done?

If someone was drafting me, good for them. But 3-4 lengths, that's just riding behind you and not a big deal.

If the person got in front and was not happy with me being too close, I'd hang even further back or power on past.

It's not unusual for women not wanting men riding behind them. For many reasons. My wife tells me that there are a lot of weird blokes in cycling kit out there.

Anyhow, I would be the gentleman and respect the ladies wish.

[RonW87]

Was I being too much of a jerk?

yes. but for reasons not dealt with yet. I assume you are male. I also bet you are not married.

[-dustin]

"I like it back here, it smells nice!"
high five!

[rugbysecondrow]

Dumb comment/question:

In a city, with lots of people and more riders, isn't 2-3 or 3-4 lengths acceptable. If I were on a rural road, I would be aware and not creep on a female rider (or any rider for that matter). Even as I walked in my building this morning,I purposefully changed my walking pattern to provide comfort to a female walker in front of me. I didn't want her to think I was following her. I even went in a different side door, so I do try to be aware, but in a commuter situation, folks are just trying to get to work. Isn't the bike just another tool for transportation. It isn't personal space so much as it is safe travel/commuting space, right?

[Dave B]

I think it is funny and while I am sure some don't that is ok with me too.

Look a bit of humor every day keeps you from climbing to the top of a watch trower and plucking off the undesirables.

PLus people take themselves waaay to seriously.



Although, just had a thought. If you were concerned about this enough to ask us know it alls, then maybe you yourself aren't proud of what you did. Maybe it was a gut reaction to a funky situation. So if it does bother you that you made the comment then you know to keep your yap shut next time.

I am still going with funny though.

[christian]

If the person got in front and was not happy with me being too close, I'd hang even further back or power on past.
The trouble is that on the WSBP, especially around Chelsea Piers, this isn't really that easy. Complainant is on a Citibike; let's say the other rider is on a 10-speed and zips past him just before the S-turns at Chelsea Piers. He's now going to be behind her until ~18th Street, with zero opportunity to pass. She's also naturally going to slow down in that section - it's narrower than the rest of the bike path and more crowded - so anyone riding behind her is likely to start stacking up.

The comments were out of line, but the bike path is crowded in the am; she's going to have to get used to people riding on it. It's not her bike path.

FWIW, I leave Grand Central around 6:45 every am. You can sit on my wheel all you want.

[nooneline]

If someone was drafting me, good for them. But 3-4 lengths, that's just riding behind you and not a big deal.

If the person got in front and was not happy with me being too close, I'd hang even further back or power on past.

It's not unusual for women not wanting men riding behind them. For many reasons. My wife tells me that there are a lot of weird blokes in cycling kit out there.

Anyhow, I would be the gentleman and respect the ladies wish.

+1.

Easy rule of thumb: If somebody doesn't want you drafting them, don't draft them.

One of my pet peeves is going for a ride with a friend, or a sweetheart, and having some stranger basically getting all proctological on us. The hell? It's like a stranger sitting down at your table at a restaurant. Riding a bike doesn't give you license to get all up in somebody else's personal space.

Especially with the gender thing. There are definitely way, way, way too many creeps both on bike and off, and many women are rightfully creeped out when men don't respect their personal space in public.

While I think that perhaps it sounds a bit weird that the person in the OP's post was willing to ride close to somebody but got ornery at 'just a little bit closer,' still, just play it safe and don't be a jerk and violate somebody else's wishes Because Bikes.

I like the sense of humor (smells nice back here). At least you didn't say, "I just enjoy the view from behind"...or maybe you should have. :beer:

Well. Definitely shouldn't have done that.

[etu]

yeah, you're were being a jerk
we've all done it, but the it doesn't make it right- as you probably already realize.

[earlfoss]

If you don't like her on your wheel just work up a fart and let it go while she's back there.

[bobswire]

I wouldn't worry about it too much Anao, responses like yours and hers are built into our DNA, a kind of self defense mechanism for real or perceived slights.For the most part we control it but sometimes Mr Hyde rises to the challenge. Just about everyone responding in this thread has had an encounter with another forum member (me included) for a real or imagined perceived slight.

[fuzzalow]

Dumb comment/question:

In a city, with lots of people and more riders, isn't 2-3 or 3-4 lengths acceptable. If I were on a rural road, I would be aware and not creep on a female rider (or any rider for that matter). Even as I walked in my building this morning,I purposefully changed my walking pattern to provide comfort to a female walker in front of me. I didn't want her to think I was following her. I even went in a different side door, so I do try to be aware, but in a commuter situation, folks are just trying to get to work. Isn't the bike just another tool for transportation. It isn't personal space so much as it is safe travel/commuting space, right?

It isn't the actual physical distance of bike lengths - it is the psychic distance of being not near somebody who doesn't want to be near somebody else. So a half foot is as good as a mile - just the the eff away from me!

In the example of the OP, it isn't a physical contest of a woman "dropping" a man akin to a race as a biking Tour de Path.

It is like a nightclub where she turned around with her drink and walked away, into the crowd, without turning around with a glance of invitation, away from where you were standing, while you were in mid-sentence, strides with purpose and calm detachment. And all she left you was the sight of a beautiful walk.

[rugbysecondrow]

It isn't the actual physical distance of bike lengths - it is the psychic distance of being not near somebody who doesn't want to be near somebody else. So a half foot is as good as a mile - just the the eff away from me!

In the example of the OP, it isn't a physical contest of a woman "dropping" a man akin to a race as a biking Tour de Path.

It is like a nightclub where she turned around with her drink and walked away, into the crowd, without turning around with a glance of invitation, away from where you were standing, while you were in mid-sentence, strides with purpose and calm detachment. And all she left you was the sight of a beautiful walk.

Haha, touché.

But when commuting, do you, or should you, expect personal space or should you just expect safe space?

[Joachim]

I wonder if she is posting on a forum somewhere?

[Bob Ross]

Easy rule of thumb: If somebody doesn't want you drafting them, don't draft them.

Yeah, ^^^this. It's may be a slightly marginalized corrollary to The Golden Rule, but it oughtta be in every cyclist's playbook.


However...

"It's different! I'm experienced! Stop tailgating me!"

...^^^this is something that gets my goat perhaps even more than uninvited drafting: That erudite sense that some roadies get where they believe that their skills entitle them to behave in ways that others around them couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't. And I know I'm occasionally guilty of it too. You know you're capable of safely threading that needle, or handling that curve at 25+mph, or making the pass without boxing someone in, etc. ...but they don't know that you're capable of executing that safely, and so your behavior is perceived as dangerous/threatening. Doesn't matter if you don't think it is; threat is defined by the threatened.

So screw her and her "it's different" delusion.



(What's that George Carlin line? Something like "Ever notice how everyone going slower than you is a jerk, and everyone going faster than you is an asshole?")

[djg21]

So screw her and her "it's different" delusion.

I was under the impression that the "I'm experienced" comment was made by our OP, and not the woman. The Initial post isn't clear to me.

[ANAO]

I was under the impression that the "I'm experienced" comment was made by our OP, and not the woman. The Initial post isn't clear to me.

She told me she was experienced.

I think this all could have been avoided if she coasted for 5 seconds and then continued on her way.

Instead of overtaking me at the most crowded part of the path and then slowing slightly (once out of the draft, she couldn't maintain the same speed).

I didn't hold any hard feelings, I was mostly just messing with her because of the way she seemed to be exeplifying what I thought to be a double standard.

That in particular was what I was wondering when I asked if I was being a jerk.

[ANAO]

I wonder if she is posting on a forum somewhere?

When considering to create this post after she disappeared, I thought, "I need to include that!" Then I made this post and forgot.

[makoti]

^^^^ No, not this!

Anonymity is what people work off of unless they want somebody to enter their space. This is just another chance encounter with no more significance or remembrance than any of the thousands of inputs tossed aside in daily life.

Don't look for a connection where none was warranted or offered. Fuhgeddaboutit.

I don't think I suggested he ask her out. I'm also not suggesting he stalk her to apologize. Just if he sees her soon, and they are in a similar situation, hey, sorry about the other day, drop back, done. Jeez. Be human.

[Saint Vitus]

She told me she was experienced.



Which begs the question:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gDaXwJvNQo

[soulspinner]

i wonder if she is posting on a forum somewhere?

hmmmm

[Tickdoc]

OP: if your not married yet, I think you found your life partner:D

[pdmtong]

I was mostly just messing with her .....

the answer appears.

lets say someone messed with you because they felt (unbeknownst to you) that you crossed some sort of line ... what would you think of them?

I bet it would go something like "what the e f f did I do? what a jerk..."

If you find yourself in an unwanted situation, don't rely on the other rider to act in a way to extricate you. Just like most things involving self, the outcome can be governed by self.

[Johnnyg]

Commuting in on the city bike this morning, I pulled onto the WSH on 42nd street, just like any other day. At 40th, I noticed a woman on a foldup bike not quite drafting me, but riding right up behind me. Maybe 3-4 bike lengths back. Still pretty close.

At ~24th street, she pulls around me (by that crosswalk/car area) and I sidle in beside her. Head on a swivel, once we clear the chelsea pier area, she begins to yell at me. "Stop tailgating me!" I just ride on. "Get off my wheel!" I yelled back (over the wind), "Why!" "It's dangerous!" "Oh, it wasn't dangerous when you sucked my wheel for 15 blocks!?" "It's different! I'm experienced! Stop tailgating me!"

At this point, the conversation had run its course, but I carried it on, beating the dead horse as I am wont to do in situations where I seek to bother the (IMHO) offender. "I like it back here, it smells nice!" She shook her head and started to pedal harder...but I was heavier and 2 pedal strokes later, I was coasting back into her draft.

I sat back there for another 10 seconds or so before pulling around her....where she got back on my wheel!! Sure, her own 3-4 bike length way, but I was only 2-3 behind her! Almost comparable, right? I proceeded to ride her into the ground (on the citibike) before thinking to myself I should have snapped a picture. I began to coast and took out my phone, only to realize she must have pulled off, as she was nowhere to be seen behind me.

Which made me realize I probably didn't ride her into the ground...

What would you have done? Was I being too much of a jerk?
Should have asked her is she wanted to get a room. ;-)

[ANAO]

the answer appears.

lets say someone messed with you because they felt (unbeknownst to you) that you crossed some sort of line ... what would you think of them?

I bet it would go something like "what the e f f did I do? what a jerk..."

If you find yourself in an unwanted situation, don't rely on the other rider to act in a way to extricate you. Just like most things involving self, the outcome can be governed by self.

But...too much of a jerk or just the right amount?

[Kirk007]

Discussing bike commuting is to me akin to our discussions re car-cyclist interactions. A jerk is a jerk whether on a bike or in a car; a person can be having a bad day while on a bike or in a car or walking or ..... Unfortunately, folks don't check their personalities, manners, neuroses etc merely by throwing their leg over the top tube. Riding does a lot of things but this level of behaviour modification is unfortunately too much to ask. So were you a jerk - perhaps, but we're all human and have our good and bad moments. I'd make peace with yourself and stow it away as a lesson.

All that said, there are some stereotypic commuters that crack me up/piss me off (depending on my mood). (thread drift)

There are the ones on beater mountain bikes who seem to be enraged at the sight of lycra and road bikes. You probably know the type -- they do their best to pass/drop the target of their anger/self-confidence/whatever, typically and unknowingly doing their best Froome imitation - elbows out, head down, legs/knees mirroring the angles of their arms/elbows as they do their best to blast away from the intersection or to come "flying" past, pedaling in anger. Or course a couple hundred yards up the way, less if there's a hill, their momentary spurt is shot, leaving you with the decision, do you slow and interfere with your pace or do you hold your pace and pass, knowing that you may be feeding the beast and setting a feedback loop.

Then there are the ones whose riding experience seems to be developed mostly in spin classes. These can be even more annoying as they may have a level of fitness to ride reasonably fast, but they have no clue as to how to ride on the road. Frequently wearing modesty shorts over lycra, they are all over the bike and all over the road. Stop signs? Mere suggestions - they've got the ear buds on and are grooving to the beat. Of course, these riders also frequently do the speed yo-yos as if they are doing intervals to the music. Passing them on their rest cycles also seems to elicit the competitive spirit. Oh, time to jump and stand on those peddles - another 30 seconds, go, go .....

And lets not forget the "pro" roadies. Obviously in the know and superior to all other life forms on a bike, they are so serious they have no time for an on your left or nod of head, and think nothing of a close pass on the MUP, riding as if they are in the middle of the pack on the run up to the 1K banner.

The worst is when there is a barrier on the route - for me its a draw bridge. This creates a confluence of all types, a peloton of craziness. The first 3 minutes after the draw bridge barrier is raised is some of the most dangerous riding I encounter. Survival strategies are either, if you are at the front of the pack - jump hard and distance yourself or just let everyone go, soft pedal and watch the silliness from behind.

[fuzzalow]

I don't think I suggested he ask her out. I'm also not suggesting he stalk her to apologize. Just if he sees her soon, and they are in a similar situation, hey, sorry about the other day, drop back, done. Jeez. Be human.

Easy now, we're just talkin' here. Without making any Easy Listenin' wisecracks about classic Doobies versus sellout Doobies, I think a few lines outta "What a Fool Believes" go like:

She had a place in his life
He never made her think twice

And it's sad but true that city living, especially in NYC, can be very impersonal. So a nod or a shared smirk goes a long way. But those will be few and far between because that's just how it is, I dunno why - can never be too careful in this town fulla strangers. But bring people together that manages to pass muster and New Yorkers are among the best anywhere.

If the OP was just "messing with her" then that is all need be said about being a jerk.

[Rusty Luggs]

My vote= "jerk"

[Likes2ridefar]

jerk, I'd say.

in my 10 or so years of commuting on the WSH, my rule was to never draft and never be drafted upon because I don't want to be responsible for another person on a public path.

I stopped pedaling if someone got on my wheel and let them pass. It always worked. They would just ride on by.

[PFSLABD]

I have a folding bike, a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket. It has 20 inch wheels and a comparable gear train to a regular 700 C road bike, 60/48 X 12/21. The small wheels allow me to draft 6 inches off the wheel in front of me. If she was 5 to 6 wheel lengths behind you, she was way back and getting no draft at all. What is the beef, or am I not understanding what you mean?

[shovelhd]

Yes. 3-4 lengths is well within the bounds of safety.

[jmikeq]

My vote= "jerk"

jerk, I'd say.

in my 10 or so years of commuting on the WSH, my rule was to never draft and never be drafted upon because I don't want to be responsible for another person on a public path.

I stopped pedaling if someone got on my wheel and let them pass. It always worked. They would just ride on by.


Pretty much.

[donalrey]

cat 6 stories...

[FlacVest]

Commuting in on the city bike this morning, I pulled onto the WSH on 42nd street, just like any other day. At 40th, I noticed a woman on a foldup bike not quite drafting me, but riding right up behind me. Maybe 3-4 bike lengths back. Still pretty close.

At ~24th street, she pulls around me (by that crosswalk/car area) and I sidle in beside her. Head on a swivel, once we clear the chelsea pier area, she begins to yell at me. "Stop tailgating me!" I just ride on. "Get off my wheel!" I yelled back (over the wind), "Why!" "It's dangerous!" "Oh, it wasn't dangerous when you sucked my wheel for 15 blocks!?" "It's different! I'm experienced! Stop tailgating me!"

At this point, the conversation had run its course, but I carried it on, beating the dead horse as I am wont to do in situations where I seek to bother the (IMHO) offender. "I like it back here, it smells nice!" She shook her head and started to pedal harder...but I was heavier and 2 pedal strokes later, I was coasting back into her draft.

I sat back there for another 10 seconds or so before pulling around her....where she got back on my wheel!! Sure, her own 3-4 bike length way, but I was only 2-3 behind her! Almost comparable, right? I proceeded to ride her into the ground (on the citibike) before thinking to myself I should have snapped a picture. I began to coast and took out my phone, only to realize she must have pulled off, as she was nowhere to be seen behind me.

Which made me realize I probably didn't ride her into the ground...

What would you have done? Was I being too much of a jerk?

This is probably the saddest post I've ever read on this site.

[cinema]

I don't understand the point of getting upset. Neither of you were that close to each other. 3-4 bike lengths? A lot of times some idiot will be riding my wheel literally 0-12 inches away during my commute. I also trail people without passing that look very inexperienced (no helmet, beach cruiser, yoga mat) here because I'm not sure they're aware of me and I don't want to scare them into swerving left or right (into traffic or a parked car). At a stop light they either turn off or ride through and that's that. If it's someone who's slow or being inconsiderate I just speed up or stop at a stop light and it's over. I don't get the point about getting upset over this its not even an issue.

She doesn't sound like a threat to me, like I don't think at that point she would overlap your wheel or something. You don't even really get a draft at that distance.

[pdmtong]

But...too much of a jerk or just the right amount?

since you asked, yes IMHO, you were "too much of a jerk"

[Louis]

http://images1.westword.com/imager/the-jimi-hendrix-experiences-are-you-e/u/original/6406494/051412_hendrix_001.jpg

[JAllen]

http://images1.westword.com/imager/the-jimi-hendrix-experiences-are-you-e/u/original/6406494/051412_hendrix_001.jpg

Great album! ...and funny.

[ANAO]

So it's decided then: next time just smile and wave.

[nicrump]

my girlfriend would have probably hooked you onto the curb and then went back to stomp. but she is a tough one who holds her own and takes shizzle from no one.

[fuzzalow]

Lotta fuss goin' in this thread. Not all of it without cause IMO because there were mixed and crossed signals that could lay blame to either of the parties involved. No need to rehash all that.

But I can only add one thing as a general statement that I think should apply here overall and then as directly aimed solely at the OP:
In the bigger picture and overall responsibility each of us should have in contributing to the growth and well being of bicycling, all of us should try to be less confrontational. Vis-a-vis other bicyclists, other motorists, other pedestrians. Because we get nowhere unless we can do it together as a responsible, law abiding, human powered, two wheeled, cohesive community.

The OP as a knowledgeable bike enthusiast, bears the brunt of seniority as a cyclist and must put up with the misconceptions, bullsh_t and incorrect behaviours of others without allowing himself to be dragged down to a level beneath him. Because he knows better, has seen all the BS before and knows what to expect and how to react - do not turn negative, that is weakness and a prerequisite to failure.

Yeah, this sounds preachy. And I may sound like a broken record to some. But as a cyclist I wanna move forwards and I am not afraid to try. But as long as we fight with each other we'll each savor the little pissant victories and, in time, lose the war.

[weisan]

I had a "somewhat" similar experience a while back, it was during my morning commute and it was still relatively dark. I was making a left turn from a side road and at the corner of my eye, I could see another biker coming at me with a bright headlight but I could tell it was still quite a distance away so I successfully made my left turn. As I picked up speed, I can only assume that the rider is behind me especially with its headlight throwing some light in front of me. I began to go at a pretty good clip but mind you, I was on my modified MTB with big knobby tires so it wasn't like I was racing at 25 mph but more like 16 or 18 mph. From the light, I could tell the rider is gaining on me so I slowed down to let it pass me. I waited....and waited, it decided to stay behind so I picked up the pace again. I went from 16 to 18 to 20 to 23...WTH?! It still won't let up but followed closely behind me. Finally, I ran out of steam and I slowed way way down, almost to walking pace. It finally came up alongside me...and SHE SMILED!

WHAT THE....?!?!

It was a gal on an electric bike and she just smiled at me as she passed...:p

Don't I feel stupid.... :D

And if I am not married, I would give chase.

[ANAO]

Lotta fuss goin' in this thread. Not all of it without cause IMO because there were mixed and crossed signals that could lay blame to either of the parties involved. No need to rehash all that.

But I can only add one thing as a general statement that I think should apply here overall and then as directly aimed solely at the OP:
In the bigger picture and overall responsibility each of us should have in contributing to the growth and well being of bicycling, all of us should try to be less confrontational. Vis-a-vis other bicyclists, other motorists, other pedestrians. Because we get nowhere unless we can do it together as a responsible, law abiding, human powered, two wheeled, cohesive community.

The OP as a knowledgeable bike enthusiast, bears the brunt of seniority as a cyclist and must put up with the misconceptions, bullsh_t and incorrect behaviours of others without allowing himself to be dragged down to a level beneath him. Because he knows better, has seen all the BS before and knows what to expect and how to react - do not turn negative, that is weakness and a prerequisite to failure.

Yeah, this sounds preachy. And I may sound like a broken record to some. But as a cyclist I wanna move forwards and I am not afraid to try. But as long as we fight with each other we'll each savor the little pissant victories and, in time, lose the war.

Thanks Fuzz.

(The collective) You're right. Well, those of you who were referring to my actions with regards to the ride. In hindsight, I should have just dropped her earlier, or slowed way down when she passed me.

Something about that morning commute and the crisp air this morning got my blood a-curdlin....

Wherever you are, if you're reading this, sorry I bothered you. You did nothing to deserve my jerkness.

[R3awak3n]

NY has quite the CAT 6 drafters.

Had some guy behind me on the williamsburg bridge, he is on my ass for most of the bridge and I just pull to the side and tell him, get out of my ass. And he is like "WHY?" "Whats the problem?" then starts doing hand jestures like he is going to slit my throat or some things. I am a big guy and maybe he is an MMA fighter but by the look of things I would sit on him and kill him. Of course I don't want to get in a fight just really wanted him to get off my ass.

The problem was not that I care that people draft me but this kid had no helmet, no brakes on his converted crappy fixie. He had been following me for a while. I catch up to him at the end of the bridge and he still jesturing stuff at me. I told him to go F himself and we went our way.

I told my wife and she told me I was an ass for it so I pulled the footage of my camera and even though she still thought I was an ass I at least was right that the guy was right no my wheel, so close that I could not even see his front wheel on the camera.

Oh well, NY for you.

[unterhausen]

I think a lot of time the tailgaters want to pass, but they don't see a safe way to do it. Or maybe not. But really, what's the big deal if someone is sitting on your wheel? Odds are, they are the one that is going down if a touch occurs. Lots of ways to get them to back off if you think about it.

controlling myself from acting like a jerk is a struggle. I ran into two road-ragers on my commute today, and I lost my temper with both of them. It happens, and it would have taken a saint, especially with the second one acting like such an idiot after I already had a run in with an idiot earlier. I can't wait for the helicopter parents to leave town and the friends to be disinvited from visiting because the students are too busy

[shovelhd]

Wives speak the truth don't they?

[JAllen]

I had a "somewhat" similar experience a while back, it was during my morning commute and it was still relatively dark. I was making a left turn from a side road and at the corner of my eye, I could see another biker coming at me with a bright headlight but I could tell it was still quite a distance away so I successfully made my left turn. As I picked up speed, I can only assume that the rider is behind me especially with its headlight throwing some light in front of me. I began to go at a pretty good clip but mind you, I was on my modified MTB with big knobby tires so it wasn't like I was racing at 25 mph but more like 16 or 18 mph. From the light, I could tell the rider is gaining on me so I slowed down to let it pass me. I waited....and waited, it decided to stay behind so I picked up the pace again. I went from 16 to 18 to 20 to 23...WTH?! It still won't let up but followed closely behind me. Finally, I ran out of steam and I slowed way way down, almost to walking pace. It finally came up alongside me...and SHE SMILED!

WHAT THE....?!?!

It was a gal on an electric bike and she just smiled at me as she passed...:p

Don't I feel stupid.... :D

And if I am not married, I would give chase.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it seems like she might not understand cycling etiquette. That might also be a bit of bias against the conduct a lot of ebike riders have displayed.

... Oh boy, now I just sound like an angry motorist "get off the road dammit!" :p

[fuzzalow]

Had some guy behind me on the williamsburg bridge, he is on my ass for most of the bridge and I just pull to the side and tell him, get out of my ass. And he is like "WHY?" "Whats the problem?" then starts doing hand jestures like he is going to slit my throat or some things. I am a big guy and maybe he is an MMA fighter but by the look of things I would sit on him and kill him. Of course I don't want to get in a fight just really wanted him to get off my ass.

Pulling over to the side was all that was required. No words were necessary. For pete's sake, I say this outta respect for you guys because I look at Paceliners as senior members of the bike community that which the majority of us also posses the capability to lead. Trading expletives with this kid is beneath you. You knew what this kid was doin' and someone like that will always respond to provocation with his balls because he has no brains.

I have said this before using the example of driving a car: I haven't flipped anyone the bird or gotten upset behind the wheel in years. I know I am a highly skilled driver compared to them and I already know the mistakes they might make before they make them. Because I have seen most of it before and I am capable of thinking for the both of us. Sometimes I still get surprised but I still don't get upset - I am bemused that their screwup was one I'd not experienced before.

OK. Don't wanna bore the crap outta yous. That's all for me on this one, see you at the next stop.

[OtayBW]

...because I look at Paceliners as senior members of the bike community that which the majority of us also posses the capability to lead.I hate to say it, but given the recent spate of opinions expressed around here recently about running red lights and stop signs willy-nilly, I'm beginning to wonder about that....

[ultraman6970]

Never got whats the big deal of somebody drafting... ok the dude is behind... why to ruin the whole ride because a dude is behind. Is just a waste of time and energy to enter in that... "dont draft me crxp." But IMO some people is just too competitive to even figure it out that :)

Life is too short... if somebody wants to draft great :) just be friendly, invite the guy to ride at your side if you are not going to fast, probably you can earn a friend outta the situation. For example I met MD3000 that way... we went uphill faster and faster trying to cut to each other off the wheel :D

For the ones that get mad... dont waste your time getting mad... it could be me the one sticked to your wheel track style :D

[Kirk007]

Never got whats the big deal of somebody drafting... :D

the big deal, for me is that 99.99% of the time, if I'm on a commute, I want my space.

I don't want to think about the guy behind me going down or hitting me if I need to do an emergency stop. I don't want to listen to his or her crappy rattling, creaking bike. I sure as heck don't want to listen to the music that is playing from their handlebar. I don't want to physically or mentally feel their presence. I want to be left alone. With my thoughts. My worries. My dreams.

Riding for me is often like a Zen state - aware of my surroundings but with a relaxed or empty mind. Drafters intrude on my meditation, and it is often hard to ignore their presence. And why the f8ck should they be drafting me? It's just rude, ATMO. I either drop them or stop, then go about my way. I suspect most of the time they have no idea why.

[Peter P.]

Yes, you were being a jerk, because you stooped so low as to respond with the same poor behavior as your adversary. Why would you want to act like the jerk SHE was?

Your felt threatened either by her tailgating the 15 blocks or the fact she passed you, so you had to prove your superiority by matching her speed with ease, on a Citibike, for additional effect.

And 3-4 bike lengths back does not qualify as drafting, unless you're a Cat. VI.

[makoti]

What have we learned today, class? That's right - never, ever ask Paceline if perhaps you had been jerky. We are only too happy to point it out. :fight:

[unterhausen]

I don't want to think about the guy behind me going down or hitting me if I need to do an emergency stop. I don't want to listen to his or her crappy rattling, creaking bike. I sure as heck don't want to listen to the music that is playing from their handlebar. I don't want to physically or mentally feel their presence. I want to be left alone. With my thoughts. My worries. My dreams. huh, on the way to work, I'm thinking about what I'm going to be doing that day. On the way home, I'm thinking about what I am going to be doing the next day or some other work-related thought. A person on a bike isn't going to bother me at all.

As far as listening to the bike, you have a point. I was riding in the Delaware Water Gap park, and I passed by a guy getting his mtb out of his car. I was finishing up 125 miles of tough riding, and I was bonking pretty bad. I think no more of the guy on the mtb until a couple of miles later, he misses a shift, drops the chain, and I just about jump out of my skin. He had apparently been drafting me for some time.

[pdmtong]

What have we learned today, class? That's right - never, ever ask Paceline if perhaps you had been jerky. We are only too happy to point it out. :fight:

Actually what we learned today is if you ask a question here, you should expect a range of answers from the one line emotional to the paragraph thoughtful.

And to the OP's credit, he took the feedback, gave it some thought, and came to see the world a different way. Unlike other threads, the OP did not wax on defending his actions to arrive at the point he originally may have wanted to prove (example: the guy who hid his kids baseball glove)...oh no. he asked a fair question and got plenty of fair answers.

all one can ask is to take the feedback at large, come to one's own conclusions and move on.

as I once said, there's a lot to learn by reading an opposing view.

FYI a buddy of mine was on someones wheel just briefly up a short stinger. they both got to the top and the lead guy exploded, yelling at my pal to come around. when my friend didn't, the guy slammed on his brakes trying to force a rear end collision. now my pal passes sensing this guy is whacked. he was. as they descend the crazy guy rides up and starts leaning towards my pal like he is going to push him off. really? over a 500m stinger? is everyone just a few seconds from going all charles bronson?

just keep smiling and extend a paw...life is too short

[etu]

And to the OP's credit, he took the feedback, gave it some thought, and came to see the world a different way.


1+++
Definitely not always easy to do!:beer:

[unterhausen]

wasn't it obvious that the OP was already thinking they had been a jerk? That takes a certain amount of insight, really. I think he's probably a good guy and just got set off. It happens

[torquer]

FWIW, I leave Grand Central around 6:45 every am. You can sit on my wheel all you want.

I have this image of a Citibike TTT on the WSBP...

[ANAO]

I have this image of a Citibike TTT on the WSBP...

So in. But I don't ride until 8 or so.

[Bob Ross]

I have this image of a Citibike TTT on the WSBP...

Some friends from the New York Cycle Club did a Citibike rotating paceline for several laps around Central Park last year...just because. Had it listed as an official Club ride and everything.