SRAM Red ETap

[sandyrs]

Well, it's out.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sram-red-etap-ushers-in-wireless-shifting-era/

[oldpotatoe]

Well, it's out.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sram-red-etap-ushers-in-wireless-shifting-era/

Kept the wonky LH lever to higher gear in the rear, RH lever lower gear in the rear, both levers together to move chain up and down...guess the wrench won't be shifting the front der in the stand(I know the answer), or rider shifting the front and rear together...4 batteries.

[R3awak3n]

There is some stuff to like, there is some stuff to dislike. I would not be the one buying this to test for scram till they work out their stuff. The 4 batteries suck and the red bat is way too big. However the shifters look good, not too big since they Use coin batteries. Also cool that they use their own wireless system but they are pretty much using something that has not have had much testing compared to prove, systems like Bluetooth and ant+.

[AJosiahK]

too many batteries

but at least it looks decent

I wouldn't mind testing it out, for free.....

plus....

so convenient if my rear battery dies I can just switch them around???

[R3awak3n]

yeah you can have multiple rear and front derailleur batteries which is kinda cool. You also can keep your bike wherever you keep it and just bring the batteries to the charger.

Price is also pretty decent but weight is not, 300g more than the mechanical. Thats a good amount of weight for the weight weenies (who a lot of times choose sram red since its the lightest groupset)

[guido]

I think they did a great job. Definitely more intuitive than the DI2 and EPS approaches. Lots of reasons not to use an open standard like ant+ or bluetooth for shifting, starting with the 128bit AES encription and the only one controller model. It does use ant+ to talk to gps head units... 87 gram difference on the whole group.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/08/bikes-and-tech/srams-e-tap-shifting-finally-makes-sense_382493

I just want to know when they will have a long cage Red rear derailleur that will work with a 11-42 cassette...

[peanutgallery]

Soooo....you can buy a whole 6800 group for the price of a rear mech? I hope SRAM provides dealers with a larger bin for warranty issues

Build quality and flexy chainrigs should be their focus. Looks like a Shimano cassette still improves shifting performance:) This should be fun to watch

[chiasticon]

Price is also pretty decent but weight is not, 300g more than the mechanical.
from BikeRadar: "The eTap system does not need cabling and housing, of course, which saves 115g. So that gives you 686g for eTap vs 609g for Red 22, taking into account levers, derailleurs and (for the mechanical groupset) cables/housing."

that's 77 grams more, not 300. also, not sure if it includes weight of the blips/blipbox either. and of course, weight of housing can vary by bike size (unless they're just stating the weight of the full housing they include with mechanical, which is likely). still, not awful. what's shimano or campy electronic weight over mechanical variants?

anyway, seems pretty sweet. i like the interchangeable battery option, rather than just entering "i'm dead, you're screwed" mode. i don't mind the coin cell batteries; i mean, how many of us carry an extra for our PM or HRM anyway? and the batteries being small-ish means you can carry an extra if you need to. price doesn't seem awful. adding it up though it seems you can get the system without the blips/blipbox for $1600-ish. which doesn't suck. I'd prefer force level for $1k-ish tho (and hopefully most of the kinks are gone by the time that debuts).

[oldpotatoe]

I think they did a great job. Definitely more intuitive than the DI2 and EPS approaches. Lots of reasons not to use an open standard like ant+ or bluetooth for shifting, starting with the 128bit AES encription and the only one controller model. It does use ant+ to talk to gps head units... 87 gram difference on the whole group.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/08/bikes-and-tech/srams-e-tap-shifting-finally-makes-sense_382493

I just want to know when they will have a long cage Red rear derailleur that will work with a 11-42 cassette...

So how is the shifting 'intuitive'? Just asking, no need to start a 'hate' thread.

[sweet_johnny]

I LOVE the idea of how clean a wireless setup will be, in particular on a retrofit.

The one thing that still isn't sitting well with me is the front der. shifting by pressing both levers. What do you do if you're munching on a snack as the road starts going up and you need to pop it into the little ring?

[oldpotatoe]

I LOVE the idea of how clean a wireless setup will be, in particular on a retrofit.

The one thing that still isn't sitting well with me is the front der. shifting by pressing both levers. What do you do if you're munching on a snack as the road starts going up and you need to pop it into the little ring?


Stick the snack in your mouth or throw it away. Surprised it isn't on a disc brake, 'gravel' bike but this is Europe, where the whole 'gravel' bike gig hasn't really caught on. Wonder if they will have a disc/cross setup this year? It'll do well in the U.S., if last year is any indication, probably non disc etap on sponsored riders in Europe tho.

[sweet_johnny]

Also... my hands spend a vast majority of their time on the transitions from bar to hoods. With eTap, I'll have to move both my hands to make a front shift.

(of course, I'm phrasing this like it's a serious problem I'm going to have to deal with, when in reality I'll be lucky if I get this on a bike 5 years from now.)

[Bruce K]

Intuitive - right hard, left easy, front both

Not so intuitive - right side top = harder & bottom = easier
Left side top = easier & bottom = harder

Shimano & Campy created their shift systems to mimic mechanical to make it easier to switch back and forth with mechanical bikes (their words), SRAM basically started with a clean sheet

BK

[Blown Reek]

So how is the shifting 'intuitive'?

Anyone who has tried to teach a new cyclist how Shimano Di2 or Campagnolo EPS or any mechanical system shifts knows that none of the currently available groups are in any way intuitive.

Apparently, if you're a new rider who is looking to go from zero bike experience to Red in one fell swoop, you won't have to worry about the re-learning the years of Shimano or Campagnolo shift patterns. Then it's intuitive.

[sparky33]

anyway, seems pretty sweet. i like the interchangeable battery option, rather than just entering "i'm dead, you're screwed" mode.

It's a great start for sure.

[soulspinner]

No thanks. Its SRAM. Its electronic. Its expensive. 4 batteries?

[deechee]

Funny how the sites didn't show the pathetic charger which only charges one battery at a time. (45 minutes for a charge.) Its like re-living that Christmas nightmare of getting a new toy and not having enough batteries...

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/-f2QDFULpxHFiKPzeOk89fDzZaB55zLaLV4PxSyd7RQ/mtime:1440103797/sites/default/files/styles/product_small/public/images/products/accessories/charger_v008_newcharger_3q_ps.jpg?itok=Wj6fwd5U

[sandyrs]

Funny how the sites didn't show the pathetic charger which only charges one battery at a time. (45 minutes for a charge.) Its like re-living that Christmas nightmare of getting a new toy and not having enough batteries...

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/-f2QDFULpxHFiKPzeOk89fDzZaB55zLaLV4PxSyd7RQ/mtime:1440103797/sites/default/files/styles/product_small/public/images/products/accessories/charger_v008_newcharger_3q_ps.jpg?itok=Wj6fwd5U

Lol that's ridiculous.

[Wesley37]

I dunno, I would definitely say that having 3 buttons + one combination of buttons is less intuitive and straight forward than 4 buttons for 4 functions.

[soulspinner]

I dunno, I would definitely say that having 3 buttons + one combination of buttons is less intuitive and straight forward than 4 buttons for 4 functions.

agree, I dont see the intuitive part of it either, YMMV...

[oldpotatoe]

Lol that's ridiculous.

Hmmm, wonder how tough it would have been to make that a 2 battery station...pretty hard I guess. And throw away watch batteries for the levers, they must have stock in Energizer or sumthing. Anyway, and flame away, I'm a civilian, another place to slam spam

[kgreene10]

Apparently, if you're a new rider who is looking to go from zero bike experience to Red in one fell swoop, you won't have to worry about the re-learning the years of Shimano or Campagnolo shift patterns. Then it's intuitive.

After a decade on Shimano, my hands are confused by Di2. I don't know why, but front shifting doesn't seem intuitive to me and I keep making mistakes. Hopefully my brain will rewire after a few more rides.

[chiasticon]

Funny how the sites didn't show the pathetic charger which only charges one battery at a time. (45 minutes for a charge.) Its like re-living that Christmas nightmare of getting a new toy and not having enough batteries...
hmmm... wonder if that will be refined before full launch. still, even with one charger you can charge both batteries in the same amount of time it takes to charge the di2 batt. and i'm guessing you'll need to charge the RD battery more often than the FD, so it's probably not all that cumbersome.

[shovelhd]

like the interchangeable battery option, rather than just entering "i'm dead, you're screwed" mode.

Okay, except Di2 doesn't work this way. I can't speak for EPS.

When the Di2 battery starts to go flat, you lose front shifting first. The rear will still shift a number of times until the battery is completely dead. This is a predictable behavior.

What happens with this system? If either d駻ailleur battery dies then that d駻ailleur doesn't shift. That's predictable. What about when one coin battery dies? Do you lose front shifting? Can you only shift the rear up or down depending on which coin battery died? Carrying a spare is fine until one dies in a race.

The 60 hours, is that 60 hours of continuous non stop shifting, or 60 hours of riding and shifting at xxx% duty cycle?

[oldpotatoe]

Okay, except Di2 doesn't work this way. I can't speak for EPS.

When the Di2 battery starts to go flat, you lose front shifting first. The rear will still shift a number of times until the battery is completely dead. This is a predictable behavior.

What happens with this system? If either d駻ailleur battery dies then that d駻ailleur doesn't shift. That's predictable. What about when one coin battery dies? Do you lose front shifting? Can you only shift the rear up or down depending on which coin battery died? Carrying a spare is fine until one dies in a race.

The 60 hours, is that 60 hours of continuous non stop shifting, or 60 hours of riding and shifting at xxx% duty cycle?


Also wonder if it has the ability to 'disconnect' rear der and move manually, ala EPS, probably not. As for one battery crumping, don't know.

[MattTuck]

Haha, remember this thread? (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=128548)


:banana::banana::banana:

With such classic predictions as:

I think it'll all get more internal and integrated; but unlikely it'll go wireless.

Someone will do it just because, but I agree that this seems like a poor application of wireless technology.


Seeing as you have ZERO info on going wireless, and are just guessing that will happen. I don't think I'll take stock in anybody's WAG.

WAG= Wild A$$ Guess!

is there any actual evidence out there that any of the big three are working on wireless systems? I've seen precisely nothing. Show me a snatched photo of a wireless prototype component and then I'm all ears.

[preludervtec]

Was there any mention of how firmware updates will be done? Can you configure the shifting to be reverse of what it is now? It does look great but pricey, they gotta recoup their R&D costs somehow.

[thegunner]

i can't help but feel like they're trying to sell the 1x11 setup a whole hell of a lot more now...

[Dromen]

Rode next to S employee on trainer yesterday with wireless. Time will tell but from little bit is saw...pretty slick.

[makoti]

I LOVE the idea of how clean a wireless setup will be, in particular on a retrofit.


Wireless would be very handy on my coupled bike. Otherwise, not sure I care. Might more if I actually see someone using it.

[Willy]

After a decade on Shimano, my hands are confused by Di2. I don't know why, but front shifting doesn't seem intuitive to me and I keep making mistakes. Hopefully my brain will rewire after a few more rides.

I have been running DI2 for 6 months now and really like it. I too had a problem with my brain and the shifting but solved it by reprogramming the shifts so that the lower levelers (one closest to my hand) was always into an easier gear. You can program it yourself or have your LBS do it - it's real easy.

[jemoryl]

Hmmm, wonder how tough it would have been to make that a 2 battery station...pretty hard I guess. And throw away watch batteries for the levers, they must have stock in Energizer or sumthing. Anyway, and flame away, I'm a civilian, another place to slam spam

The throw-away button batteries in the shifters don't bother me too much. Think of your car's key fob: those things last a long time. You don't need much power to send a signal to the mechanism - those are the batteries that need to have adequate power output to make an actual physical object move. The one battery at a time charger thing seems silly, as does the USB cable (if that is the only power input: what if you are traveling without a place to plug in USB?).

OTOH, I could care less about wireless shifting at this point.

[guido]

Another thoughtful look at eTap...

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Components/SRAM_s_eTap_Wireless_Electronic_5303.html

[hoonjr]

I can't wait for Shimano's version. It's going to blow the doors off this version. Chapeau to SRAM for getting it to the market first but my money is on Shimano's wireless group to be the industry standard.

[FlashUNC]

Who's ready for beta testing?

Because that's basically what this'll be. Can't wait for the "Oh, we forgot to test this in XXXX condition" statement, a la the disc brake fiasco. Cross racers race in cold weather? NO WAY.

Also, if you can't explain Campy shifting to someone, either you or them have serious problems. Its dead simple. You "push" the chain in whatever direction you want with the respective shift levers button. Want the chain to go to easier gears in the rear? Push that lever in the same direction the chain is going to travel up. Same with going down for the town line sprint, use that thumb to push the chain down the cassette. Front shifting? Same thing. Push the chain with the thumb to go small, push the finger in to go big.

How on earth do they expect you to trim the front on this setup?

[EDS]

Who's ready for beta testing?

Because that's basically what this'll be. Can't wait for the "Oh, we forgot to test this in XXXX condition" statement, a la the disc brake fiasco. Cross racers race in cold weather? NO WAY.

Also, if you can't explain Campy shifting to someone, either you or them have serious problems. Its dead simple. You "push" the chain in whatever direction you want with the respective shift levers button. Want the chain to go to easier gears in the rear? Push that lever in the same direction the chain is going to travel up. Same with going down for the town line sprint, use that thumb to push the chain down the cassette. Front shifting? Same thing. Push the chain with the thumb to go small, push the finger in to go big.

How on earth do they expect you to trim the front on this setup?

There is a button on the front derailleur that will shift it without need to touch the levers (same with the rear).

[oldpotatoe]

I can't wait for Shimano's version. It's going to blow the doors off this version. Chapeau to SRAM for getting it to the market first but my money is on Shimano's wireless group to be the industry standard.

I'll take that bet, wireless from shimano.

[false_Aest]

I'm seriously wondering about the possibility of sabotage in the peloton.

[EDS]

I'm seriously wondering about the possibility of sabotage in the peloton.

I wonder who pays hackers more: those trying to hack ATM machines to steal lots of money or limited budget professional cycling teams seeking to hack wireless drivetrains.

I guess Sky, BMC and Tinkoff are the deep pockets in the peloton to watch.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Some seriously grouchy people who haven't experienced the stuff saying it's useless. Withholding all final judgements until I try it. I'm excited to see it for myself

[bcroslin]

Funny how the sites didn't show the pathetic charger which only charges one battery at a time. (45 minutes for a charge.) Its like re-living that Christmas nightmare of getting a new toy and not having enough batteries...

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/-f2QDFULpxHFiKPzeOk89fDzZaB55zLaLV4PxSyd7RQ/mtime:1440103797/sites/default/files/styles/product_small/public/images/products/accessories/charger_v008_newcharger_3q_ps.jpg?itok=Wj6fwd5U

Coming from the world of pro camera batteries a single charger is the norm. There will be chinese knock off chargers on Amazon within 6 months of the group's release so you can buy as many chargers as you need for $9.99 a pop.

I was hoping SRAM would give you options for reprogramming shifting function so you could move front to the left and rear to the right but seems like that might not happen. Wireless makes everything so much easier and cleaner but it's SRAM so I would expect every group sold to be recalled within the first 6 months. I'm really surprised SRAM didn't come up with a 1X group for CX bikes. Seems like a missed opportunity because that's the only way I'd ever even consider another SRAM group.

[kgreene10]

I have been running DI2 for 6 months now and really like it. I too had a problem with my brain and the shifting but solved it by reprogramming the shifts so that the lower levelers (one closest to my hand) was always into an easier gear. You can program it yourself or have your LBS do it - it's real easy.

Good to know! Thanks.

[bcroslin]

How on earth do they expect you to trim the front on this setup?

It's SRAM so the front derailleur is just for show :)

[chiasticon]

I'm really surprised SRAM didn't come up with a 1X group for CX bikes. Seems like a missed opportunity because that's the only way I'd ever even consider another SRAM group.
do you mean a 1X eTap group? because 1X for CX has been out for over a year now. and the road 1X groups are...six months old?

but yeah, a 1X eTap group for CX seems like the logical next step. they could even battle test it in the season that's just starting. all they'd need would be to make the RD a clutch variant and to re-program the shifters to ignore the shift when both are pressed at once. but I'm not surprised they're releasing the road variant first. between road and tri, it's a much bigger market than CX.

[foo_fighter]

Does shimano still disable compatibility with firmware updates? That is one of the reasons I was scared of using di2.

[bcroslin]

do you mean a 1X eTap group? because 1X for CX has been out for over a year now. and the road 1X groups are...six months old?

but yeah, a 1X eTap group for CX seems like the logical next step. they could even battle test it in the season that's just starting. all they'd need would be to make the RD a clutch variant and to re-program the shifters to ignore the shift when both are pressed at once. but I'm not surprised they're releasing the road variant first. between road and tri, it's a much bigger market than CX.

I was referring to eTap 1X

[Lanternrouge]

I'll take that bet, wireless from shimano.

What I've heard is that the Shimano folks are not denying that they are working on it.

[ultraman6970]

Wireless is the next step, knowing shimano probably been already built for a long time. The nice is that there's no damn cables to run no more, bikes pretty much can be built tad faster and cheaper too (sure trek will ask 500 bucks more for having no holes drilled :P)

IMO Sram did a great thing with this group, they arrived late to the electronic fight, but they are the 1st ones with wireless...

1st question, how long the battery last before being changed or charged?

Second question, how long till somebody hack it and makes it work with campagnolo 10 and 11 drivetrains?? with 11 speed should work right out of the box right?

[guido]

Now a video review...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/08/video/video-gcn-rides-the-new-sram-red-etap_382921

At the end there is another video of the setup process...

[gavingould]

at least one employee of sram (and acquaintance of mine) was racing cross with e-tap hydraulic disc last weekend. i didn't get a good look at the other sram guy's setup but would not be surprised if his had it too.
i was asked not to photograph it.
the levers/hoods looked production-ready IMO.

guys around here have been running e-tap stuff in races for a couple years, long long long before it was appearing in road races under continental teams with the fake wiring harnesses.

it would appear they've done their homework, but i've already got di2 with hydraulic disc, i'm set.

[wallymann]

i think eTAP and whatever wireless options come after are the future of e-shifting. when dealing with electrons in a generally RF-interference-free scenario where protection from the elements is essential, wires and plugs and junction boxes are silly and create more problems than they solve.

before this, Di2 and EPS had zero appeal to me...but eTAP has changed my view 180-degrees. given SRAMs reputation of "$h!te" products someone else may perfect wireless, but they have opened the door in a big way. maybe in 5 years campy will release their interpretation and then i might be tempted to make a move.

[thermalattorney]

Owning Di2 proved to me that the future is electronic and I can't wait for no wires. While I'm back on mechanical for now, in a few years I'll be eyeing a used eTap group.

[shovelhd]

The wires don't bother me one little bit. I will not upgrade for wireless alone.

[makoti]

The wires don't bother me one little bit. I will not upgrade for wireless alone.

Again, for my coupled bike, this would be great. Never futz with the gears again. Otherwise, I'm with ya. Don't think I'd pay for it, but I'm not paying to upgrade to electronic, either. And get off my lawn!

[shovelhd]

A coupled bike, I'd definitely go wireless if I could. Just not SRAM.

[phjosephson]

Kudos to SRAM for throwing out the book on shifting (R hand only does rear stuff, L hand does front stuff) and trying to reimagine the UI. The other two will undoubtedly stand on SRAM's shoulders and release something better/smoother/more intuitive, but it seems SRAM is willing to run with the bleeding edge ideas and let the public beta test.

Still waiting for wireless braking, though...

[velomonkey]

Digital Cameras make a shutter/mirror sliding sound - even your iPhone does - even though there are no shutters in digital cameras.

Tesla owners complained that when they took their foot off the brake the car didn't roll forward before the put their foot on the gas (as all automatics do) - tesla upgraded their cars to have this feature.

My point is, old habits die hard.

Honestly, it's cool now that I can rock my EPS version 1 and be considered retro.

[makoti]

A coupled bike, I'd definitely go wireless if I could. Just not SRAM.

Well, yeah. That goes without saying. ;)

[rain dogs]

IMO Sram did a great thing with this group, they arrived late to the electronic fight, but they are the 1st ones with wireless...

I don't disagree that wireless is the future of e-shifting from all three, but I'm always perplexed by the "1st to market" statements in the bike industry.

Sure, with software, pharma etc 1st to market may be huge... but bike tech?

Of all the cyclists on the planet how many buy the Red/DuraAce/Record/SuperRecord level? 1%? And how many of those are buying new electronic? 10% And how many of those will buy SRAM? 15%?

And finally, how many of those extremely few will buy SRAM e-tap specifically because of some appreciation of being first to market? 40%?

So, being first to market just won SRAM Doug and a few of his buddies! :hello:

There will be few people in the market for EPS who are now going to buy SRAM because it's novel. Very few.

[rain dogs]

I question the idea that shifting is more intuitive. Think of when you've had to explain mechanical shifting to a newcomer. Both derailleurs. "The big push levers make the chain go up!" "Left -front, right-back"

Admittedly, it's not super easy, but people figure it out pretty quick...

So, now, you have left-easy and right hard... ok, THAT does sound more intuitive... but now try and explain the front derailleur. The whole thing is confusing. It's easy for people who already understand it, but those people aren't thinking from the perspective of those who don't understand it.

Left button is easy, correct? Right is hard? correct? But if I press both is goes easier? and then times I press both it goes harder? What gives?

You always see newbies cross chaining because it's complicated to think of two derailleurs influncing shifting in "4D" - 1 easier, easier, 2. harder, harder, 3. easier,harder, 4, harder, easier.

This will only make that more confusing... but eventually people learn. I just doubt this is so much more intuitive.

Lastly, then my essay concludes, to gain this debateble "intuitive use" you've lost all advanced use - shifting front and rear simultaneously so you can get from the big ring to the small with virtually no change in foot speed/cadence - A lifetime of that alone is worth any extra minutes/hours it takes to wrap you mind around the mind-bender that is 4 shifting 'buttons'

That's the first thing I want to try on SRAM e-tap. Drop to the small ring while trying to go down from 19 to 14 as simultaneously as possible. I can do it in about .3 seconds on mechanical 10-speed Record flawlessly, every. single. time.

[oldpotatoe]

A coupled bike, I'd definitely go wireless if I could. Just not SRAM.

:D:o;):rolleyes::banana::hello:

'Intuitive shifting'??? Huh? like disc brakes, I'm glad I don't have to
-Sell it
-work on it
-use it

thanks. I'm out.

[oldpotatoe]

Digital Cameras make a shutter/mirror sliding sound - even your iPhone does - even though there are no shutters in digital cameras.

Tesla owners complained that when they took their foot off the brake the car didn't roll forward before the put their foot on the gas (as all automatics do) - tesla upgraded their cars to have this feature.

My point is, old habits die hard.

Honestly, it's cool now that I can rock my EPS version 1 and be considered retro.

Yep, I like my little 'Fiat' behind my water bottle..people can see how cool I am.

[Mark McM]

IMO Sram did a great thing with this group, they arrived late to the electronic fight, but they are the 1st ones with wireless...

Not quite. The Mavic Zap system has them beat by over a decade (although both of Mavic's electronic systems, Mektronic and Zap, were rear derailleur only).

[Mark McM]

I question the idea that shifting is more intuitive. Think of when you've had to explain mechanical shifting to a newcomer. Both derailleurs. "The big push levers make the chain go up!" "Left -front, right-back"

Admittedly, it's not super easy, but people figure it out pretty quick...

So, now, you have left-easy and right hard... ok, THAT does sound more intuitive... but now try and explain the front derailleur. The whole thing is confusing. It's easy for people who already understand it, but those people aren't thinking from the perspective of those who don't understand it.

Left button is easy, correct? Right is hard? correct? But if I press both is goes easier? and then times I press both it goes harder? What gives?

You always see newbies cross chaining because it's complicated to think of two derailleurs influncing shifting in "4D" - 1 easier, easier, 2. harder, harder, 3. easier,harder, 4, harder, easier.

This will only make that more confusing... but eventually people learn. I just doubt this is so much more intuitive.

Lastly, then my essay concludes, to gain this debateble "intuitive use" you've lost all advanced use - shifting front and rear simultaneously so you can get from the big ring to the small with virtually no change in foot speed/cadence - A lifetime of that alone is worth any extra minutes/hours it takes to wrap you mind around the mind-bender that is 4 shifting 'buttons'

That's the first thing I want to try on SRAM e-tap. Drop to the small ring while trying to go down from 19 to 14 as simultaneously as possible. I can do it in about .3 seconds on mechanical 10-speed Record flawlessly, every. single. time.

+1 on the above. Using two different shifter levers for "harder" and "easier" isn't much more intuitive than a single lever that moves in two directions. But, for a single derailleur system it would be perfectly fine. However, I think the ETap system makes front shifting less intuitive. Newbies have a hard enough time with the concept of shifting with two different derailleurs. But at least current systems stick with the concept of "push this button/lever to make it easier, and the other button/lever to make it harder".

For advanced riders, not only does ETap remove the ability to shift both derailleurs simultaneously, but now it requires everyone (newbies and experienced riders alike) to keep looking down at the crank to verify which chainring they are in, to prevent accidently shifting the derailleur in the wrong direction.

Also, I'm wondering how ETap would handle a triple chainring crank? All previous front shifting control systems (mechanical and electronic) allowed easy adaptation from 2 to 3 chainrings . Maybe you have to change components, but at least the control scheme worked the same (i.e, push one button/lever to move the derailleur one way, push the other button/lever the other way to make the derailleur move the other way). With an ETap triple crank system, do you have to cycle the front derailleur all the way to the end in one direction before you can reverse the direction of the derailleur movement?

[makoti]

not only does ETap remove the ability to shift both derailleurs simultaneously,

I'd really miss being able to double shift quickly