What kind of rider chooses Gunnar?

[Plavcan]

What kind of rider chooses Waterford?

[bikinchris]

In my shop, the riders who go for Waterford remember Schwinn and want a lugged frame. Never had one disappointed.
Gunnar would be riders as above, who want to spend less. Both are really great riding bikes.

[kramnnim]

One with money, one without.

[Louis]

I chose a Waterford 2200 over the Serotta CSi because I liked the polished stainless steel lugs. I don't know if Gunnar has that option or not.

[echelon_john]

The guy upgrading from Surly picks Gunnar.
The guy upgrading from Soma picks Waterford.

[Ralph]

Some one smart with their money. Warren Buffet would ride a Gunnar (if he rode). Someone not looking to impress you.

[msl819]

I had a Gunnar Crosshairs that was a great unassuming bike. Wish I still had it.

[Gummee]

I had a Gunnar Crosshairs that was a great unassuming bike. Wish I still had it.

I've had my Crosshairs since '05. Its one of those 'out of my cold, dead hands' bikes. Pretty much everything else in the garage is in a state of flux

M

[Louis]

Forget about this impressing others vs not showing-off.

Everyone knows that the very best part about Gunnar bikes was Gunnar (RIP):

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Gunnar-the-dog.jpg

[DHallerman]

Which is why my red Gunnar is named "Cliff."

Dave, who names all his bikes directly or indirectly based on their color and this one was named after the combination of a children's book and that fine Labrador

Forget about this impressing others vs not showing-off.

Everyone knows that the very best part about Gunnar bikes was Gunnar (RIP):

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Gunnar-the-dog.jpg

[FlashUNC]

People who like bikes made by the likes of the Schwinn family? People who like good steel bikes?

Not sure what the question is angling for.

[jtakeda]

People who like bikes made by the likes of the Schwinn family? People who like good steel bikes?

Not sure what the question is angling for.

Seems like Gunnar/Waterford hired a pr guy and he's searching forums to get a sense of brand identity.

[FlashUNC]

Seems like Gunnar/Waterford hired a pr guy and he's searching forums to get a sense of brand identity.

As a PR guy, I can say there's more subtle ways to go about it....

[JAGI410]

Gunnar is for the guy/gal that doesn't care about lugs or custom geometry, but wants a nice quality, American made, steel frame in a color of their choosing.

Waterford is for the more picky rider that wants to choose every little detail, but doesn't want to wait a year for a boutique framebuilder.

[Javaman]

One with money, one without.

Yep. I ride a Gunnar Roadie:) Bought used for less money than a used Waterford would cost but still rides great. Oh and still made in America of the US.

[Plavcan]

As a PR guy, I can say there's more subtle ways to go about it....

Nothing so sinister. Just a guy trying choose between at a Gunnar and a Waterford.

[Louis]

Nothing so sinister. Just a guy trying choose between at a Gunnar and a Waterford.

What do you want / expect from the frame?

[Louis]

I chose Waterford in part because of this picture:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17646&stc=1

[DHallerman]

I chose Waterford in part because of this picture:



http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17646&stc=1


Bike porn of the highest order!

[msl819]

I've had my Crosshairs since '05. Its one of those 'out of my cold, dead hands' bikes. Pretty much everything else in the garage is in a state of flux

M

Yep... One of the few I regret selling. Ok... One of only two out of a couple dozen.

[FlashUNC]

Nothing so sinister. Just a guy trying choose between at a Gunnar and a Waterford.

Hard to go wrong with either one. I'd bet if you have some serious or weird fit issue a Gunnar will be a better option as you have a wider geo range with tig over lug.

But the answer really is aesthetic.

Never heard a bad thing about either line.

[CMiller]

Both: Someone who appreciates made in the USA Steel.

Gunnar: TIG
Waterford: Lugs/Fillet

It really comes down to that.

You can get as fancy paint as you want on the Gunnar, and you can get custom geometry on it too. They'd be painted, designed, and built by the same good people at the same historic shop.

Why don't you call them up, let them know what you want in a bike, give them a few measurements, and see what they say? They'll all ride great.

[Duende]

I chose Waterford because I wanted to try out the S3 tubing. Otherwise I would have gone for a roadie as I was looking for a modern replacement of my slx 80's paramount.

Now a days I think I'd be braver and take the plunge on something more pricey like a peg, or go ti or perhaps carbon.

Nothing wrong at all with my r33. Just am interested to try out other rides too... Cost permitting of course.

[oldpotatoe]

What kind of rider chooses Waterford?

Those that want a well made steel frameset of the type they want, well made by the same people that make Waterfords, out of the same tubing Waterfords are made, in Waterford Wisconsin, choose Gunnar. Not many US made frames out there do it all around better than Gunnar. If they want OS tubing, or lugs, and made from the ground up Custom...then Waterford altho you can get a custom Gunnar with a not standard paint color on a Gunnar but the $ is about what a Waterford is.

[Tim Porter]

I chose Waterford because they cut a deal with the owners of the Schwinn Paramount trademarks to build the 75th anniversary Paramount. Fantastic bike.

http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a583/porterphoto1/IMG_4667_zps970d2ce3.jpg

[digiTED]

Both: Someone who appreciates made in the USA Steel.

:beer:

For me,

Gunnar: high-end performance that's lockable in the city. Great bikes for those who want a sophisticated feel on their daily commute.

Waterford: high-end performance with the subjective/romantic appeal of refined aesthetics to go with the killer feel.

I'm about 16 years into my Gunnar, an old Street Dog (canti studs, oddly steep front end). Just a great bike.

[soulspinner]

Does Waterford offer fillet frames? Did not see that option currently on their price list...

[54ny77]

Why, the Gunnar from another mother, of course.

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/2015/media/203862/_original/1437695392/1035x1541-GettyImages-166303544.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

Both: Someone who appreciates made in the USA Steel.

Gunnar: TIG
Waterford: Lugs/Fillet

It really comes down to that.

You can get as fancy paint as you want on the Gunnar, and you can get custom geometry on it too. They'd be painted, designed, and built by the same good people at the same historic shop.

Why don't you call them up, let them know what you want in a bike, give them a few measurements, and see what they say? They'll all ride great.

Waterfords are tigged welded, also lugged, -22 model. All Waterfords are custom, Gunnar's are stock but custom available.

[na3s]

I loved the Gunnar I had a few yrs ago

[harrison]

give us some more details!

[weisan]

I chose Waterford in part because of this picture:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=17646&stc=1

whhhhat?? you got a waterford?! Please...please, I beg you..tell me it has replaced the nashbar special. :D

[alessandro]

What kind of rider chooses Waterford?

I chose Waterford in part because of this picture:

Apparently, the sort of rider who just likes to look at the pictures. :D;):beer:
http://www.thatericalper.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/What-Sort-of-Man-Reads-Playboy-5.jpg

[soulspinner]

Waterfords are tigged welded, also lugged, -22 model. All Waterfords are custom, Gunnar's are stock but custom available.

Are they currently doing fillet frames?

[oldpotatoe]

Are they currently doing fillet frames?

Not AFAIK..not sure they ever did. When I first started selling them in the 90s, lugged only. Later tig welded, now primarily tig welded but also custom lugged, -22 series but all the others are tig welded.

[Martygarrison]

I have a Waterford T-14 light touring bike (we do a lot of credit card touring). I decided to get my wife a similar bike and was going to get a Gunner however the price difference between a custom Gunner and a Waterford frame is now only around $500. I decided for the little difference, and a bike she will likely keep forever to shell a little more cash.

[erslah]

Anyone ever had a Gunnar repainted by Waterford? My second-hand Crosshairs is pretty beat up, but I'm not sure I can justify the $400 charge. Local outfits can do it for considerably less, but undoubtedly not as well.

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/pricing/

[dave thompson]

It's been my experience that you absolutely get what you pay for when having a bike painted.

[RudAwkning]

What kind of rider chooses Waterford?

If you're looking for a straight-up, well made tig welded bike and fit their Gunnar geometry, it's not worth going to a 14 series Waterford unless you want custom paint. They're almost the same bike. If you need full custom, want lugged (22 series), stainless lugs/tubes, or their superlight S3 tigged frame (33 series) and/or want a custom finish then go Waterford.

Gunnars are a great value. And even though they're stock geometry, they're still built to order so there is a lead time. Nothing is "off the peg" from Waterford. You can customize a Gunnar, but the price starts creeping into 14 series territory pretty quickly.

[RudAwkning]

Not AFAIK..not sure they ever did. When I first started selling them in the 90s, lugged only. Later tig welded, now primarily tig welded but also custom lugged, -22 series but all the others are tig welded.

We've had them done on request. Our most recent was a fillet brazed R-33. There was an upcharge of course.

[oldpotatoe]

Anyone ever had a Gunnar repainted by Waterford? My second-hand Crosshairs is pretty beat up, but I'm not sure I can justify the $400 charge. Local outfits can do it for considerably less, but undoubtedly not as well.

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/pricing/

I had 2 Merckx's painted by them and they did a really excellent job..Molteni and red...$400 for a respray is really a great deal.

[erslah]

I had 2 Merckx's painted by them and they did a really excellent job..Molteni and red...$400 for a respray is really a great deal.


Interesting -- you went to them for non-Gunnar bikes. Did they do the decals and other elements? My wife's Zurich could use some work, now that I think of it ....

[oldpotatoe]

Interesting -- you went to them for non-Gunnar bikes. Did they do the decals and other elements? My wife's Zurich could use some work, now that I think of it ....

I supplied the decals.

[IFRider]

Anyone ever had a Gunnar repainted by Waterford? My second-hand Crosshairs is pretty beat up, but I'm not sure I can justify the $400 charge. Local outfits can do it for considerably less, but undoubtedly not as well.

http://gunnarbikes.com/site/bikes/pricing/

It is without a doubt, a remarkable paint job. Candy Apple red with silver team decals. You can barely feel the decals under the clear coat. I sent it in for repaint during the slow season and had then spread the rear to 130mm. As it turned out the original builder was still there and did the work and alignment. The paint has held up well over the years.

I plan on sending my Waterford RS-22 in at some point for a fresh-n-up color change ...

Seems like a good deal ...

Warren

[erslah]

It is without a doubt, a remarkable paint job. Candy Apple red with silver team decals.


Got a pic?

[JeffS]

Waterford - the buyer who can excuse incompetent website design
Gunnar - the buyer who can not


[edit] I apologize. It's been a while since I looked. It seems that someone from Waterford has gotten a hold of the Gunnar site recently and drug it backwards 15 years or so.


It really is a shame. One barely competent digital media person would have paid for themselves many times over.

[erslah]

My thoughts as well. My assumption is they're more interested in building great bikes than decent websites, or their devoted followers don't need high-res close-ups of lugs to decide against buying a Trek instead. But it would be nice if we could at least read the geometry chart on small screens, for example, without having rotating images overlap the text.

I wonder if they'd give me a discount if I offered my services 😁

[rphetteplace]

better question is who rides Waterfords?

Answer people that don't know about Dave Wages!

[oldpotatoe]

better question is who rides Waterfords?

Answer people that don't know about Dave Wages!

I met Dave when visiting Richard at Waterford and his frames are no doubt beautiful but also about $1000 more..for a lugged steel frame and fork. So yes, there are those who wish to deal with Dave and those who wish to deal with a bike shop and Richard Schwinn, for their custom steel frame.