new specialized alloy frame

[bthornt]

interesting read, claimed to be nearly as stiff as carbon

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/specialized-allez-sprint-drops-hammer-on-carbon/

[paredown]

I see things like this, and I'm glad that engineers keep thinking. That BB shell is a lovely piece of design.

Of course, retro-grouch that I am, I wish it were threaded...

[stephenmarklay]

Interesting. That no FD is going to be a deal killer for most. I ride a 2015 Allez and have nothing but good things to say about it. I do have a big kick and can get FD rub from the BB but aside from a little noise it does not bother me.

Overall I really like the bike.

[Black Dog]

A guy in my club has one (2015 smart weld) and he is a big and strong rider and loves it. Says it is as stiff as his BMC carbon wonder bike.

[Caballero]

Should be easy enough to make up a custom al or carbon f mech clamp

[bcroslin]

I never realized stiffness was an issue with modern aluminum race bikes. My old CAAD10 felt just as stiff if not a little stiffer than my EVO. This new specialized is cool but it's not revolutionary by any means.

Furthermore, no braze on FD makes me think that's an engineering issue being covered up by a marketing pitch: FD?! Who needs'em?! You're fast right? Only sissies need a FD! Oh wait, the engineers sorted out the FD? For 2017 you get a FD! It's a climbing machine! Another Specialized INNOVATION!

[thirdgenbird]

I would be interested if it had a front derailleur mount. This frame, praxis cranks, ee brakes, chorus 11 and some Thomson bits.

[berserk87]

Yes, I agree - no front derailleur is a bummer. I get their rationale...sort of.

Most folks that have a dedicated crit bike also ride it at other times - like group rides and such, and also for road races. On my income, I could not justify having a bike ridden only for crits and nothing else.

Also wondered about what stiffness was alleged to be lacking with aluminum frames. I rode mostly Cannondales when I raced. When stepping on the gas on a C-dale, it felt like running barefoot over concrete. I did not notice any issues with power transfer, and I am a larger dude.

But knowing Specialized and their marketing monster, I would bet that this bike is 13% faster than last year's Smartweld.

[Lionel]

Anyone who thinks that a metal frame cannot be made as stiff as a carbon one needs to ride a Pegoretti Marcelo

[rzthomas]

Y'all need to read the article!

There will be models with front derailleur capabilities coming soon:

Specialized is already hedging its bets. Front derailleur-compatible Allez Smartweld frames (that are otherwise identical save for the multiple chainring capability) will be released in December, just three months after the release of the 1x-specific 'X1' models in September

[merckx]

The hell-bent mission to create uber stiff framesets has also created an emerging market for uber chubby tires. Is this an accident?

[LegendRider]

Y'all need to read the article!

There will be models with front derailleur capabilities coming soon:

Specialized is already hedging its bets. Front derailleur-compatible Allez Smartweld frames (that are otherwise identical save for the multiple chainring capability) will be released in December, just three months after the release of the 1x-specific 'X1' models in September

Assuming the frame will be $900, it will make a great race bike with Ultegra 11sp and decent wheels.

[FlashUNC]

I love how they're trying to push a cost-saving welding technique as some novel revolution that makes for "stiffer" frames.

My Lobster is plenty stiff with a threaded BB and big, honkin 7005 chainstays.

[ik2280]

Yawn. I can't get excited about this. Don't like how it looks, doubt you'll perform any better on this than you would on an older Allez (or a CAAD10). '

Here's what an aluminum race bike should look like:

[kramnnim]

I wonder if SRAM paid them to release the 1X versions first.

[velomonkey]

1X for road bikes most be stopped, now!!!!!!

Press BBs are one thing, 1x is another. 1X must be placed in storage along with elevated stays.

[azrider]

This new specialized is cool but it's not revolutionary by any means.


No no.....not revolutionary......its "GROUND BREAKING" !!!

Oy.....

[ceolwulf]

1X for road bikes most be stopped, now!!!!!!



Press BBs are one thing, 1x is another. 1X must be placed in storage along with elevated stays.


Two shall be the number of the chainrings, and the number of the chainrings shall be two. Three shalt thou not install, neither install thou one, excepting that thou then proceed to two.

[nooneline]

I've been racing an Allez E5 Smartweld for several years and I really like it. I forget the specifics but I think that Spec's parent company is deep in aluminum; it's cool that they're doing some new stuff.

Smartweld may at its core be a cost-savings approach, but cost-savings also can mean quality-improving (for the same price). It's pretty cool that they're able re-engineer headtubes and BB shells while making them easier to weld.

I also really like that they're working on making better affordable bikes - working-class race machines - in addition to the whole making-a-better-$10,000-bike thing.

I don't care much for road one-by, so it's good that these will be coming out with a FD mount in a bit.

I'm not gonna ditch my Allez for one, but, whatev. This AluVenge is neat.

[Shortsocks]

I'm sorry.

But Specialized designed a frame that JUST costs $900 to buy, then they may be thinking about a demographic that is money conscious, then if that demographic WAS particular to how they spend the cash then I would think that they WOULD want a FD. People I know I race with and don't think twice how much they spend on Rigs, wouldn't bat an eye at that bike.

I used to race on a Caad 9,10, and I loved it because it was a race day bike and a training bike. BUT a bike I could lay down and not blink an eye at it. Did I buy it because it was cheap, yes! And racing is expensive. Specialized is being silly.

Do Specialized customers NOT look at any other bike when purchasing? Because it seems to me that there are many stiff alloy bikes with a FD on the market.

This is just another drop for me in the list of reasons why I can't stand that company. Bugs me. Really bugs me.

[Mark McM]

I think we have to read between the lines on some of their specs and rationale.

"Ultimate weight wasn't the criteria for this," said Specialized senior advanced R&D engineer Chuck Teixeira, an industry veteran with more than three decades of experience under his belt, much of which was spent at Easton. "This is more of a crit bike so we wanted really good stiffness. That comes at the expense of a little extra weight. We have lots of opportunity to make it lighter. In many of the pedaling tests, it's stiffer than the Tarmac."

In other words, the real primary criteria was low cost. Aluminum is the least expensive of the common frame materials. Producing the "lugs" by stamping and joining to clamshell halves, and moving the welds away from the tight confines of the joints, makes it much quicker and easier to make the frame, using more automated processes and less hand working.

As part of that rather narrowly focused design goal, Specialized is launching the new Allez Sprint in just two complete builds and one frameset to start none of which have provision for a front derailleur. By Specialized's reasoning, bikes specifically used for criterium racing or fast lunch rides simply don't need that wide a gearing range, and the bare seat tube that results looks sleeker and cleaner.

This argument doesn't fly. The frame has two water bottle mounts, which you also don't need for criterium racing or fast lunch rides. The omission of the front derailleur was probably also done for cost savings.



Interestingly, the Specialized Smartweld construction technology has many similarities to the Electro-Forged construction technology used in the old Schwinn Varsity (also used for cost automation and cost reduction), except using aluminum instead of steel:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html

[velomonkey]

This is the culmination of American mass-produced and race-ready aluminum racing bikes.

This bike was an absolute incredible instrument for any racer. These days will never return, but man, this bike rocked. It won the Giro and was the perfect frame for any working racer. You could spend more . . . . but this, this was THE frame.

[nooneline]

I'm sorry.

But Specialized designed a frame that JUST costs $900 to buy, then they may be thinking about a demographic that is money conscious, then if that demographic WAS particular to how they spend the cash then I would think that they WOULD want a FD. People I know I race with and don't think twice how much they spend on Rigs, wouldn't bat an eye at that bike.

I used to race on a Caad 9,10, and I loved it because it was a race day bike and a training bike. BUT a bike I could lay down and not blink an eye at it. Did I buy it because it was cheap, yes! And racing is expensive. Specialized is being silly.

Do Specialized customers NOT look at any other bike when purchasing? Because it seems to me that there are many stiff alloy bikes with a FD on the market.

This is just another drop for me in the list of reasons why I can't stand that company. Bugs me. Really bugs me.

They're selling it with a FD mount in like three months. Did you read neither the article nor the comments in this thread?

[Climb01742]

This is the culmination of American mass-produced and race-ready aluminum racing bikes.

This bike was an absolute incredible instrument for any racer. These days will never return, but man, this bike rocked. It won the Giro and was the perfect frame for any working racer. You could spend more . . . . but this, this was THE frame.

And unpainted was/is how CAADs look best.

[Elefantino]

No no.....not revolutionary......its "GROUND BREAKING" !!!

Please cease and desist from using the term "ground breaking®" as it is a registered trademark of Asshat Inc.

[Shortsocks]

They're selling it with a FD mount in like three months. Did you read neither the article nor the comments in this thread?

Must of Missed it, I was scanning over this while having a cup of joe. Ill go back and read it over at lunch. :confused:

[FlashUNC]

Must of Missed it, I was scanning over this while having a cup of joe. Ill go back and read it over at lunch. :confused:

FD-capable models will be out in December.

For a crit racer, hard to argue the logic of a big-ring only ride. Not sure why you'd need a small ring for your typical Saturday morning office park crit.

[velomonkey]

This is just another drop for me in the list of reasons why I can't stand that company. Bugs me. Really bugs me.

FD or not, I'm totally with you.

I really want to like specialized. My first big bike purchased a stump jumper with XT.

I just can't like specialized after getting a serving of their marketing tripe.

[velomonkey]

FD-capable models will be out in December.

For a crit racer, hard to argue the logic of a big-ring only ride. Not sure why you'd need a small ring for your typical Saturday morning office park crit.

Come on, really? The reason CAAD's work is they are stiff, not too much money (well by comparison), they race well AND (this is in no way a small item) it's the bike you train on (i.e., the majority of any given weekly miles). If you're some 22 year old college kid at CAT 2 trying to get to CAT 1 and being a waiter on the side you gonna make your only bike a Big Cookie only cause a crit is big ring racing?

If some 35 year old master racer was like "this is my crit bike" - then whatever, sure, but myself: I never want to be part of that group.

[FlashUNC]

Come on, really? The reason CAAD's work is they are stiff, not too much money (well by comparison), they race well AND (this is in no way a small item) it's the bike you train on (i.e., the majority of any given weekly miles). If you're some 22 year old college kid at CAT 2 trying to get to CAT 1 and being a waiter on the side you gonna make your only bike a Big Cookie only cause a crit is big ring racing?

If some 35 year old master racer was like "this is my crit bike" - then whatever, sure, but myself: I never want to be part of that group.

Yeah, really. Spec is covering their bases here. The Master 35+ guy will probably go with the 1x as its his race bike that he can put into the ditch and walk away not caring about what it'll cost to replace. The 22 year old can get the FD version so he or she has the do-it-all training/race bike.

My point is if you're using it just as a crit bike, yeah, a small ring is superfluous save for maybe a warm-up or cool-down lap.

I get you don't like Mike and the team down in Morgan Hill. I'm not a huge fan either. But there's some logic behind this thing.

Just wait till their inevitable 1x-only TT bikes.

[ginsued]

There are plenty of crits in NorCal that are 2 bottle crits. Last week we were racing I'm 100+ degree weather.

I think we have to read between the lines on some of their specs and rationale.



In other words, the real primary criteria was low cost. Aluminum is the least expensive of the common frame materials. Producing the "lugs" by stamping and joining to clamshell halves, and moving the welds away from the tight confines of the joints, makes it much quicker and easier to make the frame, using more automated processes and less hand working.



This argument doesn't fly. The frame has two water bottle mounts, which you also don't need for criterium racing or fast lunch rides. The omission of the front derailleur was probably also done for cost savings.



Interestingly, the Specialized Smartweld construction technology has many similarities to the Electro-Forged construction technology used in the old Schwinn Varsity (also used for cost automation and cost reduction), except using aluminum instead of steel:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html

[keevon]

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2015/07/23/1437687273477-xsutay7anw1z-960-540.jpg

If this was branded "Cannondale", I think the tone of this thread would be completely different.

[bcroslin]

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2015/07/23/1437687273477-xsutay7anw1z-960-540.jpg

If this was branded "Cannondale", I think the tone of this thread would be completely different.

If it were branded Cannondale there would be howls from us C-dale riders screaming about how it looks like a stupid Venge!

[velomonkey]

If it were branded Cannondale there would be howls from us C-dale riders screaming about how it looks like a stupid Venge!

That, plus the lack of a FD and, the junctions would be met with trepidation.

[azrider]

If it were branded Cannondale there would be howls from us C-dale riders screaming about how it looks like a stupid Venge!

+1000

Semi sloping top tube? (more like bowed TT)
Aero seat post?
Semi aero DT?
Ugly azz rear triangle?

Blech...

[zoose]

While not the most attractive thing in the world, I imagine they will sell a lot of these.

[eippo1]

i can see the derailleur version doing fine, but I can't see a single shop committing to any inventory of the 1x road thing. That's just asking to sit on the sales floor for 2 years and get sold at a deep discount.

Just like the Gary Fisher Rig and the Trek 69.

[Bostic]

I was looking over the Specialized website last night after the updates. A couple of the Shimano equipped Roubaix bikes once again have threaded bottom brackets instead of OSBB for everything across the board. I also noticed the Chicane saddles are all in the the Outlet section. I guess they didn't sell too well.

I like the look of the new Allez but definitely would wait to get a version with a front derailleur mount. A 50x32 low still wouldn't be practical in the Bay Area (I don't race).

[velomonkey]

That one is carbon, ours is made out of aluminum and it also goes to 11 . . . . no similarity whatsoever.

[Russian bear]

Those welds are kind of ugly, could they have not sanded them down a bit flatter? Maybe it'll be better in anodized black.

[JimmyTango]

Did anyone else notice that the geo is slightly longer in the TT than the Tarmacs in the same sizes? I like the look of this new geometry and hope that is holds through to the versions with the fd clamps.

[soulspinner]

Anyone who thinks that a metal frame cannot be made as stiff as a carbon one needs to ride a Pegoretti Marcelo

Or my violet 80s dale with Suntour superb and a ride that rattled your kidney
stones out...

[Gummee]

Or my violet 80s dale with Suntour superb and a ride that rattled your kidney
stones out...

My 87 Criterium frame turned me off of C-dales for many many years

M

[rnhood]

For just a little more money one can get the Cevelo S2. Makes this aluminum bike a hard call, unless one has a fetish for aluminum. No doubt its superbly crafted, and I applaud Specialized for introducing news bikes and biking stuff but, I think this one will be a hard sell. Aluminum frames are inexpensive and should be priced that way. Anyway, I could be wrong. I hope its successful but have my doubts.

[berserk87]

The hell-bent mission to create uber stiff framesets has also created an emerging market for uber chubby tires. Is this an accident?

That's a good point.

When speaking of frame stiffness, I refer to lack of lateral bottom-bracket flex, and secondarily, lack of lateral front-end flex.

Vertical flex was not an issue that concerned me when choosing a race-rig. Perhaps a frame that met the above-referenced criteria was inevitably vertically stiff as a result?

[Mark McM]

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.imdserve.com/images/news/2015/07/23/1437687273477-xsutay7anw1z-960-540.jpg

If this was branded "Cannondale", I think the tone of this thread would be completely different.

Looking at the photos again, I think we can guess that the reason for no front derailleur is they haven't figured out how to reliably mount a derailleur tab (which would have to be very close to the seat tube lower weld). Note that there also aren't any top tube brake cable stops (one photo shows a brake cable housing zip-tied to the side of the top tube), nor are there any down tube cable stops (but to make up for this, there are two cable stops on the chainstay ... huh?).

[jmoore]

Two shall be the number of the chainrings, and the number of the chainrings shall be two. Three shalt thou not install, neither install thou one, excepting that thou then proceed to two.

^ winner

[spacemen3]

A single chainring? I hope I don't get sued. ;) The polished frame looks cool, but why ignore cable routing?

[sandyrs]

I'm no fan of Specialized, but with a front derailleur this would be a very tempting buy. I love no-frills alloy road bikes.

Good thing there are plenty of other brands to choose from!

[rzthomas]

Pretty sure rear brake cable routing will be just like it is on the current Allez, i.e. internal.

[FlashUNC]

Looking at the photos again, I think we can guess that the reason for no front derailleur is they haven't figured out how to reliably mount a derailleur tab (which would have to be very close to the seat tube lower weld). Note that there also aren't any top tube brake cable stops (one photo shows a brake cable housing zip-tied to the side of the top tube), nor are there any down tube cable stops (but to make up for this, there are two cable stops on the chainstay ... huh?).

I'm no fan of Specialized, but with a front derailleur this would be a very tempting buy. I love no-frills alloy road bikes.

Good thing there are plenty of other brands to choose from!

As the article notes, one with an FD will available in December.

[sandyrs]

As the article notes, one with an FD will available in December.

Oh I know- I meant that I would be tempted to get that version if there weren't so many other great alloy race bikes out there, including my own Merckx Team SC.

[jonnyBgood]

I guarantee you .....that Specialized WILL NOT be the only brand to offer up 1X road bikes next year.

It's all the talk.

Just like 1X in Mountain Bikes was a couple years ago. Sram started that whole thing so hey..... let's do the same to road bikes and we can bring out another grouppo or two or three

[sandyrs]

I guarantee you .....that Specialized WILL NOT be the only brand to offer up 1X road bikes next year.

It's all the talk.

Just like 1X in Mountain Bikes was a couple years ago. Sram started that whole thing so hey..... let's do the same to road bikes and we can bring out another grouppo or two or three

I'll definitely get 1x for road when they come out with an 11-36 15 speed cassette.

[false_Aest]

1X for road bikes most be stopped, now!!!!!!

Press BBs are one thing, 1x is another. 1X must be placed in storage along with elevated stays.


Brah,

Seriously?


When was the last time you switched gears up front in a crit or at the Thursday Night Worlds?

[false_Aest]

A single chainring? I hope I don't get sued. ;) The polished frame looks cool, but why ignore cable routing?


Brah, that ···· is TIGHT!

[gavingould]

this would be a decent base for a SS commuter or if there were a split point in the dropout or seatstay, belt drive.
i'd love to have a clone of my Gaulzetti, but with fender/light rack mounts that i could set up as a commuter. admittedly that would kind of ruin the ethos.

1x is kind of a fad IMO, i don't know that i see it being substantial overall for road, but the niches of flat crits and TT/tri may accept it for gram shaving and people who don't know how to shift or adjust their derailleurs.

[oldpotatoe]

FD-capable models will be out in December.

For a crit racer, hard to argue the logic of a big-ring only ride. Not sure why you'd need a small ring for your typical Saturday morning office park crit.

Probably don't. Nor do you need one when you train, every other than race day, on that 4 corner, .9 mile office park training course. BUT, 'may' want one if you ride this thing elsewhere.

No FD is dumb. 'Maybe' in Florida or the Netherlands otherwise, dum, IMHO.

[oldpotatoe]

Looking at the photos again, I think we can guess that the reason for no front derailleur is they haven't figured out how to reliably mount a derailleur tab (which would have to be very close to the seat tube lower weld). Note that there also aren't any top tube brake cable stops (one photo shows a brake cable housing zip-tied to the side of the top tube), nor are there any down tube cable stops (but to make up for this, there are two cable stops on the chainstay ... huh?).

Front brake only..to save weight(?)...