Hetchin Frames

[Wanker]

Anyone out there have any experience with the Hetchin frame set? If so, how do the frames feel in general, and how well are they finished?
Thanks,
Wanker

[dnovo]

I have a couple of vintage Hetchins. They were noted for very elaborate lugwork, paint, etc. A strong following among vintage enthusiasts. The modern framesets are well built, but relatively heavy. More of a 'period piece' than anything else. If you want a modern 'retro' item, they would serve, as would the Bates Cantiflex or a Bob Jackson. The wait time for a Hetchins now approximates a Richard Sachs and, unless you are into the Hetchins frame of mind, I would go with an American custom. Columbine can do that, as can Dave Kirk. Dave N.

[Wanker]

Thanks dnovo,

Is the Hetchin ride soft; does it flex while climbing? Based upon your response, the ride must not be anything special, unlike a richard sachs or possibly the Bates.
Another general question comes to mind, which I'd appreciate your input (or anyone else). If, let's say Dave Kirk and Richard Sachs used identical steele tube sets, and the identical component sets were used to finish the bikes, could a major difference be decernable in ride characteristics between the two bikes? I'm also assuming the exact frame size and geometry.
Thanks for you response.
Don

[dnovo]

Neither the Hetchins nor the Bates will have the ride or response of the Sachs or a Kirk. They are very well crafted, beautifully built retros. The Bates Cantiflex tubing was developed in the 30s as a variation on 531. The new Hetchins is not built to be 'light' nor 'fast.' Richard Sachs and David Kirk (and others) can build you a much lighter steel frame, which will handle, ride and respond far better. (A lot of developments in tubing and build over the last few decades.)

And, a Kirk is not a Sachs, nor vice versa.

If everything was exactly the same, tubeset (which would include diameter, etc as, for example 725 comes in several iterations) identical, angles identical et al, of course they would ride and respond the same. Richard and David are both skilled craftsman and given everything 'exactly' the same, I would expect the same result.

However, there is a lot more than just the 'tubing' and basic geometry at issue. My lugged Kirk and my 'fancy' lug Kirk are nearly the same, except Dave tweaked the seat and ht angles a bit and, perhaps, may have altered the fork rake a bit. He said it shouldn't make a huge difference, but thought it would give me a bit more response on turn in. Also, when Dave was building all three of my bikes, he 'tuned' them to deliver what I wanted based on differing tube diameters and 'response', differing fork rake, ST and HT angles, etc.

Prime example is my filet Kirk. It uses a different diam and 'type' of Reynolds 725 than my two lugged frames. It was set up to be a sprinter. The diameter of the tubing and the build effects stiffness. As a result, very much stiffer than a Hetchins or a Bates.

So lots of variations. A Kirk is not a Sachs, but both are excellent. I live the details to the pros. If you want, Dave Kirk will be happy to talk to you as he posts here or will speak to you if you call. Richie is also a great guy to seak to, as are other builders I have spoken to by phone or email, including Dario Pegoretti, Curt Goodrich, etc. Dave N.

[Too Tall]

So, why the Hetchins and what do you want to do with it?

If you already have a quiver of bikes it's understandable to want one.

[dnovo]

I don't own a 'modern' Hetchins, nor am I likely to purchase one. I have a few much older, original model Hetchins which are part of my vintage collection. My interest in them as a vintage bike is hardly unique, as they are avidly sought after whenever they come up for sale.

I have no interest in the new vesions at all. Dave N.

[rwl]

I have a later-years pursuit frame, built by Jack Denny. 531 tubing, flat double plate crown, round blade fork, you know, all the correct stuff.

I love the ride - its my one fixie. Phil track hubs, fiamme yellow labels, tied & soldered. It is (as I suspect all fixies are from a roadie's perspective) stunningly responsive. Middling gears, track pitches, M-71 pedals and its just like, well, every tiny change of spin shoots you forward. The suddenness of the accelleration, rather than the speed, is the remarkable bit about fixies. Mine is orange, black HT & st panel, gold pinstriping on the lugs and bands. If i'm feeling bummed, staring at the decals lifts my soul.

Intellectually, its 531. Its softer, smaller diameter, rounder, hence less 'biased' to deflect sideways and not vertically. In short, its got to be storing a lot more energy, but, hey, its a pursuit bike, so it doesn't *feel* that way.

I rode, long ago (when I ordered the pursuit frame), several of the classic, ornate, wavy stays. The lug-work, while ornate, was a bit unpolished, not the wonderfull, thin, shorelines that you see in, say, one of Eisentraut's frames. Jack Denny's work on my frame is somewhere 'tween. They are, of course, all english paint, which I've come to think of as a kind of very shiny clay - a bit brittle, a bit lumpy. The English know no better.


Rick