Tubular Crr

[Splash]

Hi All.

This article below outlines the Crr results of high end clincher tires and tubular tires. It has the Veloflex Carbon (Tubular) with the lowest test of Crr.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2007/06/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-qa-with-lennard-zinn-rolling-resistance_12493

Your thoughts on this particular tubular tire?

Does anyone know of any other tubular tire with a lower rated Crr?


Splash

[happycampyer]

The Veloflex Carbons are excellent tires, among the best tubulars made. I prefer the Arenbergs because they are a little wider, but don't really care so much about relative rolling resistance. What I like about them is the ride quality.

[rnhood]

That's an old article. I believe some of the more modern clinchers beat tubulars in resistance but its pretty academic. Its generally the other attributes that should lead a person to select a given tire.

[Splash]

Thanks.

Happycamper - what is the more aero tire of the 2 that woudl suit the 6.7's?

Splash

[kgreene10]

That's an old article. I believe some of the more modern clinchers beat tubulars in resistance but its pretty academic. Its generally the other attributes that should lead a person to select a given tire.

I'm sure someone will remember the details better than me, but wasn't the super-fast clincher one of those Specialized Turbo Tires that is so thin that it's basically only suited for a smooth TT with your team car behind (think Tony Martin)?

[saab2000]

Veloflex Carbon and Criterium are essentially the same tire and my favorite tires ever. I've ridden them for years and can't recommend them highly enough.

But they are tubulars and if that's not your thing then don't go there. But there's no finer tire made, for paved road riding, IMHO. I have a stash of 22mm Veloflexes and they're now 23 but I never have had a reason to ride anything else.

I do ride other tires but when I pull out the Zanconato with my Veloflexes there is simply no finer ride available. I've ridden them in the wet too. Just fine.

[Splash]

Thanks Guys,

Saab2000 - would the carbons suit the enve 6.7's tubular rims? If so, which width tire in this brand is best and at what pressures?

Splash

[saab2000]

Thanks Guys,

Saab2000 - would the carbons suit the enve 6.7's tubular rims? If so, which width tire in this brand is best and at what pressures?

Splash

I don't know about those rims. I think they're kind of wide. 99% of my riding on the Veloflex tires took place on Campagnolo Nucleon rims.

I can't really advise on those rims.

As to pressures, I'm about your weight. I am 6' tall and most of my riding on those tires was in the mid 180s. I run them at no more than 100 PSI and often 90 or so. They don't get soft in a bad way at low pressure. They just ride nicer.

When I ride them nowadays it's at 90 PSI or so. I ride the older 22mm version.

[happycampyer]

Thanks.

Happycamper - what is the more aero tire of the 2 that would suit the 6.7's?

SplashEnve has a FAQ on their website where they state that a 23mm tire on a clincher rim is more aero in the wind tunnel, but in the real world a 25mm tire would provide a bigger contact patch with minimal aero penalty:

https://enve.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203475165-FAQ-Road-Wheels-

I recall Zipp making similar statements about their Firecrest rims. Fwiw, I find the 23mm Veloflex Carbons (and the 22mm predecessors) to ride better than many 25mm tires from other manufacturers. Since tires are a wear item, there's no harm in trying out one and switching to another when you've worn a pair out. Imo you are much better off reaching your own conclusions through experimentation.

[Splash]

thanks Saab and happy camper

all the rage today seems to be 'go with wider true widths" - 25mm, etc.

Can i ask why you choose stay with the 22mm width tires (and not 25mm)?


Splash

[happycampyer]

My guess is that Saab bought a containerful of the 22s back before wider tires were all the rage. As I mentioned, the 22s ride better than a lot of others' 25s. I'd bet that if he were buying them now he'd buy the Arenbergs over the Carbons, but I'll wait for Saab to chime in.

[saab2000]

My guess is that Saab bought a containerful of the 22s back before wider tires were all the rage. As I mentioned, the 22s ride better than a lot of others' 25s. I'd bet that if he were buying them now he'd buy the Arenbergs over the Carbons, but I'll wait for Saab to chime in.

This is correct. I came upon a bunch of used and new Veloflexes a couple years ago and bought them. They're just 'aging' in my garage at the moment. I wish I didn't have so many frankly.

I agree that my 22mm Veloflex ride nicer than 25s of other brands. I don't know why. But they have a ride quality that's unique and unequalled by other brands. That said, they're not the only tires I ride. I got some ENVE 1.45 wheels last year and they came with some Schwalbe tubulars which I'm attempting to wear out.

I don't know which size tubulars ENVE recommends for the 6.7 rims. I'd shoot them an e-mail or look on their site. I think they make a recommendation on size.

[Splash]

Thanks Saab.

I read somewhere that either the 25mm or 23mm have a rounder or more elongated longer contact patch. Not sure which one is which or which is better, but one of them is from a Crr point of view...?

Do you know?


Splash

[saab2000]

Thanks Saab.

I read somewhere that either the 25mm or 23mm have a rounder or more elongated longer contact patch. Not sure which one is which or which is better, but one of them is from a Crr point of view...?

Do you know?


Splash

Don't know anything about Crr for these or any other tire. I just know they ride the best of any tire I've ridden and I've ridden them all. Well almost, I haven't ridden the 25mm Veloflex. Never saw a reason to do so.

[Splash]

Great stuff! Thanks.

Splash

[oldpotatoe]

Hi All.

This article below outlines the Crr results of high end clincher tires and tubular tires. It has the Veloflex Carbon (Tubular) with the lowest test of Crr.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2007/06/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-qa-with-lennard-zinn-rolling-resistance_12493

Your thoughts on this particular tubular tire?

Does anyone know of any other tubular tire with a lower rated Crr?


Splash

Don't now any Crr of any tire. The differences, you will note, are really tiny. Crr isn't the reason(s) to use a tubular.

Ride, safety, comfort, corning at speed ability..all are reasons for tubulars.

Veloflex are keen tires but GD expensive(even at wholesale and MO/interweb prices). For this old fart who uses tubulars exclusively(even on wet weather Moots), loves Vittoria Corsa Elite in 25mm. BEST combo of what you are looking for in a tubular. Comfy, DURABLE, corners well..not the $ of a nice meal at Frasca's in Boulder.

Crr? what's that?

[summilux]

I'm with Saab on this one. Veloflex are the best tubulars I have ever used. I have not used the Vittoria that OP suggests mind you. I have used a more expensive FMB tire in 25 but didn't feel any difference with my Veloflexes. I use Arenberg/Paris Roubaixes on all my bikes except for my C50 which won't take a 25 so I use the Record. Veloflexes corner nicely and I have worn multiple sets down without flatting. I do age them for a year. The only road tire that I have found to ride nicer was a Challenge tubular but those stupid things flatted every 50km or so.

The only down side to Veloflex is price. Find an online European retailer and the price is reasonable but still expensive.

[nm87710]

This forum is more focused on the subjective. You already found Slowtwitch

[reggiebaseball]

... This forum is more focused on the subjective. You already found Slowtwitch ...

Good Luck

Actually, if you want to get into quantitative technical performance analysis, the answer is that it matters more if you properly tape your number to your chest for the race, or use a water bottle on the downtube but NOT the seat tube, or have a slick aero helmet than any advantage provided by ENVE wheels or picking tires based on Crr.

http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-and-gear-features/previews/revenge-nerds


Most people don't realize that a nonaero helmet creates four times the drag of a nonaero wheelset. So you can spend two thousand dollars on a wheelset, or spend two hundred on a helmet and be faster. How you put your race number on matters more than having an aero wheel; today, we glued on our numbers to get them to fit flatter. Then there's water bottle placement: On a round-tubed frame, having a bottle on your seat tube is more aerodynamic than not having one at all, and it's much more aero than putting it on the down tube. And wearing gloves in a time trial will slow you down more than using a nonaero front wheel....
We've learned that your bike accounts for only 15 to 25 percent of your overall drag; 75 percent of how fast you go is determined by how your body gets in the way of the air...


Which means if you are not already wearing one of these:
http://university.tri-sports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Vorttice10.jpg

don't sweat Crr, or listen to anyone who does.

The tire suggestions are quite good. Veloflex are the best, but require aging for best puncture resistance and loose air quickly overnight, Vittoria are nearly as supple and hold air better and can be used right away. Both are easy to stretch onto rims and glue up.

[djdj]

I have used Veloflex 22/23 for years and rarely get flats. i tried Vittoria a couple of years ago to save a few bucks -- got many flats. I'm back on Veloflex with my 2014 Bora One's. Veeery nice at the right pressure -- I'm ~150 lbs and run about 85 psi front and 95 in the back.

[yakstone]

I agree with the Veloflex Carbon being great tires. My road wheels are split between those and FMB Comp CX.

Both great tires with a plush ride.

Contrary to those who feel gluing on tires is a hassle, I find it enjoyable and a well done mount is very satisfying.