Mom's New Bike--A $10,000 Tarmac

[Avincent52]

I was just at the local bike shop getting the funky front derailleur on my son's mountain bike straightened out.

The guy carried down a new bike and its proud new owner, a slightly fitter than average soccer mom and her husband. They were trying to figure out which bottle cages looked better--the red, the white or the black?

They decided on the black.

The bike? It was an S-Works Tarmac, full DI2 Dura Ace, everything but the disc brakes. Pretty bike, all white, red graphics, red tape. They picked the right cages IMHO.

(Roughly the bike below, but with red graphics)

I guessed $8k. The guys turning wrenches reminded me it was DI2 so it was a couple grand on top of that.

It's funny, because I had been in exactly that scenario with my own wife, except she bought a $400 Gary Fisher and she was wondering if that was too much to spend on a bike.

There are certainly worse ways to spend that kind of money, but some better ones too, including my own Campy-equipped Tarmac, the BMW wagon I carry it in, and a 1930s martin guitar to make up the difference. But they seem to be happy with their rather casual purchase. (They didn't seem to understand or care that tires come in different widths, but they were very concerned that the color of the new front matched the back.)

I'm clearly in the wrong line of work.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/06/a5/6f06a520a8325c2b2e776be606493af7.jpg

[malcolm]

If you've got the $$$ and it tickles your fancy, go for it.

[dave thompson]

What's the big deal? A woman wants a bike, buys what she considers is good for her, wants to better herself, good on her. Women can do whatever we do when it comes to bikes. My wife is a good example: high dollar Calfee Tetra Pro, she tells me what she wants for it, she buys it, I install it. She doesn't necessarily care or understand bike details but she knows what she wants it to do. This year so far she's got near 4,000 miles logged. Not too bad for an old broad drawing Social Security.

No one would say anything if a newbie guy came into a shop asking what color bottle cages. We do it all the time; bar tape/tire/saddle color match.

[dustyrider]

I think the big deal has to do with the presumption that someone who hasn't owned this type of bike before has this kind of money to essentially try it out. Personally, I love buyers like her. If she doesn't get into the sport, it's just one more deal on a lightly used bike! Doubt it was a 58 though....

[dpk501]

Aren't you quick to judge? Maybe that was the perfect bike for them tires and all. She may be a fit rider but you're making assumptions.

Bottom line, she's on a bike and riding. If she can afford that then good for her.

My friends' buy stock bikes and fawn over aesthetics and a chance to try a new brand of tires or tape.

Some may say that there are better ways to spend money then on your Campy-equipped Tarmac, the BMW wagon I carry it in, and a 1930s martin guitar. It's all about perspective.

But hating on what people buy or can afford is jealousy. Having another person on a bike riding and appreciating the sport is a great thing no matter what financial situation they have.






I was just at the local bike shop getting the funky front derailleur on my son's mountain bike straightened out.

The guy carried down a new bike and its proud new owner, a slightly fitter than average soccer mom and her husband. They were trying to figure out which bottle cages looked better--the red, the white or the black?

They decided on the black.

The bike? It was an S-Works Tarmac, full DI2 Dura Ace, everything but the disc brakes. Pretty bike, all white, red graphics, red tape. They picked the right cages IMHO.

(Roughly the bike below, but with red graphics)

I guessed $8k. The guys turning wrenches reminded me it was DI2 so it was a couple grand on top of that.

It's funny, because I had been in exactly that scenario with my own wife, except she bought a $400 Gary Fisher and she was wondering if that was too much to spend on a bike.

There are certainly worse ways to spend that kind of money, but some better ones too, including my own Campy-equipped Tarmac, the BMW wagon I carry it in, and a 1930s martin guitar to make up the difference. But they seem to be happy with their rather casual purchase. (They didn't seem to understand or care that tires come in different widths, but they were very concerned that the color of the new front matched the back.)

I'm clearly in the wrong line of work.

[pdmtong]

Di2 is a godsend for woman children or anyone with small hands unable to easily manage the lever throw needed for the front rings

I will absolutely buy my daughter a Di2 bike at some point.


Dont be shocked. the purchase you described happens all the time around here.

[velomonkey]

Come on, leave the guy alone - yes, people have a right to buy whatever they want - he's just making note it seems to be a whole lot more bike as compared to the engine. And yes, it happens all the time - nothing wrong with taking note.

As for the bike itself - wow: red, white and black - you never, ever see bikes with those colors. Clearly specialized has hired the best graphic designer - watch out Ritte Bikes.

[velotrack]

Also, that is one cool background on that wall. Or are they windows?

[fuzzalow]

Gotta stop getting irritated over what anybody else is doin' as far as buyin' stuff. There is always somebody richer, smarter, faster, prettier, etc etc etc...

The OP runs right along the edges of sexism and populism in the same thread. That's two strikes already, better quit while you're ahead.

[velomonkey]

The OP runs right along the edges of sexism and populism in the same thread. That's two strikes already, better quit while you're ahead.

Populism is a plus, not a minus (at least in my book).

[JeffS]

I'm clearly in the wrong line of work.


Or on the wrong forum.

You'll get no love around these parts criticizing conspicuous consumption.... or matchy matchy bikes.

[malcolm]

Disposable income is disposable income. I've got friends that have spent far less on cars over the years than I have on bikes.

If you can afford it and it gets you out there then more power to you.

I can remember as a young guy riding an old bianchi that was a touch to big with cobbled together campy stuff and being disgusted by the old guys on their Italian 'nagos and pinarellos with all record goodness sitting along the lake drinking coffee. Now I'm the old guy and can afford the nice bike but no longer have the engine, but hey I like it and it keeps me active.

One other thing I'll add is be careful judging the fitness of the soccer mom, I've know more than a few than can hurt you aerobically.

[velomonkey]

You'll get no love around these parts criticizing conspicuous consumption.... or matchy matchy bikes.

Call me old fashion, my disappointment lies with the stem and all the spacers.

[shovelhd]

No SRM. Pedestrian.

[rnhood]

Spacers today are away of keeping versatility in geometry. Fairly prevalent with today's race bikes in general. Racers like it low, others may like less drop depending on fit. Nothing wrong either way. Performance before fashion, imho. Otherwise that bike looks very good.

[oldpotatoe]

No SRM. Pedestrian.

Clinchers, her name is Nancy.

[roguedog]

What's the big deal? A woman wants a bike, buys what she considers is good for her, wants to better herself, good on her. Women can do whatever we do when it comes to bikes. My wife is a good example: high dollar Calfee Tetra Pro, she tells me what she wants for it, she buys it, I install it. She doesn't necessarily care or understand bike details but she knows what she wants it to do. This year so far she's got near 4,000 miles logged. Not too bad for an old broad drawing Social Security.

No one would say anything if a newbie guy came into a shop asking what color bottle cages. We do it all the time; bar tape/tire/saddle color match.

We can hang, Mr Thompson. Thank you

[Big Dan]

Good looking bike.

[aramis]

Actually has a little saddle/bar drop.

It's no venge and she isn't out training for a triathlon in a skinsuit and aero helmet and $600 shoes so she won't take any of my Koms. I ain't worried.

Before my dad died he bought a dura ace cannondale to ride on the bike trails at 15mph. I mean it was "only" 3k and it made him happy and he was the kind of guy that drove a car with 350k miles on it. So it's silly to go all nuts with cycling equipment but the best part about it, is it doesn't make that much difference.

[stephenmarklay]

I壇 buy my wife or encourage her to buy that bike if thats what it took to get her to ride more. Cheaper than heart attack.

[fuzzalow]

Populism is a plus, not a minus (at least in my book).

HaHa! It all depends how the mob decrees whether owning a custom titanium racing bike is being elitist or not. If it isn't.....[stepping back into the crowd] Don't look at me, I'm with them!

[kramnnim]

Didn't know something like that would cost $10k.

[93legendti]

If i had all the money I spent on average bikes and guitars until I decided low end bikes and guitars didn't make the experiences enjoyable...


It's hard to judge someone's expenditures unless you know their income, bank balance, retirement fund, total debt owed and total expenditures.


More power to her.

[velomonkey]

HaHa! It all depends how the mob decrees whether owning a custom titanium racing bike is being elitist or not. If it isn't.....[stepping back into the crowd] Don't look at me, I'm with them!

Hahah, the crowd doesn't know jack about ti - to them I look like the kinda poor guy on a really old bike. Only our little secret corner of the internet am a worthy of a scepter.

[pakora]

Didn't know that calling someone a "soccer mom" wasn't considered to be sexist language.

[Walter]

I did not know there was a rule that you could only buy a bike that matched your skill level. Lots of folks drive cars that they lack the skill level to get within 30% of the car's capabilities. No one kwetches about that.

The thread reminds me of when I bought my then wife a nice bike because she wanted to ride with me. Her son (my then-step son) was miffed because he was a "better rider." They are both gone now...I do miss the bike...

[fuzzalow]

Didn't know that calling someone a "soccer mom" wasn't considered to be sexist language.

It doesn't revolve around the appellation of "soccer mom". The implied sexism was tied to the incredulous purchase of an expensive, serious cycling enthusiast class machine for a rider who is female. Capish?

[feta99]

Di2 is a godsend for woman children or anyone with small hands unable to easily manage the lever throw needed for the front rings

I will absolutely buy my daughter a Di2 bike at some point.


Dont be shocked. the purchase you described happens all the time around here.

Good point about Di2. I recently bought my wife a city bike and would have gladly sprung for the electronic shifting version. It would have doubled the cost but knowing that the easy di2 shifting would make biking more enjoyable for my wife would have been a small price to pay. Now that I think about that more, I can't wait until there are more entry level bikes with eshifting.

[palincss]

Didn't know that calling someone a "soccer mom" wasn't considered to be sexist language.

Well, the "mom" part is definitely sexist, no men need apply.

[sworcester]

I understand the OPs amazement, I do mostly the pay/group/fondo rides on Saturdays and am constantly amazed at the people out there. Aero helmets, high end Pinarellos and Cervellos, but I can't really say much. I am in there same bracket. Enough disposable income to make me dangerous and on the constant upgrade path.

Maybe that is fun thing about cycling vs , say running, you can be in poor shape and as long as you can sit for that period of time, we love you. Thanks for participating. Enjoy life.

[Llewellyn]

Good on her - it's a shame it was a Spesh though.

[joosttx]

This normal where I live. In fact, at the local LBS there is a $10+ custom bike on the display. The owner is a "collector" not really a rider and has been MIA for about 6 weeks now. I say smoke them if you got them.

[gemship]

Gotta stop getting irritated over what anybody else is doin' as far as buyin' stuff. There is always somebody richer, smarter, faster, prettier, etc etc etc...

The OP runs right along the edges of sexism and populism in the same thread. That's two strikes already, better quit while you're ahead.

I mostly agree except I don't see anything sexist in the op's statement. Heck there's absolutely nothing wrong with this on topic thread and I don't think the OP needs any explaining to regarding your comments or Velomonkey's. Really...I don't get you guys, what's with the criticism? People got boo coo bucks and spend it on stupid things. On one hand it's amazing and makes you go hmmm but on the other who cares. Well who cares besides you ribbing a forumite over their amazement?

I get it, what the op stated and it's OK. I was at at the grocery store today and thought the same thing minus I didn't see the driver of the new corvette in the parking lot. Just thought I am in the wrong line of work. Go ahead use some big words to put me down too now:bike:


edit: I just used the ignore list feature for the first time and it works lovely!

[sitzmark]

Life is short. Live it with all the gusto you can!

[marciero]

There are certainly worse ways to spend that kind of money, but some better ones too, including my own Campy-equipped Tarmac, the BMW wagon I carry it in, and a 1930s martin guitar to make up the difference.

When asked what someone learning guitar should spend on an instrument, another 1930's Martin guitar owner, Tony Rice, advised "buy the best one you can afford".
I feel that way about bikes too. Whether the Tarmac is the best bike for the woman who purchased it is a different question, of course.

[fuzzalow]

I mostly agree

...and then....here comes the ton of bricks!

except I don't see anything sexist in the op's statement. Heck there's absolutely nothing wrong with this on topic thread and I don't think the OP needs any explaining to regarding your comments or Velomonkey's. Really...I don't get you guys, what's with the criticism? People got boo coo bucks and spend it on stupid things. On one hand it's amazing and makes you go hmmm but on the other who cares. Well who cares besides you ribbing a forumite over their amazement?

I get it, what the op stated and it's OK. I was at at the grocery store today and thought the same thing minus I didn't see the driver of the new corvette in the parking lot. Just thought I am in the wrong line of work. Go ahead use some big words to put me down too now:bike:


edit: I just used the ignore list feature for the first time and it works lovely!

I don't know what you are trying to say here. Have I got a bullseye painted on my back?

I don't have any grudge with you and I don't know why you have one on me. [delete] If you catch me in a screwup of my own, I can guarantee you I can laugh at myself with no embarrassment. And if you make a good point in holding my feet to the fire while doing it, I'd buy you a beer while we both laugh at me.

C'mon man, Peace. No man, really...Peace.

P.S. The imagery that keeps floating in my head about all this constant scuffling is the one of Mick Jagger at Altamont 1969 pleading with the crowd and The Hells Angels to not to continue to fight. The fleeting idyll of the Summer of Love, in by August of '69 and gone by Dec of '69. The Maysles Brothers documentary "Gimme Shelter" is one of the best rock films ever made.

[texbike]

What a FN ridiculous thread!!! Three pages and not a single picture of the "slightly fitter than average" soccer mom. What's this place coming to??? ;)

Texbike

[54ny77]

who cares.

everything's relative.

the average bike cost of most members on this forum, even if it was a couple grand all-in (at most), is mind-boggling to most people.

[Avincent52]

Okay...

A few things. That's not a picture of her bike, just one pretty much like it. (I did say that...) Her's was much smaller--a 49 probably--and better looking with red tape, red graphics and less blocking on the frame itself. No pictures of her either.

And I'm just relating a story.

Nice for the shop that they sold a $10K bike. Nice for her that she'll have a nice bike to ride. Nice, maybe, for the next rider who buys it will get a nice deal.

I would have told the same story if it was a guy.

(And FWIW, there was a middle-aged couple with almost equally nice Tarmacs but with hard mileage on them, who dropped in for a quick headset fix. We talked about the Tour and from the conversation, it seems like the woman was the fitter rider. Good for her.)

I"m all for buying nice things. I've got a lot of stuff like that, from bikes to guitars to stereo gear, that's way too good for who it's for.

I just thought it was kind of funny to see this woman buy a $10,000 bike almost as an impulse buy, and go through the same kind of "match the bottle cage" ritual that we might have done with my wife's $400 hybrid.

[gemship]

...and then....here comes the ton of bricks!



I don't know what you are trying to say here. Have I got a bullseye painted on my back?

I don't have any grudge with you and I don't know why you have one on me. Sure, I ribbed you over that Bryant Gumbel remark but you deserved it. Honestly, don't blame me for your screwups. If you catch me in a screwup of my own, I can guarantee you I can laugh at myself with no embarrassment. And if you make a good point in holding my feet to the fire while doing it, I'd buy you a beer while we both laugh at me.

C'mon man, Peace. No man, really...Peace.

I didn't deserve any comments in regards to that other thread, ironically that thread was quickly forgotten. Bryant Gumbel reporting on bicycle safety is ridiculous in itself and that kind of reporting really only appeals to a very small contingent of bicycle enthusiasts. My comment on that was out of left field but really not all that racy, its just that this forum is heavily neutered for better and worse out of fear of who knows who reads it. Honestly I think you like to stir the pot, a lot and with big words and over analyzing. It is what it is I will live to ignore. Actually I am spending way less time here and the forum almost always logs me out if I am browsing other sites so it's easy enough to let it all go. I also don't feel that I am much of a bicycle enthusiast these days. They are primitive devices and no big deal to talk about.

[gemship]

Okay...

A few things. That's not a picture of her bike, just one pretty much like it. (I did say that...) Her's was much smaller--a 49 probably--and better looking with red tape, red graphics and less blocking on the frame itself. No pictures of her either.

And I'm just relating a story.

Nice for the shop that they sold a $10K bike. Nice for her that she'll have a nice bike to ride. Nice, maybe, for the next rider who buys it will get a nice deal.

I would have told the same story if it was a guy.

(And FWIW, there was a middle-aged couple with almost equally nice Tarmacs but with hard mileage on them, who dropped in for a quick headset fix. We talked about the Tour and from the conversation, it seems like the woman was the fitter rider. Good for her.)

I"m all for buying nice things. I've got a lot of stuff like that, from bikes to guitars to stereo gear, that's way too good for who it's for.

I just thought it was kind of funny to see this woman buy a $10,000 bike almost as an impulse buy, and go through the same kind of "match the bottle cage" ritual that we might have done with my wife's $400 hybrid.

Well put and I got it the first time. Anyone getting on your case here for that really needs their head checked. It maybe passe on this forum or out in Hollywood and other wealthy towns and cities to make an impulse buy like that but for me...call me an old yankee. It would be a serious purchase that I would want to make good use of. I spent, correction wasted 5k on a plastic dream bike. Put 1800 non competitive miles on it and it's a nice bike but with a narrow focus that I regret buying for the simple fact that I don't use it enough.

[fuzzalow]

I didn't deserve any comments in regards to that other thread,

OK. Gone. Please fix the quoted parts of your post.

[velomonkey]

I was with you, till this was said in regard to bikes . . . .

They are primitive devices and no big deal to talk about.

[gemship]

There's no post here that needs fixing. There was this link in a thread on here awhile back. It was a youtube video of this raunchy Aussie, he coined HTFU. I think it was an attempt at humor yet serious. We as humans say stupid things and to a degree that's OK. We don't need to delete what we say, it's not like we're a bunch of babies on here. I'll buy you the beer but it will have to a virtual one for now as distance is a factor not to mention schedules. I actually envy you folks that can surf this site all hours of the day as I find myself hunkering down in the trenches of the rat race. You know I could buy that corvette but it would wipe out my bank account and besides they don't pull trailers very well much less haul clams. Ditto for bicycles. :beer:

[charliedid]

Breaking news: Woman buys new bike. More news after the break.

[Tickdoc]

Bikes are cool now. Kinda pisses me off. I liked it better when no one else rode.

[cinema]

Breaking news: Woman buys new bike. More news after the break.

i am not super sensitive to political junk but the subtext/actual text in OPs post is pretty offensive. laughably ignorant actually, guess i'm not super offended as this has become the norm. "Mom". really? grow the ···· up. i'm normally dry and often politically incorrect but i sense zero irony and pure stupidity from this guy.

[Elefantino]

Bikes are cool now. Kinda pisses me off. I liked it better when no one else rode.
I blame Armstrong.

[Tickdoc]

I didn't sense that at all. Maybe I'm just as judge mental/insensitive.

[etu]

i am not super sensitive to political junk but the subtext/actual text in OPs post is pretty offensive. laughably ignorant actually, guess i'm not super offended as this has become the norm. "Mom". really? grow the ï½·ï½·ï½·ï½· up. i'm normally dry and often politically incorrect but i sense zero irony and pure stupidity from this guy.

really?
OP's post seems a lot less offensive than yours.:no:

[cinema]

i stand by it, op is latent misogyny and smug

[downtube]

I don't care if it's a mom or dad who got a new bike I am happy for them. I am sure it will be an awesome ride and may result in more enjoyment for that person. Being able to buy a new bike is fun for most people. Hope she rides the wheels off of it.
Cheers
Chuck

[dpk501]

I completely agree the subtext is offensive.

First that women with the bike may become that experienced couple with the tarmacs you were talking to in the future.

OP states an observation but the subtext is judgmental and jealous.

I went to school and training for 13 years. Payed a ···· tone of loans off worked all my life and if my significant other wanted something I could afford that would make her experience into a sport I love easier than so be it.

OP states he'd make the same judgement if it was a man but you're going to judge me for what I spend my hard earned money on even thought I'm slightly out of shape now? I used to be an athlete but somehow my present state allows you to make judgments "observations"? please...

Maybe I should judge my patients by their appearance? Or my SO's parents who are farmers but decided to go by a Cadillac because they saved all they're lives.

Will you tell me I don't deserve my Audi A7? How would you judge my poor immigrant parents when you bring your BMW in for service and they're present with the car I got them? Would you say they're underserving based on their appearance or lack of knowledge?


OP judges by appearance which makes him/her ignorant. Go hate and perpetuate your stereotypes somewhere else. Better yet I hoe you're around when I drop big bucks on a bike so I can see your smug jealousy.

really?
OP's post seems a lot less offensive than yours.:no:

[ofcounsel]

There are certainly worse ways to spend that kind of money, but some better ones too, including my own Campy-equipped Tarmac, the BMW wagon I carry it in, and a 1930s martin guitar to make up the difference. But they seem to be happy with their rather casual purchase. (They didn't seem to understand or care that tires come in different widths, but they were very concerned that the color of the new front matched the back.)

I'm clearly in the wrong line of work.


I'm guessing a large percentage of us here have some pretty pricey bikes and are also extremely matchy-matchy with our equipment. My guess is, like this woman, many of us here with our expensive, matchy-matchy bikes wouldn't fit wouldn't fit the stereotype of what you perceive to be a "serious" cyclist. But guess what!?! We come in all shapes and colors.

But really, you don't know my or anyone's story... So why judge it?

[Avincent52]

i stand by it, op is latent misogyny and smug

Oh, I'm a latent misogynist?

When should I expect this to kick in. After I'm done parenting--with my amazing science-teacher-with-an-MBA-wife --a fabulous proto-feminist teenage daughter and a teenage son who truly respects women?
I'll guess keep waiting for it.

But even Freud speaks of a latency period.

I will however cop to smug.

[oldpotatoe]

I did not know there was a rule that you could only buy a bike that matched your skill level. Lots of folks drive cars that they lack the skill level to get within 30% of the car's capabilities. No one kwetches about that.

The thread reminds me of when I bought my then wife a nice bike because she wanted to ride with me. Her son (my then-step son) was miffed because he was a "better rider." They are both gone now...I do miss the bike...

Funny..;)

[Avincent52]

I'm guessing a large percentage of us here have some pretty pricey bikes and are also extremely matchy-matchy with our equipment. My guess is, like this woman, many of us here with our expensive, matchy-matchy bikes wouldn't fit wouldn't fit the stereotype of what you perceive to be a "serious" cyclist. But guess what!?! We come in all shapes and colors.

But really, you don't know my or anyone's story... So why judge it?

I'm as guilty of matchy matchy as anyone. I'm obsessing over matching the different shades of black on my own Tarmac.

This isn't really about gender--although it is more unusual to see a woman drop $10K on a bike than a man--than to use one of those words, class.

I live in the town where the shop is located, and not too many years ago my wife stood in almost the same spot wondering about whether she should get the bottle cage and the taillight, and whether $400 was too much to spend on a bike.

This family spent more than 25 times as much without seemingly a second thought.

And yes, I fully admit, I'm jealous of their ability to do that.

On the surface, no one's getting hurt. She's getting a nice new bike that she may ride a lot, a little or not at all. The shop is making a nice sale so they'll still be there to fix my son's 10-year-old mountain bike the next time the stupid E-mount front derailleur breaks.

But scratch the surface, and I have to think that this kind of income inequality is not the sign of a healthy society. YMMV.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm as guilty of matchy matchy as anyone. I'm obsessing over matching the different shades of black on my own Tarmac.

This isn't really about gender--although it is more unusual to see a woman drop $10K on a bike than a man--than to use one of those words, class.

I live in the town where the shop is located, and not too many years ago my wife stood in almost the same spot wondering about whether she should get the bottle cage and the taillight, and whether $400 was too much to spend on a bike.

This family spent more than 25 times as much without seemingly a second thought.

And yes, I fully admit, I'm jealous of their ability to do that.

On the surface, no one's getting hurt. She's getting a nice new bike that she may ride a lot, a little or not at all. The shop is making a nice sale so they'll still be there to fix my son's 10-year-old mountain bike the next time the stupid E-mount front derailleur breaks.

But scratch the surface, and I have to think that this kind of income inequality is not the sign of a healthy society. YMMV.

Don't get that. If your income/job/lifestyle was dictated by the government, maybe. But find out what the guy and his wife do, and you are free to pursue that or any other profession, including those that make you much more wealthy. Nobody is telling you what to do. Your wife has an MBA, ask her about the 'free market society' we live in.

I'll bet some who look at your BMW or Martin guitar would think the same about you and your wealth. It's all relative. Why not a Toyota and..gonna put something about guitars but I don't know ····e about guitars.

[e-RICHIE]

<cut>

But scratch the surface, and I have to think that this kind of income inequality is not the sign of a healthy society. YMMV.

The rest of the thread notwithstanding, I think it depends on the source of the income inequality. Maybe these people worked harder for what they have, or had better ideas/products that were more marketable than others in the community. Who really knows where the money came from. And why care as long as it was earned fairly? That's a rhetorical question, by the way. As others have written, it's their money to spend.

[Avincent52]

Don't get that. If your income/job/lifestyle was dictated by the government, maybe. But find out what the guy and his wife do, and you are free to pursue that or any other profession, including those that make you much more wealthy. Nobody is telling you what to do. Your wife has an MBA, ask her about the 'free market society' we live in.

I'll bet some who look at your BMW or Martin guitar would think the same about you and your wealth. It's all relative. Why not a Toyota and..gonna put something about guitars but I don't know ï½·ï½·ï½·ï½·e about guitars.

At this point the conversation tips from bikes to class to politics.
Out of respect for your kindness to me personally, Peter, and everyone else's collectively, I'll bow out of this thread and suggest that we agree to disagree.

Maybe I'll start a thread about the relative merits of contrasting bottle cage bolts.
Did I mention that this bike had *red* bottle cage bolts?

Looked really great with the black cage, even if the cool translucent red of the anodizing was a little off from the warmer more opaque red of the adjacent "S-Works" graphics...

[oldpotatoe]

at this point the conversation tips from bikes to class to politics.
Out of respect for your kindness to me personally, peter, and everyone else's collectively, i'll bow out of this thread and suggest that we agree to disagree.

Maybe i'll start a thread about the relative merits of contrasting bottle cage bolts.
Did i mention that this bike had *red* bottle cage bolts?

Looked really great with the black cage, even if the cool translucent red of the anodizing was a little off from the warmer more opaque red of the adjacent "s-works" graphics...

10-4...

[OtayBW]

At this point the conversation tips from bikes to class to politics.
Out of respect for your kindness to me personally, Peter, and everyone else's collectively, I'll bow out of this thread and suggest that we agree to disagree.
That might have been a good place to stop.

Time for my ride....

[fuzzalow]

I dunno, it looks and feels like some folks used what the OP said as an excuse to tee off on him. I do think the OP skirted the edges of sexism and popularism and I stated that but there are far worse crimes on this forum than that perpetrated in almost any Rapha thread. His somewhat politically incorrect sentiment was not expressed over-the-top so in responding, even in dissent, it might have been courteous to also not be over-the-top in a response.

In fairness, one could make an argument that discrimination, expressed and carried out subtly, is the most insidious of all in the furtherance and perpetuation of the transgression.

I took this anecdote concerning his wife's purchase of a bike It's funny, because I had been in exactly that scenario with my own wife, except she bought a $400 Gary Fisher and she was wondering if that was too much to spend on a bike. as simply pride in his wife's sensible frugality in what she desired from a bike. That another couple expressed their preference in a rather more grandiose fashion and expense is pertinent only to that couple.

This thread turns out as another tempest in a teapot. C'mon, give the OP a break and let's not be so quick to throw one of our own under the bus.

[dustyrider]

I used to be an athlete but somehow my present state allows you to make judgments "observations"? please...

OP judges by appearance which makes him/her ignorant. Go hate and perpetuate your stereotypes somewhere else. Better yet I hoe you're around when I drop big bucks on a bike so I can see your smug jealousy.

Yo! I'm pretty sure you're a pot calling a kettle black. Check (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=161227&page=3) it! Post #36.

Ahh the paceline...it's time to ride!

[phcollard]

Some people just live in another sphere than us mere mortals.

The other day I was in a store to have a battery replaced on my watch. They sell watches - obviously - silk scarves, purses, bags... Some luxury items.

A woman enters the store and decides to get that $4k hand bag that she saw in the window. Just like that.

[makoti]

I have to admit, if I was there with the OP I would have chuckled as well. Not because a woman, regardless of shape, was buying the bike (she could have been buying it for him, that would have given me the same reaction), but the part about not knowing or caring about tire sizes. You just think that, when you drop that kind of coin on an item, it means something to you and you know something about it.

[fuzzalow]

Some people just live in another sphere than us mere mortals.

Yep, very true. There is always somebody with more money, more brains, more whatever...I could only wish I was one of those people. But in truth, things are never what they seem and these days the illusion they give to others, for some people, is more important than anything else. So be careful what you wish for because nothing in life is ever simple.

A woman enters the store and decides to get that $4k hand bag that she saw in the window. Just like that.

Peshaw! She's not a real player! That amount of money isn't dear enough and the bag isn't scarce enough to make it a true armament worthy of a matriarch or mademoiselle of the upper crust elite. The Hermes Birkin bag in the 35cm version. Crocodile skin and scale down from there if the dividend check was light last quarter. The mania for this bag and consumption of a vulgar and vapid grand scale is covered in the book "Primates of Park Avenue: A Memoir" by Wednesday Martin. The book is women-centric but it's a quick read if you are curious as I was.

[ofcounsel]

I'm as guilty of matchy matchy as anyone. I'm obsessing over matching the different shades of black on my own Tarmac.

This isn't really about gender--although it is more unusual to see a woman drop $10K on a bike than a man--than to use one of those words, class.

I live in the town where the shop is located, and not too many years ago my wife stood in almost the same spot wondering about whether she should get the bottle cage and the taillight, and whether $400 was too much to spend on a bike.

This family spent more than 25 times as much without seemingly a second thought.

And yes, I fully admit, I'm jealous of their ability to do that.

On the surface, no one's getting hurt. She's getting a nice new bike that she may ride a lot, a little or not at all. The shop is making a nice sale so they'll still be there to fix my son's 10-year-old mountain bike the next time the stupid E-mount front derailleur breaks.

But scratch the surface, and I have to think that this kind of income inequality is not the sign of a healthy society. YMMV.

Thanks for clarifying.

[ofcounsel]

Yep, very true. There is always somebody with more money, more brains, more whatever...I could only wish I was one of those people. But in truth, things are never what they seem and these days the illusion they give to others, for some people, is more important than anything else. So be careful what you wish for because nothing in life is ever simple.


Very true. The thing I would add is that whether you realize it or not ---relative to most of society---you, me and pretty much everyone else on this board is ---to some degree or another--- one of those people.

[phcollard]

Very true. The thing I would add is that whether you realize it or not ---relative to most of society---you, me and pretty much everyone else on this board is ---to some degree or another--- one of those people.

Exactly. Back then when I was making acoustic guitars I was as poor as Job. I would think twice before going out to buy a pair of $50 sneakers. Now I work in IT and have a bit more comfortable income. Twenty years ago I would have looked at myself now as "one of those people" :)

[alancw3]

someone once said on the forum that "one man's floor is another mans ceiling". having thought about that it is probably true in this case. anyway we can only hope to be able to buy said bike at a severe discount when the original buyer moves to the next best and greatest thing. oh and wait there may just be a chance that the purchaser was a real cyclist and this was her greatest purchase in life. don't be to quick to judge w/o all of the facts. just saying.

[93legendti]

I was just at the local bike shop getting the funky front derailleur on my son's mountain bike straightened out.

The guy carried down a new bike and its proud new owner, a slightly fitter than average soccer mom and her husband. They were trying to figure out which bottle cages looked better--the red, the white or the black?

They decided on the black.

The bike? It was an S-Works Tarmac, full DI2 Dura Ace, everything but the disc brakes. Pretty bike, all white, red graphics, red tape. They picked the right cages IMHO.

(Roughly the bike below, but with red graphics)

I guessed $8k. The guys turning wrenches reminded me it was DI2 so it was a couple grand on top of that.

It's funny, because I had been in exactly that scenario with my own wife, except she bought a $400 Gary Fisher and she was wondering if that was too much to spend on a bike.

There are certainly worse ways to spend that kind of money, but some better ones too, including my own Campy-equipped Tarmac, the BMW wagon I carry it in, and a 1930s martin guitar to make up the difference. But they seem to be happy with their rather casual purchase. (They didn't seem to understand or care that tires come in different widths, but they were very concerned that the color of the new front matched the back.)

I'm clearly in the wrong line of work.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/06/a5/6f06a520a8325c2b2e776be606493af7.jpg
Sorry this bothered you so much.

If it didn't bother you and you supported it, her fitness level, status, whether her kids played soccer or not, your wondering about your own line of work, describing this as "casual" (HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU KNOW IF THIS WAS A CASUAL PURCHASE???) would not have been part of your post.

Be honest.



We moan about not enough women in cycling. We moan about not enough successful shops.

Then this nonsense thread.

[oldpotatoe]

Some people just live in another sphere than us mere mortals.

The other day I was in a store to have a battery replaced on my watch. They sell watches - obviously - silk scarves, purses, bags... Some luxury items.

A woman enters the store and decides to get that $4k hand bag that she saw in the window. Just like that.

Went to a Merckx presentation at a watch store in Caeser's Palace in Vegas during Interbike. Next door was a little jewelry store with a multi diamond bangle in a window display. Talked to the young miss in the store, had to know how much this thing was..$230,000 thank you..'sell any?' we ask, 'a couple she says, today'..

We hoped she sold by commission, she smiled..and then we went in and looked at 18k gold Rolex's.

[fuzzalow]

Very true. The thing I would add is that whether you realize it or not ---relative to most of society---you, me and pretty much everyone else on this board is ---to some degree or another--- one of those people.

Yes and this is the last comment I'll make because I've nattered on for far too long...

Some of us, many of us, are doin' OK here. Sure there is always better but it will always come at a cost: time, ethics, morality, relationships, soul etc. Money's important but it is never free and what's it worth to you to have it?

To me the OP is doin' OK: Bimmer, Martin, bikes out of this world from the average bloke (which is another way of saying he can indulge in expensive hobbies). Life is good. Don't envy others, be thankful to yourself. There but with the Grace of God go anyone of us.

I'm happy with what I have although it is not a sin to want more. And the balance can be found for each person as long as they know to look for it, meaning the balance. NYTimes columnist David Brooks has had this theme for his last two books: the equilibrium in the self between what he calls "resume values" and "eulogy values". And his contention that both are essential qualities not just for life but as underpinnings to character that support the steadfastness in the ability to attempt big things in life. Society seems to only emphasis success and all the comes with it but that is a very shallow view and perverse in its prism so do not be mislead.

I rarely envy anyone but I sometimes do. I only dislike it when the advantages were inherited not because they got it but because I wish it was me.

[etu]

For me it's been the tone of the criticism. I think it's great that we can disagree, and as a group, help define what the predomnant views are - both bike and non-bike related. But I just don't think it's helpful to be so strident in our criticism and degenerate into personal attacks. What is your goal? Hear yourself talk/write or to communicate? First step should be to try to understand what the other person is thinking. The thought process behind their statements and actions are not often not what you think they are. What do we know about the OP? Do we really think we know who he is by this one post?

Also for the health of the forum, people need to be able to occaisionally put some half-baked thoughts online and not get crushed for it. Otherwise it no longer becomes a comfortable place to converse and discuss.

[ofcounsel]

Yes and this is the last comment I'll make because I've nattered on for far too long...

Some of us, many of us, are doin' OK here. Sure there is always better but it will always come at a cost: time, ethics, morality, relationships, soul etc. Money's important but it is never free and what's it worth to you to have it?

To me the OP is doin' OK: Bimmer, Martin, bikes out of this world from the average bloke (which is another way of saying he can indulge in expensive hobbies). Life is good. Don't envy others, be thankful to yourself. There but with the Grace of God go anyone of us.

I'm happy with what I have although it is not a sin to want more. And the balance can be found for each person as long as they know to look for it, meaning the balance. NYTimes columnist David Brooks has had this theme for his last two books: the equilibrium in the self between what he calls "resume values" and "eulogy values". And his contention that both are essential qualities not just for life but as underpinnings to character that support the steadfastness in the ability to attempt big things in life. Society seems to only emphasis success and all the comes with it but that is a very shallow view and perverse in its prism so do not be mislead.

I rarely envy anyone but I sometimes do. I only dislike it when the advantages were inherited not because they got it but because I wish it was me.

I'm with you on this 100%.

In elementary school, I'd help my step-mom clean "rich peoples" home over summer vacation. Now, I have folks cleaning my home. Strange how life works....

I made lots of little sacrifices and flat out good choices in my teens, 20's and 30's (and it was never truly "all on my own", as I had help from the G.I. Bill, federally subsidized student loans and State grants....essentially, taxpayers like yourself invested in me!). And now in my 40's, those sacrifices and choices I made, and the investments the feds and the State and the American public made in me are really paying off. I now pay a boatload in taxes back to the feds and the State (and I don't begrudge how the feds or the State use my tax money, for any reason or purpose).

I'm not wealthy in the Lamborghini and champagne sense, but I have a high income ("wealth" and "income" are not the same). And relative to the way I grew up, my family doesn't want for anything. In that sense, I've "made it".

Today, one of my biggest concerns is making sure that my son is instilled with his own set of strong moral and work ethics. Because poverty --which was my biggest driver-- is not part of his world. And I hope he doesn't squander what little real monetary wealth we've been building for him. The wealth pile could have been a lot larger, but in my 30's, I chose to move to a less financially lucrative job that would pay me significantly less but would afford me a more "normal" life.

Today I do well. But I can still catch my son's sports events and be with him, if only just to hang out at the skate park and watch him scoot around on his scooter on nights and weekends. I'm really glad I realized in my 30's that insane amounts of money is not worth it if you have no life. So I don't regret not having the bigger pile (even if I can daydream of the Lamborghini or Ferrari every once in a while). My biggest hope is for my son to find his own sense of balance when he's older.

[velomonkey]

When it comes to bikes and bike parts - I spend money on style - not on trying to get speed. I learned long, long ago that there is diminishing marginal utility on trying to spend money on faster speed - style is at least subjective and when I'm styling I'm feeling good and when I'm feeling good I go faster. I could ride a totally aero'd out bike and wheels, give me an ill fitting ugly jersey and I will ride like crap.

I'll freely say it - spending money on speed is just kind of stupid, but some people need to learn and some people have more money than sense.

Spending money on trying to be styling can be pretentious and thus stupid.

We're all judges - all of us - to say we're not simply isn't being truthful.

After rendering my judgement (e.g., 'that's awesome' - 'whadda tool') - my actual top-thought is "I actually don't give a squirt of pee what anyone buys or rides - I'm happy seeing people on bikes." Doesn't mean I don't judge, though.

[malcolm]

Wow this took a turn for the I don't know what.

I'll say the say thing I say to my kids. There will always be people with more than you and people with less. The trick is to be happy with what you have. Never let yourself get caught living the lifestyle of those that have more. There is no better formula for unhappiness than living beyond your means. Always watch out for those with less and help the ones you can as some of your most satisfying moments will come from helping others succeed.

Even more generally speaking if you think something is unfair work to change it. Complaining doesn't count. If it's not meaningful enough for you to spend your time and or money on then shut up about it.

[dpk501]

Look at my statement and reasoning Dusty. This thread is about Class.

My old statement:
"I don't know. I have a philosophy that I don't take training advice from people who look out of shape. I want to know that they're currently doing what they preach, they walk the walk and they talk it. That helps me psychologically; that I know that the training methods will work."

It's like that in medicine and science. I want to know what drugs work the best. The best surgical techniques. I want data. And to me a trainer at the gym who follows a program and stays current with diet, techniques etc and utilizes it fits with my mindset and keeps me motivated. I'm not going to pay for a personal trainer who doesn't stay fit because my first thought would be hipocrisy.

Conversely my old strength coach was really out of shape but he was always up to date with the science and technique. Wealth of knowledge. So I will say my statement was incomplete because I research the people and their pedigree I'm going to be involved with.

But someone judging whether another is deserving something financially is a discrimination I've faced many times. From going into high end stores and not getting any service but a better dressed person does to other stores saying "oh you probably can't afford that" to random strangers thinking others are undeserving of expensive purchase because they might be newb "soccer mom" is classism, albeit reversed.



Yo! I'm pretty sure you're a pot calling a kettle black. Check (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=161227&page=3) it! Post #36.

Ahh the paceline...it's time to ride!

[dpk501]

exactly

oh and wait there may just be a chance that the purchaser was a real cyclist and this was her greatest purchase in life. don't be to quick to judge w/o all of the facts. just saying.

[dpk501]

You're a good parent!!

Wow this took a turn for the I don't know what.

I'll say the say thing I say to my kids. There will always be people with more than you and people with less. The trick is to be happy with what you have. Never let yourself get caught living the lifestyle of those that have more. There is no better formula for unhappiness than living beyond your means. Always watch out for those with less and help the ones you can as some of your most satisfying moments will come from helping others succeed.

Even more generally speaking if you think something is unfair work to change it. Complaining doesn't count. If it's not meaningful enough for you to spend your time and or money on then shut up about it.

[dpk501]

Kudos to you. I'm still trying to learn work-life balance. My parents worked 14-16 hour days and only took X'mas day off just so we could have a better life.

Us kids adopted the hard work part and are extremely unapologetic about what we can afford. I don't buy for the sake of buying but reward myself with quality items. I've always worked outside of school, in many crap jobs.

If I had to do it again, I would take a lesson from your page and live a more balanced life.

I'm with you on this 100%.

In elementary school, I'd help my step-mom clean "rich peoples" home over summer vacation. Now, I have folks cleaning my home. Strange how life works....

I made lots of little sacrifices and flat out good choices in my teens, 20's and 30's (and it was never truly "all on my own", as I had help from the G.I. Bill, federally subsidized student loans and State grants....essentially, taxpayers like yourself invested in me!). And now in my 40's, those sacrifices and choices I made, and the investments the feds and the State and the American public made in me are really paying off. I now pay a boatload in taxes back to the feds and the State (and I don't begrudge how the feds or the State use my tax money, for any reason or purpose).

I'm not wealthy in the Lamborghini and champagne sense, but I have a high income ("wealth" and "income" are not the same). And relative to the way I grew up, my family doesn't want for anything. In that sense, I've "made it".

Today, one of my biggest concerns is making sure that my son is instilled with his own set of strong moral and work ethics. Because poverty --which was my biggest driver-- is not part of his world. And I hope he doesn't squander what little real monetary wealth we've been building for him. The wealth pile could have been a lot larger, but in my 30's, I chose to move to a less financially lucrative job that would pay me significantly less but would afford me a more "normal" life.

Today I do well. But I can still catch my son's sports events and be with him, if only just to hang out at the skate park and watch him scoot around on his scooter on nights and weekends. I'm really glad I realized in my 30's that insane amounts of money is not worth it if you have no life. So I don't regret not having the bigger pile (even if I can daydream of the Lamborghini or Ferrari every once in a while). My biggest hope is for my son to find his own sense of balance when he's older.

[unterhausen]

I'm as populist as the next guy, "eat the rich" is one of my mottoes**. But I think it's funny that a lot of us look at $10k bike as a huge amount of money for a bike. There are people out there that think nothing of spending more on dinner than this bike cost. I hope she rides the hell out of it. I ride my bikes until they wear out, and I am not as careful with them as I probably should be. So I'm not in the market for a $10k bike. She probably wouldn't have been happy with a $1500 bike.

**by any measure, my household income would make me due for a tumbrel ride.

[professerr]

Here in the valley it is actually surprising to me how few wannabes you see on 10K+ race bikes -- certainly many here can easily afford them. I think it is that there are so many strong riders around here it is pretty hard to avoid feeling silly on your 10K race bike after getting smoked by some middle aged guy on a beater Corsa Extra who chatted you up for a bit at the beginning of the climb.

I do find it fascinating how eager the merely affluent are to defend as meritocratic a system of wealth redistribution that provides them with a just few extra bits and baubles, while providing the very small number of people of own most of the wealth of the nation a level of assets I suspect they don't really grasp, often obtained through means I doubt they understand.

[palincss]

This turned into a discussion of income inequality and class, but maybe it shouldn't have: maybe there's a dimension entirely missed that we should think about.

When you get up to the elite price level with road racing bicycles, you're not looking at bikes designed for the fitness and skill level of "ordinary" or "non-athlete" riders. You're getting bikes designed for highly committed, experienced, fit riders -- people who, for example, are comfortable with closely spaced gearing that doesn't have much of a low range, people who are capable of comfortably riding a "highly strung, sensitive" machine. Put an entry-level rider on a bike like that, what are the chances they're really going to enjoy themselves?

[unterhausen]

the suitability of this bike is an interesting question. I didn't see where the OP is located. In this area, most recreational riders are on a compact with a fairly large gear in the back. In my earlier days, I would have been more than happy with a 39 in front and a 25 in back, but that ship has sailed. I'm hoping that the shop thought of that. I think that other than gearing, it's probably fine

[bjf]

the suitability of this bike is an interesting question. I didn't see where the OP is located. In this area, most recreational riders are on a compact with a fairly large gear in the back. In my earlier days, I would have been more than happy with a 39 in front and a 25 in back, but that ship has sailed. I'm hoping that the shop thought of that. I think that other than gearing, it's probably fine

And then there's the frame geometry. Specialized used to make a women's race bike, the Amira, but I don't see it on the Specialized website for 2016. I hope they at least tried to fit her on the Tarmac, which definitely is going to fit many men better than most women.

[ofcounsel]

Here in the valley it is actually surprising to me how few wannabes you see on 10K+ race bikes -- certainly many here can easily afford them. I think it is that there are so many strong riders around here it is pretty hard to avoid feeling silly on your 10K race bike after getting smoked by some middle aged guy on a beater Corsa Extra who chatted you up for a bit at the beginning of the climb.

I do find it fascinating how eager the merely affluent are to defend as meritocratic a system of wealth redistribution that provides them with a just few extra bits and baubles, while providing the very small number of people of own most of the wealth of the nation a level of assets I suspect they don't really grasp, often obtained through means I doubt they understand.

I'm 5'-10" and 235lbs in my birthday suit (yeah I could drink less beer and put down the fork a bit more often). And a casual glance at my physique might make you think I'm someone that "doesn't ride" because I don't fit the visual mold of a typical cyclist. Still, I often ride my fancy MTBs 4x per week (and yes, they are all super pimpy). But the reality is anyone under 190 lbs who rides more than couple times a week is gonna smoke me up a long fire road climb.

By your definition... regardless of the amount of joy I get out of my bikes I'm a wannabe who should be feeling silly for riding my nice bikes the moment I get smoked up a hill.

I find it fascinating how your perception of what people do with their money colors your judgement. Your point isn't really about class, it's about snobbery.

[ofcounsel]

This turned into a discussion of income inequality and class, but maybe it shouldn't have: maybe there's a dimension entirely missed that we should think about.

When you get up to the elite price level with road racing bicycles, you're not looking at bikes designed for the fitness and skill level of "ordinary" or "non-athlete" riders. You're getting bikes designed for highly committed, experienced, fit riders -- people who, for example, are comfortable with closely spaced gearing that doesn't have much of a low range, people who are capable of comfortably riding a "highly strung, sensitive" machine. Put an entry-level rider on a bike like that, what are the chances they're really going to enjoy themselves?

Not all expensive bikes are nervous road race machines. And even road racing bikes can be fitted with wide range gears. And the original poster himself suggested that his points were more about class.

[unterhausen]

I think the nervous road racing machine is pretty much a thing of the past. Today's racing bikes have pretty solid handling. I wouldn't worry about that. Fit might be a concern, but you would hope that any shop that is selling $10K bikes would have that sorted. I think the women's models are mostly about color choices.

[dpk501]

No one is defending the system; it's not occupy wall street here. And you're assuming that all those agreeing about the context of class in the post are all affluent without knowing.

And good for that guy who can climb away but I don't feel silly. They have a skill and good for them. I have other skills that many can't match even if they went to the finest most expensive schools. Should they feel silly about that?


Here in the valley it is actually surprising to me how few wannabes you see on 10K+ race bikes -- certainly many here can easily afford them. I think it is that there are so many strong riders around here it is pretty hard to avoid feeling silly on your 10K race bike after getting smoked by some middle aged guy on a beater Corsa Extra who chatted you up for a bit at the beginning of the climb.

I do find it fascinating how eager the merely affluent are to defend as meritocratic a system of wealth redistribution that provides them with a just few extra bits and baubles, while providing the very small number of people of own most of the wealth of the nation a level of assets I suspect they don't really grasp, often obtained through means I doubt they understand.

[ofcounsel]

No one is defending the system; it's not occupy wall street here.

Truth.

[Jaq]

Here in the valley it is actually surprising to me how few wannabes you see on 10K+ race bikes -- certainly many here can easily afford them. I think it is that there are so many strong riders around here it is pretty hard to avoid feeling silly on your 10K race bike after getting smoked by some middle aged guy on a beater Corsa Extra who chatted you up for a bit at the beginning of the climb.

I do find it fascinating how eager the merely affluent are to defend as meritocratic a system of wealth redistribution that provides them with a just few extra bits and baubles, while providing the very small number of people of own most of the wealth of the nation a level of assets I suspect they don't really grasp, often obtained through means I doubt they understand.

How extraordinarily indulgent of you to deign to explain to the willfully ignorant middle classes of these electronic environs what a lot of credulous cretins they truly are. For your tireless - and not merely tiresome - fauxbless oblige, and your consistent podium finishes in whatever race-to-be-offended threads this forum conjures up, a prize to the foremost equine posterior of these parts.

https://nevadabike.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/straw-bale-3.jpg

Enjoy.

[charliedid]

Why are some of you making assumptions about the capabilities, skills and or fitness level of someone they have never met?

Because this person didn't care about tire size? Most people who buy a bike assume the tires that come with it are appropriate. And they are.

It's a bike, not a jet. No license or test required, to ride or purchase one.

[jmikeq]

7 pages? Just because some "soccer mom" type looking woman bought a new S-Works Tarmac... :crap:

[Martygarrison]

In June 2010 my wife had never ridden a bicycle. I bought her a $400 Globe and by August we did a 300 mile tour through Montana, Glacier and Waterton National Parks.

In 2013 I brought her a Ruby and fit it out with Force and XX and we did a beautiful 400 mile loop through Vermont.

This last week we just finished riding from Jasper to Whitefish Montana. I have already ordered her X0 fitted Waterford for our next ride. Iceland.

If you want your wife to be your best friend and riding partner...get her good bikes.

Marty

[Peter P.]

The mania for this bag and consumption of a vulgar and vapid grand scale is covered in the book "Primates of Park Avenue: A Memoir" by Wednesday Martin. The book is women-centric but it's a quick read if you are curious as I was.

I was going to add this book to my "must read" list but when I went to my list, it was already there! In some ways we think alike and I look forward to reading it. I'd suggest to you that you read, "Bobos in Paradise".

As far as what was the OP's intent in his original post, I get it and sympathize. The underlying fact is, aficionados in any hobby look at a measure of the things they own as indicative of their involvement in whatever hobby it might be. Call it a badge of honor but it's a reflection of our knowledge and commitment.

When someone merely tosses money at something like the couple buying the Tarmac did, to us it ostensibly diminishes what we've EARNED in pursuing our endeavor, in this case, cycling.

True, we don't know the details behind the purchaser or the purchase and we can be wrong but it's highly possible in my book what the OP observed in the manner the purchase was made was indicative of how the bike was valued and how it will be used.

Sure, many of us, myself included, would be jealous or envious. A very common response.

I don't think the OP was being sexist in his post; he was merely trying to paint a picture of what he saw. Could have been a fat white guy, gangsta, anybody else and the image in my head would be more complete.

[ofcounsel]

In June 2010 my wife had never ridden a bicycle. I bought her a $400 Globe and by August we did a 300 mile tour through Montana, Glacier and Waterton National Parks.

In 2013 I brought her a Ruby and fit it out with Force and XX and we did a beautiful 400 mile loop through Vermont.

This last week we just finished riding from Jasper to Whitefish Montana. I have already ordered her X0 fitted Waterford for our next ride. Iceland.

If you want your wife to be your best friend and riding partner...get her good bikes.

Marty

SERIOUSLY awesome stuff here!

[Seramount]

7 pages? Just because some "soccer mom" type looking woman bought a new S-Works Tarmac... :crap:

don't get it either.

$10K isn't really that much money and a Tarmac isn't on my wish list...

[yakstone]

Well, this was entertaining, if a little long winded.
I agree with texbike though refarding pic of alleged "soccer mom" and I also agree with Velomonkey about not giving a squirt about what others spend their money on.
In this world there are not many things that most of us truly enjoy. If you have identified a hobby or two that makes you happy and throwing down cash on top shelf equipment for said hobby makes it even more enjoyable, head on.

[buddybikes]

>>>When someone merely tosses money at something like the couple buying the Tarmac did, to us it ostensibly diminishes what we've EARNED in pursuing our endeavor, in this case, cycling.


How the heck do you know they just "tossed money"?
= Perhaps they have been researching it for months.

Yes picking out water bottle color would be what my wife would be doing also just before checking out....after decades of riding and hardcore self packed touring.

Heaven forbid if we had a discussion of the perfect waterbottle holder...

[velomonkey]

7 pages where no one knows the OP

7 pages where no one, but the OP, saw the transaction

7 pages where no one, including the OP, knows the "soccer mom"


This is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously: can we all just go for a ride? She could be a rich brat who is gonna go home and break the tarmac and paint it for an 'art' project. Or she maybe just got over being terribly sick and finally kicked whatever made her sick and she wants to celebrate and ride a bike. Could be either or could be something else. Here is the deal

We Will Never Know. Now, keep calm and let's get this to 17 pages!!!! And Martgarrisson - I like the cut of your jib, sir.

[Llewellyn]

Wow, seems to be a lot of pent-up tension in this thread :crap: Just go and enjoy the ride people

[bjf]

I think the women's models are mostly about color choices.

Actually, they almost universally have slightly shorter top tubes than the same company's comparable men's bike (e.g., Roubaix, Ruby). Not saying that they are well designed, but there is a difference that's more than color.

[SBash]

What's the big deal? A woman wants a bike, buys what she considers is good for her, wants to better herself, good on her. Women can do whatever we do when it comes to bikes. My wife is a good example: high dollar Calfee Tetra Pro, she tells me what she wants for it, she buys it, I install it. She doesn't necessarily care or understand bike details but she knows what she wants it to do. This year so far she's got near 4,000 miles logged. Not too bad for an old broad drawing Social Security.

No one would say anything if a newbie guy came into a shop asking what color bottle cages. We do it all the time; bar tape/tire/saddle color match.

AND just maybe she works hard and makes a lot of moolah! Good for her, she wants the best.

My wife has one nice highend air mattress (with drink holder) for pool/lake.:beer:

[professerr]

I'm 5'-10" and 235lbs in my birthday suit (yeah I could drink less beer and put down the fork a bit more often). And a casual glance at my physique might make you think I'm someone that "doesn't ride" because I don't fit the visual mold of a typical cyclist. Still, I often ride my fancy MTBs 4x per week (and yes, they are all super pimpy). But the reality is anyone under 190 lbs who rides more than couple times a week is gonna smoke me up a long fire road climb.

By your definition... regardless of the amount of joy I get out of my bikes I'm a wannabe who should[my bold] be feeling silly for riding my nice bikes the moment I get smoked up a hill.

I find it fascinating how your perception of what people do with their money colors your judgement. Your point isn't really about class, it's about snobbery.

I don't know that you should feel silly, I'm just saying a lot of guys would, and that's why, for better or worse, they don't buy 10K racing bikes. And I would, and do, ride with guys like you all the time. On hard days if they join us, I'll bury the ones I can, just like the local kid on his POS bike will bury me. We all laugh at the end.

Anyway, in some ways, I suppose, a nicely fitting Tarmac (though it needn't be SWORSK), wouldn't be a bad choice at all for a novice riders. They descend with great confidence, a problem area for a lot of new riders.

[professerr]

How extraordinarily indulgent of you to deign to explain to the willfully ignorant middle classes of these electronic environs what a lot of credulous cretins they truly are. For your tireless - and not merely tiresome - fauxbless oblige, and your consistent podium finishes in whatever race-to-be-offended threads this forum conjures up, a prize to the foremost equine posterior of these parts.

https://nevadabike.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/straw-bale-3.jpg

Enjoy.


That was actually nicely written and entertaining, though amidst all the personal attacks I didn't understand exactly what it was that offended you so much. No matter, this is a cycling forum, so I'll leave it at that.

[rugbysecondrow]

7 pages where no one knows the OP

7 pages where no one, but the OP, saw the transaction

7 pages where no one, including the OP, knows the "soccer mom"


This is awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously: can we all just go for a ride? She could be a rich brat who is gonna go home and break the tarmac and paint it for an 'art' project. Or she maybe just got over being terribly sick and finally kicked whatever made her sick and she wants to celebrate and ride a bike. Could be either or could be something else. Here is the deal

We Will Never Know. Now, keep calm and let's get this to 17 pages!!!! And Martgarrisson - I like the cut of your jib, sir.


+1 A first time for anything.

Velo speaks some truth here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ofcounsel]

I don't know that you should feel silly, I'm just saying a lot of guys would, and that's why, for better or worse, they don't buy 10K racing bikes. And I would, and do, ride with guys like you all the time. On hard days if they join us, I'll bury the ones I can, just like the local kid on his POS bike will bury me. We all laugh at the end.


I guess I don't hang out/ride with people who feel silly based on the bikes they ride/don't ride. So I don't see/experience what you are referring to. I'm thinking that's a good thing.

Maybe it's an MTB v. road thing (I spend 80% of my time on MTB's, and the road rides I do are typically longer 60-100 mile rides, usually with groups of MTB friends rather than shop/club/paceline type rides)? But when I ride with folks with less stamina than I, I don't really feel inclined to "bury" them. Instead I feel inclined to ride along side them and help them up the mountain in any way I can. Maybe it's because we ride bikes for fun and adventure instead of for status, pecking orders, or being in some sort of "pain cave" (not to say that climbing mountains isn't painful, it's just not what we're aiming for)? I don't know. But if your experience is typical of road riders, than I'm glad not to be a part of it.

You don't seem like a lot of fun to ride with to me. lol.

[Peter B]

Is it winter again already?

[ofcounsel]

I guess I got my morning ride in too early......

[Ti Designs]

There are lots of reasons people spend money on things. Slightly fewer reasons if those things happen to be a bike, but still lots of reasons. Quality, function, style... I have very clear opinions about each of these (I'm sure this will make the 11:00 news) but in the end people are free to spend their money as they wish.

And now my opinions:

Quality: Some people demand it, few can really define it. Quality is why Campy users look down on Shimano users (their my opinions...). When I switched from Campy to Shimano I thought the stuff would wear out in a year and I would be back on Campy. It's been almost 20 years... There are lots of examples of how impressions of quality just don't hold up. Take Tiagra 10-speed shifters for example. I sold an $18,000 tandem which used Tiagra 10-speed shifters. Lots of people asked why I would put low end parts on that bike. News flash: Tiagra 10-speed shifters are previous generation Ultegra shifters - nobody was calling them crap when they said Ultegra on them... I think quality is about the ability for something to function well day in, day out, year after year. Countless marketing departments disagree.

Function: I work in a bike shop, my job is to fit people on their bikes. I see the full range, from the least expensive road bike to the most expensive - I really don't much care about the price. I work on the dynamics of riding - how the body weight is supported and which muscle groups are used in the pedal stroke. If they're interested in function, what I'm going over should have them questioning what I'm saying and what they're doing. Some people aren't interested at all - this has nothing to do with the bike...

Style: What you wear or ride says something about you to the people around you. Well sort of... It only says something if they know what you're trying to say. Otherwise that $40,000 time piece on your wrist looks a lot like a $10 timex... Style is a rather vague language, it often says things you're not trying to say. Rapha could say you like high quality clothing or it could say you're an asshole - impossible to know at first glance. Cycling style is (again, my opinion) the worst kind. People talk about style wattage - looking "pro" adds watts. My theory is that style wattage has a very high inflection point, below witch the wattage is negative. If you ride Chris Froome's bike but pedal like Peewee Herman, your style wattage is working against you.


There's an old saying about the guy with the most toys when he (or she) dies. First, when you're dead the toys don't do much good. Second, it's really about playing with the toys...

[Mr. Pink]

Does anybody have a retirement savings account? Seriously.

I have read many times recently that half of all Boomers have zero, zip savings. The Federal Reserve just published a report about a month ago telling us that 47% of Americans would have severe difficulty coming up with 400 dollars (400 bucks!) in an emergency. I know, I know, ain't the demographics here, I suppose, but, the remaining half of the working population isn't really all that much better off. The median retirement savings of the plus 55 crowd is somewhere around 150,000, which, really, isn't jack to live on if you don't have a pension. A good pension. Everybody tapped the home equity a decade ago to buy the new BMW and titanium Serotta, and they'll be in debt for that until the last breath.

I just stopped working at 62 last year. Some use the R word, but, I'm keeping my options open. The one thing I value most is not having to work for somebody else. Freedom. Is that 10,000 dollar bike every three years really worth it? Who's being impressed here? The other wage slaves?

[cinema]

i wudn't even mad that op balked at the woman spending money on a bike. who cares really, i could take it or leave it. prices like that both hurt and keep the bike industry afloat.

what troubled me more was the absurd sexism and general carelessness by which the guy characterized the woman he didn't know. implied she was past her prime probably, wasn't fit enough/····able enough/young enough to own an expensive nice bike.

wouldn't know it but when i was a kid, my mom, a 40 y/o 5'3 pharmacist by day, lifted and rode mountain in her free time and on vacation. an art photographer once did a session with her and her pictures were like on a bunch of gym motivational posters all over the country. she's climbed some of the highest passes in the country and if OP saw her in the store buying her $5k stumpjumper, she just looked like a little 40 y/o jewy woman buying a big boys bike before driving me to soccer practice.

[unterhausen]

Is it winter again already?

the other day, I noticed that the guys that live in Arizona are acting like the rest of us do in the winter.

[fuzzalow]

I was going to add this book to my "must read" list but when I went to my list, it was already there! In some ways we think alike and I look forward to reading it. I'd suggest to you that you read, "Bobos in Paradise".

Brilliant minds read alike. Already read "Bobos in Paradise" way back when it came out.

Depending on the type of town you lived in zip code wise, it pretty much read as less an insight and more an observation. As in any number of towns in NW Washington D.C. (Brooks hometown?) or The North Shore of Long Island already lived and exhibited those bourgeois bohemian tendencies, traits and preferences - all you needed was to be at the right age and arch-point in your career to fit the profile. Whole Foods had been in Manhasset since 1996 (I don't live there anymore) and "Bobo" was published in 2000. I think much of the bobo phenomenon has since diffused into broader society and is not as striking as it was before.

Back to a related comment about the OP topic: I think people have a more sensitive reaction about money now not because of media glorification of bling but because people can feel the pressure in keeping their place in the socio-economic structure. A stratification that is sliding downwards for everyone except those with substantial capital wealth, which I'd estimate at as a minimum net worth greater than $5MM. People either feel threatened or left behind when they see consumption done with apparent ease. Of course, the wild card in the deck is that appearances can be deceiving.

I believe income disparity can undermine a democracy but people will not be unified enough to do anything about it because they will retreat to their own self interest without the ability to see broader implication as to what they choose to act upon. The recent vote taken by Greek citizens on austerity acceptance exemplifies how the average voter cannot fathom economic complexities. I am an optimist but I fear because I don't know that the smart people in politics are working for the citizens anymore.

[dpk501]

It is a shame that people can not be altruistic for the greater good. It's a bigger shame that their governments have allowed this descent.

I think there are many in my generation that don't care about socio-economic status. Besides a couple toys here and there, many of my friends live way within our means and frugally. We count ourselves lucky to able to have a decent life.

That life also allows us to give back. Taking off work, providing free care. It also allows me to buy diapers, goods and foods for various charities every month. Many of us see income disparity and we try to help. I learned this from my parents who sold their dream home in order to keep everyone of their employees on staff during a hard recession. There were lean times all around.

I'm optimistic that people can become unified and see past their own self interests.

Brilliant minds read alike. Already read "Bobos in Paradise" way back when it came out.

Depending on the type of town you lived in zip code wise, it pretty much read as less an insight and more an observation. As in any number of towns in NW Washington D.C. (Brooks hometown?) or The North Shore of Long Island already lived and exhibited those bourgeois bohemian tendencies, traits and preferences - all you needed was to be at the right age and arch-point in your career to fit the profile. Whole Foods had been in Manhasset since 1996 (I don't live there anymore) and "Bobo" was published in 2000. I think much of the bobo phenomenon has since diffused into broader society and is not as striking as it was before.

Back to a related comment about the OP topic: I think people have a more sensitive reaction about money now not because of media glorification of bling but because people can feel the pressure in keeping their place in the socio-economic structure. A stratification that is sliding downwards for everyone except those with substantial capital wealth, which I'd estimate at as a minimum net worth greater than $5MM. People either feel threatened or left behind when they see consumption done with apparent ease. Of course, the wild card in the deck is that appearances can be deceiving.

I believe income disparity can undermine a democracy but people will not be unified enough to do anything about it because they will retreat to their own self interest without the ability to see broader implication as to what they choose to act upon. The recent vote taken by Greek citizens on austerity acceptance exemplifies how the average voter cannot fathom economic complexities. I am an optimist but I fear because I don't know that the smart people in politics are working for the citizens anymore.