American Steel

[alias320]

Last year, I sold my Waterford R-33. It was a nice bike, but it was a custom bike that I got second hand. Could never make the geometry work. A year on, I am missing the ride of steel, and am looking into a new frame. I am looking at something US made with those nice looking big 44mm headtubes (I am tall, so the bigger headtube helps things look proportional). I can usually make off the shelf geometry work for me, so custom isn't a requirement.

Currently, I like the look of the Cielo Road Racer and the Lemond Washoe. In other words, I like steel bikes with big tubes, and a more modern design.

My question for you paceliners is one: anyone have experience with either of these two bikes? If so, what would you say about them?

And two: are there other builders that could make something similar, and in a similar price range ($2300-$2600 for frame and fork) that I ought to consider?

[malcolm]

Jim Kish Kish fabrication does a run of steel bikes "road hog" I know they have a 44m head tube not sure about the others. $1700 with enve fork

http://www.jimkish.com/

[oldpotatoe]

Last year, I sold my Waterford R-33. It was a nice bike, but it was a custom bike that I got second hand. Could never make the geometry work. A year on, I am missing the ride of steel, and am looking into a new frame. I am looking at something US made with those nice looking big 44mm headtubes (I am tall, so the bigger headtube helps things look proportional). I can usually make off the shelf geometry work for me, so custom isn't a requirement.

Currently, I like the look of the Cielo Road Racer and the Lemond Washoe. In other words, I like steel bikes with big tubes, and a more modern design.

My question for you paceliners is one: anyone have experience with either of these two bikes? If so, what would you say about them?

And two: are there other builders that could make something similar, and in a similar price range ($2300-$2600 for frame and fork) that I ought to consider?

Email Sean Walling at SoulCraft. A better small builder there isn't.

[Cameron]

I can't speak to the exact model of Cielo but I can speak to purchasing a frameset from them. I have a Cielo Cross Classic I bought a couple years ago after my Bianchi was stolen.

Really great to deal with. As expected from CK, all my inquiries were answered quickly and professionally, etc. A big bonus was that they told me 60-ish days for delivery after payment. Even better, they called me after 30 days to tell me it was ready, come pick it up.

I've only heard good things about the Cielo Road Racer and can tell you from my experience, buying a Cielo was a great experience and the bike is great. If you can't tell already, my vote is Cielo :beer:

Edit: If you have interest in finding something disc-braked have you considered 44 Bikes? Possibly the Huntsman fits your criteria: http://www.44bikes.com/44bikes_road.html

[choke]

Rock Lobster

[fogrider]

Email Sean Walling at SoulCraft. A better small builder there isn't.

soulcraft would be sweet. Paul at rocklobster does a lot with al (of which I have two) but he also builds a fair amount with steel.

[eddief]

and that there would be many many builders that could duplicate the look and feel for a price in the $2K range. I venture to say even Richard Schwinn could build that bike with one hand tied behind his back. I'd love to see that look filleted by the likes of Steve Rex.

[Macadamia]

seems like there are very few non-custom builders

nobody in the us wants to weld bikes or something?

even rivendell gets all their frames from taiwan

[sjbraun]

Hampsten, you want really big tubes, go with the Max tubeset.

[Ken Robb]

seems like there are very few non-custom builders

nobody in the us wants to weld bikes or something?

even rivendell gets all their frames from taiwan

some Rivs are made by Waterford.

[acorn_user]

There is a new Marinoni Piuma Supreme made from the new Columbus HSS tube set. Might be worth a look, and would probably come at well below your price estimate.

[alias320]

The Kish looks cool. Top tube may be a bit short for me, but I suppose I could throw a long stem on there. I may follow up with that. Does Hampsten have the 44mm headtube? Perhaps it's an option, but the bikes on their site look to have the standard headtube diameter.

[ctcyclistbob]

This custom American builder directory is pretty good; it's dated 2 years ago so it's maybe not completely up to date but there are lots of builders listed:

http://cyclophiliac.com/american-custom-handmade-road-bike-frame-builders/

[berserk87]

Rock Lobster

Dang it! You beat me to it.

Their pricing is pretty decent, too.

[93legendti]

Carl Strong
Scott Quirring
Curtlo
Bedford

[Peter P.]

I'll second both Rock Lobster and Soulcraft.

I'm fortunate to own a mountainbike frame from Paul Sadoff at Rock Lobster, and a road frame from Sean Walling at Soulcraft.

Both were very easy to work with although Paul seems more flexible in things like choosing headtube diameter, and tube choices. Nevertheless, both offer reasonable pricing and sound, quality construction.

[reggiebaseball]

First, in my personal opinion steel as a material does not merit 44mm "Baseball bat" sized HT.

There are a number of builders using oversize tubing, but still far from 44mm. I think 44mm is a standard developed by "weaker" materials like carbon and AL, that is total overkill (and added mass) in a steel frame. I think a good steel builder would listen to your request and gently guide you to a non-44mm HT in steel.

However, the heart wants what the heart wants.

Those two frames you mention (Cielo and LeMond) have different geometries, and I think you should let that be your guide between these and other brands.
The Cielo has too steep a seat tube in the larger sizes IMO, the Lemond would be better for me.

Both Feature PF30 BB which suck IMO, they are another feature commonly seen in carbon bikes and often lamented by their owners (for creaking). Steel begs for a simple threaded BB.

[jghall]

First, in my personal opinion steel as a material does not merit 44mm "Baseball bat" sized HT.BB.

If with Reggie on this one. Big guy here myself. Latest steel frame is oversized Spirit tubing and is plenty.

[fogrider]

another steel builder to consider: mikkelsen

[doomridesout]

I took delivery of a Rock Lobster cross bike in steel just about three months ago now, and it's really superb. It might be the honeymoon period, but Paul makes a damn fine bike at a great price.

[alias320]

Great suggestions! I'll follow up on these.

[simonov]

Another vote for Rock Lobster. Fantastic bike for the money (for any money really). At the range you listed there are plenty of other options. I think you could even get a wet paint, welded Zanconato with frame and fork.

[malcolm]

The Kish looks cool. Top tube may be a bit short for me, but I suppose I could throw a long stem on there. I may follow up with that. Does Hampsten have the 44mm headtube? Perhaps it's an option, but the bikes on their site look to have the standard headtube diameter.

If you are remotely interested you should give him a call. One man shop, very decent guy, builds a great bike.

[Neil]

First, in my personal opinion steel as a material does not merit 44mm "Baseball bat" sized HT.

There are a number of builders using oversize tubing, but still far from 44mm. I think 44mm is a standard developed by "weaker" materials like carbon and AL, that is total overkill (and added mass) in a steel frame. I think a good steel builder would listen to your request and gently guide you to a non-44mm HT in steel.

However, the heart wants what the heart wants.

Those two frames you mention (Cielo and LeMond) have different geometries, and I think you should let that be your guide between these and other brands.
The Cielo has too steep a seat tube in the larger sizes IMO, the Lemond would be better for me.

Both Feature PF30 BB which suck IMO, they are another feature commonly seen in carbon bikes and often lamented by their owners (for creaking). Steel begs for a simple threaded BB.

I think that depends on what your goals are, if they are to maintain a classic look then I agree, if you are trying to make the best modern road bike that you can, then I'd go with the 44mm from Paragon Machine Works, or the Columbus tapered head tube.

[velomonkey]

First, in my personal opinion steel as a material does not merit 44mm "Baseball bat" sized HT.


I think that's a fair assessment: till you try one. I am 6'3" 200 and when Kevin designed my firefly he did the 44mm head tube and 1 inch stays. I was on a bunch of bikes prior but only one or 2 with tapered forks and 44mm HT. While waiting for the firefly I rode a CAAD 9: a traditional HT and a bike I always thought was 'stiff-enough' in the front.

I'm sold on 44mm HT (for the right rider). The front end is plenty stiff and corners are awesome - hard efforts I feel it in the rear before the front for sure. If you're the right size and right rider it works - talk with the builder and listen to them, but I would say 44m HT on metal bikes is not some gimmick to keep pace with marketing on mass produced carbon bikes.

Oh and press fit BBs or non-threaded BBs - I think some builders migrate to these as they are easier to build with (the bigger diameter is easier to work with when welding together a bunch of other tubes). I'm not sold on those - I ride dales BB30 crank which is a stiffer crank for sure, but I think threaded BBs and standard cranks are actually a better solution.

[alias320]

I will freely admit that the merits both in favor of the 44mm headtube (modern, stiffer front end, etc) and against (unnecessary) in my mind take a back seat to aesthetics. My chief complaint with the R-33 (aside from the geometry, which as I said was not custom to me in the first place) was the spindly 21cm headtube. If I rode a 56cm, then everything would probably look nicely in place. I know this doesn't fit the form is function idea of cycling, but I find that when the form looks great, the cycling is that much more enjoyable (this of course is 100% psychological of course). I sent an email to Kish, and I will look into Rock Lobster since, at least in this thread, it is an overwhelming suggestion. Thanks!

[scrubadub]

Another vote for Mike Zanconato.

[Neil]

If you use a MAX top tube and a Spirit downtube they both mate to a 44mm head tube very nicely (in my opinion, of course):

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10687035_383670411799856_7288132320122195473_n.jpg ?oh=e85ab83bda04e8184ab60dedf639ea76&oe=567F9720

[RedRider]

You didn't indicate where you live but there are probably a few local framebuilders that would appreciate your business...

No. 22, based in Johnstown, NY would certainly do a great job.
K. Bedford Customs, also Upstate NY
Mosaic, in Boulder, CO.
Alchemy, Denver, CO.

The list of US framebuilders is actually very long... these are just a couple that I can endorse from experience.

[alias320]

I'm near Chicago. I've checked out all of those builders, but their frames, while great looking, are a bit too rich for me. Thats for the recs, though!

[alias320]

Also, those Talbot frames are exactly the aesthetic I'm looking for. They look great!

[Jim9112]

I can't speak to the exact model of Cielo but I can speak to purchasing a frameset from them. I have a Cielo Cross Classic I bought a couple years ago after my Bianchi was stolen.

Really great to deal with. As expected from CK, all my inquiries were answered quickly and professionally, etc. A big bonus was that they told me 60-ish days for delivery after payment. Even better, they called me after 30 days to tell me it was ready, come pick it up.

I've only heard good things about the Cielo Road Racer and can tell you from my experience, buying a Cielo was a great experience and the bike is great. If you can't tell already, my vote is Cielo :beer:

Edit: If you have interest in finding something disc-braked have you considered 44 Bikes? Possibly the Huntsman fits your criteria: http://www.44bikes.com/44bikes_road.html


I have a 44 huntsman fantastic bike and a fantastic builder to work with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alias320]

Anyone have any thoughts on Stinner Cycles? Seems to fit my aesthetic interests. Any help is of course greatly appreciated, thanks!

[DRZRM]

+1 on a TIG'ed Zanconato. I'm not sure he does 44 HT, but he may.

[alexstar]

It sounds like you've got this covered but I'll just chime in for Rock Lobster. I had Paul build me a steel mountain bike with a 44mm headtube and he did a great job. His years of experience building and racing bikes are apparent. He's a true professional. Highly recommended.

[cv1966]

Buddy of mine just took delivery of a Cielo Road Racer with Campy Chorus. I was surprised since he loved his carbon Pinarello road and TT bikes. After a couple weeks of riding the Cielo he loves it. He is tall, 6'6", and loves the geo and the ride.

[keppler]

I had Joe DePaemelaere (Primus Mootry) build me my first steel road bike frame (with steel fork), which I got last summer. I'm 5'11" and weigh 195 lbs. He built it mostly with True Temper Platinum OX (Oversize) tubing. Most of the tubing is the same size as my Aluminum road bike. He purposely built a taller head tube as he doesn't like spacers, so it's the same height as both my other bikes with the spacers. I got a custom fit and sent him the specs, plus photos of me on my carbon bike (on a trainer). From there we talked geometry and fit. He was very accommodating and always responded quickly.

The bike rides great. It's super smooth on rough roads and still very stiff with a standard sized head tube and BB for sprints and climbs. I ride it a lot, and prefer it over both my carbon and aluminum bikes.

Cost-wise he's cheaper for a full custom steel frame and steel fork than what you have listed. Plus he allowed me to design my own lettering and paint scheme, at no charge.

[tv_vt]

Hampsten, you want really big tubes, go with the Max tubeset.

Definitely second Hampsten. Gran Paradiso steel frame for $2900, custom built for you.

[William]

This custom American builder directory is pretty good; it's dated 2 years ago so it's maybe not completely up to date but there are lots of builders listed:

http://cyclophiliac.com/american-custom-handmade-road-bike-frame-builders/


Yeah, you might find a couple here as well...

Custom Frame builder's by State/Country (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=113817)






William

[William]

Anyone have any thoughts on Stinner Cycles? Seems to fit my aesthetic interests. Any help is of course greatly appreciated, thanks!

If you hadn't seen it yet...

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=134144


If you had, then never mind. :)







William

[bewheels]

Here you go...
$2k
Brand new IF steel
From the factory
Of course it has to fit...

http://ifbikes.com/store/index.php/all-gear/steel-crown-jewel.html

[etu]

Erik Rolf at Alliance Bicycles
Easily fits your budget

[zap]

Comotion.

[Gabuyo]

My Stoemper Taylor was $2300 shipped to my door for frame and fork. Made from True Temper S3.

http://www.pedalroom.com/p/stoemper-taylor-14-19839_10.jpg

[zap]

My Stoemper Taylor was $2300 shipped to my door for frame and fork. Made from True Temper S3.

http://www.pedalroom.com/p/stoemper-taylor-14-19839_10.jpg

Nice looking bike.