Poor Horner

[Jgrooms]

Nobody will work with him...

I don't believe this will help much?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-44-years-old-and-theyre-still-afraid-of-me/

[ColnagoFan]

Every interview with him is seemingly all about how he is so great, people should want him at all the races, he "doesn't need" that USA Pro Challenge on his resume, etc etc etc.

Nothing about the rest of the team, the young guys he's supposed to be "mentoring." They would kill for the opportunity at any of these races.

And when I found out he was making $250k in salary, and the rest of the team wasn't being paid anything? Last straw. People like him and Tommy D need to be gone so the next generation has a clear path ahead of them.

[azrider]

My reaction every time he opens his mouth

[Shortsocks]

Gotta say. That Kinda sucks for the Sponsors and his Team-mates. They put out a lot of cash to get him on there, would have been a good opportunity for those kids to get some nice pro level know-how.

[peanutgallery]

250k is like the payroll for several teams anymore.

Lots of dough for the races they do

Every interview with him is seemingly all about how he is so great, people should want him at all the races, he "doesn't need" that USA Pro Challenge on his resume, etc etc etc.

Nothing about the rest of the team, the young guys he's supposed to be "mentoring." They would kill for the opportunity at any of these races.

And when I found out he was making $250k in salary, and the rest of the team wasn't being paid anything? Last straw. People like him and Tommy D need to be gone so the next generation has a clear path ahead of them.

[Jgrooms]

Me thinks A/S's plan to bring Horner on as an in to ToC & USPro might have backfired due to belief he's 'damaged goods'?

[saab2000]

I think it's a real shame he and his team weren't invited to the Tour of California or the Colorado race. He won the freaking Vuelta a couple years ago and last year finished in the top 20 of the Tour de France. The guy can still ride and he is a crowd draw, like it or not. Inviting a bunch of unknown teams doesn't help the stature of either race.

AFAIK, Chris Horner's name has not been linked to any of the scandals of the past decade so to associate him with Tom Danielson isn't really fair either.

Just my $.02

[FlashUNC]

Gotta say. That Kinda sucks for the Sponsors and his Team-mates. They put out a lot of cash to get him on there, would have been a good opportunity for those kids to get some nice pro level know-how.

Yet it was completely predictable. He's looking for one last payday. Nobody wants to go near him given his rather....unique...Vuelta win.

Of course he'd be damaged goods.

[Jgrooms]

And when I found out he was making $250k in salary, and the rest of the team wasn't being paid anything? Last straw. People like him and Tommy D need to be gone so the next generation has a clear path ahead of them.


No kidding? Boy I bet the dynamics amongst the team are just peachy!

[cloudguy]

But, but, but, he loves to eat fast-food, just like me. Plus, he does share his R/V with his team (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/horner-lends-personal-rv-to-team-airgas-safeway-at-tour-of-utah/), so he's not completely selfish. On that note, I bet his R/V has all kinds of nifty little secret cabinets for hiding stuff. :rolleyes:

[mtechnica]

I don't get the hate on Horner. Guy just wants to race his bike, he's good at it but he isn't taken seriously.

[Jgrooms]

No hate here. He's just his own worst enemy here imo. Maybe calling others out, he thinks will change situation.

With TD getting popped & new gen tired of the old dopers, possibly they wish he - as a rumored doper - would just go away?

[FlashUNC]

I don't get the hate on Horner. Guy just wants to race his bike, he's good at it but he isn't taken seriously.

At $250k a year, I'm a sure lot of people would "just want to race their bike."

[Bstone]

He's a cocky little *ucker, but that's his best quality.

That, and the fact that he's a super freak.

[mtechnica]

At $250k a year, I'm a sure lot of people would "just want to race their bike."

But he's one of the fastest American bike racers, why is that such an outlandish salary? If he was 10 years younger with the same fitness he would be racing in Europe.

[saab2000]

But he's one of the fastest American bike racers, why is that such an outlandish salary? If he was 10 years younger with the same fitness he would be racing in Europe.

He was racing in Europe ten years ago with the same fitness. He was racing in Europe last year with the same fitness. He won the Vuelta just two years ago and just last year finished in the top 20 in the Tour. It's not like he's some newbie. He's been racing at the highest level of the sport for like 15+ years.

[aramis]

At $250k a year, I'm a sure lot of people would "just want to race their bike."

$250k seems like really ····ty salary to be a top level bike racer.

I wouldn't put up with all that crap for $250k.

[KWalker]

I think it's a real shame he and his team weren't invited to the Tour of California or the Colorado race. He won the freaking Vuelta a couple years ago and last year finished in the top 20 of the Tour de France. The guy can still ride and he is a crowd draw, like it or not. Inviting a bunch of unknown teams doesn't help the stature of either race.

AFAIK, Chris Horner's name has not been linked to any of the scandals of the past decade so to associate him with Tom Danielson isn't really fair either.

Just my $.02
Name one thing he has done since the Vuelta other than gain weight and not record significant results?

Lets not forget its widely rumored that he was Rider #15 in the USADA report. Its been hinted at by almost a dozen pros in interviews over the years. Every single person that I have ever spoken to that has raced with or against him has had nothing but negative things to say about the guy with regards to personality and doping. Its not just age, its that most people don't believe he is or ever was clean. A ticking time bomb. IIRC his bio passport from the Vuelta and before/from is still under review, but I believe the WADA tech that was heading the review left the agency so who knows when we will see the results of that.

The guy rode for a ···· ton of notoriously dirty teams- Saturn, Mercury, Saunier Duval, Radio Shack, Lotto, etc.

[Anarchist]

$250k seems like really ï½·ï½·ï½·ï½·ty salary to be a top level bike racer.

I wouldn't put up with all that crap for $250k.

This is a guy who didn't finish school and has no education or training or skills to do anything other than sit on his bike.

THis is the high water mark for him.

[bcroslin]

I don't get the hate on Horner. Guy just wants to race his bike, he's good at it but he isn't taken seriously.

Agreed. If you hate Horner than you ought to hate every guy in the peloton. They're all type-A jerks when push-comes-to-shove.

[saab2000]

Name one thing he has done since the Vuelta other than gain weight and not record significant results?

Lets not forget its widely rumored that he was Rider #15 in the USADA report. Its been hinted at by almost a dozen pros in interviews over the years. Every single person that I have ever spoken to that has raced with or against him has had nothing but negative things to say about the guy with regards to personality and doping. Its not just age, its that most people don't believe he is or ever was clean. A ticking time bomb. IIRC his bio passport from the Vuelta and before/from is still under review, but I believe the WADA tech that was heading the review left the agency so who knows when we will see the results of that.

The guy rode for a ï½·ï½·ï½·ï½· ton of notoriously dirty teams- Saturn, Mercury, Saunier Duval, Radio Shack, Lotto, etc.



Well, I did. He finished top 20 in the TdF last year after a serious accident leading up to the Giro, keeping out of racing for a few weeks.

I don't know about his past really. 'Long rumored' is nothing more than long rumored. Show us the facts. I'll eat my words if they show him to be part of that history. So far, they haven't.

PS - I'm not naive. His generation is as bad as it gets. I get that. But they haven't really pinned him down yet. I'm pulling for him and I think he does well in this race but doesn't win. He moved up one spot today. Tomorrow is an important stage.

[mtechnica]

He was racing in Europe ten years ago with the same fitness. He was racing in Europe last year with the same fitness. He won the Vuelta just two years ago and just last year finished in the top 20 in the Tour. It's not like he's some newbie. He's been racing at the highest level of the sport for like 15+ years.

That's my point

[Jgrooms]

Soon we shall see if fearing him is justified. I hope the old dude rips it one more time.

I'm all in for drop outs and the generally uneducated. Cheesewhiz can ya be more judgmentally self righteous?

[odin99]

why would they want to work with a guy with a 250k salary? a salary that high for him doesn't help them.

[don compton]

If all you're going to talk about is doping, why bother?

[choke]

I don't get the hate on Horner. Guy just wants to race his bike, he's good at it but he isn't taken seriously.And I've never understood the Horner love...:confused:

[jimoots]

Well, I did. He finished top 20 in the TdF last year after a serious accident leading up to the Giro, keeping out of racing for a few weeks.

I don't know about his past really. 'Long rumored' is nothing more than long rumored. Show us the facts. I'll eat my words if they show him to be part of that history. So far, they haven't.

PS - I'm not naive. His generation is as bad as it gets. I get that. But they haven't really pinned him down yet. I'm pulling for him and I think he does well in this race but doesn't win. He moved up one spot today. Tomorrow is an important stage.

I don't know much about his past either, but IMHO I think the proof is in the pudding. If he was seen as legit in the peleton, he'd have a contract.

Not good enough to convict, I know, but it's just important to remember that there's lots of information swirling around that as laypeople we're just not privvy to.

(Don't get me wrong. I don't care so much about doping or what not. I accept it exists and try not to cast moral judgements about it. Plus it's kind of a dull and depressing subject these days.)

[acorn_user]

Anyone who can do this is pretty cool in my book.

http://thisisswift.com/chris-horner-gives-fallen-rider-and-bike-a-2k-ride-to-the-finish/

[CunegoFan]

I don't know much about his past either, but IMHO I think the proof is in the pudding. If he was seen as legit in the peleton, he'd have a contract.


He has a contract for $250K, which is a lot more than can be expected for a 44-year-old rider who has a tendency to get sick and injured then miss a substantial part of the season. How many 44-year-old riders do you think have contracts with World Tour teams?

[KWalker]

If all you're going to talk about is doping, why bother?

Well he's also an outspoken tool that uses his friends at VN to try and sell his tactics book(not even written by him) and get him some publicity during contract renewal time. He talks himself up a lot these days and it just looks desperate and vein.

Anyone that can't connect the dots is just being naive. Sucks that Frischkorn was too scared to name him directly.

The dude hasn't featured in a single race this year. Even last year with Lampre he was never with the lead group on a decisive climbing finish. Yet the year before that he was outclimbing guys winning LBL and the Tour?

[CunegoFan]

The dude hasn't featured in a single race this year. Even last year with Lampre he was never with the lead group on a decisive climbing finish. Yet the year before that he was outclimbing guys winning LBL and the Tour?

That was just a matter of waiting until the preservatives in the Chicken McNuggets kicked in.

[earlfoss]

He's got more experience and success than 99% of his competition at the Tour of Utah will ever have. He can say what he wants and that's fine with me. He may sound cocky but he's usually right and doesn't care much for tact.

Many of the kids on the Hincapie team, Axeon, Jelly Belly will all be back in school or working some job and riding as an amateur before Horner's career is over. The pro team structure promotes these "development teams" which is good but also puts a pretty early expiration date on pros who aren't performing at the top of their game at age 25 or 26 (I forget where that cutoff is).

I'm certain that Horner is right about them being scared of him along with a suspicion that they are also not working with him because of his "rider 15" status. That "rider 15" thing is just a cop out to cover their fear that he's going to wipe the floor with him. None of it will matter once they get on the climbs. If he's having a good day they will be minutes back.

[labratmatt]

He's got more experience and success than 99% of his competition at the Tour of Utah will ever have.

Yup. I don't get all the Horner hate. He's old, likely a doper/ex doper, but he is the big fish at the ToU. He is THE watched rider, just like Quintana and Froome were in the Tour.

And, I call bullsh|t on the zero salary for his teammates thing. Isn't there some minimum salary that all continental pros make? It's tiny, but it's much bigger than $0.

[cloudguy]

I doubt they'd be as "afraid" of him, if they thought he was riding on McDonalds alone. I'm sure he has lot of "experience" in training and race preparation, just like Tummy D.

[George Ab]

Count me as a Horner fan. Glad he was able to get that salary... good on ya. He brings excitement and fans to the Tour of Utah. He cuts to the chase when interviewed; and tells it like it is.

[KonaSS]

Sorry there are no rules regarding compensation for continental teams. I am sure most or all are riding for free. This is the land of dreamers and couch surfers. Read Phil Gaimon's book.

And I would gladly race my bike for $250k a year. :banana: Can't imagine the bs they put up with is that different than any other paying gig.

[oldpotatoe]

Yup. I don't get all the Horner hate. He's old, likely a doper/ex doper, but he is the big fish at the ToU. He is THE watched rider, just like Quintana and Froome were in the Tour.

And, I call bullsh|t on the zero salary for his teammates thing. Isn't there some minimum salary that all continental pros make? It's tiny, but it's much bigger than $0.

Me too. As a bike racer and interviewee, he is light years more interesting than say TJ(yawn). I looked up his 2014 salary and it's about $30k on the site I found. The others on the team do get paid. Ya know, Froomie gets paid more than Porte too. He is good for that team, he is good for the JV 'pro' bike racing here in the US. As much as some would like a 'grand tour' here in the US, it won't happen. Not enough $, place is too big, 'spectators' would rather watch Golf.

[marciero]

He cuts to the chase when interviewed; and tells it like it is.

Liked his remarks and insights in that documentary about USPRO in Philly. Colorful career- domestic pro, struggling continental pro, back to the states where he dominated, back to Europe, this time with success.

[Joachim]

Yup. I don't get all the Horner hate. He's old, likely a doper/ex doper, but he is the big fish at the ToU. He is THE watched rider, just like Quintana and Froome were in the Tour.

And, I call bullsh|t on the zero salary for his teammates thing. Isn't there some minimum salary that all continental pros make? It's tiny, but it's much bigger than $0.

World Tour team riders have minimum salary requirements. Continental teams? Not so much.

[sparky33]

I spend 0 minutes of the day having an opinion about Horner other than being pleased that there are some pro athletes that are still older than I am.

[JStonebarger]

[Horner] can say what he wants and that's fine with me. He may sound cocky but he's usually right and doesn't care much for tact.

+1. Horner can pick apart a race, and he's usually blunt about it. I love it.

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/hornerbeard-620.jpg

As for Horner being a likely doper, who of his generation didn't ride for "notoriously dirty teams?" To me Horner never quite seemed "one of the boys." He didn't fit in with FdJ his first time in Europe. He was on LA's bad side for a while after publicly mocking the startling success of Postal's team program. Granted he spent a couple quiet years with the "reformed" Radio Shack team, but that seemed like the desperate price for a ride.

Hopefully Horner will end up commentating somewhere -- I think he'd be great at it -- but not before dropping a few scared kids in Utah.

[bobswire]

+1. Horner can pick apart a race, and he's usually blunt about it. I love it.



As for Horner being a likely doper, who of his generation didn't ride for "notoriously dirty teams?" To me Horner never quite seemed "one of the boys." He didn't fit in with FdJ his first time in Europe. He was on LA's bad side for a while after publicly mocking the startling success of Postal's team program. Granted he spent a couple quiet years with the "reformed" Radio Shack team, but that seemed like the desperate price for a ride.

Hopefully Horner will end up commentating somewhere -- I think he'd be great at it -- but not before dropping a few scared kids in Utah.

This, my thoughts exactly.

[velomonkey]

I really liked the guy from his early days on nurtra fig at tour du pont and his frank talk when he had a wicked mouth on him and talked crap about Lance. There is a cycling news interview from like ten years ago and he really said some great stuff.

Then he got into the Lance party and completely walked it all back.

I can't ever get behind that with anyone, the vuelta win was borderline rubbing it everyone's face. Basically, at this point I'm nonplussed.

[berserk87]

Horner never ceases to give an honest, entertaining interview. Of late they do seem to be bloated with sour grapes/sweet lemon stuff.

A few years back I thought that he was easily the best interview in the pro peloton. Nice but not politically correct necessarily. He would actually say things during an interview, whereas a lot of pro athletes give some sort of wishy-washy, generic, non-statement.

[ColnagoFan]

Horner never ceases to give an honest, entertaining interview. Of late they do seem to be bloated with sour grapes/sweet lemon stuff.

A few years back I thought that he was easily the best interview in the pro peloton. Nice but not politically correct necessarily. He would actually say things during an interview, whereas a lot of pro athletes give some sort of wishy-washy, generic, non-statement.

This. Agree. Now it's just bitter berries when he opens his mouth. Like he thinks he's so far above the rest of the peloton he's racing with. And maybe he was, he did win a grand tour, I'll give him them, but there is such a thing being a sore winner.

[redir]

Nothing he said was sour grapes or bitter it's just a good old fashion ribbing. If you want to get people to work with you then you have to talk shiz and that's all he's doing... Come on boys come and get this old man.

I think you paceliners in general give almost every pro cyclist a hard time for reasons that are beyond me. Lampre-Merida's didn't re-up his contract even though general manager, Brent Copeland, believed that he could still finish in the top ten of a Grand Tour the next year. To say he has no results is silly, sorry but it's true. 17th in the tour even while sick and other notable results. He got hit by car for Chrisake. Even so some riders go on their whole career with no results but are still valuable to the team.

I really don't understand you guys that bash him and so many others here. This guy and guys like him are the best of the best even if they no longer get results, which is not the case with Horner, their palmares are a laundry list of accomplishments that would be the desire of any young rider.

[Jgrooms]

Nothing he said was sour grapes or bitter it's just a good old fashion ribbing. If you want to get people to work with you then you have to talk shiz and that's all he's doing... Come on boys come and get this old man.



I think you paceliners in general give almost every pro cyclist a hard time for reasons that are beyond me. Lampre-Merida's didn't re-up his contract even though general manager, Brent Copeland, believed that he could still finish in the top ten of a Grand Tour the next year. To say he has no results is silly, sorry but it's true. 17th in the tour even while sick and other notable results. He got hit by car for Chrisake. Even so some riders go on their whole career with no results but are still valuable to the team.



I really don't understand you guys that bash him and so many others here. This guy and guys like him are the best of the best even if they no longer get results, which is not the case with Horner, their palmares are a laundry list of accomplishments that would be the desire of any young rider.


Because he is skinny!

[azrider]

Horner was heard saying "I got them right where I want them....." as his soigneur peeled him off the pavement.

http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2015/08/08/1/15toustge5010_670.jpg

[thwart]

Horner was heard saying "I got them right where I want them....." as his soigneur peeled him off the pavement.


That's a little over the top.

He didn't have the legs to go with Dombrowski today, but then again nobody did.

[azrider]

That's a little over the top.

He didn't have the legs to go with Dombrowski today, but then again nobody did.

You're kidding right? If you can't see the humor in that picture after being quoted as saying "44 years old and they're still afraid of me" then I just can't help ya :p

[Jgrooms]

Horner was heard saying "I got them right where I want them....." as his soigneur peeled him off the pavement.



http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2015/08/08/1/15toustge5010_670.jpg


That's great! Old dude digging deep & having fun with it.

[FlashUNC]

Nothing he said was sour grapes or bitter it's just a good old fashion ribbing. If you want to get people to work with you then you have to talk shiz and that's all he's doing... Come on boys come and get this old man.

I think you paceliners in general give almost every pro cyclist a hard time for reasons that are beyond me. Lampre-Merida's didn't re-up his contract even though general manager, Brent Copeland, believed that he could still finish in the top ten of a Grand Tour the next year. To say he has no results is silly, sorry but it's true. 17th in the tour even while sick and other notable results. He got hit by car for Chrisake. Even so some riders go on their whole career with no results but are still valuable to the team.

I really don't understand you guys that bash him and so many others here. This guy and guys like him are the best of the best even if they no longer get results, which is not the case with Horner, their palmares are a laundry list of accomplishments that would be the desire of any young rider.

Mostly just because he's super shady on the doping thing.

Oldest ever to win a Grand Tour? Really? That doesn't raise any red flags?