Trying to lose weight, how many calories to replace after rides?

[MattTuck]

Is there a generally accepted guideline for what percentage of a ride's energy expenditure you should replace?

I'm currently shooting at 1370 calories per day. But on days that I ride, I can burn up to another 500-1500 calories.

Curious how much of that I should be adding to my daily intake.

[Tony T]

Some of the weight loss could be due to de-hydration.
Today it's 90°, weighed myself, ate a bagel, rode 35 miles, drank 2 bottles of water, and lost 3lbs on the ride, almost all from de-hydration.

Do you eat while riding?

[MattTuck]

I should say, I WANT to lose weight.

The 1370 is what I should be eating to lose 2 pounds a week. I usually end up eating closer to 1500 calories.

I feel like if I burn 1500 on a ride, that I should replace some significant amount of that or I'd be at a serious calorie deficit that may affect performance/energy levels in the days following.

On the other hand, I don't want to replace all 1500 if it will help my with the weight loss.

[KonaSS]

It sounds like you are on the counting calorie game, which can work well.

I assume you picked your 1370 goal based on a deficit from your basal metabolic rate.

The simple math is if you burn an additional 500 from your workout, you can eat 500 more calories to maintain a consistent calorie deficit.

The slightly more advanced method is to reduce your BMR because you were exercising for 1.5 of those 24 hours and then add in the increase from exercise, but I live the the "good enuff" motto so stick with the first calculation.

2 pounds in a week is alot. I wouldn't increase your deficit with exercise. Just maintain it.

[MattTuck]

It sounds like you are on the counting calorie game, which can work well.

I assume you picked your 1370 goal based on a deficit from your basal metabolic rate.

The simple math is if you burn an additional 500 from your workout, you can eat 500 more calories to maintain a consistent calorie deficit.

The slightly more advanced method is to reduce your BMR because you were exercising for 1.5 of those 24 hours and then add in the increase from exercise, but I live the the "good enuff" motto so stick with the first calculation.

2 pounds in a week is alot. I wouldn't increase your deficit with exercise. Just maintain it.

Ok, so try to replace 100% of calories burned with exercise. I presume ice cream frappes are the preferred calorie replenishment method? ;)

[Tony T]

Ok, so try to replace 100% of calories burned with exercise. I presume ice cream frappes are the preferred calorie replenishment method? ;)

Only with whipped cream and a cherry on top :)

[Lewis Moon]

Ok, so try to replace 100% of calories burned with exercise. I presume ice cream frappes are the preferred calorie replenishment method? ;)

I know this is readily apparent to everyone, but it's always good to have it reiterated: it's not just calories you burn. Because you're trimming calories, you'll have less "room" in your diet for stuff you need to repair the damage. Eat accordingly.

[azrider]

Debunking the Calorie Myth: Why "Calories in Calories out" is wrong.

http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/


Steve Tilford wrote something very similar saying it doesn't matter where you get your nutrition from, and to eat whatever the hell you want.

Just food for thought. (no pun) :p

[makoti]

Ok, so try to replace 100% of calories burned with exercise. I presume ice cream frappes are the preferred calorie replenishment method? ;)

Stay away from these: Milky Buns (ok, I know this isn't helping, but....)
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/move-over-cronut-meet-milky-bun-men-who-made-it-n391041

[jmal]

I would not do anything different for a 1500 calorie ride. Just eat as you normally would on your current regimen. It will speed your weight loss and will not have much if any impact on your performance. I do this all the time and notice no ill effect on subsequent rides. On longer days where I burn 3000+ calories I definitely refuel, but I'm not scientific about it.

[cloudguy]

This is thoroughly depressing and suggests you may be overestimating the amount of calories your body actually needs:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/28/why-the-most-popular-rule-of-weight-loss-is-completely-wrong/

[cdn_bacon]

but look for the lean proteins instead. So you sub fat for muscle.

you can also try and supplement with CLA and L-carnitine.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/11-super-side-effects-from-taking-l-carnitine.html

worked for me didn't really change my diet. Tried to put more proteins in and riding the trainer for about 45 mins/day

[phcollard]

I thought that when you exercise your metabolic rate goes up even for hours after the workout. So you are still burning so calories from exercise even when you crash on the couch two hours after your ride. Do they count?

Also I am really not an expert but isn't 1370 calories per day a very low number? I thought moderately active men were at like 2500 calories per day to maintain the status quo?

[makoti]

I read through some of the links folks have been providing. Interesting stuff, for sure. This calculator may help you: http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/weight-control/body-weight-planner/Pages/bwp.aspx
From NIH, so should be pretty good.

[MattTuck]

makoti, yes, I played with that also. There are some assumptions in there with regard to body fat %.

phil, that gets to the heart of my question. I'm pretty much sedentary at work. so my real activity is cycling and any other activity that I do. On days when I exercise, I'd say that 2700 is reasonable. On days that I don't, I'd say it is not so reasonable.

I like the idea of not replacing unless it was a big ride.

Also, I am suspicious of any website touting the benefits of something (L-carnitine for example) while at the same time offering it for sale.

[stephenmarklay]

I would not go that myself. Your cycling will suffer you will become miserable too. You may bounce back after.

Although, none of that is 100% true.

What is working for me is moderation. I am looking at dropping 15 more and I have lost 10.

I looked and my known diet weaknesses, and things I knew were not going to change and modified things based on behavior.

I am not feeling deprived but I am losing. I also just did a hard century was strong (although I had an unrelated cramping problem).

[Louis]

I would not do anything different for a 1500 calorie ride. Just eat as you normally would on your current regimen. It will speed your weight loss and will not have much if any impact on your performance.

+1

I'm no expert, but I'd think that if you're trying to loose weight then you should eat less, whether you're exercising or not.

Compensating for exercise by eating all the calories you expended seems like the wrong way to go. The point is to burn more than you take in, not to keep that constant.

[daker13]

Matt, I'm not an expert, but I think 2 lbs a week is way too much, especially if you're active. 1370 is a pretty low number of calories.

You might be better off eating reasonably for the summer and your riding season, and cutting calories when you're not as active. Personally, I find exercise/undernourishment very difficult to handle, but some people don't have a problem with it.

[SlackMan]

Matt, this doesn't answer your direct question, but I just wanted to share something I did recently. It's called a "fasting mimicking diet." (read about it here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/11686002/Why-weve-all-been-doing-the-Fast-Diet-wrong.html)). It's based on well-conducted research using randomized trials.

Although I did it mostly for non-weight loss health reasons (reduces risks of cancer, diabetes, and heart disease), I found that I also lost six pounds, starting from 178 lbs. The diet lasts for only five days. Now, I want to try to drop another six pounds over another five days. I plan to wait about a month, and then do it again. If I can lose another six pounds the second time, that will put me down to a competitive weight I had many years ago. For me, toughing it out for five days every few months is much easier than doing low calories every day.

[phcollard]

Matt, this doesn't answer your direct question, but I just wanted to share something I did recently. It's called a "fasting mimicking diet." (read about it here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/11686002/Why-weve-all-been-doing-the-Fast-Diet-wrong.html)). It's based on well-conducted research using randomized trials.

Although I did it mostly for non-weight loss health reasons (reduces risks of cancer, diabetes, and heart disease), I found that I also lost six pounds, starting from 178 lbs. The diet lasts for only five days. Now, I want to try to drop another six pounds over another five days. I plan to wait about a month, and then do it again. If I can lose another six pounds the second time, that will put me down to a competitive weight I had many years ago. For me, toughing it out for five days every few months is much easier than doing low calories every day.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this.

My question is when did you lose that 6 pounds and what happened afterwards? I would be concerned that I follow this five day diet, drop 6 pounds, and gain them back immediately afterwards when I resume eating normally. Thoughts?

Oh and did you keep exercising during the diet? Like commute on your bike?

[Tony T]

1370 does seem low for a daily intake.
Be sure you have food with you when you ride, you don't want to "bonk"

[John H.]

What is your height, weight, age, and general level of activity (other than cycling).
My guess is that you are shooting way to low in terms of the calorie goal.
Live by simple dietary rules that work whether or not you are trying to lose weight.
Fuel before, during and after exercise.
Eat good proteins, fats, and carbs. A processed fat is as bad as processed sugar. Many packaged goods or baked goods are the trifecta- processed fats, processed flour and processed sugar.
If you are going to cut carbs anywhere it should be in the evening meal. Focus on plant based foods and good proteins.
In terms of how much to eat after riding? When do you you ride?
If it is morning you might need a recovery drink or equal (protein and carbs) plus a small carb rich snack- this should hold until lunch.
If you finish riding near a meal time- make the meal your recovery.

[MattTuck]

1370 does seem low for a daily intake.
Be sure you have food with you when you ride, you don't want to "bonk"

To be clear, that is my target from myfitnesspal. I usually am closer to 1500.

I haven't had issues with bonking, and don't usually bring food to eat on rides. If the ride is expected to be 3 hours or longer, I'll bring something.

On some days, I clearly eat more than the 1500. Sometimes as much as 3000+.

I am not trying to do this fast. and while 2 pounds per week is the goal, I'm losing slower than that. So, no worry about it being too aggressive.

I'll say that 5 pounds in six days seems both too fast, and unsustainable. I wish you luck Shane, but I'm playing the long game. Hoping to be at my target in about 6 months. Also, I have much more to lose than a lot of you. I am at 202 this morning, with a goal of sub 175.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

The only compensating I do for exercise calorie-wise is the food and drink I take on during a ride, and my protein shake after a hard ride. Otherwise, it's my regular diet the rest of the day.

[Anarchist]

I should say, I WANT to lose weight.

The 1370 is what I should be eating to lose 2 pounds a week. I usually end up eating closer to 1500 calories.

I feel like if I burn 1500 on a ride, that I should replace some significant amount of that or I'd be at a serious calorie deficit that may affect performance/energy levels in the days following.

On the other hand, I don't want to replace all 1500 if it will help my with the weight loss.

Important point - where are you coming up with the 1500 calorie ride information?

If it is what your garmin (or other device) tells you, assume you may have actually used about half of that. Otherwise you are going to be counting calories like a madman and putting on weight to boot.

[John H.]

This can be a good plan if ride end coincides well with the next meal- you just don't want to have a long break without replenishing.

The only compensating I do for exercise calorie-wise is the food and drink I take on during a ride, and my protein shake after a hard ride. Otherwise, it's my regular diet the rest of the day.

[John H.]

I will make one more point- anyone who is serious about losing weight needs to give up their beer, wine and/or liquor.
They are the most expendable calories of any-

[Tony T]

I haven't had issues with bonking, and don't usually bring food to eat on rides. If the ride is expected to be 3 hours or longer, I'll bring something.

But since your cal intake is low, my suggestion was to carry food with you, doesn't mean you have to eat it — for example, I've been carrying the same honey stinger energy gel with me the last 3 rides, if i don't use it, I just take it with me the next ride. (I bonked once 25 miles from home, and carry extra since then.)

[MattTuck]

But since your cal intake is low, my suggestion was to carry food with you, doesn't mean you have to eat it for example, I've been carrying the same honey stinger energy gel with me the last 3 rides, if i don't use it, I just take it with me the next ride. (I bonked once 25 miles from home, and carry extra since then.)

The dude abides. I can handle that.

[chwupper]

Have you consulted with a dietician or nutritionist on this? If your goal is long-term and sustainable weight loss, talking to a health care professional seems like a better way to get information than guessing with an app or surveying a bunch of random dudes on a forum (like me). ;)

[Tony T]

(More than) a few years ago I was about the same weight as the OP. Back then I hadn't ridden for 12 years. The first year back, riding 8 miles was a struggle (and I was out of breath after those 8 miles). By the end of the year, I was up to a 17 mile ride. Lost a few pounds the first year. By the 2nd year I was doing 17 mile and 30 mile rides. Did 4,000 miles that year, and dropped twice as much as the prior year, and was no longer out of breath after the rides :) Now I do 30 and 50 mile rides (I can do more, but 50 is enough for me)

I dropped the weight by eating fruit, veggies and by riding as many days as possible. The "bike" is what got me healthy.

Good luck with your goals, you can do it, but set long term goals as well as short term ones (i.e. better to track the weight loss month instead of weekly) And remember that the hardest time will be the off-season, so plan for that if you can.

[shovelhd]

Counting calories can take the fun out of life. If you want to get stronger and lose a little bit of weight, then don't run yourself into the ground. Eat properly during rides. Shift your diet towards more protein and less carbs, but you need carbs within reason. Finally, don't focus on your ride days, focus on your rest days. Those are the days to reduce intake.

[tuscanyswe]

1370 calories a day, damn thats a tough meny!

May i ask how a day could look? (from someone who have never counted calories)

[MattTuck]

1370 calories a day, damn thats a tough meny!

May i ask how a day could look? (from someone who have never counted calories)

My usual day is as follows:

Breakfast
Thomas English Muffin
1/2 Tablespoon Peanut Butter
Glass of Water

Lunch
A big handful of baby spinach (I don't really count the calories in this)
1 Tablespoon Newman's Own Lite Caesar
1 Trader Joe's Chicken or Turkey Sausage (they have a bunch of flavors)
Justin's Dark Chocolate Peanut Butter Cups

Dinner
1 Mission Soft Tortilla
6 Ounces 93/7 Lean Ground Turkey (with Fajita seasoning)
1/2 Avocado

Snack
Ghiradelli Dark Chocolate (3 Squares)
1 Tablespoon Peanut Butter


Breakfast and Lunch are pretty much dialed in for me. Which leaves me about 800 for dinner and snacks.

That dinner that I listed is actually pretty high calorie with the soft tortilla. If I have something like grilled chicken with grilled peppers/onions, it's a lot less than the meal mentioned.

[tuscanyswe]

My usual day is as follows:

Breakfast
Thomas English Muffin
1/2 Tablespoon Peanut Butter
Glass of Water

Lunch
A big handful of baby spinach (I don't really count the calories in this)
1 Tablespoon Newman's Own Lite Caesar
1 Trader Joe's Chicken or Turkey Sausage (they have a bunch of flavors)
Justin's Dark Chocolate Peanut Butter Cups

Dinner
1 Mission Soft Tortilla
6 Ounces 93/7 Lean Ground Turkey (with Fajita seasoning)
1/2 Avocado

Snack
Ghiradelli Dark Chocolate (3 Squares)
1 Tablespoon Peanut Butter


Breakfast and Lunch are pretty much dialed in for me. Which leaves me about 800 for dinner and snacks.

That dinner that I listed is actually pretty high calorie with the soft tortilla. If I have something like grilled chicken with grilled peppers/onions, it's a lot less than the meal mentioned.

Id disappear on a similar menu but sounds better than i thought it would tbh.

Best of luck!

[cloudguy]

Holy Cow, that's sounds depressingly meager once you write it down. I would advise riding more so that you can at least eat more.

[Louis]

Id disappear on a similar menu but sounds better than i thought it would

Agreed - I'd probably be down to 8% body fat in no time if I could maintain that.

[SoCalSteve]

Matt,

I am 6' 4" and I am 57 years old. At the end of 2014 I weighed 253 ( yeah, embarrassing ).

I now weigh 217. I never once counted a calorie. What I did do is pretty much give up beef, pork and chicken. I eat fish occasionaly. I ride 150 miles a week ( I can do this now, couldn't when I weighed 253 ). On the days that I ride, I allow myself to eat a little more. Not a lot, just a little more as a treat.

Here is how I did it without counting calories. Mindful eating. Eat slowly, eat until you are just a bit full and stop. If you think you are hungry, wait awhile. The hunger may go away, may not. If it doesn't, eat. Some days I do a 50 mile ride and I'm ravenous at the end, so I eat. Some days I'm not, so I don't. Listen to your body.

The diet you are on doesn't feel like it can be sustained long term. Eat what you like, when you are hungry and don't eat a lot of it.

And yeah, the old adage of if you burn more calories than you take in does work. Fad diets are just that.

Good luck!

Oh yeah, almonds are your friend. Pretty much a perfect food.

[Louis]

BTW, if anyone else was wondering about what is in a typical avocado:

[stephenmarklay]

I know it's very personal, trying to lose weight. I can tell you I have been down the path your on and I lost weight. I also became very over trained and in my estimation less healthy.

On that amount of calories you will lose as much as 50% muscle. So around 12-13 pounds. That is not acceptable for my needs.

I get very obsessive when county calories. I have used my fitness pal as well.

Here is my thoughts and what I do.

Log what you are eating normally that keeps you at 202. After a week average it out and cut out about 500 calories. I eat really healthful food always. Just too much. I sat a lot of nuts all kinds always organic. I fill one cup which is about 800 Cals and that is my allotment now. I stopped using olive oil on my nightly giant salad and the 1/2 avocado. Last in the summer I was having a 1/2 to one beer that I dropped.

I also do what is know as carb back loading (eating carbs at night) and train fasted like you. There is no evidence training fasted burns more fat from your body but I think there are enough endurance reasons and diabetic concerns to do it. I will say on a hard ride like this last weekends gran fondo that I eat about 150 Cals of carbs per hour.

I am also making sure I get protein in the morning and night and lift for strength 3 times per week.

I also do not figure in activity for calories.

[stephenmarklay]

Matt,

I am 6' 4" and I am 57 years old. At the end of 2014 I weighed 253 ( yeah, embarrassing ).

I now weigh 217. I never once counted a calorie. What I did do is pretty much give up beef, pork and chicken. I eat fish occasionaly. I ride 150 miles a week ( I can do this now, couldn't when I weighed 253 ). On the days that I ride, I allow myself to eat a little more. Not a lot, just a little more as a treat.

Here is how I did it without counting calories. Mindful eating. Eat slowly, eat until you are just a bit full and stop. If you think you are hungry, wait awhile. The hunger may go away, may not. If it doesn't, eat. Some days I do a 50 mile ride and I'm ravenous at the end, so I eat. Some days I'm not, so I don't. Listen to your body.

The diet you are on doesn't feel like it can be sustained long term. Eat what you like, when you are hungry and don't eat a lot of it.

And yeah, the old adage of if you burn more calories than you take in does work. Fad diets are just that.

Good luck!

Oh yeah, almonds are your friend. Pretty much a perfect food.

If you are really hungry after a ride I would look at your pre ride meal. Drop the carbs out of it and the hunger goes away.

[jmal]

I know it's very personal, trying to lose weight. I can tell you I have been down the path your on and I lost weight. I also became very over trained and in my estimation less healthy.

On that amount of calories you will lose as much as 50% muscle. So around 12-13 pounds. That is not acceptable for my needs.

I get very obsessive when county calories. I have used my fitness pal as well.

Here is my thoughts and what I do.

Log what you are eating normally that keeps you at 202. After a week average it out and cut out about 500 calories. I eat really healthful food always. Just too much. I sat a lot of nuts all kinds always organic. I fill one cup which is about 800 Cals and that is my allotment now. I stopped using olive oil on my nightly giant salad and the 1/2 avocado. Last in the summer I was having a 1/2 to one beer that I dropped.

I also do what is know as carb back loading (eating carbs at night) and train fasted like you. There is no evidence training fasted burns more fat from your body but I think there are enough endurance reasons and diabetic concerns to do it. I will say on a hard ride like this last weekends gran fondo that I eat about 150 Cals of carbs per hour.

I am also making sure I get protein in the morning and night and lift for strength 3 times per week.

I also do not figure in activity for calories.

I eat a similar diet (sans all the peanut butter and chocolate) as the OP, and I am gaining muscle and losing fat. The body does not cannibalize muscle until it has used its glycogen and fat stores, at least not in any meaningful way. I think much of this has to do with the person's body composition to begin with. If one has 50 lbs of fat, the body can go a long way on a low calorie diet before it begins to burn muscle. If one has 5 lbs, it may be a very different story.

[MattTuck]

Holy Cow, that's sounds depressingly meager once you write it down. I would advise riding more so that you can at least eat more.

This is sort of what the original post was about, though maybe not worded well.

I recognize that 1370 is low... but for an otherwise sedentary desk worker, that is what I'm working with for base metabolism less the amount of calories to lose 2 pounds per week. If I ride, then I'll burn more calories, and thus could eat more.

The other option is to just consider myself 'active' and allow for more calories daily. And then NOT make a special point to eat more on days I ride.

I get the feeling that people think I should just eat more every day, rather than make a special point of eating more on the days that I ride.

I'm fine with that.

Either way, I'm trying to do it in a sustainable way. I'm down 25 pounds from January 1 of 2014 (slight gain in the off season, but still well below where I was this date last year). And just looking to continue chipping away at it. Goal is 2 pounds per week, but I never actually achieve that... which I guess means that I'm eating more than my target :)

[SoCalSteve]

If you are really hungry after a ride I would look at your pre ride meal. Drop the carbs out of it and the hunger goes away.

I always eat the same breakfast on the days I ride.

Sourdough toast with almond butter and jam with a big glass of 2% milk.

And some days I come back ravenous and other days I am not hungry at all. Weird, huh?

[MattTuck]

I always eat the same breakfast on the days I ride.

Sourdough toast with almond butter and jam with a big glass of 2% milk.

And some days I come back ravenous and other days I am not hungry at all. Weird, huh?

That probably has more to do with what you've eaten in the previous days, and possible how hard/long the ride was.

[jlwdm]

I decided I had had enough and was going to lose a lot of weight this month. So far I have lost 20lbs.

I am not a calorie counter - too much effort. I usually have bran cereal with a banana and non- fat milk for breakfast. Fruit and chicken or other protein for lunch. Salad with protein for dinner. Occasional Greek yogurt at night. Snack on vegetables and protein.

Plan was 35 miles per day, but I am only getting 25 in. I think I will skip tonight for the first time.

I planned to lift some but have not done it yet.

Eat what is good for you in moderation and exercise and everything will work out.

Jeff

[SlackMan]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this.

My question is when did you lose that 6 pounds and what happened afterwards? I would be concerned that I follow this five day diet, drop 6 pounds, and gain them back immediately afterwards when I resume eating normally. Thoughts?

Oh and did you keep exercising during the diet? Like commute on your bike?

Yes, I did keep the weight off because I didn't binge after ending the diet. One thing I learned from counting calories for that diet was how crazy low the calorie count is for greens. 200 grams of salad greens has about 30 calories. I can make a salad of 200g of greens, a can of tuna, some olive oil and lemon juice, and still be under 300 calories. It's very filling and makes it easy to keep calories down. Same thing with vegetable soup. We made a soup of chicken broth, a big bag of frozen mixed veggies, and a couple of smaller bags of collard greens. 2cups of this soup is 150 calories!

Yes, I did exercise while on the diet, but nothing very hard. I did not do hard, fast commutes to or from work. I swam, did easy bike rides, and walked. The last morning, day 5, I did feel a little light-headed walking for 30 minutes before eating anything, but that was the only time I felt like calories were too low. I drank tons of unsweetened tea, coffee, and flavored sparkling water. Following the diet at the link I posted, the hardest days were when I had almost nothing for lunch (e.g., the miso broth lunch day), but otherwise I felt pretty satiated.

[stephenmarklay]

I always eat the same breakfast on the days I ride.

Sourdough toast with almond butter and jam with a big glass of 2% milk.

And some days I come back ravenous and other days I am not hungry at all. Weird, huh?

Yeah, likely it has to do with your current stores going into the ride. If you have less stored sugar and you are burning more sugar riding it can happen.

Try this. It twice the almond butter and a couple of hard boiled eggs for a week or so and report back.