Dentist killed lion why closed thread

[alancw3]

so i have to ask why this thread was closed? i do not understand the thinking. you say to get back to bike related subjects but yet you can keep a tom brady thread open for like 1400 posts i just do not get it. something is not consistent with the thinking here. just saying.

[gasman]

Dave explained why in the last post of the thread.

The Brady thread while OT has not resulted in personal attacks by others.

[Kirk007]

From National Parks in Botswana and Namibia last year - these are my trophies. And anyone who wants to go to Kwange NP, I'd co-leading a trip in November. See www.wildlandsnetwork.org for details. Photos only.

[alancw3]

i still do not understand closing the thread. maybe it is me,

[tuxbailey]

I couldn't get my post in before it closed.

They need Kinessa Johnson there to poach the poachers:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3027036/The-Afghanistan-veteran-catching-poachers-Africa-Female-soldier-working-alongside-park-rangers-searching-detaining-wildlife-slayers.html

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/kinessa.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/06/05/2750B1EB00000578-0-image-m-47_1428293525318.jpg

[Climb01742]

jimmy kimmel gets this exactly right, IMO.

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/news/a36755/cecil-the-lion-hunter-jimmy-kimmel/

[bobswire]

Dave explained why in the last post of the thread.

The Brady thread while OT has not resulted in personal attacks by others.

Then ban the person making personal remarks not the subject matter, though eventually there would be no one left to make any more remarks. Such is the human condition and burden that other forms of life have to live or die with.
By and large humans suck and will eventually suck all the life out of our precious planet.

[alancw3]

so i guess this is social media and you have two choices. accept what the perimeters are or move on. anyway i think that the decision to close the original thread was wrong. i do not know what precipitated that but maybe the mods are hunters. i do not know. i cannot accept that anyone on this forum would condon what happened in this situatrion. but perhaps i am wrong. just saying.

[josephr]

As the OP (and a moderator in a former life), I'm good with the post getting closed. I'm watching the internet lynch mob as great entertainment, but I agree with keeping things civil here and sometimes that means a change of subject -- which is essentially what a thread closing is.

[makoti]

Well, let me squeeze this in here, then.
The guy had a heck of a history with illegal hunting & fishing. Toss in a bit of sexual harassment, and you have the perfect human being. No rules apply to him, I guess.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lion-killer-walter-james-palmer-has-bear-related-felony-n400226

[velomonkey]

So, yea, like, um, bringing this back to cycling . . .

Falsifying statements to a government agent is exactly what brought down Lance Armstrong (cause sodomy is awfully good deterrent). Let's recall, Jones and Martha Stewart went to prison not for insider trading and doping, but for lying to a government agent.

So like Lance, this guy should lose his money and be shunned from society for the stain that he is.

[MattTuck]

I hope he didn't ride a Serotta :P

[MadRocketSci]

Such is the human condition and burden that other forms of life have to live or die with.
By and large humans suck and will eventually suck all the life out of our precious planet.

http://www.mpwright.com/in-lovell3.jpg

Original quote: Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, godfather of rocket science

My addition: time to stop sh*tting all over the cradle

make it so, Elon Musk

[makoti]

To bring home Kirk007's point at the end of the other thread, experts think that by killing this one lion, our wonderful dentist may actually end up killing 10 cubs, as well.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lions-death-dentist-walter-james-palmer-may-also-kill-n400466
It's never just the one...

[verticaldoug]

Apologies for spelling as in airport on phone. In the late 90s a group of us went on a helicopter snowboard safari near Manali in India deep into the backcountry. In one of the villages we set down for the night, they showed us a snow leopard pelt killed for raiding their goats. We thought about buying the pelt but the kiwi guide said if we do, the villagers will think there is a rich market for snow leopard pelts and kill more. Many more. We took his advice and left well enough alone.

My opinion is the buyer drives the trade and is responsible. The locals will stop when then buyers leave.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but I'm not sure how I could have been any clearer:

"Harassment, ad hominem attacks, partisan politics . . . "

All are against the forum user agreement. Feel free to go check it.

I checked in this morning, saw a thread that had 78 posts in about 14 hours, centered on a controversial news subject, and that says to a mod, "Better take a look at this."

Feel free to add to this thread, but if it gets into the same issues again this one will be closed, too.

BBD

so i guess this is social media and you have two choices. accept what the perimeters are or move on. anyway i think that the decision to close the original thread was wrong. i do not know what precipitated that but maybe the mods are hunters. i do not know. i cannot accept that anyone on this forum would condon what happened in this situatrion. but perhaps i am wrong. just saying.

[Tony T]

i still do not understand closing the thread. maybe it is me,

I don't see it either. Reason cited was personal attacks and harassment, but it must have been one or two posts, so I must have "missed it" (or they were deleted)

overzealous moderator IMO.

So, lets close this thread?

OBAMACARE!!,
FOX NEWS!!!
DONALD TRUMP!!!!!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . who can't take no for an answer and needs to go for a ride.

BBD

[Llewellyn]

I couldn't see the reason either. Compared to some past efforts on here it seemed quite well-behaved. Maybe the mods should have deleted the offending posts and given the writer a tap on the shoulder.

[makoti]

My opinion is the buyer drives the trade and is responsible. The locals will stop when then buyers leave.

I'm sure that's very accurate. If there's no money in it, I imagine they would only kill for food or safety.

[Rusty Luggs]

. . . who can't take no for an answer and needs to go for a ride.

BBD

now that might be construed as ad hominem.......

[Don49]

Somewhere out there is a "lion kills dentist" incident just waiting to be discovered.

[JAllen]

jimmy kimmel gets this exactly right, IMO.

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/news/a36755/cecil-the-lion-hunter-jimmy-kimmel/

Is it me or does Mr. Kimmel get a little choked up at the end? I haven't followed the story until that video. I can't believe it.

[Kirk007]

I'm sure that's very accurate. If there's no money in it, I imagine they would only kill for food or safety.

First, thanks Dave for essentially reopening and allowing reasonable discussion to continue.

Second, and the money flows the other way with tourism! We will fill a trip - 12-16 people paying over $10,000 each to spend 3 weeks in Africa, including a stay in Hwange NP. Much of this money flows straight to the locals that cook, clean, guide, keep trucks running etc. in the Safari camps. And it is of course sustainable as long as the critters are still there. I for one will miss the opportunity to perhaps see Cecil in all of his dominant male glory; what a beautiful lion he was. And my photo and the photos of others could as easily been enlarged to the size of Cecil's head that the dentist wishes to hang on his wall.

[dpk501]

I hope he didn't ride a Serotta :P

No way, Pinarello is the new dentists' bike.

[makoti]

First, thanks Dave for essentially reopening and allowing reasonable discussion to continue.

Second, and the money flows the other way with tourism! We will fill a trip - 12-16 people paying over $10,000 each to spend 3 weeks in Africa, including a stay in Hwange NP. Much of this money flows straight to the locals that cook, clean, guide, keep trucks running etc. in the Safari camps. And it is of course sustainable as long as the critters are still there. I for one will miss the opportunity to perhaps see Cecil in all of his dominant male glory; what a beautiful lion he was. And my photo and the photos of others could as easily been enlarged to the size of Cecil's head that the dentist wishes to hang on his wall.

I missed something. Do you do tours to Africa? I just did a MTB tour there last November. South Africa & Botswana. Highlight was ABSOLUTELY being about 20 ft from a leopard lounging in a tree. I'll have to post my pic.

[Anarchist]

To bring home Kirk007's point at the end of the other thread, experts think that by killing this one lion, our wonderful dentist may actually end up killing 10 cubs, as well.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lions-death-dentist-walter-james-palmer-may-also-kill-n400466
It's never just the one...

But see, that just doesn't make sense because if you actually listen to these aholes they justify their killing sprees on the basis that they are "respectful" of nature and they are "harvesting" the weaker members of the clan.

They are, in fact, taking the best of the bloodline and couldn't actually care about nature or the survival of the species, so long as they have a head hanging on their wall.

[verticaldoug]

I'm sure that's very accurate. If there's no money in it, I imagine they would only kill for food or safety.

They will continue to kill to protect their herds, safety etc, but they won't actively go out into the mountainside to hunt the leopards down.

The amount of money we'd pay for the pelt would have sent a very clear message it is more profitable for them to kill snow leopards and sell the pelts, then herd goats. It would accelerate the process of wiping out snow leopards.

I'd like to see the dentist extradited for poaching. That'd send a clear message to trophy hunters. (heck, I may even vote for Biden if that happened)

[Kirk007]

I missed something. Do you do tours to Africa? I just did a MTB tour there last November. South Africa & Botswana. Highlight was ABSOLUTELY being about 20 ft from a leopard lounging in a tree. I'll have to post my pic.

My organization focuses on continental scale conservation and has started doing some conservation travel, for education and donor cultivation. Last year we took a group to Botswana and Namibia - good to see some wilder landscapes, although even these are quite modified, and to do some comparison studies between how we manage apex predators in U.S. vs places like Botswana and Namibia that are really pushing eco-tourism and hence protection of big cats etc.

Amazing places though - this year will be a more rustic trip, mostly in Zimbabwe. Also looking at a Yellowstone winter trip and perhaps a Grand Canyon river trip in 2016.

Love to see the leopard photo, we weren't that lucky, but we did have some very up close time with a number of lions.

[makoti]

Hopefully, this works. Always have issues trying to post pics...

[Louis]

Now see, doesn't that make you want to take the biggest elephant gun you can find and blast away at that thing?

[stackie]

That picture makes me smile and just a tad jealous.

The idea of a head on a wall makes me want to cry. And the six marked lion cubs makes me want to cry more.

BTW, apparently this is not Walter Palmer's first time with illegal hunting. He was fined $3000 previously for killing a bear outside of a legal hunting zone. Obviously not much effect on a guy who can pay 50,000 to go on s hunt. I just don't know what to say. The guy is obviously several standard deviations outside the bell curve of normalcy. My gut instinct is to want to punch him in the face, but then I'd be no better than him. Perhaps a huge fine, say on the order of 1,000,000 would drive the message home that the rest of society does not condone his actions. The fine could be donated to lion preservation.

Jon

[farmersam]

.....

Second, and the money flows the other way with tourism! We will fill a trip - 12-16 people paying over $10,000 each to spend 3 weeks in Africa, including a stay in Hwange NP. Much of this money flows straight to the locals that cook, clean, guide, keep trucks running etc. in the Safari camps. And it is of course sustainable as long as the critters are still there. I for one will miss the opportunity to perhaps see Cecil in all of his dominant male glory; what a beautiful lion he was. And my photo and the photos of others could as easily been enlarged to the size of Cecil's head that the dentist wishes to hang on his wall.

That is the key, Kirk007. Bring money to these areas so that all the locals will rise up and fight these poachers and big game hunters.

As the western ice shelf has now destabilized, it's time for a collective effort to right the wrongs we have made.

[makoti]

My gut instinct is to want to punch him in the face...

I'll drive if you punch. Could be there in two days. ;)

[JAllen]

I'll drive if you punch. Could be there in two days. ;)

See now, I think you're missing a great opportunity to break out those touring bikes and then go punch some faces. See the country and teach some lessons! ;)

[alancw3]

for what it is worth and i hope that it can help with the preservation of these big cats:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/821/738/351/demand-justice-for-cecil-the-lion-in-zimbambwe/

unfortunately i am a realist and i do not believe anything will happen here with this situation. oh don't get me wrong, the powers to be will pretend to look at it but it is already a done deal in zimbambwe. money talks. and if a problem develops then more money will talk.

[William]

Not likely going to end soon when money talks in my humble opinion. Anyone catch the article on taxidermy in the latest issue of National Geographic?

Photograph by Robert Clark

Game hunted by oilman Kerry Krottinger surrounds him and his wife, Libby, in their Dallas home. Kerry contends that his spending on trophy hunts helps sway African nations to conserve animals. U.S. policy may also encourage conservation: When Zimbabwe didn稚 provide adequate data on its elephant management, U.S. officials extended a ban on elephant trophies from the nation.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2015/08/taxidermy/clark-photography#/10-dallas-safari-hunters-670.jpg








William

[ergott]

Wow I really don't get the allure of having a stuffed, dead animal in my house.

[Kirk007]

Wiliam, that is truly a sickening image. But,, and it chafes me to no end to give any merit to this argument, there are some smart conservationists, including one of my co-workers who worked in Africa for a decade, that support limited trophy hunting if (1) the tags are very limited and based on conservation/population trends/carry capacity etc.; (2) the tag fees get plowed back into good conservation measures that protect at the species/ecosystem level (the theory that a few individuals taken can support protection of the greater population/ecosystem. This can include improving the local economy to reduce poaching incentives, more rangers combatting poaching, support for farmers who otherwise will hunt down predators or other large crop destroying animals like elephants. But, as said by Leonardo DiCaprio in Blood Diamonds "TIA - this is Africa." Keeping that money funneled into the appropriate pots, preventing gaming of the system and bad apples, like the guide in this case who surely knew just what he was doing in luring Cecil off the National Park, and ensuring that all decisions are science based - those are very significant challenges. Not to mention that there is always someone who thinks, and is usually right, that if you bring enough dollars you can get what you want, rules be damned.

Botswana and Namibia are trying hard - these are the two countries I am most familiar with. Botswana has banned all hunting - even for Bushmen, which has some negative consequences on a hunter/gather culture - the Bushmen population is being moved to reservations (sound familiar?). Zimbabwe and others probably are trying as well.

[CunegoFan]

I have read the various news articles about this and they are perplexing. They say he paid $50K to the guides., which seems way too much for just guiding. I would think the Zimbabwe government would charge large fees for its small number of licenses and then the hunter would pay a guide a few thousand bucks. One possibility is that the guide is responsible for obtaining the permit but news reports say the guides did not have a permit; they also say Palmer did have one. So what was he paying $50K for?

I would not be surprised if he paid them knowing full well they were being paid to lure the lion out of the preserve. In fact I would not be surprised if he saw pictures of the lion and wanted that specific lion.

[Louis]

I would not be surprised if he paid them knowing full well they were being paid to lure the lion out of the preserve. In fact I would not be surprised if he saw pictures of the lion and wanted that specific lion.


If this is the case it will likely come out eventually. It would be interesting to find out what he said about the trip before he even went there.

[soulspinner]

I have read the various news articles about this and they are perplexing. They say he paid $50K to the guides., which seems way too much for just guiding. I would think the Zimbabwe government would charge large fees for its small number of licenses and then the hunter would pay a guide a few thousand bucks. One possibility is that the guide is responsible for obtaining the permit but news reports say the guides did not have a permit; they also say Palmer did have one. So what was he paying $50K for?

I would not be surprised if he paid them knowing full well they were being paid to lure the lion out of the preserve. In fact I would not be surprised if he saw pictures of the lion and wanted that specific lion.

Of course he wanted this Lion, everyone (especially local guides) knew the Lion from afar by the animals dark mane. No mistakes were made, they lured the animal purposely...

[Anarchist]

Of course he wanted this Lion, everyone (especially local guides) knew the Lion from afar by the animals dark mane. No mistakes were made, they lured the animal purposely...

They went to that specific animal's lair and lured that Lion with a dead carcass of another animal they killed specifically to lure THAT Lion.

I also imagine that during his crappy bow shooting, the two "guides" were standing by with rifles, just in case.

This guy is a disgusting excuse for a human being.

[soulspinner]

They went to that specific animal's lair and lured that Lion with a dead carcass of another animal they killed specifically to lure THAT Lion.

I also imagine that during his crappy bow shooting, the two "guides" were standing by with rifles, just in case.

This guy is a disgusting excuse for a human being.

They also chased him for 40 hours (is that possible?) after shooting it with a bow only to shoot, skin and behead a human loving lion...

[CunegoFan]

Of course he wanted this Lion, everyone (especially local guides) knew the Lion from afar by the animals dark mane. No mistakes were made, they lured the animal purposely...

That is not what I am getting at. The question is what Palmer knew. He may have communicated with the guides by email or some other electronic means where the text is obtainable by investigators. Facing prison time in Zimbabwe, the guides may reveal they conspired with Palmer to kill that specific lion. It would seem that if this was done over phone lines or the Internet then it may open Palmer up to charges in the U.S., even if it is just wire fraud.

[soulspinner]

That is not what I am getting at. The question is what Palmer knew. He may have communicated with the guides by email or some other electronic means where the text is obtainable by investigators. Facing prison time in Zimbabwe, the guides may reveal they conspired with Palmer to kill that specific lion. It would seem that if this was done over phone lines or the Internet then it may open Palmer up to charges in the U.S., even if it is just wire fraud.

We can hope.

[Keith A]

This may have been in the other discussion, but this dentist has closed his practice...
http://www.businessinsider.com/dentist-accused-of-killing-a-lion-closed-his-practice-2015-7

[rnhood]

Not likely going to end soon when money talks in my humble opinion. Anyone catch the article on taxidermy in the latest issue of National Geographic?
William

I'd like to see that fellows gun collection. Probably some nice English double rifles.

[rugbysecondrow]

So, I thought this was interesting. I don't agree with it wholeheartedly, but it certainly offers some perspective.

http://nypost.com/2015/07/30/what-lion-zimbabweans-ask-amid-global-cecil-circus/

[Mike Lopez]

New age weapon of destruction. Social media.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/cecil-the-lion-walter-palmer.html?_r=0

I'm sorry for the loss of the lion. That's sad.

Some of the reactions here on the Paceline are embarrassing.

The bad guy is going down in flames so let it go.

Isn't anyone concerned that another human being was recently murdered by a cop?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/university-of-cincinnati-officer-indicted-in-shooting-death-of-motorist.html

[Louis]

Isn't anyone concerned that another human being was recently murdered by a cop?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/university-of-cincinnati-officer-indicted-in-shooting-death-of-motorist.html

Yes, and that guy will eventually be tried in a real court of law for what he did. Not so sure about the dentist.

[Ti Designs]

If cocaine use is a sign that you make too much money, what does this say about the cost of dental work?

[oldpotatoe]

New age weapon of destruction. Social media.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/cecil-the-lion-walter-palmer.html?_r=0

I'm sorry for the loss of the lion. That's sad.

Some of the reactions here on the Paceline are embarrassing.

The bad guy is going down in flames so let it go.

Isn't anyone concerned that another human being was recently murdered by a cop?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/university-of-cincinnati-officer-indicted-in-shooting-death-of-motorist.html

Comments about a lion being murdered isn't a reflection of what others might think of another subject. If ya want to talk about that, or anything else, start another thread.

[Mike Lopez]

Comments about a lion being murdered isn't a reflection of what others might think of another subject. If ya want to talk about that, or anything else, start another thread.

All the slanderous comments and other associated thread drifts and you're gonna single out this one?

Hilarious! Thanks for the laugh and I'm off for a spin.....

[Climb01742]

We're capable of caring about people and lions at the same time.

The dentist hunted the lion because he stacked the deck in his favor and thought he held all the cards. He then slaughtered a creature that meant him, or anyone, no harm. Now, on social media and in the financial fate of his practice, he is the 'hunted' and the cards are held by others. Karma? I don't want any physical harm to come to the dentist (an option he didn't give the lion). But isn't it fair to let his clients know the kind of man their dentist is and let them decide if they go elsewhere? That's transparency and capitalism. As long as no physical harm comes to him, this seems actually like a case where social media did something good.

[oldpotatoe]

All the slanderous comments and other associated thread drifts and you're gonna single out this one?

Hilarious! Thanks for the laugh and I'm off for a spin.....

Sorry, just don't get the connection, a lion being killed and making a leap and assuming somebody doesn't care about a cop murder.

[Seramount]

Isn't anyone concerned that another human being was recently murdered by a cop?

what does this have to do with expressing sentiments regarding the senseless poaching of wildlife?

try to stay on-topic.

[Louis]

There's plenty of bad stuff going on in the world at once. If we had to wait to address them all serially we'd be in bad shape indeed. Just deciding where to start would be a mess.

Plus, even if one were to start a thread about cops killing blacks in this country, as important as that topic might be, I doubt it would stay open for very long.

[shovelhd]

Social media lynch mobs are the solution for everything. It's the Internet version of stoning. The law isn't meeting your political expectations? Stone 'em.

[Louis]

what does this have to do with expressing sentiments regarding the senseless poaching of wildlife?

It's actually not senseless to many hunters (or consumers of rhino horn or buyers of elephant ivory, or whatever). They love it. Yes, it's horrible to us, but not to them - everyone knows that rhino horn will cure all sorts of ills.

[Louis]

Social media lynch mobs are the solution for everything. It's the Internet version of stoning. The law isn't meeting your political expectations? Stone 'em.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe9msExUK8

[Steelman]

Trophy hunting is silly, especially when a population is endangered, however the funds do benefit conservations efforts and a third world economy, when done right. Not saying there is any excuse for what happened here...

On the subject of social media outrage, do think that the reaction would have been much more muted had he "only" shot some random homeless guy.

[makoti]

Comments about a lion being murdered isn't a reflection of what others might think of another subject. If ya want to talk about that, or anything else, start another thread.

Thank you, OP. Saved me a boatload of typing. I can care about more than one thing at a time.

[unterhausen]

Thank you, OP. Saved me a boatload of typing. I can care about more than one thing at a time.
exactly. One of the reasons these internet pile-on events happen is that they bring results. I bet there are a lot more people questioning their desire for a stuffed baby elephant today than there were last week. You can generate all the outrage you want about ISIS, but that's a problem that was caused over a decade ago, and it's not going to be solved by a few thousand facebook posts.

[Climb01742]

And once in a great while a 'mob' is actually an appropriate reaction...as long as no actual violence happens. This dentist sealed his own fate over many years and with many senseless deaths.

[Peter B]

Fuel, meet fire.

http://blog.sfgate.com/dailydish/2015/07/30/ted-nugent-cecil-the-lion-story-is-a-lie/

[Richard]

For Ted:

[Peter B]

For Ted:

(((+1+1)2)2)2...etc

[CunegoFan]

Cool

"The killing of Cecil the lion in Zimbabwe by American dentist and trophy hunter Walter Palmer is being investigated by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to see if it was part of a conspiracy to violate U.S. laws against illegal wildlife trading, a source close to the case said."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/cecil-the-lion-slaying-triggers-probe-by-u-s-agency-1.3174484

[rustychisel]

"As I was preparing this essay I began following news of the horrifically compelling case of Cecil the lion, killed by a 組ame hunter from the US who paid $50,000 for his pleasure and got a lot more than he bargained for. Public opinion has passed sentence on the Minnesotan dentist, so let this observation try to add a little understanding. Cecil was lured from the Hwange National Park to where he could be legally 蘇unted (spotlighted and staged for execution) by professional hunters who cared more for the fee and return business than they cared for the lion or for the illegality of their act."

from 'The Meaning Of Life, and Extinction'.

Please, if you wish, read the whole of my essay at https://rustyalex.wordpress.com/ and if you appreciate it feel free to link or refer.

[makoti]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lions-killer-should-be-extradited-zimbabwe-minister-n401526

Send him.

[soulspinner]

For Ted:

:)

[soulspinner]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/cecil-lions-killer-should-be-extradited-zimbabwe-minister-n401526

send him.

+1

[djg21]

Zimbabwe should offer a $50,000 bounty to the person who delivers Dr. Palmer to its law enforcement authorities.

[verticaldoug]

It is unfortunate that this is in Zim and not somewhere else. This is Zanu PF country and this fish rotted from the head long ago under Mugabe.

Although I deplore what the dentist did, there is no way in hell the administration will extradite him to Zim. And in my opinion, they shouldn't. Instead, maybe Gucci Grace can use her Juju to make him ill since she claims to be a witch.

[josephr]

Zimbabwe should offer a $50,000 bounty to the person who delivers Dr. Palmer to its law enforcement authorities.

where they gonna get that money? Palmer's cash is an anonymous bank account in the Grand Caymans by now and he's boarding a flight to Russia to hang out with Edward Snowden.

[William]

Fromm a BBC article...

On Thursday, the White House said it would review a public petition to extradite the American dentist after more than 100,000 signed it.
But spokesman Josh Earnest said it was up to the US justice department to respond to any extradition order.....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33733722



So are they leaving it up to public opinion before they act? I thought it was a strange response since (as the second part of the quote states) its up to the Justice Dept.







William

[Anarchist]

So, this guy is such an animal lover that as soon as he shoots a Lion (in the dark when he can't tell if he hit it, or wounded it) he wants the guides to find him an elephant to kill within the next 24 hours.

No elephant? OK then, I'm outta' here.

This is a cretin who doesn't care what or how he kills. Only that he kills and gets a "trophy"

What a piece of filth.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/next-on-the-hit-list-for-cecils-killer-was-a-giant-elephant-but-guide-couldnt-find-one-big-enough

[CunegoFan]

So, this guy is such an animal lover that as soon as he shoots a Lion (in the dark when he can't tell if he hit it, or wounded it) he wants the guides to find him an elephant to kill within the next 24 hours.

No elephant? OK then, I'm outta' here.

This is a cretin who doesn't care what or how he kills. Only that he kills and gets a "trophy"

What a piece of filth.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/next-on-the-hit-list-for-cecils-killer-was-a-giant-elephant-but-guide-couldnt-find-one-big-enough

When the guide told him he could not find an elephant large enough, he left the country. Did he have a permit to kill an elephant and left without using it?

[Kirk007]

When the guide told him he could not find an elephant large enough, he left the country. Did he have a permit to kill an elephant and left without using it?

Permits, who needs permits when you have enough $$$ ...

[MadRocketSci]

So, this guy is such an animal lover that as soon as he shoots a Lion (in the dark when he can't tell if he hit it, or wounded it) he wants the guides to find him an elephant to kill within the next 24 hours.

No elephant? OK then, I'm outta' here.

This is a cretin who doesn't care what or how he kills. Only that he kills and gets a "trophy"

What a piece of filth.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/next-on-the-hit-list-for-cecils-killer-was-a-giant-elephant-but-guide-couldnt-find-one-big-enough

"He was a magnificent animal"

So the next thought is...."Let's kill it????"

[yngpunk]

Fromm a BBC article...

So are they leaving it up to public opinion before they act? I thought it was a strange response since (as the second part of the quote states) its up to the Justice Dept.

William

No. Once a petition exceeds a signature threshold (100,000 signatures in 30 days), then the White House will review the petition, regardless of the petition topic.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

Probably just as useful as starting a petition on change.org.

P.S. Be sure to add your name to this one:

Ban The Abusive Sport Of Pig Wrestling, Pig Calling, Pig Catching Nationwide

[CunegoFan]

Permits, who needs permits when you have enough $$$ ...

Maybe getting an elephant hunting license is as easy as going into a bait shop and buying one over the counter. Maybe the guide sells permits on behalf of the government. I don't know. It still sounds a bit shady.

Another thought I had is that is seems mighty convenient they found a dead elephant carcass to use as bait. Are those just lying all over the place? Is that connected to his desire to kill an elephant afterward?

[Kirk007]

...It still sounds a bit shady.


From National Geo last year:

Battle lines are being drawn after the United States Fish and Wildlife Service痴 (FWS) announcement last month to suspend import of elephant trophies from Tanzania and Zimbabwe for the remainder of 2014.

The decision was spurred by the catastrophic poaching of Africa痴 elephants and the fact that in these two countries, according to FWS, 殿dditional killing of elephants?ven if legal, is not sustainable.

The announcement comes on the heels of a U.S. ban on the commercial trade of elephant ivory. That ban includes a new rule, expected to come into force in June, that limits the number of African elephant trophies that can be imported into the U.S. to two per hunter per year.

FWS still allows imports of elephant trophies from other African nations, including Namibia, Botswana, and South Africa鷐lthough Botswana has banned sport hunting, as has Zambia. (See: No Trophy Hunting in Botswana and Zambia?)

In Tanzania, 賷uestionable management practices, a lack of effective law enforcement, and weak governance have resulted in uncontrolled poaching and catastrophic population declines. For example, the Selous輸frica痴 largest protected area欄has lost 66 percent of its elephants in the past five years, according to FWS.

In Zimbabwe, FWS points to the 2013 killing of upwards of 300 elephants by cyanide poisoning鷐 widely publicized slaughter that took place in Hwange National Park. 的nformation on the status of Zimbabwe痴 elephant population, management plans, hunting polices and regulations is limited, FWS notes. The information available raises 都ignificant concerns about the long-term survival of [its] elephants.

[eippo1]

No. Once a petition exceeds a signature threshold (100,000 signatures in 30 days), then the White House will review the petition, regardless of the petition topic.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

Probably just as useful as starting a petition on change.org.

P.S. Be sure to add your name to this one:

Ban The Abusive Sport Of Pig Wrestling, Pig Calling, Pig Catching Nationwide

And note that the petition to extradite him to face charges is 178,916. Somebody'll definitely be looking into it. Also love that the guide mentions that he couldn't see the collar because it was so dark. Hopefully they can use that against them for poaching. As in legal hunting along borders of reserves should only occur when the animals can be identified. Who knows, it could have been some folks from Burning Man having some fun in another desert.

[josephr]

Maybe getting an elephant hunting license is as easy as going into a bait shop and buying one over the counter. Maybe the guide sells permits on behalf of the government. I don't know. It still sounds a bit shady.

Another thought I had is that is seems mighty convenient they found a dead elephant carcass to use as bait. Are those just lying all over the place? Is that connected to his desire to kill an elephant afterward?

its OK as long as its not a famous, popular, well known and beloved worldwide elephant.

[makoti]

No. Once a petition exceeds a signature threshold (100,000 signatures in 30 days), then the White House will review the petition, regardless of the petition topic.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

Probably just as useful as starting a petition on change.org.

P.S. Be sure to add your name to this one:

Ban The Abusive Sport Of Pig Wrestling, Pig Calling, Pig Catching Nationwide

Done. What some people will do to animals for "fun".

[zennmotion]

I agree that this douchebag should face charges and real jail time. However, I can understand the Administration/State Dept's caution in extradition, there is much more at play here than the loss of a magnificent animal. Facing "trial" in Robert Mugabe's court could well be a death sentence, even with (or probably because) the whole world is watching.

[rwsaunders]

...

[djg21]

where they gonna get that money? Palmer's cash is an anonymous bank account in the Grand Caymans by now and he's boarding a flight to Russia to hang out with Edward Snowden.

I'm pretty sure the country of Zimbabwe can afford $50,000, even though it's economy is a mess. I suspect that Prime Minister Robert Mugabe could pay it out if his personal funds without giving it much thought. And there probably is a better chance of Palmer being turned in by someone looking for a bounty than there is that he will be extradited to Zimbabwe from the United States.

I was, however, thinking more in terms of the irony of Palmer being hunted, and hunted for a $50,000 bounty, which is what Palmer paid for the supposed thrill of killing the lion.

[verticaldoug]

I'm pretty sure the country of Zimbabwe can afford $50,000, even though it's economy is a mess. I suspect that Prime Minister Robert Mugabe could pay it out if his personal funds without giving it much thought. And there probably is a better chance of Palmer being turned in by someone looking for a bounty than there is that he will be extradited to Zimbabwe from the United States.

I was, however, thinking more in terms of the irony of Palmer being hunted, and hunted for a $50,000 bounty, which is what Palmer paid for the supposed thrill of killing the lion.

$50,000 is slightly more than 50x per capita GDP in ZIM. To equate this into the US, 50x per capita GDP is $2,500,000. If a trophy hunter in the US decided he wanted a real special alpha wolf from a pack inside Yellowstone and offered that kind of money, someone will be willing to try and lure the wolf out of the park into Montana where it can be shot.

So I guess Mugabe needs to up the bounty to reflect our GDP.

[alancw3]

more than anything else this is so upsetting to me:

"The hunters reportedly lured Cecil out of Hwange National Park, where it is illegal to kill wildlife, at night. Cecil was shot with a bow and arrow. The wounded lion didn't die until 40 hours later, when the hunters tracked him down and shot him with a rifle. They then skinned and beheaded him".

[paulh]

Ted Nugent sees no problem with it. Cat scratch fever.

Rock on!

[malcolm]

Just another example of arrogance and money. If you have enough of both you can convince someone somewhere to do most anything and still feel good about your participation in it. I suspect the dentist feels he is primarily a victim in all this.

I'm all for hunting although I no longer do it myself. Big game hunting I just don't get. It, for most hunters involves very little actual hunting beyond you hunt for a big pile of money give to a guide he finds an animal and you get out of your jeep or worse yet maybe your helicopter and then kill it. You don't eat it and I suspect the meat isn't even used by the locals. All for something to hang on your wall that I suspect most reasonable people would only find creepy. Humans, go figure.

[alancw3]

Just another example of arrogance and money. If you have enough of both you can convince someone somewhere to do most anything and still feel good about your participation in it. I suspect the dentist feels he is primarily a victim in all this.

I'm all for hunting although I no longer do it myself. Big game hunting I just don't get. It, for most hunters involves very little actual hunting beyond you hunt for a big pile of money give to a guide he finds an animal and you get out of your jeep or worse yet maybe your helicopter and then kill it. You don't eat it and I suspect the meat isn't even used by the locals. All for something to hang on your wall that I suspect most reasonable people would only find creepy. Humans, go figure.


+1 so i have to say let's put two hunters in a 10 acre plot and go at it. last man standing wins.

[malcolm]

+1 so i have to say let's put two hunters in a 10 acre plot and go at it. last man standing wins.

I know you say this in jest but if we did it I suspect some asshats would apply.

[Jeff N.]

...paint a target on the dentist's back and give him a 5 minute head start!

[soulspinner]

...paint a target on the dentist's back and give him a 5 minute head start!

:hello:

[makoti]

Ted Nugent sees no problem with it. Cat scratch fever.

Rock on!

According to Teddy, the entire story is a lie. Total moron.

[rugbysecondrow]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/01/d142731c6f6a6ee8ee5139da640d22b3.jpg


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[Llewellyn]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/01/d142731c6f6a6ee8ee5139da640d22b3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[alancw3]

cool empire state building tribute to "racing to extinction":

http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/2015/08/02/Cecil-the-lion-lights-up-New-Yorks-Empire-State-building

[makoti]

cool empire state building tribute to "racing to extinction":

http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/2015/08/02/Cecil-the-lion-lights-up-New-Yorks-Empire-State-building

THAT...is really cool. Can some good come out of this?

[fuzzalow]

Yeah, the display over at the Empire State Building was fun to witness. I'll play roving reporter on this one because I was there as but one more nameless face in the crowd.

NYC is a funny melting pot of complete strangers that can bond, however ephemerally, for an event, share a laugh, witness a happening. And disperse to an anonymity in being scattered among millions a scant 5 minutes after it is all said and done.

Images projected onto the southern facade of The Empire State Building. Here pictures shown of the endangered species of the large sea mammal, a snow leopard and of our fragile earth.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QwhPbcGmuAs/Vb6cccbZnRI/AAAAAAAAA5w/RkuYq498v7g/s512-Ic42/DSC00976.JPGhttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aVKqTj7vYPQ/Vb6cdi6Q9tI/AAAAAAAAA54/0q6XXDlnpSY/s512-Ic42/DSC00977.JPGhttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--54Dw4Zv4Y8/Vb6dAoFT-YI/AAAAAAAAA6Y/9wt3h3AEUkk/s512-Ic42/DSC00998.JPG

[makoti]

Maybe it's something about being in the medical profession. God, I hope not (seeing as how I'm in it)....
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/zimbabwe-names-second-american-lion-killer-n402776

[rugbysecondrow]

The Cecil news has grown old very quickly, and it will be absurd if the news media decides to dredge up stories like this to keep it alive.

The guy is a dick, a seemingly bad man, but the news cycle should have washed this out already.


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[makoti]

Dunno. I kind of think that any outing of poachers is a good thing.