Way OT-baseball trade deadline

[oldpotatoe]

Tulowitzki traded to Toronto...there IS a baseball god. Good riddance, let the Rockies buy some pitching, like 3-4 of them. tulo is a whiner and a fragile one at that. Toronto no less....small market team, wonder where they found the $....but who cares? Now CarGo....not a whiner, actually seems like a good guy but, like Tulo, expensive and fragile.

[bikingshearer]

The real problem is that no decent pitcher wants to play half their games in Denver. The ball just does not move quite as much in mile-high air. The difference is not much, but enough to really screw with the mind and mechanics of the vast majority of pitchers as hitters tee off on pitches that are flatter and have less movement than anywhere else in the majors.

The real solution to the Rockies' pitching woes is to build a new stadium at the bottom of a 4,000 foot hole.

[oldpotatoe]

The real problem is that no decent pitcher wants to play half their games in Denver. The ball just does not move quite as much in mile-high air. The difference is not much, but enough to really screw with the mind and mechanics of the vast majority of pitchers as hitters tee off on pitches that are flatter and have less movement than anywhere else in the majors.

The real solution to the Rockies' pitching woes is to build a new stadium at the bottom of a 4,000 foot hole.

First, with a 5 starter rotation, he only pitches about 16 games at Coors.

All else true but also if they DID have decent pitching, the Rockies would win more games at home. Being familiar with Coors field, as a pitcher or hitter, is a real advantage. A win is a win.

Besides, when did what a player 'want' mean anything? Tulo wanted to go to the Yankees and be the next Jeter(as if).

[makoti]

My Royals have been active. Don't like that they've had to give up so many pitching prospects, but glad to see they are going for it all.

[ntb1001]

Tulowitzki traded to Toronto...there IS a baseball god. Good riddance, let the Rockies buy some pitching, like 3-4 of them. tulo is a whiner and a fragile one at that. Toronto no less....small market team, wonder where they found the $....but who cares? Now CarGo....not a whiner, actually seems like a good guy but, like Tulo, expensive and fragile.
Toronto is hardly a small market.
4th largest city in North America.
Mexico City, New York, Los Angeles are larger. The Jays are owned by a very large company...Rogers Communications.

[oldpotatoe]

Toronto is hardly a small market.
4th largest city in North America.
Mexico City, New York, Los Angeles are larger. The Jays are owned by a very large company...Rogers Communications.

Baseball attendance was 20th out of 30 teams..small market. Payroll better, 11th. Still Tulo is big money and he doesn't play hockey.

[ntb1001]

Attendance is a problem not really related to the size of the market.
Way back in the 80's and early 90's Toronto led the attendace...the '94 baseball strike killed off the Expo's and almost did in the Jays. It's been hard to win back the hockey crowd every since. The city though is definitely not a small market. ..unless 4 million or so is small. The company that owns them also owns 50% of the Maple Leafs and is the largest communications company in the country...very deep pockets.

[bikingshearer]

First, with a 5 starter rotation, he only pitches about 16 games at Coors.

All else true but also if they DID have decent pitching, the Rockies would win more games at home. Being familiar with Coors field, as a pitcher or hitter, is a real advantage. A win is a win.

Besides, when did what a player 'want' mean anything? Tulo wanted to go to the Yankees and be the next Jeter(as if).

Yup, he pitches about 16 games at Coors, and about 16 games on the road, give or take. That's 16 games per pitcher where the the fastball has no movement and the slider doesn't slide as much and the sinker doesn't sink as much . . . . Hey, you've lived it; you know it better than I do.

As for what player "wants" meaning anything - it means a lot in free agency. No big-time free agent pitcher will want to go, and no team will trade that kind of pitcher unless (a) they are in fire sale/rebuild mode, (b) the guy's contract expires at the end of the year or, most likely (c) both. In scenarios (b) and (c), the guy is gone on the first plane out come the end of the season.

In theory, I agree that better pitching is better pitching and should help anywhere, even in Denver. In practice, there are very few pitchers who have the mental strength to keep their heads in the game when, home game after home game, their pitches just don't work the way they do everywhere else. This is not to accuse pitchers as a breed of being head cases - any athlete who is disadvantaged by a circumstance completely outside his or her control has a tough mental row to hoe, and more than one player could not get their heads around playing in that abomination known as Candlestick Park - but pitchers in Coors are a pretty good microcosm of the larger point.

[zmudshark]

The Detroit Tigers are my team.

I has a sad.

[oldpotatoe]

Yup, he pitches about 16 games at Coors, and about 16 games on the road, give or take. That's 16 games per pitcher where the the fastball has no movement and the slider doesn't slide as much and the sinker doesn't sink as much . . . . Hey, you've lived it; you know it better than I do.

As for what player "wants" meaning anything - it means a lot in free agency. No big-time free agent pitcher will want to go, and no team will trade that kind of pitcher unless (a) they are in fire sale/rebuild mode, (b) the guy's contract expires at the end of the year or, most likely (c) both. In scenarios (b) and (c), the guy is gone on the first plane out come the end of the season.

In theory, I agree that better pitching is better pitching and should help anywhere, even in Denver. In practice, there are very few pitchers who have the mental strength to keep their heads in the game when, home game after home game, their pitches just don't work the way they do everywhere else. This is not to accuse pitchers as a breed of being head cases - any athlete who is disadvantaged by a circumstance completely outside his or her control has a tough mental row to hoe, and more than one player could not get their heads around playing in that abomination known as Candlestick Park - but pitchers in Coors are a pretty good microcosm of the larger point.

I hear ya but what has plagued the Rockies for 7-8 YEARS is crappy ptiching. Not good pitchers coming to Coors and not having their 'stuff' but crappy pitching coupled with the brilliant idea of putting Bill Geivett in the club house..the 'real' manager. It caused Tracy to leave, a really decent manager.

I watched a little of the Cubs game last night and you would have thought Tulowitzki had died, not just traded. For a 21 year veteran pitcher I guess. Latroy Hawkins. CarGo is next.

Frustrated Rockies fan here. Tired of hearing all the platitudes from Weiss and them being in the basement regardless of the $. And watching Tulo throw his bat when striking out or arguing balls/strikes with the Ump..glad he's gone. Arenado is the next Tulo, or already is. Meaning a great player, hope he's more durable.

[Ray]

So Hamels goes to Texas, along with Deikman, for Harrison and a bunch of prospects, three of whom sound pretty solid, and in positions the Phillies really need to rebuild (catcher and outfield in particular - and another solid starter never hurts). Sounds like a pretty good deal for the Phils - wasn't much point holding onto him. Deikman looked like the real deal up until last year, but hasn't been worth warm spit or cold piss this year. I wish Cole nothing but the best - that guy has been pure class his whole time in Philly (minor exception in 2009 when his head might have understandably swelled a little, but he got over it fast). And saying adios with a no-no - pretty epic!

We're gonna be in Seattle next weekend and the Rangers are in town - if Cole's pitching, we'll be there to see him throw one more time. I wish him nothing but good luck barring the EXTREMELY unlikely scenario of a Phillies - Rangers World Series during the rest of his run...

Be interesting what else happens, but from a Philadelphia perspective, we're finally starting to move back in the right direction, with pretty good return for both Hamels and Papelbon (good riddance to Pap).

-Ray

[oldpotatoe]

Tulo and he strikes out, what A surprise. I don't know what is more amazing, his feeling that he was indispensable at Colorado or the big boys paying him what they did.

[jmoore]

So Hamels goes to Texas, along with Deikman, for Harrison and a bunch of prospects, three of whom sound pretty solid, and in positions the Phillies really need to rebuild (catcher and outfield in particular - and another solid starter never hurts). Sounds like a pretty good deal for the Phils - wasn't much point holding onto him. Deikman looked like the real deal up until last year, but hasn't been worth warm spit or cold piss this year. I wish Cole nothing but the best - that guy has been pure class his whole time in Philly (minor exception in 2009 when his head might have understandably swelled a little, but he got over it fast). And saying adios with a no-no - pretty epic!

We're gonna be in Seattle next weekend and the Rangers are in town - if Cole's pitching, we'll be there to see him throw one more time. I wish him nothing but good luck barring the EXTREMELY unlikely scenario of a Phillies - Rangers World Series during the rest of his run...

Be interesting what else happens, but from a Philadelphia perspective, we're finally starting to move back in the right direction, with pretty good return for both Hamels and Papelbon (good riddance to Pap).

-Ray

Matt Harrison is hardly a solid starter anymore. He's a very good comeback story with him getting his vertabrae fused and pitching again, but his velocity is way down. He will have to relearn how to pitch again now. His last couple of starts have been hit and miss.

You can have the prospects. If any of them turn out half as good as Hamels, I'll be surprised. I'm happy the Rangers did this deal. It should pay off for them the next three years. There are too many holes in their roster for it to make much difference this year.

[Ray]

Matt Harrison is hardly a solid starter anymore. He's a very good comeback story with him getting his vertabrae fused and pitching again, but his velocity is way down. He will have to relearn how to pitch again now. His last couple of starts have been hit and miss.

You can have the prospects. If any of them turn out half as good as Hamels, I'll be surprised. I'm happy the Rangers did this deal. It should pay off for them the next three years. There are too many holes in their roster for it to make much difference this year.

Yeah, I didn't realize what Harrison had been through. I remember seeing a Rangers / Phils game in 2011 with Oswalt vs Harrison. I'd never heard of Harrison but he just shut the Phillies down and the Rangers won despite a good start from Oswalt. This was the year the Phillies won 102 games before the Cardinals got crazy hot and squeaked by both the Phils and Rangers in the post season. You probably remember that World Series pretty well! :cool:

Prospects are always a crap-shoot. When the Phils were building the great team they're tearing down now they made a few trades like this one, from the other side. A lot of the prospects they shipped out didn't end up doing much, but a couple of them have been pretty good. But an ace pitcher and a great closer are pretty much wasted here for the next couple of years, so this was probably a good move for both sides. You're getting an incredible class act in Hamels. And he's still in his prime, unlike the rest of the nucleus of that great team, who are just old and in the way now, with unmovable contracts...

-Ray

[FlashUNC]

Tulo and he strikes out, what I surprise. I don't know what is more amazing, his feeling that he was indispensable at Colorado or the big boys paying him what they did.

That Tulowitzki, he is awful.

After that first strikeout: two doubles, a homer and 3 RBI. Just the worst.

Fragile, yes, but he's been the best shortstop in baseball the last half dozen years. Good glove and better bat. Biggest knock was his health.

[Louis]

I hear the Mets might be willing to trade their shortstop for a centerfielder. Or maybe not.

[makoti]

And Price goes to the Blue Jays.

[Louis]

The Cardinals do what may be a horrible deal for a 1st baseman.

They sure as heck needed one, but not Moss (from Cleveland for Rob Kaminsky, a promising pitcher in A ball).

http://gatewayredbirds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=57007

[oldpotatoe]

That Tulowitzki, he is awful.

After that first strikeout: two doubles, a homer and 3 RBI. Just the worst.

Fragile, yes, but he's been the best shortstop in baseball the last half dozen years. Good glove and better bat. Biggest knock was his health.

Maybe after he gets over sulking about being traded, he'll help Toronto, good for them but his 'personality' didn't help Colorado.

[FlashUNC]

Maybe after he gets over sulking about being traded, he'll help Toronto, good for them but his 'personality' didn't help Colorado.

The fact Colorado hasn't had a decent pitcher in a decade has hurt Colorado.

Trading the only good player they had won't fix anything.

[oldpotatoe]

The fact Colorado hasn't had a decent pitcher in a decade has hurt Colorado.

Trading the only good player they had won't fix anything.

Except buy some pitching. Trade involved 3 pitchers coming. Cargo and Tulo
We're like 40% of the payroll. 'Best' player hasn't helped since 2007, plus.. Well lots of things.

[RonW87]

For once, Toronto comes out ahead at the trade deadline. Just a killer offensive gauntlet for opposing pitchers to run. I assume Tulo eventually gets slotted in ahead of Encarnacion. So 2 through 6 is Donaldson, Bautista, Tulo, Encarnacion and Martin. That's 81 home runs among them! Also, Tulo's better defence over Reyes makes the pitchers better. Now with Price, starting pitching is vastly improved. Finally, with Sanchez, Osuna and Schultz all coming on lately, the bullpen is looking much more solid. Should be a fun pennant race in the 6!